M&M Mix and Mega Resources

Why is gira only C when it walls every support arc Except fairy, gene, Pdon, Raikou, goli, Terrak, blissey, Kartana, zapdos, every koko set except altariate, keldeo, some entei set and etc.
I know it's lack of reliable recovery hurts it's viability, but with such an amazing bulk and typing, rest is good enough. Rest also eliminates status, which just helps it shit on bulky walls even more with pressure.
It's better than it's shit clone, so at least B would be nice for now
Cresseila and Mimikyu in B-? This has to be a joke. After the marshadow ban bulky setup has gotten way better. Cresseila sets up on so much and is so hard to stop, it deserves to be way higher than stuff like kyorge and excadrill. Cresseila B- -> B+.
Mimikyu is great on offensive teams. It gets a free sd before mega evolving and now there are even less mons to outspeed and threaten it. It stops a sweep and then threatens to destroy your opponent in return. Mimikyu B- -> B
Entei A- -> B+. This thing faces a lot of competition from Zygarde and in no way deserves to be higher than genesect, which gets shift gear and download pre-mega. Sacred Fire is nice, but relying on howl as a setup move is a huge deterrent.
Suicune UR -> C+ Aggronite Suicune is really good, water/steel is a nice typing renderring suicune immune to toxic, while filter makes it really hard to break. Rest CM is solid, and deserves a mention in the viability rankings.
Agree with this a lot
 
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Why is gira only C when it walls every support arc Except fairy, gene, Pdon, Raikou, goli, Terrak, blissey, Kartana, zapdos, every koko set except altariate, keldeo, some entei set and etc.
I know it's lack of reliable recovery hurts it's viability, but with such an amazing bulk and typing, rest is good enough. Rest also eliminates status, which just helps it shit on bulky walls even more with pressure.
It's better than it's shit clone, so at least B would be nice for now

Agree with this a lot
Also, you didn’t mention that Giratina’s main threat that caused it to be less good has now been recently banned from holding Stones. This makes it a lot better than it was during the Marshadow meta. I support Giratina for B
 
Entei A- -> B+. This thing faces a lot of competition from Zygarde and in no way deserves to be higher than genesect, which gets shift gear and download pre-mega. Sacred Fire is nice, but relying on howl as a setup move is a huge deterrent.
I disagree with this. Entei has much better bulk and a better defensive typing, making it harder to revenge kill (especially by Weavile, the usual bane of -atespeeders' existences) and easier to set up with. Shift Gear Genesect is a bad set because Genesect gets 0 opportunities to set up and it's better run as a mixed attacker anyway. Also, using Howl isn't as much as a deterrent as you might think because most of your attacks will either be Extreme Speed or on slow walls.

Why is gira only C when it walls every support arc Except fairy, gene, Pdon, Raikou, goli, Terrak, blissey, Kartana, zapdos, every koko set except altariate, keldeo, some entei set and etc.
GIRATINA WALLS BLISSEY AND ORB USERS A++++++++++ NOW

it's better than it's shit clone
it's shit clone can actually work on balance teams sometimes
 
GIRATINA WALLS BLISSEY AND ORB USERS A++++++++++ NOW



it's shit clone can actually work on balance teams sometimes
by walling blissey, i meant that it doesnt get shit on by it, unlike other walls, and both forms can work on balance. blissey and other support arc forms can work on balance even tho they arent offensive mons. apply the same logic to gira.. know ur stuff before trying to make some shitty comments
 
Cresseila and Mimikyu in B-? This has to be a joke. After the marshadow ban bulky setup has gotten way better. Cresseila sets up on so much and is so hard to stop, it deserves to be way higher than stuff like kyorge and excadrill. Cresseila B- -> B+.
Mimikyu is great on offensive teams. It gets a free sd before mega evolving and now there are even less mons to outspeed and threaten it. It stops a sweep and then threatens to destroy your opponent in return. Mimikyu B- -> B
Entei A- -> B+. This thing faces a lot of competition from Zygarde and in no way deserves to be higher than genesect, which gets shift gear and download pre-mega. Sacred Fire is nice, but relying on howl as a setup move is a huge deterrent.
Suicune UR -> C+ Aggronite Suicune is really good, water/steel is a nice typing renderring suicune immune to toxic, while filter makes it really hard to break. Rest CM is solid, and deserves a mention in the viability rankings.
While cresselia does benefit from the removal of marshadow, additional major threats have surfaced to take its place as cresselia headaches. Magearna is better than ever, and There's been an increase in other setup sweepers that give Cresselia troubles. Between the buffs to Volcarona, Xurkitree, Gengar, Lunala and Thundurus, the number of of viable offensive pokemon that give Cresselia trouble has greatly increased. It also faces stone competition on defensive teams, as runnign sablenite means that you can't have it in blissey or magearna. It's also exceedingly passive for a setup sweeper, as it needs to be at +5 to even 2hko offensive Primal Groudon, so many of these pokemon are actually able to switch in on Cresselia. If this wasn't bad enough, it doesn't function as a wincon against stall thanks to being walled by Blissey and Magearna, and its lack of recovery PP greatly hurts its longevity. In most matches, all cresselia will be doing is functioning as a damage sponge, which can be useful but isn't enough to make more relevant than Thundurus or Ho-Oh.

