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Discussion in 'BW OU' started by Ditto, Sep 19, 2010.

  1. Ditto

    Ditto /me huggles
    is a Tournament Director Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Server Moderator Alumnus

    Jun 11, 2007
    #448 - Lucario

    Immunity: [​IMG]
    x0.25: [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]
    x0.50: [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]
    x1.00: [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]
    x2.00: [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]

    While Lucario has 3 very common attacking types as a weakness, it also has a plethora of resistances to use. Along with resistances to a fair number of different types, Lucario also boasts immunity to Toxic Spikes, which can greatly shorten of other Set Up Sweepers like it. Lucario also has a strong offensive STAB in its Fighting-type that can allow it to tear through many Pokemon.

    Base Stat Total: 525
    Base Stats: | 70 | 110 | 70 | 115 | 70 | 90 |

    While Lucario's defenses are nothing to write home about, coupled with its resistances Lucario can often find a way to switch in and use its marvelous offensive stats. Lucario's speed is not bad, but it is also not too great. While Lucario is able to outspeed a fair number of Pokemon, its lackluster defenses can often hurt it when opponent's switch in faster Pokemon. Luckily for Lucario, its offensive stats along with a couple well placed priority moves give it a fighting chance against Pokemon that outspeed it.

    Steadfast: When this Pokemon is flinched its Speed raises 1 stage.
    Inner Focus: This Pokemon cannot be flinched. This does not include flinching as a Focus Punch.
    Justice Heart [Dream World]: When this Pokemon is damaged by a Dark-type attack its Attack raises 1 stage.

    Neither of its non-Dream World abilities are too stunning as not many Pokemon will try to flinch Lucario, so you can really choose either. While Steadfast may look appealing because of the possibility of raising Lucario's average speed, it will also cause Lucario to lose a valuable turn that could have been spent using Swords Dance or Nasty Plot. While Justice Heart does not grant a Dark-type immunity, Lucario's resistance to Dark allows it to switch into most Dark-type moves without taking too much damage and while still getting the Attack boost.

    Moves Learned
    Physical Moves
    Ankle Sweep (TM47): Fighting | 60 BP | 20 PP | 100% | Decreases opponent's Speed by 1 stage.
    Bite (Egg Move)
    Blaze Kick (Egg Move)
    Bone Rush (Level 19)
    Brick Break (TM31)
    Bullet Punch (Egg Move)
    Close Combat (Level 55)
    Cross Chop (Egg Move)
    Crunch (Egg Move)
    Dig (TM28)
    Earthquake (TM26)
    Extremespeed (Level 65)
    Facade (TM42)
    Feint (Level 15)
    Fling (TM56)
    Force Palm (Level 11)
    Frustration (TM21)
    Giga Impact (TM68)
    Hi Jump Kick (Egg Move)
    Low Kick (Egg Move)
    Metal Claw (Level -)
    Overhead Throw (Egg Move): Fighting | 60 BP | 10 PP | 90% | Forces the target to switch.
    Payback (TM66)
    Poison Jab (TM84)
    Quick Attack (Level -)
    Retaliation (TM67): Normal | 5 PP | 70 BP | 100% | BP increases if an ally was KOed the previous turn.
    Return (TM27)
    Reversal (Riolu Level 19)
    Rock Smash (TM94)
    Rock Tomb (TM39)
    Shadow Claw (TM65)
    Sky Uppercut (Egg Move)
    Smooth Over (TM78): Ground | PP | 60 BP | 100% | Lowers the opponent's speed.
    Stone Edge (TM71)
    Strength (HM04)

    Special Moves
    Aura Sphere (Level 51)
    Dark Pulse (Level -)
    Desperation (Riolu Level 55): Fighting | --- BP | 5 PP | 100% | KOs the user and deals damage to the opponent equal to the HP lost by using this move.
    Dragon Pulse (Level 60)
    Flash Cannon (TM91)
    Focus Blast (TM52)
    Hidden Power (TM10)
    Hyper Beam (TM17)
    Psychic (TM29)
    Shadow Ball (TM30)
    Troll (TM48): Normal | 60 BP | 15 PP | 100% | Power increases when allies also use Troll.
    Vacuum Wave (Egg Move)

