Lucario

Ghost + Fighting = Perfect coverage.

Dark + Fighting = Resisted by Heracross and Toxicroak.

Both Shadow Ball and Dark Pulse have the same damage, the only differences are the effects and a single type they are resisted by.(Normal and Fighting respectively)

I would go for Shadow Ball as you wouldn't want to increase a Cobaluon's Attack as he switches in on you or heck, even another Lucario.

Also, without SB or DP, killing ghosts might be troublesome.
For example, Chandelure(they'll end up in the same tier at this rate, won't they?) takes 49.43% - 58.24% from a LO Dragon pulse, but takes 87.36% - 103.45% from that LO Shadow Ball.
 

voodoo pimp

marco pimp
is a Forum Moderator Alumnus
That's not how coverage works. Shadow Ball is superior to Dark Pulse. Yes, normal types are immune to Shadow Ball, but aside from Girafarig (which you're never going to see) and Meloetta (which isn't legal yet), there is no normal type that you wouldn't rather use Aura Sphere on anyway. Shadow Ball hits Heracross and Toxicroak, while Dark Pulse doesn't hit anything important, making the former a superior option.
 
That's not how coverage works. Shadow Ball is superior to Dark Pulse. Yes, normal types are immune to Shadow Ball, but aside from Girafarig (which you're never going to see) and Meloetta (which isn't legal yet), there is no normal type that you wouldn't rather use Aura Sphere on anyway. Shadow Ball hits Heracross and Toxicroak, while Dark Pulse doesn't hit anything important, making the former a superior option.
Then again, Dark Pulse comes with a cute side effect. Sure, there's 2 pokes that resist Dark+Fighting, but I'd take Dark Pulse any day over Shadow Ball.
 
20% flinch I find to be more useful on Lucario than a chance to drop Sp.Def. YMMV of course.

That's not how coverage works. Shadow Ball is superior to Dark Pulse. Yes, normal types are immune to Shadow Ball, but aside from Girafarig (which you're never going to see) and Meloetta (which isn't legal yet), there is no normal type that you wouldn't rather use Aura Sphere on anyway.
Except that Shadow Ball requires perfect prediction (more or less impossible) whereas with Dark Pulse you'll still do some damage.

Its a matter of preference.
 
I'm wondering something. Why is Swords Dance Lucario practically unheard of? Its biggest counter, Gliscor, runs practically no Speed anymore, so you can wreck it with a boosted Ice Punch - and that's probably the biggest reason to use SD Lucario over SD Terakion, who really can't break Gliscor.
 

voodoo pimp

marco pimp
is a Forum Moderator Alumnus
Except that Shadow Ball requires perfect prediction (more or less impossible) whereas with Dark Pulse you'll still do some damage.

Its a matter of preference.
An occasional non-STAB neutral hit? I'd rather be able to hit Toxicroak and do better against Rain Stall.
 
I'm wondering something. Why is Swords Dance Lucario practically unheard of? Its biggest counter, Gliscor, runs practically no Speed anymore, so you can wreck it with a boosted Ice Punch - and that's probably the biggest reason to use SD Lucario over SD Terakion, who really can't break Gliscor.
you mean use lucario over terakion who can OHKO with SD Stone Edge dealing massive damage over teh course of the game and has bigger speed and unlike lucario can survive super effective hit with LO from timid nature from 120 base powered move not to mention having 18 more attack AND speed AND 20 higher on ALL defensive stats ?

Terakion is only unable to break through gorugo. Even skarm dont get chance then Gliscor wouldnt either

Clear why i use terakion
 
terakion cant ohko gliscor with stone edge(luca can with ice punch), got worst typing(dont even try to compare fighting\steel to fighting\rock), lack extremespeed(or bullet punch) and other important moves(ice punch, etc). terakion is a great sweeper on his own right but by no means he completely outclass lucario. the fact gliscor doesnt run speed evs and put everything on the defenses instead means he is no longer a lucario counter but becomes a terakion one in the process.


to be rather serious the fifth gen metagame sucks for lucario. he is still a great SD sweeper but he won little, got more competition and less chances to setup.
 