Entei is significantly more viable than genesect is, as while both are physical -atespeed users entei's typing allows it to take on Zygarde while still functioning adequately as a revenge killer on its own merits. Sacred Fire, Like scald, is excelletn for wearing down pokemon like support arceus that want ot repeatedly switch in. Genesect's main niches are (potential) single use higher direct power and an increase of coverage options, but these are more than made up for by its lack of a useful secondary stab and awful postmega typing. If Techno Blast behaved like it did in Gen 6, genesect would still be effective, but that is simply not the case.

Suicune is beaten by every A+ and S ranked Pokemon, in addition to being hardwalled by Primal groudon. It can also be readily forced out by numerous lower Pokemon, and its inability to break blissey, when combined with its low speed stat and exploitable defensive typing, means it doesn't function as a win condition versus any playstyle without significant team support. Suicune hasn't been used on a succesful team since nearly the beginning of the metagame.
Why is gira only C when it walls every support arc Except fairy, gene, Pdon, Raikou, goli, Terrak, blissey, Kartana, zapdos, every koko set except altariate, keldeo, some entei set and etc.
I know it's lack of reliable recovery hurts it's viability, but with such an amazing bulk and typing, rest is good enough. Rest also eliminates status, which just helps it shit on bulky walls even more with pressure.
It's better than it's shit clone, so at least B would be nice for now

Agree with this a lot
Giratina does not beat Tapu Koko; even leaving aside Electric Terrain blocking Rest, Tapu Koko needs Dazzling Gleam in order to take on Zygarde and thus carries that to 2hko. Giratina will also lose to either Terrakion or Keldeo; if it's dragon tail, sub Terrakion wisn, while taunt keldeo turns roar into setup bait. I'm also not usper certain why you mention Zapdos and Blissey, since they aren't really offensive Pokemon that you need to wall but I suppose that too. FTR though this isn't actually me being against a raise, just want to clarify a few things.
I disagree with this. Entei has much better bulk and a better defensive typing, making it harder to revenge kill (especially by Weavile, the usual bane of -atespeeders' existences) and easier to set up with. Shift Gear Genesect is a bad set because Genesect gets 0 opportunities to set up and it's better run as a mixed attacker anyway. Also, using Howl isn't as much as a deterrent as you might think because most of your attacks will either be Extreme Speed or on slow walls.



GIRATINA WALLS BLISSEY AND ORB USERS A++++++++++ NOW



it's shit clone can actually work on balance teams sometimes
Mixed Genesect is actually bad. Since techno Blast is unnafected by -ate, it's foced to rely on on its other movepool, which is either weak (Ice beam, flamethrower) or terribly typed (bug buzz). Genesect should generally be running Uturn, Extreme Speed, Explosion, and a coverage option such as flamethrower, although it's not entirely limited to this and 8can* use stuff like shift gear to remove Tapu lele and similar.
 
The VR from this point is fairly good (although that's because IT11 supposedly based his votes on my preliminary VR), but there are a few nitpicks I'd like to make.

Section 1: Explaining New Nominations

Personally, there are a few nominations that I can meet half-way on, but I see a lack of reasoning for moving them up from where they previously were. Here's a list of what Pokemon I think might have been misadjusted:

Arceus-Ground: from A to A+

This was something I found initially confusing to begin with. Yes, I understand that it counters the majority of PDon variants, and also happens to be a great check to Red Orb users (despite being unable to switchin). Its support movepool definitely says something about it... but I never saw it any further than A. So why has it moved up? What new utilities has it gained that makes it better than it was post-Marshadow metagame? Is it due to a lack of Pokemon in A+?

Xerneas: from A- to A

I also want to know what changed in the new meta that let this rise. I didn't really find much evidence to suggest that it was worth moving up to A, as Marshadow, whilst threatening it, needed to be played well in order to defeat it. However, the rise of Magearna to A+ should tell that Xerneas is not as potent as people may think it is, due to the majority of Magearnas packing the movepool to counter Xerneas, due to how much of a threat it is in teambuilding. However, this does not exempt it from its previous ranking.

I'll meet midway with Cresselia - but I don't know why it was put down so much. I get Magearna is common and that competely counters non Red Orb variants (which are bad, by the way), but based on how you raised Xerneas, surely Cresselia didn't deserve too harsh of a drop? I'll request to move it to B if community input suggests so.
Why Vaporeon was still kept I don't know. I think I need a bit more reasoning before I can believe that it has a niche in the current metagame.

Section 2: New Viability Rankings Nominations

Keldeo:
from B to B+

Keldeo is making a splash in the tier at the moment as being one of the best Fighting-type wallbreakers in the metagame, holding feats that no other Fighting-type can do. The first adjustment is that Keldeo can 2HKO all Arceus formes if not specially invested. This makes it a considerable threat to balance, especially when it beats the most common Sablenite user (whilst not OHKOing it, it threatens and forces it out.) Taunt sets can shut down walls after the Sablenite stone has been revealed - for example, Toxapex is able to fully counter Keldeo if it doesn't carry Taunt or it isn't Sablenite - however, Latiasite sets cannot deal with it. Calm Mind Keldeo sets can also pull through with a bit more power if Secret Sword is not desired - however, this loses the immediate 2HKO on Blissey, allowing it to potentially get off enough damage with Seismic Toss or stall out poison with Toxic + Softboiled. It's very frightening to try to switch into, and that's what makes Keldeo worthy of the same B+ ranking that Raikou holds.

