Little Cup's New and "Creative" Moveset Thread - Mark 1

Discussion in 'Little Cup' started by Fuzznip, Sep 13, 2009.

  1. Ice-eyes

    Ice-eyes Simper Fi

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    Most Scarfers get OHKOd by Sub Gastly anyway - it should really run Hypnosis if it wants to beat Munchlax 84% of the time (assuming it Subs on the switch). Burning Lax does nothing - if you want to sack yourself to kill it, use Explosion. Duskull is better at crippling Ghost counters with WoW.

    The difference is that Ghost-counters like Munchlax and Stunky can actually trap Ghosts with Pursuit, which Grimer can't do - if I think you're going to SS my Gastly I'll just go to my Bronzor or Gligar. Of course, this ignores the fact that Duskull easily burns you. The other Ghost counters have much better utility as well - unSTABbed Shadow Sneak from Grimer isn't going to dent many sweepers, while Stunky's Sucker Punch will help you check threats. Meanwhile, Lax is an absurdly good counter to many specially-based pokes and it hits much harder than both to compensate for its lack of Explosion.

    This looks pretty good, actually - I'd quite like to try it out at some point. How much does it take from Snover's Ice Shard? The only real problem is Mankey switching in - it completely screws up your momentum, as it can just U-Turn. It can keep doing that all game, as well, because it's faster and Shroomish doesn't have the moves to hurt it.
  2. Pika25

    Pika25

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    Can't Pip carry grassknot? Then again if you had GK over Icy Wind you can't do much to Dratini (HP fire nails the grass types anyway), and even Chinchou can take a GK: max Modest Pip's GK does 8 - 10 / 27 (29.6% - 37%) to max/max Calm Chinchou; the same GK does 10 - 14 / 22 (45.5% - 63.6%) against a min/min Rash (not a guaranteed 2HKO even after SR).
  3. calze6

    calze6

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    I'm quite sure shroomish will never be OHKOed by snover.
  4. Black Buddha

    Black Buddha

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    While I don't really want to make a great big fuss out of this, let me just pull up some stats

    March's top 10 in LC, and what moves they normally pack that can hit gastly:
    1 Gligar - Aqua Tail, Stone Edge, rarer Night Slash and Aerial Ace
    2 Croagunk - Ice Punch , Sucker Punch although this is a bit iffy
    3 Gastly - Shadow Ball , TBolt , Energy Ball if you run it also why not just kill it ?__?
    4 Houndour - Dark move + fire move, not gonna name all since many combinations seen
    5 Munchlax - Ice Punch , Fire Punch, Pursuit
    6 Chinchou - Surf, Hydro Pump, TBolt, Ice Beam
    7 Bronzor- Probably the only one it actually has use against
    8 Dratini- Outrage, Waterfall
    9 Wynaut - lol, although watch out if he encores your torment but why would you do that just OHKO that shit
    10 Machop - Payback, Ice Punch, Bullet Punch

    SO yea, apart from like gunk most LC mons DO have more than one way of hitting Gastly. You're reasons also stand though about just smacking them when you have the chance so no hard feelings :)
  5. Heysup

    Heysup CANadian not a CANTnadian
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    Scarfers, like Machop, Gligar, Chinchou, Houndour, and Bagon, will still be beaten by Torment. I'm going to stand by it being "ok" but not worth running when you can just kill most of the mons from behind a Substitute anyway.
  6. Banryu

    Banryu

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    Points well taken about Torment Gastly, and I think you lot are right, it's probably smarter to just kill stuff. x___X I think Iceyes brought up the best point with Hypnosis being the best debilitating move Gastly runs, but I really, REALLY hate Hypnosis' accuracy. Dx

    I suppose at best it's a worthy of a 'More Options' mention.
  7. Universal Berry

    Universal Berry

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    Because Grass Knot affects hevy foes, and everything in LC is little and thus really really light. Thats the reason why GK and LK arent used AT ALL.

    EDIT: The reason because they aren't used often.
  8. Banryu

    Banryu

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    Okay, here's one... full credit goes to burnpsy as far as I know, unless he got it from someone else first.

    SunnyLax @ Leftovers
    Ability: Thick Fat
    EVs: 236 HP, 36 Def, 236 SpD
    Sassy nature
    - Return
    - Fire Punch
    - Earthquake
    - Sunny Day

    WTF is this crap? No Pursuit? How's he gonna trap Gastly? o___0
    Wellllll see the funny thing is... Pursuit is pretty much a universal Lax move, amirite? What Gastly in his right mind is gonna want to switch out of Lax, only to be nailed by a boosted Pursuit, right? Gastly doesn't switch out of Munchlax anyway, and Sun-boosted Fire Punch KOs Gastly all the same. Good supplement for Sun teams.

    One more, and I actually came up with this one myself... whoopdedoo.