Are you sure ? Well at least terra can 2HKO
Luke need no calcs for prove then Terra calcs

LO jolly SD Edge to bold full gliscor
72.9% - 86.4%

Gliscor EQ(jolly)
69.8% - 82.9%

Yeah not something i can say "cant touch/break"
Also despite better typing, those sexy perfect pokemon stats and 108 speed make me use terra. And in SS terra has insane bulk specially.
Also NTM CB Terakion 2HKO Glsicor already(not factoring Posion heal though)

Gliscor is not reliable counter to terakion. Only Goruugu and quagsire is.
But yeah Luke isnt outclassed despite terakion is better sweeper.

But i already think about that myself but that bulk simply is not good in this meta. Without set up, it cant OHKO dory like everybody else with priority. After set up, roob is everywhere. Thats my biggest reason for stop using luke tbh
 

Cooky

Banned deucer.
I think Nasty Plot Lucario is much better than SD in this metagame, primarily thanks to Fighting priority which lets it beat hard checks to the traditional SD set such as Scarftran, Scarftar, Terakion and Doryuuzu. It also fares much better against bulky counters such as Impish Gyarados if lacking Stone Edge, Gliscor, Hippowdon, Swampert and Celebi, Cresselia, Dusclops (even with Crunch..) Burungeru, and Desukan if lacking Crunch. It also doesn't take Iron Barbs / Rugged Helmet damage from Nattorei and is less likely to be revenged by Scarfrachi's Fire Punch or Specs Latios's Surf due to the lack of Defense drops from Close Combat.

Also at the guy who thinks Shadow Ball is better than Dark Pulse, Aura Sphere OHKOs Toxicroak with SR anyway, and a +2 LO Shadow Ball won't OHKO Heracross...
 
Dont forget luke's 70 defenses though. And its priority is also Vacuum Wave which ahs dissapointing power at times.

If you say after set up it beat dory, yes it is but setting up itself with luke is hard(theres always wobb though). and btw +2 LO Timid Luke Wave dont OHKO tera

Well its just me but NP Luke is some kind of a meh.
 

Cooky

Banned deucer.
A +2 LO Vacuumn wave OHKOs Terakion outside of Sandstorm comfortably, and has over a 50% chance with SR and a layer of Spikes in it, although that's pretty situational.

Also there are a large number of pokemon Luke can set up on given its huge number of resistances and the relative popularity of Choice Items and offensively weak walls such as Burungeru (Luke doesn't mind Burn so much) or Nattorei.
 

ginganinja

It's all coming back to me now
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this gen NP Lucario is the way to go. Breaking part Jellicent and Ferrothorn is very useful and Fighting type priority is always nice this gen
 
JNSD if you don't like Lucario then get the fuck out of the thread. The point is to promote and discuss fucking Lucario here, not to fucking try to preach whether or not Terakion is better because no gives a shit about what you prefer.
 
what he said.



tested lucario this night while using my blazblue themed team(GO BANG) and i must say: i am stupid. i though he would actually have some problems but its so godamn easy to get that SD in that all you gotta do with the rest of your team is kill anything he cant outspeed and is not ohkoed by ES to make sure you are gonna sweep. terakion aint got nothing on lucario.


way too many choice users spamming draco meteors and outrages these days, its not even fun.
 
Call me crazy but I've been using Focus Blast instead of Aura Sphere. The accuracy is just ugh, but after that NP it hits insanely hard. If you can afford a hit (with sub or something), I'd recommend Focus Blast. Otherwise stick to Aura Sphere.
 