(lol jk wall of calcs coming later)
(also why tf does secret sword have to be the less memorable name I keep getting the two mixed up J:)

Jirachi: from Unranked to B-

Jirachi is the other option for a versatile Steel-type over Magearna, and whilst it might not be able to deal with Tapu Lele and Deo-S as well, it is able to pull out many more utility options that Magearna cannot, such as set Stealth Rocks in the face of Magic Bounce and spread status. It also has access to Healing Wish, allowing it to fit on more offensive playstyles. It also gets access to U-Turn, which is advantageous for momentum, and not blockable by the various Ground-types in the tier. It can also run Wish for itself and obtain reliable recovery, but it finds it very difficult to fit both Wish and Protect into the same moveset, and it allows what it needs to check to set up on it.
Section 3: Potential Nominations

Here are some nominations I might consider. I think I'll need more evidence for these as I go along, but here is what I believe could change:

Mandibuzz: B to B-
I personally don't understand why Mandibuzz is B anyway. It happens to lose quite easily to offensive pressure - more importantly, it loses to the most common Stealth Rock user, Groudon-Primal, which can burn it with Lava Plume and make its Foul Plays lack damage. Furthermore, the influx of Fairies into the tier has made it alike to Yveltal - its effectiveness is severely decreased due to -atespeed and physical threats it could originally check before.

(My next discussions will probably be about Gengar and Hippowdon.)

Section 4: Agreements/Disagreements

Giratina: C
to B: I think this is a bit overblown, but I can see this happening. It's a great wall, and it's able to take a large amount of hits, but I see it being way to passive to even compare with some of the better walls you could use. It's often setup bait for some of the most threatening mons in the tier, however, this is mainly limited to special attackers, something that Blissey can take on if it's in a core. I personally think B- is a bit better for this due to its more specialized role, but its similarities with Giratina-O cannot be ignored, and so I think it is worthy of being risen.

I have neutral feelings about Mimikyu. Never seen Diancite because it's too weak for my teams, but I could see it possibly rising. However, I don't think it is worthy of rising, despite having lacking evidence that your nomination could be more effective.

Entei: A- to B+: I could see this happening, but alike to Mimikyu, I'm not convinced. However, looking at calculations versus common glues like Supportceus do indicate that Entei isn't too strong of a Pokemon at the moment. Split on this one.

Suicune, however, I need a lot more evidence for using. Why you wouldn't use it over Kyogre-Primal confuses me - despite the lower defense, Kyogre-Primal is a far better bulky Water-type that seriously threatens bulkier teams, and is, to be quite honest, rather underrated in the metagame at the moment. Kyogre-Primal personally deserves to go to B, but I think there are better and more important nominations that I think need to happen first.

However, I might be misrepresenting its role. Please do tell me its niche if I have been, I honestly don't know what I'm expecting from it.

Section 5: Stone Misplacements

There are some stones which I feel have been omitted or placed badly on this VR. Here's what I'd do to change it:

Toxapex greatly prefers Latiasite over Sablenite - this was partly the reason it rose to the point where it was today as it can stall out Groudon-Primal with Recover + Haze if it needs to. (Proposed change: Latiasite, Sablenite, Gyaradosite)

Volcarona is missing a mention on Cameruptite, its primary stone. This isn't to mean that Red Orb is bad - both fit on teams just as well, but Cameruptite, in my opinion, makes Volcarona a terrifying threat for just about any team with its boosted Fire Blasts and Psychic to hit Toxapex. (Proposed change: Cameruptite, Red Orb)

Hippowdon is missing the mention of Venusaurite, which makes it a utiliarian check to some of the most threatening wallbreakers in the tier, such as Raikou. (Proposed change: Sablenite, Venusaurite)

Gyarados can also use Salamencite over Pinsirite if it desires to abuse its access to Intimidate over a bit more power. (Proposed change: Pinsirite, Salamencite, Altarianite)

Section 6: Recent Discoveries

A recent discovery has shown that Genesect should never have been able to use -ate boosted Techno Blasts in the first place. This, of course, is detrimental to its overall viability, and may be pushed down an entire rank in the future. Its main niche as an -atespeeder has gone, because it was never meant to be there in the first place.
 