    Horsea @ Life Orb / Damp Rock
    Swift Swim / Sniper
    Timid Nature
    EVs: 36 Def / 200 SpA / 76 SpD / 196 Spe
    - Agility / Rain Dance
    - Hydro Pump / Surf
    - Dragon Pulse
    - Substitute

    I'm starting to realize that throwing Substitute onto Agility sweepers is a great way of letting them beat priority users... Sub-RP Aron is an example of that that I've been using a lot lately. Sub-Agility (or Swift Swim, either way) Horsea follows that concept, which is to set up Sub on your counter's switch-in and take advantage of it to set up for the sweep or to take out the enemy counter.

    In this case, the idea is that, since Horsea only gets two moves, it has to get the most coverage out of them... well, there's no Normal-type special move for Horsea to use for the classic Water-Normal hits-all coverage, but Horsea gets something even better: Dragon Pulse. Mainly, this is just based off of my bias towards anything Dragon-related, but, meh... it could work.
  9. eric the espeon

    eric the espeon maybe I just misunderstood
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    If you use Sunny Day then Gastly is going to get the message that Munchlax probably does not have pursuit, no? Not the worst Sunny Day user I guess, but not the awesome ghost trapper any more.
  10. Banryu

    Banryu

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    Okay fine, so those both aren't that good...
    How about this?

    Trick Room Gastly
    Hold: Focus Sash
    Nature: Jolly / Adamant
    EVs: 236 Atk / 196 Spe / 76 SDef
    - Trick Room
    - Explosion
    - Hypnosis
    - Sucker Punch / Destiny Bond
    It's the set I've been running as a lead for my TR team. Mainly, I just set up and Explode, then bring in a sweeper... but it also has Hypnosis in case it wants to shut down something else before using TR (I never use it though, because I hate its accuracy), and Sucker Punch or DBond is for Ghost-types who are immune to Explosion.

    I'm actually not so sure about the EVs on this one... I have it EV'd fast so that it can get TR up quickly, but that makes it slow in TR, so... *shrug* I guess it makes Sucker Punch more useful.
  11. Yehom

    Yehom

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    Actually, I've used a almost similar Munchlax on my Sunny Day team, only my Munchlax carried Body Slam instead of Return. The main purpose of this Munchlax was to 'fake' a Pursuit and then set up Sunny Day. By then Gastly has only 2 options: kill Munchlax and create a free switch-in for me, or switch and let the incoming Pokemon take a Sun boosted Fire Punch
  12. Heysup

    Heysup CANadian not a CANTnadian
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    I use this:

    Gastly (M) @ Focus Sash
    Ability: Levitate
    EVs: 236 Atk/76 Def/196 SAtk
    Quiet nature (+SAtk, -Spd)
    - Sludge Bomb
    - Explosion
    - Trick Room
    - Hypnosis
    ---

    This makes a great TR set up mon because you can hypnosis, set up, then Explode effectively taking out 2 Pokemon and having 3 turns of TR left to sweep.
  13. Banryu

    Banryu

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    Yeah... I think yours is better. I still think Adamant / Brave and Sucker Punch over Sludge Bomb might be good, though.
  14. Dracoyoshi8

    Dracoyoshi8 weapon of mass seduction
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    Hey, I got some creative movesets to share with you guys! There's quite a few, so enjoy!

    [​IMG]

    Elekid @ Focus Sash
    Ability: Static
    EVs: 252 Atk/236 Spd
    Jolly nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
    - Cross Chop
    - Ice Punch
    - Quick Attack
    - ThunderPunch

    Anti-Lead Elekid. This thing works great. From my experience, the only three leads it can't take down are Snover, Hippopotas and Phanpy. It has trouble against Bronzor if it is running Earthquake, though. 20 Speed allows Elekid's Quick Attack to beat all the Fake Out leads. Cross Chop dents Onix and Snover and Ice Punch for Gligar and other Ground-types. ThunderPunch is mostly for STAB, but it works great against Kabuto.

    [​IMG]

    Chikorita @ Oran Berry / Light Clay
    Ability: Overgrow
    EVs: 118 HP/236 Def/156 SDef
    Calm nature (+SDef, -Atk)
    - Light Screen
    - Reflect
    - Leaf Storm
    - Role Play

    Chikorita is a cool Screener, mostly because it isn't trapped by Wynaut and it learns Leaf Storm. Even with only 11 SpA, Leaf Storm puts a dent in most Pokemon. It does around 40% to Gastly and Wynaut from my battles. The real magic of the set is Role Play though. Role Play's primary use is to copy Wynaut's Shadow Tag and escape from Wynaut. It also has other nifty uses, like stealing Munchlax's Thick Fat or Houndour's Flash Fire if you can catch it on the switch. Probably my favorite Screener in the current metagame.

