Metagame Metagame Discussion Thread

[Jespoke]

Something getting nerfed THAT HARD should probably be given a customary chance. But it is Swagger I'm referring to, so who knows.

With -5% accuracy, Dark types blocking prankster, and most importantly the reduced self hit chance, it may have gone down from warping to annoying

 

[tigers jaw]

This is kinda unreleated to all this, but am I the only one having trouble picking megas this gen? Maybe it's just me really wanting to try new stuff, but I often have to kind of force myself to run one, and even have a bunch of teams without one. A lot of new non-megas compete directly with megas, and are in some ways even better than said megas even when taking mega stones into account. Mega opportunity cost just seems a bit lower this gen.

Completely agree with you on Greninja, this thing is still far too much to handle and adequately prepare for. Still the same old bullshit of having to pack multiple checks to it and pivot around to figure out its coverage in order to beat it, or at least stand a chance. No way can this thing be fine in the future once shit like Pheromosa has been handled and the meta has actually developed a little.

Wanna bring up Tapu Lele for a second. This thing is just straight-up ridiculous and the only set I'm yet to try is Specs. Really reminiscent of Hoopa-U, and in some ways better considering it has a far better typing, isn't weak to a million types, has Fairy-type STAB which almost perfectly complements the supernuke Psychic/Shocks it can fire off, and has all the coverage it'd want to boot. Not to mention it has an actual Speed stat that is respectable. Balance stands zero chance whatsoever against this thing, as well as stall, really. Another thing that cannot remain in a meta without it being warped towards complete offence.

Tapu Koko also seems incredibly hard to handle on paper, akin to Lando-I back in XY and ORAS. Has all the necessary coverage it needs to have like 0 good counters whatsoever, incredible speed, great power, and multiple options as far as sets go. I can see this becoming a huge issue, seeing as the only way to reliably check it is to keep up hazards and outpace it with shit like Lopunny.

With regards to the quoted part of your post, I think Lopunny is the best Mega right now. With almost all teams either being chewed up by the new balance/stallbreakers we got (see: Lele), this thing is savage. Healing Wish has an incredible amount of merit in such a fast-paced and offensive meta, too, allowing you to bring back crucial members of defensive backbones that are going to find themselves overwhelmed; being able to fit it on something that has the offensive prowess and ability to break through teams that aren't really preparing for it at all (seeing a lot less Lando-T/Tang/Clef etc.), is great. Baton Pass into *insert X breaker (or Lele) here* is incredible, also.

This is something that is seriously controversial but I don't think an Aegislash ban should be on the top of the agenda at all. Super-flexible blanket checks are so important in metas with so many threats to prepare for, and I think it needs to stick around until a few of the more pressing things are taken care of.

Shouts to Hippowdon. Good Tapu Koko check assuming no Grass Knot, sponges a lot of shit as it used to etc., and the decline of Mega Eye means it can actually hope to get up Rocks. Really liking this 'Mon in conjunction with Aegislash as a defensive backbone.

 

[Karxrida]

Something getting nerfed THAT HARD should probably be given a customary chance. But it is Swagger I'm referring to, so who knows.

With -5% accuracy, Dark types blocking prankster, and most importantly the reduced self hit chance, it may have gone down from warping to annoying

I have seen no confirmation of the nerf to the self-hit chance, and I have not been able to tell myself while playing on-cart. It still needs some testing.

 

[Niadev]

Been playing both Future and main and got decently high on the ladders, so I have a bit of experience. I'd say I've played about 40 games so far to estimate. It's been kind of fun, had a few close matches that came down to agressive plays. Some annoying fat matches though, I definitely have to work on my ability to break those kinds of teams haha.

As many have said, Aegi is broken good lord. I wasn't around to face it the first time but I'm kind of thankful for that now haha. Defensive capabilities up the ass and Blade form with LO hits hard as fuck. It also checks a tonne of the UBs and most of the Tapus (but Bulu actually can 2hko with RESISTED WOOD HAMMER holy fuck). Actually it flat out checks half the meta lmao. While I don't think it's quite quickban worthy it's definitely ban worthy. Phera isn't actually too amazing with Aegi around but once Aegi's gone, hooooo boy.