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Techno Blast doesn't get -ate boosts? strange.

alright, that was bad faith so I'll lay out the reasons I actually think Giratina belongs in C/C+:
  • it can't work on offense teams because much like Chansey in OU it's incredibly difficult to switch out of, since it can't provide any offensive pressure or momentum. Giratina-O is much better here because as offensive utility it can be one of the best non-passive defoggers available - it can dragon tail to annoy switchins (which unlike Roar or Giratina's Dragon Tail does some damage), shadow sneak to clean, or use shadow force to damage things.
  • it can't work on balance teams because, in addition to the reason above, it's also quite frail for Mix and Mega. Despite its good defensive stats, it can't use one side to wall attackers in the way Hippowdon or Blissey can, and its defensive typing doesn't let it muscle past much. This is made even worse because 2HKOing is worrying for Giratina, having no reliable recovery (Tapu Koko 2HKOs). Giratina-O can be used sometimes, because it runs a completely different set where it can use its movepool and stats/griseous orb to threaten some stuff.
  • it can work a little bit on stall teams because there are few good defoggers for it and because Heal Bell + Rest gives you some form of recovery, but it still has issues to deal with, especially the now very popular Altarianite users. It also suffers from the same problem as support Arceus and most other stall defoggers such as supportceus, which is that it's a bit of a loose end - because it's not as good at walling things ad infinitum it can be randomly killed more easily, leaving you with a 5-mon stall and a hazard weakness again
I also don't think "knowing ur stuff" and thinking being mutually stalled out is good are mutually required for each other, especially since Blissey wins if it comes down to PP stalling.
 
Techno Blast doesn't get -ate boosts? strange.

alright, that was bad faith so I'll lay out the reasons I actually think Giratina belongs in C/C+:
  • it can't work on offense teams because much like Chansey in OU it's incredibly difficult to switch out of, since it can't provide any offensive pressure or momentum. Giratina-O is much better here because as offensive utility it can be one of the best non-passive defoggers available - it can dragon tail to annoy switchins (which unlike Roar or Giratina's Dragon Tail does some damage), shadow sneak to clean, or use shadow force to damage things.
  • it can't work on balance teams because, in addition to the reason above, it's also quite frail for Mix and Mega. Despite its good defensive stats, it can't use one side to wall attackers in the way Hippowdon or Blissey can, and its defensive typing doesn't let it muscle past much. This is made even worse because 2HKOing is worrying for Giratina, having no reliable recovery (Tapu Koko 2HKOs). Giratina-O can be used sometimes, because it runs a completely different set where it can use its movepool and stats/griseous orb to threaten some stuff.
  • it can work a little bit on stall teams because there are few good defoggers for it and because Heal Bell + Rest gives you some form of recovery, but it still has issues to deal with, especially the now very popular Altarianite users. It also suffers from the same problem as support Arceus and most other stall defoggers such as supportceus, which is that it's a bit of a loose end - because it's not as good at walling things ad infinitum it can be randomly killed more easily, leaving you with a 5-mon stall and a hazard weakness again
I also don't think "knowing ur stuff" and thinking being mutually stalled out is good are mutually required for each other, especially since Blissey wins if it comes down to PP stalling.
it cant work on offensive teams cause its a wall lol. thats not a reason for it to not be B. gira-o is better for offensive teams ofc, while the other one is good for bulkier stuff
for ur second point, idk if u tryna troll or just dont really know how bulky gira is. Gira is one of the best mixed def pokemon in the game. in ur examples, u mentioned Hippo, so let me show u its stats with sab stone: 108/168/122. here is gira's: 150/120/120. Gira got the better special bulk, and its defensive isnt that much lower since it got a huge hp. it can also carry lefty, which is a huge +. yh its recovery is kinda lame, but it tanks physical hits for days, and can threaten MANY mons out with wisp, and therefore getting another turn for lefty to recover some health. since gira is so damn bulky, it would be a waste to have any offensive moves on it. Defog, status and phaze is jsut way too important and useful.
every mon has its weakness. just cause altarianite is a thing now, it doesnt mean its not a great wall.
i agree with the last part tho. but the stuff gira is supposed to come in on doesnt do that much of a damage like terrak, raikou, keldeo, goli, kartana, (pdon at times) and thats where lefty comes in. u have no idea how many times lefty alone gained my gira back up close to full health(i know i already mentioned this, but its an amazing item for a poke that got a base 150 hp).
btw there are many more good defogers out there, not just gira and arc
and no, blissey does not win a pp stall battle lol
anyone who played vs a nice defensive core with gira would agree on at least a B. idk why its all the way down at C lol
 
theres a few mons missing from the vr i think

salamence unranked -> c

largely outclassed by mons like zyg and lando-t, but roost gives it a niche. the set that it does better than anything else is aggronite dd+roost, which sets up on all kinds of stuff and hits hard after boosts. struggles a bit against common stuff like pdon and skarm, but its def better than a lot of the nonsense in c- lol

BULU unranked -> c+ at least

??? this mon is in the speed tiers and the threatlist but not the vr? im assuming this was an oversight but in any case: bulu has a bunch of viable sets, is one of the few good offensive switchins to zyg, and hits like a truck. its a very solid mon in the current meta and def deserves a rank

blaziken unranked -> c/c+

bad vs priority but still a very strong cleaner late game and very hard to switch into. struggles a lil bit in the current meta, but again its i think undeniably better than mons like vaporeon and solgaleo
 
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Suggested Changes to the Role Compendium

All percentages are based off of the 1760 usage stats for Mix and Mega. If A Pokemon is mentioned more than once on here, I will not repeat information that is included when it is first mentioned.

