Could one of the tiering leaders write up a short explanation that details why some mons were unbanned and some not? Why was Mega Kangaskhan passed over? Why was Genesect unbanned, of all things?
I'm happy that Mega Mawile is back though.
Sure!
Blaziken and Mega Blaziken were determined to be too powerful for the OU metagame as the former has been in the past two generations to a fairly blatant extent and the latter was last generation, too. The fact that they're both already very capable attackers and sweepers on both sides of the spectrum in conjunction with one of the best abilities for offensive Pokemon of this nature -- Speed Boost -- makes it so that both of these Pokemon are too much for the OU metagame in the eyes of the council as there is minimal defensive counterplay, especially when it comes to counterplay that would be viable on offensive teams as you cannot revenge kill Blaziken w/ a faster Pokemon/scarf user due to Speed Boost making them quicker, Talonflame is no longer viable, and a majority of priority moves not being very effective against Blaziken.
Darkrai's Dark Void now only hits 50% of the time, which is a noteworthy nerf. With this said, it is still fast, strong, versatile to an extent, and very much capanle of being a menace in terms of overall offensive presence. The council determined that it would be ideal if Darkrai to start in Ubers, but nobody is 100% ruling out the return of Darkrai (via a retest) at a later point in time, perhaps when the metagame is settled, but only time shall tell. For now, it is best that Darkrai resides in Ubers due to the aforementioned.
Deoxys-A and Deoxys were pretty universally agreed upon as Ubers, but Deoxys-S and Deoxys-D lingered in OU last generation and were worth discussing. Deoxys-S and Deoxys-D have been dropped into OU the past two (maybe three? idk, I wasn't around way back then) generations and the general consensus of council members was that they were quite clearly banworthy back then and that there was very little reason, if any, that this would change during generation seven and, therefore, it would be completely unnecessary for either of these Pokemon to start in OU this generation.
Mega Gengar was blatantly broken due to Shadow Tag in conjunction with the Speed, Special Attack, and movepool that it had at its disposal. There was no doubt here from anyone that Shadow Tag and all it brought to the table was too much for any OU metagame and that should go without saying.
Mega Kanga, which I do touch on below in some depth (as I started this section of the post afterwards and I want to keep that in there for the sake of the poster who I'm quoting), did get Parental Bond nerfed, which makes it going back to OU a legitimate prospect. With this said, it still has 200 damage Seismic, a strong array of attacks, and enough going for it overall that the council believed that it was best to start in Ubers, but perhaps fall back into the OU tier later on via a retest if we deemed it was worthwhile once the metagame settled.
Mega Lucario was pretty insane last generation and I think there was communal agreement on the fact that this thing was far too good for OU back then and the combination of speed, power, and ability upon mega evolving with new mega mechanics makes it not worth dropping into OU because it's far too good.
Lunala and Solgaleo were the only SM Pokemon the council determined were good enough to be sent straight to Ubers. Both of them were incredibly strong and good given what we knew about them and we believed that it would be in the best interest of the tier to start them in Ubers as opposed to OU.
Mega Salamence was OU for a very brief stint and will never grace the OU tier again given how potent it was.
Shaymin-Sky is far too fast, (practically speaking) strong/offensively effective due to movepool and serene grace, and generally problematic to let back into the OU tier, so it will be in Ubers.
In regards to what we dropped down...
Aegislash was very split and controversial and I will get on to my personal opinion on it in the tier at length later on in this post, but we decided to let it start in OU because it was only out for one generation and there was a chance that it wouldn't be nearly as bad this generation as it was deemed to be last. Therefore, we believed that it was for the best that it was given the benefit of the doubt due to us not wanting to potentially overlook what could be a legitimate addition to the tier. This was contested and there were two sides to it, but it's currently in the tier and lots of attention is being given to it, so rest easy if you're worried about it.
Genesect was deemed banworthy the past two generations, but it spent a substantial amount of time in the OU tier throughout each of them and we didn't want to necessarily be pre-mature with relegating it to Ubers because of this, especially since there are at least a handful of decent checks/counters from past generations out there that are somewhat viable, but it was still somewhat controversial and it will be looked into closely now that it's in the tier.
Greninja was deemed banworthy at the start of ORAS when it got an expanded movepool (Low Kick, Gunk Shot, etc.), but it was only usable and banned in one generation and it made it through half of it without a suspect or ban, despite having a lesser movepool, so the council believed it deserved to start in OU and we will pay attention to it.
Hoopa-Unbound was only introduced and, eventually, banned from OU during the mid-late stages of ORAS and it would be entirely pre-mature to start it in Ubers because it wasn't that ridiculous, despite insane offensive presence, as it had some factors holding it back such as speed and physical bulk, so we will start it in OU and monitor it.