As far as what's good right now, Lando-I is actually pretty decent - I've seen a good amount of success with it. It hits hard as fuck and RP cleans fast teams. It also breaks Aegi who is a huge pain in the ass otherwise to break. Nice partner for Pheromosa, who despises it and other steels like it. Speaking of steels, Genesect is kind of nice. U-turn for free Phera switchins is nice and it checks annoying 'mons like Tapus. Kind of hurt by Aegi too but that's what Lando-I's for haha. Flamethrower is mandatory rn though, yes Aegi is that much of a pain. Also bops Toxapex which is everywhere right now, who be a pain in the ass to handle otherwise. Gained a new sort of counter in Sp.Def Celesteela, though, but it's only taking Focus once before being 2hkod due to lack of any real recovery, and hell it's barely taking it from full after rocks in the first place. Mantine's a nice check to it but loses to Rock Slide.

Mantine is actually really annoying to face, I've been running HP Elec Phero to lure it. Also nice to bop lead Pelliper on rain teams and cut their source of rain, allowing Phero to do damage late game. Mantine also doubles as a pretty nice Gren answer from the looks of it and is one of the few walls not eventually broken by Aegi. Toxapex is also annoying but kind of passive. Scald only does like 50% to some grounds with average defenses. Heatran is pretty good right now, it takes on Gene very well and can break Aegi. Just don't let it even try to touch Duggy with a mile long pole.

Tapus in general are a pain. Koko is super annoying for offense and forces me to pivot to a ground type, hope they TBolt and hope they're not some ground beating variant so I can hit it. Not seen much of Lele though, but it's super nasty in theory. Tapu Bulu is dumb to switch in on too (see earlier point about 2hkoing aegislash with RESISTED WOOD HAMMER), but it's typing is meh and it's speed is at best passable. Tapu Fini is easy to wear down but can be annoying tbh. Definitely manageable.

Mega Diancie isn't horrible, it doesn't need to run Protect now so it can have all of the unholy quadrafecta of coverage. However, again, Aegi is a big problem for it. Mega Lop is probably one of the better megas though, doesn't even need fake out now (but it is still useful) and has the benefit of not giving Aegi a completely free switch.

Also why is Swagger unbanned and STag not? Ban goth ban Aegi and free wobbs smh

tl;dr ban aegislash, defo S+/super high S material rn

 

[Some random freak]

Here's a replay showing some Alolan Marowak goodness. I really do love this thing and I hope it can carve out enough of a niche to be usable long term.

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7ou-478485472

Some other observations I've made.

• Golisopod and Bewear are amazing tanks that take all sorts of hits.
  
• Rain is back with a vengeance thanks to Pelipper outclassing Politoed and Mega Swampert getting buffed. It's definitely something you have to prepare for.
  
• Toxapex and Mantine are the new faces of bulky waters.
  
• Kind of obvious but the Tapus are meta defining for sure.
  
• Aegislash is still dumb

 

[Valmanway]

I'm like 200% sure that Swagger is gonna get banned eventually, just not sure when. Like I get that it got plenty of nerfs this time around with 5 less accuracy, confusion damage being reduced, and Dark-types being immune to Prankster moves, all of which are vastly appreciated. To be honest, I'm just glad that Game Freak tried fixing this problem in the first place. But Swagger is still promoting incredibly frustrating and skill-free playstyles (if you can even call this a "playstyle") since it's still just one big series of coin flips throughout the match. 85 accuracy is still letting it land more than often enough to be consistent; like we use Focus Blast despite it landing every other blue moon, so expecting 85 accuracy to balance Swagger out is unfortunately wishful thinking. The confusion damage was never the main problem as well, but rather the potential of losing a whole turn that could cost people the match, so that argument is rather weak in my opinion, though not dying as early to confusion damage is at least some silver lining. Dark-types being immune to Prankster Swagger is great and all, but that's like what... 8-ish relevant Pokemon blocking it? Out of dozens that still have to take a gamble with it? Many of them don't want to risk taking a hit from Swagger users anyways, particularly from Klefki (the main offender). Honestly I'd sooner bring back Shadow Tag than deal with a god damn coin flip simulator. It just makes competitive Pokemon look like a complete joke.

 

[latinoheat]

Loving Bold Physical Defensive Mantine

 

[Freeroamer]

Mantine is very good yeah, M Dragon absolutely savaged me on ladder with it earlier today and it works really well with your typical Steel and Grass cores that were also popular in XY. Stuff like Mantine plus FerroTran or plus Aegi and Tang gives a really nice backbone for dealing with a lot of threats in the metagame right now. Really not sure what to make of Phermosa, don't want to write it off because it absolutely has the tools to be savage but it's been underhwleming both for me and against me.