+Add
-Remove


Stealth Rock

Landorus-T

  • #17 most used on the ladder with approx. 7.9% usage (Raw: 5,058)
  • Stealth Rock is used on it exactly 14.8% of the time

Hippowdon

  • Surge in usage, jumping up to #60 most used with approx. 2.0% usage (Raw: 1,360)
  • Stealth Rock is used on it approx. 68.6% of the time

Mew

  • #21 most used on the ladder with approx. 6.5% usage (Raw: 6,709)
  • Stealth Rock is its most-used move with approx 39.3% usage

Shuckle

  • #19 most used on the ladder with approx. 6.8% usage (Raw: 4,298)
  • Stealth Rock is is its second-most-used move with approx. 95.7% usage

Excadrill

  • #36 most used on the ladder with approx. 3.6% usage (Raw: 2,254)
  • Stealth Rock is used on it approx. 61.8% of the time

Archeops

  • Despite its reasonably high ranking at #65 with approx. 1.7% usage, Archeops has such a small and unimportant niche that causes it to be easily outclassed
  • Not on Viability Ranking as a result
  • Its niche: Aerilate Stealth Rock setter, which is not even that good due to Archeops's dissatisfying bulk and case of four-moveslot syndrome as a result of role compression

Mamoswine

  • #92 most used on the ladder with approx 0.9% usage (Raw: 1,029)
  • Stealth Rock is used on it approx. 35.9% of the time
  • It's so uncommon that it isn't even on the Viability Ranking

Sticky Web

I think a Sticky Web section should be created due to the fact that Shuckle's raise in both usage and viability has caused Sticky Web to become a threat to prepare for.

Shuckle

  • Shuckle is the only ranked Pokemon that has access to and uses Sticky Web

Defog

Mew

  • Defog is used on it approx. 25.7% of the time

Mantine

  • Defog is used on it approx. 94.9% of the time
  • Despite its low 0.8% usage, Mantine is known purely for its defensive capabilities with access to Defog, Roost, Haze, and Toxic to annoy setup sweepers

Scizor

  • #73 most used on the ladder with approx. 1.2% usage (Raw: 1,719)
  • Outclassed by Skarmory in almost every role it performs, namely: Defogger, Blue Orb Steel-type
  • On top of that, Skarmory can perform roles that Scizor fails at: Entry hazard setter

Rapid Spin

Excadrill

  • Rapid Spin is used on it approx. 87.8% of the time

Starmie

  • With a staggeringly low usage being exactly the next least used after Mamoswine at #93, Starmie has approx. 0.8% usage and no distinct niche in the current metagame, which also caused it to become unranked

Priority

Tapu Koko

  • #12 most used on the ladder approx. 12.5% usage (Raw: 9,782)
  • Altarianite is the second-most-used item with approx. 9.4% usage
  • Pinsirite is used on it approx. 3.4% of the time
  • In total, Tapu Koko uses -ate stones approx. 12.8% of the time
  • Quick Attack is used on it approx. 12.8% of the time (wow it's almost like it uses Quick Attack with an every -ate stone)

Breloom

  • #69 most used on the ladder with approx. 1.4% usage (Raw: 3,406)
  • Banettite is the only viable stone on Breloom, giving it Prankster and therefore +1 priority Spore, Substitute, and Swords Dance
  • On top of that, Breloom runs Mach Punch, which already has +1 priority

Shedinja

  • #191 most used on the ladder with approx. 0.15% usage (Raw: 585)
  • Shadow Sneak is used on it approx. 94.1% of the time
  • Shedinja has a distinct niche in Wonder Guard

Arceus-Steel

  • #102 most used on the ladder with approx. 0.7% usage (Raw: 547)
  • Extreme Speed is used on it approx. 7.6% of the time

Rayquaza

  • #29 and #87 most used on the ladder with approx. 4.1% and 0.91% usage (Raw: 4,658 and 832) (w/ Dragon Ascent and w/o Dragon Ascent, respectively)
  • Extreme Speed is used on it approx. 82.3% and 44.8% of the time, respectively

Zygarde-10%

  • #201 most used on the ladder with approx. 0.12% usage (Raw: 457)
  • Zygarde-10% is a direct downgrade from Zygarde because:
    • Despite a higher Speed stat than Zygarde, Zygarde-10% lacks the bulk to properly perform the roles performed by regular Zygarde

Archeops

  • All required reasoning is listed above

Scizor

  • Scizor already sees such little use due to Skarmory outclassing it in most of its roles; on top of that, Metagross outclasses Scizor as a Bullet Punch user and shares a role with Skarmory that Scizor lacks in Stealth Rock setter

Lucario

  • Lucario is considered unviable compared to all of the other -ate Speed users due to a plethora of things, namely:
    • having the lowest base Speed out of it (90), Entei (100), Arcanine (95), Genesect (99), and Zygarde (95)
    • having the lowest bulk out of it (70 / 70 / 70), Entei (115 / 85 / 75), Arcanine (90 / 80 / 80), Genesect (71 / 95 / 95), and Zygarde (108 / 121 / 95)
    • having a worse pre-Mega ability than Arcanine (Intimidate) and Genesect (Download)
    • having the second-lowest Attack stat (base 110); Zygarde does have the lowest Attack, but it has Dragon Dance to patch that up and suitable bulk to support it
    • lacking a decent Attack- and Speed-boosting move (Zygarde + Dragon Dance, Genesect + Shift Gear)