    Support Moves
    Agility (Egg Move)
    Attract (TM45)
    Bulk Up (TM08)
    Calm Mind (Level 47)
    Calm Mind (TM04)
    Cheer Up (TM83): Normal | 30 PP | ---% | Raises user's Attack and Special Attack 1 stage.
    Claw Sharpen (TM01): Dark | 15 PP | ---% | Raises user's Attack and Accuracy 1 stage.
    Copycat (Riolu Level 29)
    Counter (Level 6)
    Detect (Level -/Egg Move)
    Double Team (TM32)
    Endure (Riolu Level -)
    Fast Guard (Level 33): Fighting | 15 PP | ---% | Protects your team from priority moves. Will fail if used in succession.
    Follow Me (Egg Move)
    Foresight (Level -)
    Heal Pulse (Level 42): Psychic | 10 PP | ---% | Restores 50% of an ally's HP.
    Iron Defense (Egg Move)
    Me First (Level 29)
    Metal Sound (Level 24)
    Mind Reader (Egg Move)
    Nasty Plot (Riolu Level 47)
    Protect (TM17)
    Rain Dance (TM18)
    Rest (TM44)
    Roar (TM05)
    Rock Slide (TM80)
    Screech (Riolu Level 24)
    Substitute (TM90)
    Sunny Day (TM11)
    Swagger (TM87)
    Swords Dance (Level 37, TM75)
    Toxic (TM06)

    Lucario has several different options given its movepool and stat distribution. While Lucario does not has the biggest variety in terms of move typing, it does get good coverage with either special or physical attacks. On the physical side Lucario possesses STAB Close Combat to tear through teams and a powerful Crunch to help with coverage. Lucario also has Extremespeed or STAB Bullet Punch for priority that allows Lucario to deal with faster Pokemon. On the special side Lucario has STAB Aura Sphere and Dark Pulse to use as alternates to Close Combat and Crunch respectively. It also has a special priority move in its STAB Vacuum Wave. It also has 4 good set up moves, Swords Dance, Nasty Plot, Cheer Up, and Agility to boost its already good offensive stats.

    Sets Ideas
    name: Swords Dance
    move 1: Swords Dance
    move 2: Close Combat / High Jump Kick
    move 3: ExtremeSpeed / Bullet Punch
    move 4: Crunch
    item: Life Orb
    ability: Justice Heart / Inner Focus
    evs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
    nature: Jolly / Adamant

    Will Edit Later

    name: Nasty Plot
    move 1: Nasty Plot
    move 2: Aura Sphere
    move 3: Dark Pulse
    move 4: Hidden Power Ice / Vacuum Wave
    item: Life Orb
    ability: Inner Focus
    evs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
    nature: Timid / Modest

    Will Edit Later

    Other Set to maybe consider
    - Mixed Cheer Up set
    - Agility set (either Physical or Special)
  2. giggity69


    Sep 15, 2009
    I can still see an agility set working, and cheer up has potential too.

    Edit : His dreamworld ability can really come in handy, too; with all the new ghosts around tyranitar will be throwing crunches out left and right, so if you manage to get an attack boost from that and agility on the switch, that could be dangerous.
  3. DDRMaster


    Jun 26, 2008
    I could see a mixed Cheer Up set working. It would probably use something like Close Combat, Shadow Ball, and Extremespeed/HP Ice. I'm not sure it would really be any better than the two sets you posted, though. It's nice to see Lucario being able to use a pure Special set that's not Choice Specs as well. It might not end up being as good as the SD set but we'll have to see.

    The real thing that could really help Lucario is Justice Heart. It was already able to switch in on Dark attacks with some prediction but now it will be able to get a +1 Atk boost as well. It's too bad that we probably won't be able to use it with Crunch and Agility.
  4. DR809


    Aug 16, 2008
    If a tyranitar comes in on a ghost pursuit is almost guaranteed to be the move he'll use to trap the ghost. So Lucario can't really come in to a pursuit since it'll already have done damage to the previous pokemon.
  5. PI-Dimension


    Jul 31, 2009
    Cheer Up/Agility/Close Combat/Dark Pulse ftw
  6. greg3064


    Feb 26, 2009
    It should probably be noted, as well, that Extremespeed has +2 priority this gen, allowing Lucario to do something to faster things carrying Vacuum Wave or Mach Punch (such as Infernape).
  7. WarriorPrince


    Nov 9, 2008
    I agree. This is also a perfect opportunity to add +2 to either of your attacking stats. I don't think Justice Heart makes too much difference in the end. Pursuit is the move that will be thrown around more, and Lucario won't be getting hit by many Dark attacks.
  8. norelationstojfk


    Sep 5, 2010
    I was thinking maybe a mixed Nasty Plot set would be viable, with Aura Sphere, Dark Pulse, and Extremespeed for clean up.

    Edit: Scratch the Vacuum wave alternative. Then it wouldn't be a mix.
  9. thewetmop


    Sep 19, 2010
    If it wasn't for Zoroark getting flamethrower, justice heart Luke would make a good switch into him.
  10. Thorhammer


    Jun 18, 2008
    That would require knowing you were facing a Zororak, though.
  11. Farukon_o_miru


    Sep 16, 2010
    Now Lucario with Nasty Plot, Claw Sharpen and Cheer Up will be even more unpredictable, and with Justice Heart it is going to be a better counter of Dark type Pokémon, but IMO things like Heal Pulse and Fast Guard will not be too used with Lucario (because it is mainly offensive). With its new boosting moves and ability i´m sure that Lucario will be a even more threatening opponent in the B&W metagame than in DPP.
  12. Limewire

    Limewire PRESS R TO WIN
    is a Contributor Alumnus

    May 2, 2010
    Will Lucario use Swords Dance, Nasty Plot or Cheer Up? One wrong switch and it's game over.