 

[Drangonn.]

wtf

heres some stuff that u ppl need to use

kommo-o: strong. has good setup in dd and can win a lot of games, soft check to pheremosa if you go a bulkier route (which im still tryin).

LYCANROC: priority rock stab is really good use it more.

more soon!

 

[Doc97]

Come on guys just because something has been banned last generation it doesn't mean it needs to banned also now! I think that the only Mons that should banned are Pheromosa and Aegislash because they are very cancerous...
Mons like Greninja and Genesect are damn funny to use and I don't think they are overpower or overcentralyzing at all...
I also really love the Tapus. They are so fresh and I love the concept behind them!

By the way I love Smogon and I follow you since the 4th gen and I finally decided to subscribe!

 

[SketchUp]

I kinda wasted my whole day playing pokemon but playing around with Pheromosa, Aegislash, Tapu's is just so fun. I made 5 teams total, 4 were just throwing 6 offensive pokemon together and the 5th was Swagger (lol). I won't post the Swagger team here because I don't want to encourage anyone using this strategy.

Team 1:
Core: Aegislash + Tapu Bulu + Mega Diancie
Description: Aegislash in Grassy Terrain is extremely difficult to take down (I once had a match where it took 60% from a Bulu Wood Hammer, and within a few turns it was back at full health), and Tapu Bulu and Mega Diancie both help it with respectively a Ground resist and a Fire resist. Mega Diancie is great now it is not forced to run Protect and Diamond Storm giving it a +2 Defense boost is something many people don't consider but it's great for pokemon like Landorus-T. I used Pheromosa because I just wanted to and I couldn't think of any reason not to use it. Scarf Landorus-T because it's a Landorus-T and Mantine because it's overpowered. Pokemon like Tapu Koko and Mega Venusaur are annoying but can be played around.
Importable: http://pastebin.com/hF8fEsDi

Team 2:
Core: Didn't really have a core, I just threw some pokemon together and it worked for some reason
Description: Don't really have anything to say, I just threw some pokemon together and it worked for some reason. All pokemon on this team are either gen 7 (Kartana, Tapu Koko), recently unbanned (Landorus, Mawile, Greninja) or gained something else (Latios). This team kinda loses to Pheromosa and since that is the biggest threat atm you should think twice if you want to actually use it.
Importable: http://pastebin.com/syHwAPZ5

Team 3:
Core: MVenusaur + Celesteela
Description: A more bulky offensive team that's really weird to use from my experience but can work really well in some matchups. Toxapex is one of the most annoying pokemon to face, kinda like gen 6 Ferrothorn except it can't be trapped (bar LO/Banded Duggy) and lured in with a 4x weakness. Didn't really know what to do with Magearna so just went with a AoA set with Shuca + Ice Beam to lure Lando, but Specs is also nice. Tapu Lele is an awesome revengekiller and Roseli Garchomp works nice with all these fairy types around. I just stole the Toxapex + Celesteela sets from other people but they work fine so no reason to change it. Brave Bird Tapu Koko needs to die, Aegislash is annoying, and Dugtrio and Baton Pass are awesome additions to the metagame: I hope they'll stay forever.
Importable: http://pastebin.com/R2FYcBU4

Team 4:
Core: Swellow + Dugtrio and Alolan Marowak + Mantine
Description: Only a day in and I already start building gimmicky teams. I had these two cores sitting in my teambuilder, when I got the genius idea to just put them together, add a Roost 3 Atks Latios and a bulky Mawile for some reason. Swellow is really fun in an offensive metagame and Dugtrio supports it really well. Marowak-A is kinda underwhelming but a nice Koko, Pheromosa and Magearna check, as long as there are no Stealth Rocks (s/o mantine). Sludge Wave on Dugtrio because Tapu Bulu exists. I don't really remember why I put a MMawile and a Latios there, but they do whatever they're supposed to do. This team loses to more stuff than Team 1 and Team 3 (Mega Lopunny + Aegislash is broken), but is really awesome in some matchups where Swellow just kills a few pokemon with just clicking Boomburst.
Importable: http://pastebin.com/P1RZXDaZ

Btw all these teams have a terrible matchup against rain but I only faced Rain 3 times in 40+ matches and won 2 of them so I don't really care

 

[Tokyo Tom]

Gonna regret posting Shedinja here but hey, someone has to do it. Also with the return of Aegislash comes everyone's favourite bird.