Wish Support

Vaporeon

  • #179 most used on the ladder with approx. 0.2% usage (Raw: 639)
  • Wish is used on it approx. 63.8% of the time
  • Being a Wish passer is one of Vaporeon's main (and only) niches that keeps it on the Viability Ranking

Aromatherapy / Heal Bell

Vaporeon

  • Heal Bell is used on it approx. 32.3% of the time
  • Heal Bell is probably the only other niche that Vaporeon holds

Pursuit

Scizor

  • Outclassed in every other role it does
  • Other necessary reasoning already listed

Alolan Muk

  • #94 most used on the ladder with approx. 0.8% usage (Raw: 1,257)
  • Not common or viable enough in the current meta to be useful; It's too heavily threatened by Zygarde and Primal Groudon

Volt Switch/U-turn

Landorus-T

  • U-turn is used on it approx. 18.6% of the time

Genesect

  • #7 most used on the ladder with approx. 20.2% usage (Raw: 10,215)
  • U-turn is used on it approx. 53.5% of the time

Mandibuzz

  • U-turn is used on it approx. 79.5% of the time

Mew

  • U-turn is used on it approx. 12.5% of the time

Victini

  • #61 most used on the ladder with approx. 1.8% usage (Raw: 3,188)
  • U-turn is used on it approx. 27.3% of the time

Scizor

  • All needed information has already been listed

Z-Moves

Arceus-Poison

  • #72 most used on the ladder with approx. 1.2% usage (Raw: 348)
  • Its physical set uses Poisonium Z

Arceus-Steel

  • Its physical set uses Steelium Z

Zygarde-C

  • I can't get Zygarde-C's individual usage from TIBot
  • Groundium Z is used approx. 4.891% of the time

Solgaleo

  • #89 most used on the ladder with approx. 0.9% usage (Raw: 1,546)
  • Both Splash and Normalium Z are used on it approx. 46.6% of the time

Arceus

  • #76 most used on the ladder with approx. 1.1% usage (Raw: 1,698)
  • Life Orb Extreme Killer is the only viable set

Swords Dance

Rayquaza

  • Swords Dance is used on it approx. 26.9% of the time

Shedinja

  • Swords Dance is used on it approx. 76.2% of the time

Breloom

  • Swords Dance is used on it approx. 12.3% of the time

Arceus-Steel

  • Swords Dance is used on it approx. 9.2% of the time

Arceus-Poison

  • Swords Dance is used on it equally as much as Poisonium Z

Lucario

  • All required reasoning is listed above

Shift Gear

Klinklang

  • #91 most used on the ladder with approx. 0.9% usage (Raw: 900)
  • Outclassed by Metagross as a Pinsirite user

Dragon Dance

Rayquaza

  • Dragon Dance is used on it approx. 48.5% of the time

Zygarde-10%

  • All required reasoning is listed above

Rock Polish / Autotomize / Agility

Metagross

  • Rock Polish is used on it approx. 17.9% of the time
  • Agility is used on it approx. 5.1% of the time

Hoopa-U

  • Hoopa-U is so rarely seen nowadays that it has been deemed not rank-worthy on the VR. Even then, Agility is used so little on it that it's listed under "Other" in the usage stats

Nasty Plot

Deoxys-S

  • #5 most used on the ladder with approx. 22.6% usage (Raw: 9,019)
  • Nasty Plot is used on it approx. 33.4% of the time

Togekiss

  • Nasty Plot is used on it approx. 68.1% of the time

Mew

  • Nasty Plot is used on it approx. 22.7% of the time

Hoopa-U

  • All required information is listed above

Checks to Metagame Threats

I believe that this section will require a lot more elaborate community discussion.

Absolite

Tapu Koko, Xurkitree
  • Neither use Absolite anymore

Aerodactylite

Unviable stone used on an unviable Pokemon

Altarianite

Lucario
  • Uncommon and outclassed

Blue Orb

Scizor, Tapu Bulu
  • Both uncommon and either outclassed or unviable

Gyaradosite

Archeops
  • Uncommon and unimportant niche

Lucarionite

Lucario, Alolan Muk, Mamoswine
  • All uncommon, unviable, and/or outclassed

Metagrossite

Tapu Bulu
  • Unviable

Pinsirite

Lucario, Klinklang, Zygarde-10%, Archeops
  • All niche, uncommon, unviable, or outclassed

Sablenite

Milotic, Tapu Bulu
  • Uncommon, outclassed, and unviable

Salamencite

Archeops
  • etc

Stealth Rock
+

-


Sticky Web
+


Defog
+

-


Rapid Spin
+

-


Priority
+

-


Wish Support + Aromatherapy / Heal Bell
+


Pursuit
-


Volt Switch/U-turn
+

-


Z-Moves
+

-


Swords Dance
+

-


Shift Gear
-


Dragon Dance
+

-


Rock Polish / Autotomize / Agility
+

-


Nasty Plot
+

-


Absolite
-


Aerodactylite
- entire section

Altarianite
-


Blue Orb
-


Gyaradosite
-


Lucarionite
-


Metagrossite
-


Pinsirite
-


Sablenite
-


Salamencite
-


I don't think I've ever worked this hard on a post before.
 