Landorus lingered in OU despite having Sheer Force for a fair amount of time in generation five and it also lasted for a while in generation six, but it got banned in both. With that said, we determined that it was not overpowering to the extent that it should simply start out banned this generation as there is some counterplay out there that's very much viable, so we started it in OU to see if it happened to be more reasonable this generation, which we will keep an eye on.
Mega Mawile was very strong last generation and it was banned after some time, but with things like Toxapex now in the tier and other walls like Landorus-T and Mega Scizor potentially being troublesome, we determined that it wouldn't be too crazy in the tier and that we should drop it for the start and then gauge how it was in the new metagame seeing as it was only banned once in the past and there are things now holding it back that weren't there or weren't as common previously.
Mega Sableye was barely banned in a controversial suspect last generation, Prankster was nerfed, and it is in no way overpowering to any extent, so it was easily agreed upon as something that should drop back into the OU tier.
Soul Dew was nerfed to only boost Psychic and Dragon by 1.2, so it in no way was banworthy.
Swagger and confusion in general were nerfed this generation and, therefore, we believed that it should be retested.
TDK is thoroughly enjoying Swagger being allowed as it is the only strategy he can employ that might have a chance at actually winning games. Sadly, for him, that chance is now down from 50% per confusion to 33%!
Hope that clarifies everything for you and everyone else wondering why we decided upon things in the fashion that we did. For those who haven't seen, the
banlist is here for SM OU!
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Genuine question: will Kangaskhanite be looked at?
It's certainly not 100% locked in the Ubers tier for the entirety of this generation, but right now the council believes that it is best off starting in the Ubers tier and we will not be retesting anything until we have rid the tier of everything banworthy in the first place, if we happen to at all.
After the Live Tour and doing some laddering/spectating, I've got some observations!
Aegislash is still as ridiculous as it seemed from the start. Surprise surprise. With the presence of King's Shield, a strong Ghost STAB, the shield and blade forms and their convenience, and the overall impact of the defensive typing w/ the bulk of the shield form, Aegislash is not only broken, but it's unhealthy and incredibly restrictive on the growth and development of the new metagame. I think focusing on the fact that it's broken/unhealthy is more important to analyzing how it might slow-down the metagame because those are conventional means of determining that something is banworthy and we never really tier for the sake of restricting things/unrestricting them (or if we do, it ties more directly into a root cause of being unhealthy -- basically, let's look at this like any other Pokemon we would suspect). The counters are really few and far between - Mandibuzz is non-existent, AV Tang works, most dark types don't appreciate flash cannon/sacred sword (but they're usually quicker and can come in on Shadow ball once or twice, so they can be counterplay), and there's not much else that you really have seen much in the early stages (sure, there's more that will become common and the metagame is yet to unravel, but those things aren't exactly the best at countering Aegi either if history proves itself correct). Additionally, the nature of Aegislash in general simply isn't very healthy thanks to King's Shield in conjunction with the form changing ability -- any Pokemon with such a unique typing and solid STAB can abuse this to the extent that it'd be controversial and Aegislash does it incredibly well. All in all considered, Aegislash is the biggest, or at least one of the biggest, threats in the tier and it's certainly banworthy.
Pheromosa is incredibly overpowering to the extent that you either have 1 of the 2 checks or you probably are losing a Pokemon to it. It is essentially an offensive Deoxys form in terms of Speed and Attacking stats and then it also gets STAB u-turn and enough coverage to get by against everything bar Aegislash, which will find its way out, and Toxapex. Obviously, having such limited counterplay inherently restricts teambuilding and is unhealthy for the tier. On a more direct note, this makes Pheremosa quite broken. I mean, really, it has 137/137/151 offensive stats w/ HJK, U-turn, Focus Blast, and Bug Buzz as legitimately good STABs on both sides of the spectrum and then it gets Ice Beam to hit Lando-T/Gliscor and PJab to hit fairy types (it 2HKOs or OHKOs all of them because Pheromosa is so ridiculously strong). The only thing stopping it from essentially running the tier right now is the fact that Aegislash is one of the few things more common than it and Aegislash walls it to hell and back thanks to its typing and bulk. In addition, Beast Boost makes it essentially incapable of being revenge killed by non-priority when facing offense as, once it gets a kill, nothing outpaces base 151 speed at +1 in terms of choice scarf users or normal revenge killers. Overall, this thing is blatantly broken.
