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Discussion in 'BW OU' started by Ditto, Sep 19, 2010.

  1. ArcDeus


    Jun 3, 2010
    That's just my opinion, but, even without an immunity to Dark type Moves, Lucario only takes really little damage from them, or, these moves have to be boosted + Stabed to really hurt it.

    Lucario being this type of deadly but frail Pokemon, I therefore think that the little damage he would take from a Dark type attack is negligible, as it is OHKO by anything he doesn't resist. Just my noobish opinion though ^^.
  2. the_artic_one


    Jul 31, 2007
    Even without the immunity Justice heart is nice since lucario 4x resists dark.
  3. Lucalibur


    Aug 9, 2009
    +1 atack is great on any physically based(or mixed) set Lucario can run. the SD set enjoy ohkoing pert/hippo with CC, cress/dusk with crunch and other random crap.

    the agility set specially enjoy the boost. nasty plot+focus blast ohko bliss(Even though we all are gonna be running aura sphere anyway) and +2 vaccum wave is gonna make scarf heatran and t-tar run for they mothers.

    overall i liked what lucario got this gen though i still dont understand why he get bullet punch but not mach punch(same for most fighting pokes that get BP but not MP).
  4. Bloo

    Bloo Banned deucer.

    Jan 20, 2009
    I really like the sound of Justice Heart on Lucario, especially on an Agility set! Lucario typically runs into problems with the likes of Gliscor, Choice Scarf Tyranitar / Garchomp / Magnezone, and various other Pokémon, which Agility solves. With a 4x resistance to Dark-type attacks he can switch-in on a move like Crunch (typically seen on Pokémon like Tyranitar), gain +1 Attack thanks to his ability, then set-up an Agility on the switch. You then have a +1 Atk / +2 Spe Lucario on your hands, ready to wreak havoc.

    Lucario @ Life Orb
    Ability: Justice Heart
    Nature: Naughty
    EVs: 4 SpA / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
    -Close Combat
    -Hidden Power Ice

    Pretty straightforward set. Naughty is chosen over Adamant so HP Ice doesn't receive -SpA; I don't think Luke can use Ice Punch in B&W :/ With a Naughty nature, you reach a speed stat of 558, which is enough to outrun the likes of Choice Scarf Garchomp, giving you an opportunity to clobber it with HP Ice. You also reach an attack stat of 525 if you manage to get a boost from Justice Heart. Pair this up with a few entry hazards, and you've got yourself a monster. Also, as far as I know, Dream World abilities can be breed, so I think it's possible to have Crunch and Justice Heart on the same set. Correct me if I'm wrong.

    Swords Dance sets also gained a huge boost, seeing as ExtremeSpeed is now +2 priority, which means Mach Punch Infernape can't revenge kill you now! Also, if Justice Heart is compatible with the typical moves Lucario runs on an SD set, that's sweet. If you get an attack boost from Justice Heart and a SD under your belt, you'll have a +3 ExtremeSpeed to wreck stuff with. Absolutely beautiful.

    Lucario has access to pretty much all of the major stat-boosting moves, which is pretty cool. I'm excited that Luke obtained Nasty Plot in Generation V, since it gives Luke a viable way to make use of its stellar Special Attack stat without having to resort to using Calm Mind or Choice Specs. A +2 Vacuum Wave is incredibly useful for killing off faster Scarfers who are weak to the move. All in all, I'm pleased with the improvements Lucario got in B&W. Let's see how well he'll fare in the Gen. V metagame!
  5. shipship


    May 17, 2008
    Ice Punch is incompatible with Justice Heart isn't it?

    At least Lucario doesn't need any SpAtk investment to kill Gliscor with HP Ice, so it's not a huge deal.
  6. GLS


    Sep 18, 2010
    I like Justice Heart on paper, but the more I think about it the more I think that the ability is just going to make Pursuit the go to dark move for everyone. The fact that Pursuit goes off on the poke you want and will never boost a Justice Heart user would be good enough, but then there is the fact that opponents are more likely to actually switch out to Lucario predicting a dark attack and giving pursuit double damage.

    If anything I think that Lucario might be the biggest giver of Justice Heart boosts himself because Crunch is is his only way of dealing with ghosts.
  7. Thund91


    May 28, 2009
    Nasty Plot Lucario. <3 Calm Mind just wasn't up to snuff. Still has priority so will Nasty Plot be the set of choice? One can dream....
  8. shipship


    May 17, 2008
    I ran a bunch of calcs on this:

    Lucario @ Life Orb
    Modest, Inner Focus
    252 SpAtk, 6 SpDef, 252 Speed
    ~ Aura Sphere
    ~ Vacuum Wave
    ~ Shadow Ball
    ~ Nasty Plot!