thesecondbest

Just Kidding I'm First
Lucario

  • Lucario is considered unviable compared to all of the other -ate Speed users due to a plethora of things, namely:
    • having the lowest base Speed out of it (90), Entei (100), Arcanine (95), Genesect (99), and Zygarde (95)
    • having the lowest bulk out of it (70 / 70 / 70), Entei (115 / 85 / 75), Arcanine (90 / 80 / 80), Genesect (71 / 95 / 95), and Zygarde (108 / 121 / 95)
    • having a worse pre-Mega ability than Arcanine (Intimidate) and Genesect (Download)
    • having the second-lowest Attack stat (base 110); Zygarde does have the lowest Attack, but it has Dragon Dance to patch that up and suitable bulk to support it
    • lacking a decent Attack- and Speed-boosting move (Zygarde + Dragon Dance, Genesect + Shift Gear)

Shedinja

  • Swords Dance is used on it approx. 76.2% of the time
Mew

  • Nasty Plot is used on it approx. 22.7% of the time
Agree with almost all of what u said except these ones.
I don't know why you would use SD arceus steel or poison either, but I've literally never seen someone use it so maybe you have a point and it is a hidden gem.
Anyways, lucario definitely has a viable niche in mnm. It's so good it got banned last gen (don't agree with the ban but still) because of a few useful traits.
First, it is faster than entei because entei has to run adamant. Its bulk is pretty trash too but it has SD. This is something none of the other espeeders have. If you wanna break stall, lucario is that dude. I like pinsirite (the speed lets you outrun pinsirite entei and any altarianite espeeder) sd, cc, espeed and stone edge to hit zapdos. It isn't quite strong enough to kill mag or p-g at +2, but with hazards support it runs train. I agree that lucarionite lucario is shit though. And also, altarianite zygarde is the most common zygarde set so you outrun it too! not as good as zygarde, but might be better than the other espeeders, especially given the techno blast revelation.
SD shedinja is bad don't use it, it's a pivot not a sweeper. just run like wow protect shadow sneak toxic (on a groudon switchin)
I don't think nasty plot mew is great but maybe it breaks stall, i don't know. is it nasty roost zap blizzard? never seen it being used
but agree with the rest good post
 
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I’ve made a few personal discoveries whilst trying out some new Pokemon, and I have to say, some of them are really underrated at the moment.

Ho-oh from B to B+ (possibly A-?):

Ho-oh is an excellent bulky attacker with some amazing potential in the MnM tier, only held back by its 4x Stealth Rock weakness. However, this weakness is often overblown by users, and does not put into account the sheer amount of utility Ho-oh can add to a team. One point that makes Ho-oh almost unanimous over some other choices is the ability to consistently switch into both Arceus-Ground and Arceus-Fairy, and even if it does get crippled, its incredible ability in Regenerator allows for Ho-oh to shrug off Toxic damage quite easily. Speaking of which, it will most likely be carrying Toxic itself, mainly for Support Arceus that will attempt to stay in to wall it. This ability to cripple switchins with status and its combined bulk with Regenerator as well as a massive 106/154 special bulk makes it one of the better status spreaders in the game. Not to mention that Banded Ho-oh variants have the ability to 2HKO Sablenite Blissey after Stealth Rock, allowing it to bypass common Sablenite users. However – this makes status spreading difficult, as a misplay by the Ho-oh user will leave it locked into its move if it isn’t carrying a Life Orb – and Life Orb variants may not break Blissey even after Stealth Rock damage, and may have to turn to Sacred Fire burns. Speaking of which, Sacred Fire is another reason to use Ho-oh, as it cripples physical attackers, making them less ideal to switchin to Ho-oh – especially Pokemon such as Hippowdon and Mandibuzz, which have their other methods of dealing with their supposed checks nerfed, allowing other attackers to set up on them. Turning back to Ho-oh’s offensive prowess displays Ho-oh as an excellent wallbreaker of bulky offense teams, either 2hkoing those that are immune to its Sacred Fires or potentially disabling a threat on the opposing team. To finish this analysis off, if all of that wasn’t enough to justify B+, then bulky spreads of Ho-oh (see: Life Orb, Leftovers) can check all variants of Xerneas excluding the extremely rare Rock Slide Scarf Xerneas, as well as soft check Kartana and Altarianite Zygarde, making this Pokemon a prime pick due to its compression as an offensive threat.