Shedinja is great because it hard walls Pheromosa and the Guardian Deities, as well as the whole slew of 'Mons it walled last gen + niche stuff like Magearna.
I started using it because it prevents U-Turn and Volt Switch, and those momentum-grabbing moves are everywhere right now. Shedinja can then use its slower Baton Pass to get free switches into one of the many threats this gen has to offer (its Baton Pass is also fast enough to avoid slower Pursuiters such as Aegislash). The current lack of Ttar allows you to run Sash and lessens the support needed to sustain Shedinja, but I expect this to change in the near future. Shedinja also makes opponent play over-aggressively which you can take advantage of (ex. they might pull a double from Pheromosa expecting Shedinja, allowing you to stay in and attack) simply because momentum is so important right now in a metagame dominated by heavy offense. With Toxapex running around everywhere, Shedinja does need a fair amount of support, but at this moment I feel that it's as low-maintenance a 'Mon as it will ever be, so take advantage of it while you can.

I paired Shedinja with two heavy Specs hitters and BD Azu to make the most of its Baton Passing abilities, and then combined it with a defensive core of Sableye and Mandibuzz to deter hazards. Although it seems specialized, only Sableye and Mandibuzz really cater towards Shedinja, which speaks to how little support (compared to the usual) it needs to function. At least, until it rises in usage :S

Mandibuzz does pretty much the same thing it did last gen. It's a Defogger that can Taunt, and also either stops offensive threats with Foul Play or neuters defensive threats with Knock Off. Having a Hoopa switch-in is extremely valuable on slower builds, and everyone wants an Aegislash counter as well (haven't seen Head Smash yet, and I'm honestly not sure if Head Smash warrants a moveslot in this volatile meta). Due to its bulk and typing, Mandibuzz can also soft check stuff like Landorus-I, Decidueye, Marowak(lol), and Pheromosa.

 

[Alakabamn]

Having played around 30-40 games on Future, I can definitely say that Aegislash, Genesect and Pheromosa are pretty overcentralizing.

Aegislash, of course, is the biggest offender, given that it is present on something like 75% of the teams (no joke) and checks almost all of the threats introduced this generations extremely well. It fears very little outside of Hoopa once on the field and can run a wide arrangement of sets that prevent other mons from truly checking it. Effectively, OU right now is a game of who wins the Aegislash war.

Pheromosa is kind of underwhelming currently in my own personal opinion, but if Aegislash ever gets banned I am certain it needs to go that route too. U-turn + HJK + Ice Beam is a nasty combination for anything not named Toxapex to take on and only a select group of various scarfers can really come in and deal with it. It also gets rapid spin, which makes its utility even more valuable as a last ditch spinner before a set-up mon appears.

Genesect is very much present in OU right now and actually, in contrast to the above, I think that it is NOT broken as of now. However, considering its movepool and power, I think as the meta settles to a more balance oriented play style where the checks and counters to everything are well-known and incorporated that it can become a huge problem. In terms of counters, there are very few given its coverage and nigh-guaranteed +1 boost upon entry. Off the type of my head, I can only think of Zard-X, Alolan Marowak and (for right now) Aegislash. But these mons share a problem in that continual switching wears them down, especially if stealth rocks are up (Zard and Marowak losing a quarter a piece), making a dedicated U-turner like Genesect that much closer to victory. While this may not seem like a big deal, I think the emergence of all the new rocky helmet users like Toxapex and Bewear speak volumes to how centralizing it is becoming.

As for threats being slept on a little...
1. I think that Tapu Lele hasn't quite been emphasized enough here. With Psychic Terrain up and base 130 SpA, it 2hkos almost everything that isn't steel/dark type with STAB Psychic/Psyshock and also threatens many of the new threats introduced to switch out, including the other Tapus and every UB not named Celesteela. Furthermore, for those dark types, it turns the switches into a 50/50 with Moonblast, immunity to priority and good base 95 speed. For this reason, Bisharp/Hoopa-U cannot really function well as a check excluding the rare scarf set. Personally, it is my opinion that scarfed Tapu Lele is the second best cleaner right now next to Scarfed Genesect.
2. Alolan-Marowak with Lightning Rod checks a CRAPLOAD of the meta right now, including Genesect, Pheromosa, Kartana, Tapu Koko, Physical Magearna, Xurkitree and M-Venusaur. Furthermore, its monstrous 568 attack stat with Adamant and a Thick Club means it hits nearly everything incredibly hard with STAB Shadow Bone and Flare Blitz, while retaining Earthquake to round out its respectable coverage. Earthquake also allows Marowak to break Toxapex, which would otherwise wall it to oblivion and back effortlessly. Its biggest problem right now is its propensity to get worn down fast, although no matter what Marowak will always tend to leave a serious impact on your opponents team should they not be running Rain or something.