    +2 Aura Sphere, max HP, 104 SpDef Hippo:

    722 Atk vs 206 Def & 420 HP (90 Base Power): 439 - 517 (104.52% - 123.10%)

    Standard Impish/Relaxed Swampert:

    722 Atk vs 216 Def & 404 HP (90 Base Power): 420 - 495 (103.96% - 122.52%)

    Standard Bold Vaporeon:

    722 Atk vs 226 Def & 448 HP (90 Base Power): 400 - 472 (89.29% - 105.36%)

    Standard Bold Suicune:

    722 Atk vs 266 Def & 404 HP (90 Base Power): 342 - 403 (84.65% - 99.75%)

    Skarmory and Forretress have no chance obviously.

    +2 Vacuum Wave on Scarf Heatran:

    722 Atk vs 249 Def & 323 HP (40 Base Power): 324 - 384 (100.31% - 118.89%)

    +2 Vacuum Wave on Scarf Tyranitar in SandStorm:

    722 Atk vs 354 Def & 342 HP (40 Base Power): 460 - 544 (134.50% - 159.06%)

    +2 Vaccum Wave will also OHKO the dangerous Doryuuzu and Sazando.

    +2 Shadow Ball on Cresselia, basically the bulkiest Psychic possible:

    722 Atk vs 296 Def & 444 HP (80 Base Power): 362 - 428 (81.53% - 96.40%)

    54% chance to OHKO after SR.

    Burunkeru (the water-ghost jellyfish) is not as bulky as Cresselia so it has no chance.

    Even Blissey cannot beat special Lucario. Bold Blissey:

    722 Atk vs 306 Def & 714 HP (90 Base Power): 594 - 702 (83.19% - 98.32%)

    Ubers Calm Blissey fares better:

    722 Atk vs 405 Def & 651 HP (90 Base Power): 446 - 528 (68.51% - 81.11%)

    Nasty Plot Lucario hits insanely hard.
  9. Chillarmy


    Nov 7, 2009
    Is there any particular reason to why HJK isn't slashed in the SD set with Close Combat? It OHKOes Swampert all of the time and Hippowdon after damage from SR (or a layer of Spikes), plus Scizor can't revenge kill Lucario until about 45% without the Def drops. That's enough to warrant a slash IMO
  10. Iceblade157


    Aug 29, 2010
    I tried the following lucario set in OU (4th gen), and it works very well:

    Lucario @ sash (lead)
    252 atk 252 spe 4hp
    -close combat
    -sword dance
    -bullet punch
    -ice punch / thunder punch

    I dont find extreme speed that reliable as there were too many switchins of ghost types that made the move look like dead weight. Bullet punch can do some serious damage, and is not resisted as much as extreme speed, and is more unexpected, because no one pays attention to egg moves. SD is not very common on a lead, thats why this works so perfectly agains lead ninjasks. just SD and bullet punch on the second turn, and they're dead meat. close combat is for general cover up whileice punch and thunder punch hunt down other types. I personally prefer ice over thunder as i have seen alot of taunt gliscors.
  11. Red_Scizor


    Oct 2, 2010
    Has the Choice Band set been discussed? Hit for +2 on their switch

    Also, there was some talk about showing your team before the battle; switching into a dark move may be trickier then (but this can be argued about any poke carrying immunities too).


    Aug 9, 2007
    Wow, Lucario has just gotten even more dangerous than it was back in the 4th generation. It now has nasty plot, so it can run a very powerful Special attacking set. And there are always SD Lucario. Lucario looks like it will be one of the most used attackers in 5th generation, it can hit very hard and has priority on both sides of the spectrum.
  13. Colonel Darren

    Colonel Darren

    Mar 11, 2010
    Swords Dance, Lucario's stupid high attack afterward, and one miss. Plus, Luke can move around Revengers trying to pick it off after drop or put a final dent in something with Extremespeed.

    If you run High Jump Kick, you're playing with Risk/Reward. All it takes is one miss and Luke's dead, no matter what.
  14. MightyGeb


    Sep 30, 2010
    You look at some of the additions to others this gen... they're generally alright I guess.

    Then you look at everything Lucario got. Justice Heart, Nasty Plot and increased priority Extremespeed. Wasn't it popular enough already? I think the NP damage calculations just about sum it up. Just think - an SD and Justice Heart combined is stronger still...
  15. Bugbot


    Sep 27, 2010
    Sure, Shadow Ball is there for Psychic and Ghost types there to wall him. But what about Dragon Pulse? Dragon Pulse and Aura Sphere have wonderful coverage.
  16. WarriorPrince


    Nov 9, 2008
    Actually Dragon/Fighting and Fighting/Ghost both offer the same coverage. Lucario doesn't wanna stay in on most Dragons anyway.
  17. Wafflez