    Anyone thinking of a mixed Calm Mind set? That might help Lucario take special hits more efficiently.

    Lucario @ Life Orb
    252 SpA/252 Spe Timid
    ~ Calm Mind
    ~ Extremespeed
    ~ Dark Pulse
    ~ Aura Sphere
  13. AlphaJolt


    Jan 14, 2010
    Why would you use Modest? It takes away from ExtremeSpeed's damage.
  14. Crashman


    May 29, 2009
    Actually, if Lucario switches in on a dark attack and gets the justice heart boost he can OHKO Zoroark with rocks up at the very least with a +1 Extremespeed. I ran a damage calc on an Absol with a +1 extremespeed who has similar stats but better HP and it came out as 92.6% - 109.2%, meaning that these figures would be even higher for Zoroark unless it runs some kind of bulky spread most of the time, which would be counter productive.
  15. Limewire

    Limewire PRESS R TO WIN
    is a Contributor Alumnus

    May 2, 2010
    Oops, my bad. Fixed.
  16. AlphaJolt


    Jan 14, 2010
    But what if he doesn't come in on a Dark attack, then he does much less damage with ExSpeed. This set pretty much requires him to get the attack boost to be effective. Something such as Vacuum Wave would be better for priority, but that would defeat the purpose of using Justice Heart.

    Edit: Timid has the same problem as Modest (forgot to say that earlier), you would want either Hasty or Naive so that niether of your attacks are dropped.
  17. Yogi Bear.

    Yogi Bear.

    Jan 3, 2009
    Doesn't a Timid Nature still lower the power of ExtremeSpeed? I would think Modest would be better than Timid since if Luke wants Speed it can just Extremespeed.
  18. Limewire

    Limewire PRESS R TO WIN
    is a Contributor Alumnus

    May 2, 2010
    Wow, I must have been asleep while posting that set >_<. You know what, how about I just make the CM set purely special and put Inner Focus>Justice Heart and Vaccum Wave>Espeed? Hasty/Naive lowers Lucario's already pitiful defense stats.

    Oh, and Luke could also run a physical counterpart with Bulk Up.
  19. SithLord


    Feb 26, 2008
    With the Rotom formes having lost their Ghost-typing, Lucario can now slaughter them with a boosted ExtremeSpeed or Close Combat. For instance, a +2 Adamant LO ExtremeSpeed does 86.36% - 102.07% on a 6 HP/0 Def Choice Scarf/Choice Specs Timid Rotom, a OHKO more than 92% of the time provided Stealth Rock is in play. Slower, more defensive Rotom sets are met with Close Combat for a swift OHKO.

    Previously, thanks to Intimidate, Lucario couldn't OHKO Salamence with ExtremeSpeed, even after Stealth Rock. But now, If Lucario switches into a Choice Band/Choice Scarf Tyanitar's Crunch and gets its Justice Heart boost, it can OHKO 6 Hp/0 Def Salamence with a +2 LO ExtremeSpeed. The same goes for 6 HP/0 Def Gyarados as well (SR is need for both examples).

    Checks for the SD set like Hippowdon and Scarf Heatran would be destroyed by a +2 LO Aura Sphere or Vacuum Wave, thanks to Nasty Plot. Vacuum Wave also handles Sazandora quite well.

    Lucario is looking to be a fantastic Pokemon all around, much like it was in Gen. IV.
  20. Arcanite


    Jun 21, 2010
    Close combat could be used as move 4 on the NP set to KO blissey after Rocks if Lucario runs naieve.
  21. Murkglow


    Sep 21, 2010
    The OP might want to update that the research thread has confirmed the Justice Heart does not make you immune to Dark, you just get the boost.
  22. shipship


    May 17, 2008
    Lucario is viable with Swords Dance, Nasty Plot, and Agility.

    It should not use Cheer Up or Calm Mind.

    Cheer Up is outclassed by Swords Dance and Nasty Plot. +2 in one stat is way better than +1 in both, given Lucario's huge movepool. Calm Mind is just worthless given Lucario's frailty and access to Nasty Plot.
  23. Upstart

    Upstart Copy Cat

    Aug 23, 2010
    Honestly they just keep making this guy more potent. Also his new sprite shows off just how BA he is.
  24. Erebos


    Jun 2, 2006
    This has been proven wrong in the research thread, so it's best to edit it out.

  25. shipship


    May 17, 2008
    I think Modest and Vacuum Wave should be the primary options on Nasty Plot.

    Vacuum Wave beats way too much important stuff (Scarf-Heatran, Scarf-Tyranitar, the new Ground/Steel mole, among others).

    Modest gives you maximum wall-breaking power.

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