Call me crazy but I've been using Focus Blast instead of Aura Sphere. The accuracy is just ugh, but after that NP it hits insanely hard. If you can afford a hit (with sub or something), I'd recommend Focus Blast. Otherwise stick to Aura Sphere.
Worth keeping in mind that taking accuracy into account, Focus Blast does less damage than Aura Sphere.

So the only reason to use Focus Blast is if the additional damage when you hit helps considerably more than you lose from the zero damage from a miss, which can't be too frequent. Although A Sub would help.
 
I have a question, been running NP LO Lucario and I'm wondering what other items people use as I often setup on WoW or weak attacks meaning I sometimes only get a 2-4 turn sweep. Sure its usually enough to cripple the opponent, but would I maybe be better off with something else?

I was thinking Fist Plate maybe as well generally you are only using the coverage move against things it hits super effective.
 

Cooky

Banned deucer.
I have a question, been running NP LO Lucario and I'm wondering what other items people use as I often setup on WoW or weak attacks meaning I sometimes only get a 2-4 turn sweep. Sure its usually enough to cripple the opponent, but would I maybe be better off with something else?

I was thinking Fist Plate maybe as well generally you are only using the coverage move against things it hits super effective.
100% Life Orb. If you're attacking for 2-4 turns at +2 thats good enough.

wunhundereddpercenta
 
Ironically what's holding lucario from sweeping like he did last gen is the speed creep. A lot of offensive pokemon are faster and those that aren't frequently carry means to boost their speed. That, along with the omnipresence of Gliscor, means that both the SD and NP sets run into some problems against those hard counters.

I think "double dance" would be a good set for lucario as well.

Lucario @ Life Orb
252 Atk(SpAtk)/252 Spe/4 HP
Adamant/Modest / whatever ability works

Agility
Swords Dance/Nasty Plot
Aura Sphere/Close Combat
Crunch/Shadow Ball

It could work alright, he doesn't really need the priority if you're running agility, and most things he would hit with his own boosted priority aren't 1hko'ed by it (only exception being Breloom). He can do some early-game weakening with this, or late-game cleaning, since sometimes Vacuum Wave's power is a bit lacking, and not everybody carries mach punch on their team.
 

Cooky

Banned deucer.
Gliscor is NOT a true counter any more unless he runs 216 Spe and a +ve nature, since 5th gen requires more defense EVs of him so he can no longer outspeed Lucario, so all SD variants can OHKO with Ice Punch with all NP variants achieving an OHKO with HP ice or dealing 81.6% - 96% with a +2 LO Dark Pulse.

Double Dance could work I guess but the thing is that if you open with Agility (you won't find time to boost more than once in this metagame) you're fairly easily countered due to the lack of power, even by offensive teams, and if you open with SD or NP the lack of priority means you can be revenged so so easily.

Maybe you could use Double D alongside Terakion given that they can both do it, in a similar vein as Salamence being Rayquaza's Dragon Dance partner, one pokemon weakens up the counter(s) so the other can sweep later. Dunno if that would work or not.
 
Actually I think it works more of a 'prediction' kind of thing, if you're quite sure your opponent's solid fighting-type switch-in is Reuniclus or Jellicent, SD up on the switch. If it's something that can normally survive Extremespeed and outspeed a Lucario (e.g. Excadrill or Terakion predicting a Swords Dance) then Agility and KO it. Here's where Close Combat>Aura Sphere due to power issues and the fact that under sandstorm Terakion has higher SDef and Excadrill already has marginally higher SDef than Def anyway.

Of course, this isn't taking into account 216 Spe Gliscor, Garchomp, Virizion, etc. You'd need Ice Punch and that means the ghost-luring and killing part is no more. Ice Punch also doesn't OHKO any of them if unboosted, if I recall correctly.
 
Okay so NP seems to be the way to go.
But cant Luke use some kind of CB set ?
I mean he has movepool for CB with ES and CC maybe like
252 Atk/252 Spe/filler
Jolly/Adamant
ES
CC
Crunch
Ice Punch
 

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