 

[MagicHoraceGrant]

Alright, Smogon got too ban happy this gen. Deo-D, Mega Kang, and darkrai dont deserve the ban right away.
Deo-D: It has stealth rocks and spikes. but it is hard to keep this up the whole game. Especially with Defog and Spinning everywhere. BTW it is hard for Bisharp to switch into a lot of defoggers. Also there is 2 viable magic bouncers that it has to play around in Mega Diance and Mega Sableye.
Darkrai: Dark Void is worse than sing now It is a completly new pokemon, just give it a chance
Mega Kangashan: This thing with its reduced power can not get past walls. On top of this, sucker is nerfed and this was a huge way it was able to get past those threats.
We needed more time to do these bans and I feel they were an impulse decision to try to make the meta game balanced. It was a big mistake and definitely needs reevaluation/

 

[QuickBH]

Honestly I just wish we could ban Kings Shield and keep Aegislash, it's a signature move and we've had actual complex bans before that are way worse (re: gen 4 sand veil ban only for OU while the other tiers don't) or swift swim + drizzle etc. This is just a blanket ban on a move exclusive to Aegislash that removes the 50/50s but still lets Aegislash function as a useful check for frankly stupid ass mons like m-cham tapu lele m scizor m-diancie etc.. and the obviously busted mons now like pheramosa, mawile, genesect, etc. but it's infinitely easier to weaken and check when you know it has to essentially swap after one turn which makes checking this thing significantly easier. With stupidly strong threats introduced this gen with strong abilities and soon to be implemented z moves, I would genuinely want this thing around at least a little bit longer without the part of him that makes him stupid.

 

[flygon250]

I don't play competitive Pokemon very often, but I thought of a terrible gimmick set for Skarmory, that I shall aptly name "Weak Skarmory"

Weak Skarmory @ Life Orb /White Herb /Leftovers
Ability: Weak Armor
EVs: 72 HP / 252 Atk / 180 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Brave Bird / Drill Peck
- Iron Head
- Night Slash / Swords Dance / Roost
- Stealth Rock / Spikes / Swords Dance

As you can see, this Skarmory is weak because it uses Weak Armor, which actively weakens its strongest stat, so why even bother? I mean, you still have enough bulk to switch into the following attack:

252 Atk Life Orb Pheromosa High Jump Kick vs. 72 HP / 0 Def Skarmory: 214-253 (74 - 87.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

But then you lose all your defense, meaning you won't be able to take another hit! Sure, this EV spread makes you just fast enough to outspeed a max speed Pheromosa with a speed boosting nature after Weak Armor's newly-buffed speed boosting effect, meaning that Weak Skarm can safely OHKO with its flying STAB immediately after taking the hit, but why go through all of that effort just to check a Pokemon that will be going into Ubers before the end of the year? Besides they will probably just switch in their electric types to take care of it anyway.

252+ Atk Life Orb Skarmory Iron Head vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Tapu Koko: 153-183 (54.4 - 65.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

See? It's a 2HKO, but Tapu Koko is a super-strong electric type that is far too dangerous for Skarmory to stay in on at any rate.

252+ Atk Life Orb Skarmory Iron Head vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Tapu Lele: 343-406 (122 - 144.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Life Orb Skarmory Brave Bird vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Tapu Bulu: 359-424 (104.3 - 123.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Life Orb Skarmory Iron Head vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Tapu Bulu: 242-283 (70.3 - 82.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Life Orb Skarmory Brave Bird vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Fluffy Bewear: 242-289 (54.5 - 65%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

I suppose it fares pretty well against these Pokemon if Pheremosa tries to flee to them, I suppose. But still, why would anyone even bother making one of the best physical walls in the entire game into a weird wannabe Talonflame? It can't even use Defog, one of its best moves, if it has Weak Armor as its ability! An offensive Skarmory really is a weak Skarmory after all, as they say.

 

[Imperator Romanum]

Calling this shit right now, so I can say I invented it if it becomes popular.