    [​IMG]

    Totodile @ Oran Berry
    Ability: Torrent
    EVs: 236 Atk/4 Def/252 Spd
    Jolly nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
    - Swords Dance
    - Return
    - Aqua Jet
    - Substitute

    Think of a slower SubVanha without Dark-STAB but with Swords Dance, and you got SubDile. SubDile's main advantage over the standard Totodile is being able to set up against Duskull. It can Sub against WoW and Swords Dance against ShadowSneak, putting the opponent in a mind game of what move to use. I have easily gotten up two Swords Dances with this set. +4 Aqua Jet hurts most Pokemon, and Return hits anything slower hard. It has issues against Croagunk and Mantyke if it isn't behind a Substitute though. My current favorite Pokemon in the metagame to use.

    Shame I have nothing creative for Cyndaquil, I would have had a full set!
  15. iss

    iss happily ever after
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    I like the anti-lead elekid, can't wait to try it out.

    Intresting Chikorita set, never thought of any possible use of Role play.

    I'm iffy on the subdile set, can it really sweep with that little speed? There are some decent water resists in LC that outspeed it (see: Chinchou) and even at +2 aqua jet and return aren't going to be koing much.

    Of course, we always see good gimmicks from draco.
  16. StealthX

    StealthX

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    I think you're right. Here are some damage calulators, though it is probably diffent because of the lvl 5 VS lvl 100 damage difference.

    Rash 180 Attack EVs Snover's Ice Shard VS 36/36 Jolly Shroomish = 47.4% max

    Adamant 184 Attack EVs LO Snover's Ice Shard VS 36/36 Jolly Shroomish = 57.8% - 68.9%

    However, on the other hand, the damage Shroomish does to Snover is rather pathetic:

    196 Attack EVs CS Shroomish's Return VS 196/0 Adamant Snover = 28.7% - 33.9%
  17. Ramblin Wreck

    Ramblin Wreck

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    It is very different because of the levels (FYI, you can set the levels to what you want in the Smogon calculator).

    Rash Snover Ice Shard: 52.2%-60.9% with Oran Berry, 60.9%-78.3% with Life Orb.
  18. StealthX

    StealthX

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    I didn't know that. Thanks.


    EDIT: I've been considering a sunny day support Chikorita. What do you think? (I haven't figured out the EVs yet, so I'll use Dracoyosh8's Spread for now)


    [​IMG]

    Chikorita @ Heat Rock / Oran Berry
    Ability: Overgrow
    EVs: 118 HP/236 Def/156 SDef
    Calm nature (+SDef, -Atk)
    - Sunny Day
    - Synthesis
    - Leaf Storm
    - Roll Play/ Hidden Power [FIRE]

    It actually isn't very outclassed when you consider that the only grass types on a sunny day team - Oddish and Bellsprout, are sweepers not supporters. It has Synthesis to heal itself, and Leaf Storm for STAB. Roll Play (yeah, sorry draco, I copied a lot of your set.) is useful to grab other pokemon's abilitys, but HP gives you a second attack, one which is also boosted by the Sun.
  19. Towelie

    Towelie

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    Elekid sometimes runs low kick to hit munchlax without relying on cross chops accuracy.
  20. Sy123

    Sy123

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    How about:

    Onix@ Oran Berry
    I cant do LC EVs, but I would have it, evd in HP/Def/Sp.Def
    Careful
    ~Stealth Rock
    ~Roar
    ~Explosion
    ~Stone Edge/Earthquake

    Lead Onix
  21. Banryu

    Banryu

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    It'd be better to give it Focus Sash and EV it in Attack and Speed with some HP. Onix already has a huge Defense stat as far as LC Pokes go, even without any EVs invested... I also thing that Stone Edge AND Earthquake without Roar would be better, so you can beat Steel-types and/or Ghost-types that you wouldn't want to explode on.
  22. Pika25

    Pika25

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    Levitate Bronzor being the notable exception.

    Level 5 Onix with EV's 76 HP 236 attack 196 speed adamant Rock Head

    Level 5 Bronzor with EV's 220 HP 4 attack 220 defense 4 Sp At relaxed Levitate

    Stone Edge does 4 - 6 (16% - 24%) (9 - 12 (36% - 48%) on a critical), Explosion does 14 - 17 (56% - 68%).

    If this were Heatproof Bronzor an Earthquake would have done 38 - 48 (152% - 192%) (19 - 24 (76% - 96%) if it held Shuca Berry).
  23. Banryu

    Banryu

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    Oh well yeah, there you go. :0 But Onix can't do squat to Bronzor in any given scenario anyway. :\
  24. Ice-eyes

    Ice-eyes Simper Fi

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    Lead Onix is like a Bronzor with worse typing and Explosion. Problem is, why opt for Onix when it means you lose to stuff like Snover and Phanpy that Bronzor beats?
  25. Banryu

    Banryu

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    Okay, well I saw someone running a lead Aron set that was kind of interesting with Stealth Rock and Metal Burst, although I just wonder if maybe Shieldon does that better. I don't know what the other two moves were, but I'll try to recreate it on my own.

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