Landorus is still (probably)
too good for OU. I mean I guess this was fairly predictable seeing how strong it is w/ Sheer Force and how it has done in the OU metagame for the past two generations, but there are very few, if any, actual counters to it being used right now while it is overwhelming everything it hits offensively, more or less. There's a very slight degree of 4MSS on the SR (or RP) variants, but that's far from the end of the world considering it still hits a vast majority of things in the tier. I don't know if this is good enough necessarily to go immediately from the tier, but I can't see it staying for incredibly long, to be quite honest, unless some form of legitimate, consistent counterplay pops up beyond just one check/counter you find occasionally here and there (see: random Zapdos/Mandibuzz/SDef Rotom-W). Overall, Landorus is pretty much the epitome of 'broken' by the definition of the word -- there's limited counterplay, it hits very hard to the extent that it overpowers a fair amount traditional pivots/walls (but there aren't many "walls" being used currently, bar the few stall teams here and there, which are noteworthy to an extent), and it makes you either face being vulnerable to it or running one of a few, potentially blatantly inconvenient Pokemon in order to keep it in check.
Tapu Koko is very strong and potentially overpowering, but it's still a bit early to pass conclusive judgement on it. Electric Terrain, being summoned immediately by the ability Electric Surge, makes it incredibly hard-hitting w/ STAB electric moves and then there's coverage (HP Ice mainly although GK is viable and ofc STAB DGleam is fine, too, but not as common as HP Ice in my observations. Also, Brave Bird hits AV Tang and Mega Venu surprisingly hard off of solid Atk). I have seen it do so well on a consistent basis so far w/ CM, Specs, and LO sets, pretty much, but it's still fairly raw and the defensive counterplay of the metagame that might come into play vs it is pretty much Mega Venu, the occasional AV Tang, and the rare Hippo, which is at least something, so maybe the metagame will adapt well to it in the coming days, but it's definitely something that will be controversial and worth keeping an eye on as time elapses.
Genesect is, once again, a top tier thread and has potential to be banworthy. I mean it's been the powerhouse, conventionally broken Pokemon of the past two generations, more or less. It has an insane movepool with download and great offensive stats (only held back a bit by base 99 speed thanks to Espeed and solid defensive typing). I thought it might struggle to gain traction initially because everything else around it was quicker, but strong Espeed, being a fairy resist w/ 'decent' (not glass cannon level, at least) natural bulk, and having pretty much everything at its disposal ranging from U-turn to mixed breaking coverage, it is just as potent as ever, pretty much. I'm not sure if it's one of the top 2-3 Pokemon in the tier or simply among the top tier of like a dozen Pokemon because it's truly hard to gauge specifics at this point, but, outside of Heatran, Mantine, Pelipper, and Toxapex (it doesn't run TBolt 90% of the time @ last 3), there aren't many counters to it at all, but there are a few situational checks such as Aegislash and various physical walls can potentially check the banded variant, I suppose. With that said, it is versatile and can really screw a team over in the long haul or devastate a team in the short-term depending on the match-up and Genesect variant. I reckon that those who are unsure about Genesect's strength in the current metagame will find it to be as I describe it above moreso when balance and bulky variants develop in the metagame as I've been using more bulky teams throughout the past day than the average player and I've truly noticed the devestating nature of Genesect as a Pokemon in the metagame as a byproduct of this and observing others counterplay to it when using non-HO teams. With that said though, Genesect isn't even one-dimensional in terms of effectiveness -- it can do work against offense w/ Espeed or a free turn/pivot if played well, but that's cutting into more specifics and I'll avoid that for the time being. Overall, my point is that Genesect is very good and everyone should keep an eye on it.
Celesteela, Toxapex, and Mantine are three new or newly buffed Pokemon that are playing a significant defensive role in the metagame that are worth noting. Not because of being banworthy - no, not at all. They're noteworthy because they're all so good right now as defensive pivots or blanket checks/counters to a plethora of common Pokemon in the current metagame. Celesteela has a typing like that of Skarmory, but it provides an actual offensive presence (HSlam, Flame, EQ, etc.), Beast Boost for SDef if it happens to get a kill, Leech Seed, etc.. Toxapex is the wall that we've all dreamed to have in one way or another over the years - counter to so many things out there ranging from Genesect to Pheromosa to Zard-Y while also having support moves like TSpikes and Haze and Regenerator. Finally, Mantine has been around for many generations, but it finally got Roost (!!!) and a noteworthy buff in overall bulk, making it a nice sponge to many common threats in the tier and a very viable Defog user.
Mega Venu is probably one of the most convenient Pokemon/megas to use right now. It makes sense due to all of the fairies being added to the metagame, but, more specifically, it functions as a check to Tapu Koko, which there are very few of. Overall, Mega Venu lost steam later in ORAS, but it certainly regained some viability here due to it being an anti-meta pick of some sort that has scaled up in popularity over the first day or so of SM. I expect to see it linger in the spotlight for a while, but potentially die down as some bans on things it might be checking come into play. Only time will tell, though!
I think this is all I have to say right now in terms of big observations, but I will be back to say more in the near future and I hope everyone is having lots of fun playing of the tier so far! :D
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