Tapu Bulu stall is going to be one of the new prominent stall arch-types in generation seven. Grassy terrain does a couple things, it halves ground damage, it heals grounded mons by 6% each turn and it boosts grass power. Alone this acts as a deterrent to Dugtrio shenanigans, because with half the power you're not doing shit. Choice Banded Dugtrio does like 43% to max defence Toxapex. Not only that, but Earthquake is one of the most common offensive moves and coverage moves. You really, really benefit from every earthquake being significantly weaker.

But that's not all. 6% recovery for all of your grounded pokemon is amazing. Although this does effect your opponent, clever teambuilding really appreciates the passive recovery. For example, Aegislash. Aegislash loves Tapu Bulu. Defensive Landorus-Therian's Earthquake is a roll to 3hko Aegislash with Grassy terrain up - you also give Aegislash 6-12% recovery each turn. But that's not all, Mega Pokemon, Chansey ect. all love the passive recovery that allow them to be a tiny bit more careless.

This pokemon is bulky, it's got plenty of utility, it's got passive recovery in Leech seed + Protect, it removes ground weakness from virtually anything on your team bar Heatran, it gives recovery to every grounded pokemon on your team and it is a powerful wallbreaker.

Here's a core to try

Tapu Bulu + Aegislash + Toxapex

 

[Valentine]

i played against idarki for the live tour (which is still happening live on smogtours) and he showcased a really cool mon that should be used a lot more. of course, you see the nuts on both of our teams, aegi+dug+phermosa, but his rocker is way better than my dug, which is super unreliable at setting the hazard.

yesterday i was thinking about ways to wall the tapu's that aegi doesnt cover, those being fini (water), shadow ball lele (psychic) and koko (electric). excadrill came to mind as something that could hard wall koko and lele but i didn't want to run it on the same team as aegi. however, after getting crushed by it, i can see all the ways that excadrill fits into this metagame. the spdef set takes minuscule damage from aegislash, which makes it a premier switch-in. it's hard to find a reliable rocker right now, and excadrill can fit it onto it's moveset easily. there's also not that many floaties, which makes mold breaker EQ a real threat, and all of the offensive coverage you really need. you're also bulky enough to check mega mawile, which is really handy. you can run protect to bait phermosa into HJK and rack up letfies, you can run toxic to put Lando-T/Mantine on a timer, and you can spin away opposing hazards. you probably want enough speed to outpace lele, since it might try to focus blast you! iron head also good coverage for that mon.

 

[Frozocrone]

Ash-Greninja is really bad. Protean's working out better for me by far, even if I do limit myself to non-tutor moves.

Kinda want to try MCX against all the Greninjas though

 

[obii]

yo, i told myself i wouldnt play seriously till aegi goes but i wanted to play for that sumo release tour and built some teams. unfortunately i got outplayed and knocked out by finch but i wanna explain the teams i built.

Pheromosa+Hoopa BO

Hide

Pheromosa @ Expert Belt
Ability: Beast Boost
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Naive Nature
- High Jump Kick
- U-turn
- Poison Jab
- Ice Beam

Tapu Koko @ Life Orb
Ability: Electric Surge
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 30 Def
- Thunderbolt
- Dazzling Gleam
- Grass Knot
- Hidden Power [Ice]

Aegislash @ Leftovers
Ability: Stance Change
EVs: 224 HP / 252 SpA / 32 Spe
Rash Nature
- King's Shield
- Shadow Ball
- Flash Cannon
- Shadow Sneak

Latios @ Soul Dew
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Draco Meteor
- Psychic
- Recover
- Defog

Landorus-Therian @ Leftovers
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpD
Impish Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Earthquake
- U-turn
- Knock Off

Hoopa-Unbound @ Choice Band
Ability: Magician
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Hyperspace Fury
- Zen Headbutt
- Drain Punch
- Trick

The starting point was simple: use pheromosa with something that destroys aegislash and toxapex. I added an aegi of my own because its the worst thing to happen to competitive mons and blanket checks so much shit. Lati and Lando came next because I'm still in that oras mindset and steel / lando / lati is really basic glue for bulky offense. I added specs tapu koko because I wanted to threaten toxa/aegi even more with powerful volt switches as well as bait in mega venu's for hoopa. I tried a specs hoopa which kinda worked better than band so that can be changed.