    Apr 12, 2010
    Well Luke is as cool as ever and with all the frail sweepers that came out this gen his late game potential is just as good as ever.Man ive used this stuff for too long....I have like what 20 Lucario teams this year >__>.Nasty plot seems quite interesting but i'd probably say SD is superior but w/e thats just my oppinion.I really cant see Cheer up working out.I mean what would it offer that SD/NP already dsn't?I think the agility set should also deserve a consideration because it is quite effective.
  18. Aqueos


    Jan 27, 2010
    Not to mention ghost types. In any case, high jump kick doesn't lower your defence, so weak priority is less of an issue.
  19. Shimrit As

    Shimrit As

    Feb 28, 2009
    Nasty Plot is sexy. It's convenient to have Vacuum Wave to revenge other Lucario as well as Doryuuzu, Sazandora, Tyranitar etc. Also with Rotom-a losing their Ghost typings and the Gen V ghosts - Burunkeru, Desukan, Shanderaa and Goruugu - having <90 base Spe, SD Lucario should have an easier time. A +Spe nature might be more useful now since Shanderaa can't trap and KO you for free and on the Agility set Sand Throw Doryuuzu can't revenge you after one boost.
  20. Gabe


    Sep 28, 2010
    Lucario got marginally better, but it was already great. Most likely it will have no trouble competing in the 5th gen.
  21. nametheoccupation


    Oct 15, 2010
    I just saw that Lucario gets Nasty Plot and started breeding for Riolu right away. This will be HUGE:

    Lucario @ Life Orb
    Ability: Inner Focus
    EVs: 252 SpA/4 Def/252 Spd
    Timid nature (+Spe, -Atk)
    - Nasty Plot
    - Aura Sphere
    - Shadow Ball
    - Vacuum Wave/Dragon Pulse

    Aura Sphere is a solid STAB move and gives perfect neutral coverage with Shadow Ball. Vacuum Wave gives you priority, though since the speed tiers haven't been set yet (?) I don't know what you could kill with it that is faster than Lucario (Sazandora maybe?). Dragon Pulse is a worthy option if you don't run Vacuum Wave and once again, gives perfect coverage with Aura Sphere.
    No need to go physical here. Even with Timid, +2 LO Aura Sphere guarantees a 2HKO against even 252/252 Calm Blissey, which is a testament to the power of this set. I'd do some calculations for 5th gen monsters like Nattorei, but I don't know if there is a calculator for BW yet (lol noob) so calcs are restricted to 4th gen threats. Timid lets you outspeed non-Scarfed Shandera, who could otherwise come in on an Aura Sphere and OHKO before you can use Shadow Ball. You can use Modest if you're not worried about Shandera.
    Gengar will stop this set cold as long as it doesn't come in on a Shadow Ball. The standard LO Starmie takes 76.3% - 90.1% from +2 Timid Aura Sphere and 83.6% - 98.5% from Modest, a possible OHKO if you have rocks and pretty much guaranteed if you can get up Spikes.
    Lucario needs Pursuit support to get rid of Gengar and Shandera and entry hazards to guarantee some KOs. Tyranitar can Pursuit, though it shares Lucario's fighting and ground weaknesses. Azelf and Aerodactyl leads can get up SR early on while something like Roserade can get up some fast Spikes.

    This concludes my tldr theorymon session. If you have any feedback or anything to add on please mention it.
  22. malcolmpc


    Mar 24, 2010
    What are the benefits of running Crunch over Stone Edge? Stone edge hurts a lot of Lucario's counters.
  23. Shock Trooper

    Shock Trooper

    Jan 14, 2010
    Crunch hits those bulky Ghost-types that normally laugh at a Lucario with Stone Edge and not Crunch (pretty much only Shanderaa hates Stone Edge lol)

    Anyways I feel that Lucario is going to be one of the best users of Justice Heart in the metagame because of its 4x resist to dark, very capable physical or special movepool, and priority on both sides of the offensive spectrum. It will still have some counters or checks, but they will be dependent on the set. I actually feel that NP Luke is the most dangerous if shipship's calculations are correct, since it will hit like a truck. The loss of Ice Punch makes it easier for Gliscor to check Physical Lucario as well.
  24. Shining Kestral

    Shining Kestral

    Jul 29, 2010
    Nasty Plot has made my dreams of special not-specs Lucario come true!

    This makes me happier than it should have. Anyway, Fighting/Ghost offers perfect neutral coverage (or at least, it did in Gen IV), Fighting/Dragon sounds nice too. Shadow Ball comes with that nice chance for a Sp. Def drop, too. I don't think NP Lucario should be using Dark Pulse when Shadow Ball or Dragon Pulse are options, unless there's some kind of advantage it offers that I'm missing.
  25. malcolmpc


    Mar 24, 2010
    But what about the coverage gained on gyarados and zapados gained by stone edge?

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