CM 3 Attacks Tapu Lele

Hide

Tapu Lele @ Leftovers
Ability: Psychic Surge
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Calm Mind
- Psyshock
- Shadow Ball
- Focus Blast

Lopunny-Mega @ Lopunnite
Ability: Scrappy
Happiness: 0
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Fake Out
- Frustration
- High Jump Kick
- Healing Wish

Landorus @ Life Orb
Ability: Sheer Force
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 30 Def
- Earth Power
- Hidden Power [Ice]
- Sludge Wave
- Stealth Rock

Aegislash @ Leftovers
Ability: Stance Change
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Atk / 252 SpA
Rash Nature
- King's Shield
- Shadow Ball
- Flash Cannon
- Shadow Sneak

Rotom-Wash @ Leftovers
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Will-O-Wisp
- Hydro Pump
- Volt Switch
- Pain Split

Pheromosa @ Expert Belt
Ability: Beast Boost
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Naive Nature
- High Jump Kick
- U-turn
- Poison Jab
- Ice Beam

CM 3 attacks Lele is really cool because it works a bit like mega zam but bulkier and demolishes fatter teams. I wanted to use this guy cus it takes advantage of those ppl using anti meta stuff like mega venu etc etc. Lopunny was added next since it appreciated lele breaking down bulkier things and lop offered hwish support. It's actually a cool mon to use rn since it can do something to aegi while still pressuring the tapus. Rocks 3 attacks lando i gave me a secondary aegi killer (this mons so dumb) and a ground immune. The rest of the team is self explanatory. I just added pheromosa cus fight spam w cm lele and volt turn seemed cool. This team helped me win r1 of the tour

Zardx+Tapu Bulu HO

Hide

Nihilego @ Focus Sash
Ability: Beast Boost
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 1 Atk / 30 SpA / 30 SpD
- Stealth Rock
- Power Gem
- Sludge Wave
- Hidden Power [Ground]

Charizard-Mega-X @ Charizardite X
Ability: Tough Claws
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Dragon Dance
- Dragon Claw
- Flare Blitz
- Roost

Tapu Bulu @ Choice Band
Ability: Grassy Surge
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Horn Leech
- Superpower
- Stone Edge
- Wood Hammer

Starmie @ Life Orb
Ability: Analytic
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Hydro Pump
- Thunderbolt
- Ice Beam
- Rapid Spin

Aegislash @ Leftovers
Ability: Stance Change
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Atk / 252 SpA
Rash Nature
- Shadow Ball
- Flash Cannon
- Shadow Sneak
- King's Shield

Landorus-Therian @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Earthquake
- U-turn
- Knock Off
- Explosion

I saw someone mention zardx+tapu bulu as a core which seemed really fun since ive been wanting to build with bulu. There was no real thought process for the team, I just put the core, picked a lead rocker (nihilego sucks use anything else), threw on aegi, a spinner, and a glue mon+speed control in the form of scarf lando.

Zardy+Hoopa

Hide

Genesect @ Choice Band
Ability: Download
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Hasty Nature
- U-turn
- Iron Head
- Extreme Speed
- Ice Beam

Hoopa-Unbound @ Choice Specs
Ability: Magician
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Dark Pulse
- Psyshock
- Focus Blast
- Trick

Aegislash @ Leftovers
Ability: Stance Change
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Atk / 252 SpA
Rash Nature
- King's Shield
- Shadow Ball
- Flash Cannon
- Shadow Sneak

Tapu Fini @ Leftovers
Ability: Misty Surge
EVs: 248 HP / 196 Def / 64 Spe
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Scald
- Dazzling Gleam
- Ice Beam
- Defog

Charizard-Mega-Y @ Charizardite Y
Ability: Drought
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Fire Blast
- Solar Beam
- Focus Blast
- Roost

Garchomp @ Rocky Helmet
Ability: Rough Skin
EVs: 248 HP / 164 Def / 96 Spe
Impish Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Earthquake
- Dragon Tail
- Toxic

Again, this team is supposed to be 'anti' anti-meta taking advantage of all the venu, toxapex whatever. I started with zardy+hoopa since most teams use speed control to deal w these balance breakers meaning they usually cant handle both. Now that i look at it, aegi should probably be pursuit but w.e. I wanted to try tapu lele as a defogger and i wasnt impressed, maybe it was just the match up but not being able to threaten out spikers and tspikers kinda sucks. Maybe I'll try latios over it since darks arent very common rn and idk if anyone is using pursuit aegis. Helmet chomp to get chip on various fast breakers and opposing speed control.

Mawile+Duggy

Hide

Mawile-Mega @ Mawilite
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 148 HP / 252 Atk / 108 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Play Rough
- Iron Head
- Sucker Punch
- Baton Pass

Dugtrio @ Choice Band
Ability: Arena Trap
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Earthquake
- Stone Edge
- Sucker Punch
- Memento

Pheromosa @ Expert Belt
Ability: Beast Boost
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Naive Nature
- High Jump Kick
- U-turn
- Poison Jab
- Ice Beam

Aegislash @ Leftovers
Ability: Stance Change
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Atk / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- Shadow Ball
- Flash Cannon
- Shadow Sneak
- King's Shield

Landorus-Therian @ Leftovers
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpD
Impish Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Earthquake
- U-turn
- Knock Off

Latios @ Soul Dew
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Draco Meteor
- Psychic
- Defog
- Recover

I quickly built this team when i saw user Iloveleague mention his undefeated stall team. I played it yesterday and it was disgusting so on the off chance we get paired, i wanted to be ready. BP mawile lures in aegi and toxapex for duggy while pheromosa can clean up very easily once theyre gone. The rest of the team is just standard glue stuff trying to cover most of the meta.

MVenusaur+Aegis

Hide

Venusaur-Mega @ Venusaurite
Ability: Thick Fat
EVs: 248 HP / 144 Def / 116 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 30 SpA / 30 Spe
- Giga Drain
- Sludge Bomb
- Hidden Power [Fire]
- Synthesis

Aegislash @ Leftovers
Ability: Stance Change
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Def / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- King's Shield
- Shadow Ball
- Flash Cannon
- Shadow Sneak

Landorus-Therian @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Earthquake
- U-turn
- Knock Off
- Explosion

Latios @ Soul Dew
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Draco Meteor
- Psychic
- Recover
- Defog

Tapu Koko @ Life Orb
Ability: Electric Surge
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 30 Def
- Thunderbolt
- Hidden Power [Ice]
- Grass Knot
- Dazzling Gleam

Pheromosa @ Expert Belt
Ability: Beast Boost
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Naive Nature
- High Jump Kick
- U-turn
- Poison Jab
- Ice Beam

Not much to say, mvenu sits on a lot of common teams while tapu koko and pheromosa just break everything. aegi, lati, lando are glue.

Other observations: I think tapu koko, bulu, and lele will be very good in that order. Koko has the speed to threaten every offensive team and the power to leave dents in bulkier ones. I've mainly been using 4 attacks LO (very good) and specs (ok) and ran into a cm 3 attacks one which destroyed me. +3 thunder does 70% to venusaur which is pretty ridiculous. Everyone's talked about how strong bulu is and how its defensive capabilities are, this mon is very good. I think lele is the most interesting one since it can run different sets like specs, cm 3 attacks, and Ive even seen people running scarf (i think scarf sucks). Psychic terrain blocking prio is a huuuuge asset for offensive teams not to mention its perfect neutral coverage and good coverage in general which allows it to pick its checks.

As for the ultra beasts, pheromosa is undeniably broken. Idk about kartana but please dont use scarf on it lol. It is strong and has a nice speed tier for a scarfer but its movepool is so so so bad. I think the sd 3 attacks set makes for a nice breaker but overall it doesnt seem overwhelming for the tier as of now. Nihilego sucks because despite its nice stats, it cant really use em cus it doesnt have the moves. Necrozma is also a cool mon but also a hoopa wannabe. It's not that strong and has a shitty typing for something relatively slow. It has ok coverage and can set rocks but cant touch dark types without hp fight or brick break. Mixed sets might be a thing since it has a usable attack stat. I havent used xurkitree yet but i saw it 2hko a chansey with tbolt at +3 sooo

Anyway, Im looking forward to playing this cool meta once aegi goes. Right now the only appeal are the new toys but aegi just isnt fun to play against. Once it goes, im looking forward to building with the dragon/fighting dude, sd lycanrock, and magearna.

 

[latinoheat]

Yeah Tapu Koko with Zap Plate and Bolt/Volt Switch/Dazzling Gleam/Grass Knot is pretty impressive, early volt turns and powerful enough to clean up late game.

 

[QuickBH]

I can say without a shadow of a doubt that all of the fairy guardians are freaking insane.

 

[skies]

Genuine question: will Kangaskhanite be looked at?

 

[astroshagger]

Has Talonflame pretty much fallen from grace?

I don't see why anyone would use it..

 

[lordkira]

Has Talonflame pretty much fallen from grace?

I don't see why anyone would use it..

Im not liking it. The gale wing nerf was huge.
I'm not seeing anyone use it anymore either...