252+ Atk Choice Band Ho-Oh Brave Bird vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Blissey: 318-375 (44.5 - 52.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

208+ Atk Life Orb Ho-Oh Brave Bird vs. 252 HP / 240+ Def Arceus-Ground: 175-207 (39.4 - 46.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

208+ Atk Life Orb Ho-Oh Brave Bird vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Blissey: 266-316 (37.2 - 44.2%) -- 1.2% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock

+2 252+ SpA Xerneas Thunder vs. 248 HP / 52 SpD Ho-Oh: 350-414 (84.3 - 99.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

+2 252 Atk Tough Claws Kartana Smart Strike vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Ho-Oh: 217-256 (52.2 - 61.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

+2 252 Atk Tough Claws Kartana Return vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Ho-Oh: 424-499 (102.1 - 120.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO

+1 252+ Atk Zygarde Thousand Arrows vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Ho-Oh: 187-220 (45 - 53%) -- 30.5% chance to 2HKO (Altarianite)

208+ Atk Life Orb Ho-Oh Brave Bird vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Zygarde: 231-273 (64.5 - 76.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252+ Atk Choice Band Ho-Oh Brave Bird vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Zygarde: 274-324 (76.5 - 90.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO


Victini from C to C+:

On the other hand, whilst Ho-oh may be more utilarian in its offensive role, Victini is nowhere close to that. It instead prefers to break walls with its nuclear Fire-STAB, which is one of the most powerful attacks in the tier, registering a 1.68 on the Mew scale. It even manages to 2HKO resistances due to its incredible power from both V-create and Blue Flare, allowing it to become an efficient mixed attacker. However, there are a plethora of things holding it back – middling bulk, weakness to Stealth Rock, competition for the Red Orb slot… but there is one thing that no other Red Orb user can do, and that is be a mixed attacker that can also threaten Blue Orb users back, such as Golisopod and Kyogre-Primal, which fear Bolt Strike. It is also able to pivot out of bad matchups with U-turn, although this is a bit difficult to pull off if V-create is used. Whilst Victini doesn’t have a standard spread, certain investments in Special Attack can 2HKO Groudon-Primal and Giratina-O with Blue Flare, two Pokemon that are often used as Red Orb resistances, and often work well for Pokemon like Raikou, which just goes to show how strong Victini’s fire moves actually are.

Disclaimer – due to a lack of an optimized spread for Victini, both will use Lonely and Rash natures with maximum investment for whatever Victini wants to hit. Do note that Victini will prefer a good deal of Speed investment, so taking these calcs as the be all and end all isn’t exactly the best idea.

252 Atk Victini V-create vs. 248 HP / 8 Def Groudon-Primal in Harsh Sunshine: 145-171 (35.9 - 42.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

252+ Atk Victini V-create vs. 248 HP / 8 Def Groudon-Primal in Harsh Sunshine: 160-189 (39.7 - 46.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

252+ SpA Victini Blue Flare vs. 168 HP / 36 SpD Groudon-Primal in Harsh Sunshine: 204-240 (53.2 - 62.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252+ Atk Victini V-create vs. 0 HP / 252 Def Giratina-Origin in Harsh Sunshine: 191-225 (43.3 - 51%) -- 4.7% chance to 2HKO

252 SpA Keldeo Focus Blast vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Victini: 133-157 (39 - 46%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

252+ Atk Victini Bolt Strike vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Keldeo: 326-384 (100.9 - 118.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO

+2 252 Atk Tough Claws Kartana Leaf Blade vs. 0 HP / 0- Def Victini: 243-287 (71.2 - 84.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO (do note that Return OHKOs!)

252+ Atk Victini V-create vs. 252 HP / 240+ Def Arceus-Fairy in Harsh Sunshine: 310-366 (69.8 - 82.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252+ SpA Victini Blue Flare vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Arceus-Fairy in Harsh Sunshine: 333-393 (75 - 88.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
 
Just curious, why is Arceus-Ghost still B+ on the VR? Other than beating Gothitelle and Cresselia (which aren't nearly as much of a threat as before), it is outclassed by Zygarde and Entei as priority abusers and outclassed by Gengar as an offensive Ghost type.
 
Just curious, why is Arceus-Ghost still B+ on the VR? Other than beating Gothitelle and Cresselia (which aren't nearly as much of a threat as before), it is outclassed by Zygarde and Entei as priority abusers and outclassed by Gengar as an offensive Ghost type.
It is one of if not the only supportceus that beats Zygarde consistently with its iron defense set while also having the boon of defog and not being able to be trapped by Gothitelle who traps and removes the rest of all relevant suppotceus'.
 
Hey, all. I've decided to do a bit of a cleanup with the metagame's resources thread, as some resources have not even begun an initial list. However, I've decided to do it in a different order, as this should help with the main VR, my goal as a contributor.

So, without further ado, here is my proposed Set Compendium:

Set Compendium
Altarianite Offensive Dragon Dance:

Zygarde @ Altarianite
Ability: Aura Break
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant / Jolly Nature
- Extreme Speed
- Return / Outrage
- Thousand Arrows
- Dragon Dance

Pinsirite SubCoil:

Zygarde @ Pinsirite
Ability: Aura Break
EVs: 192 HP / 252 Atk / 64 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Extreme Speed
- Coil
- Thousand Arrows
- Substitute

Pinsirite Offensive Dragon Dance:

Zygarde @ Pinsirite
Ability: Aura Break
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Extreme Speed
- Return / Outrage
- Thousand Arrows
- Dragon Dance

Lucarionite Dragon Dance:

Zygarde @ Lucarionite
Ability: Aura Break
EVs: 192 HP / 196 Atk / 120 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Substitute
- Outrage / Pain Split
- Thousand Arrows
- Dragon Dance

Glalitite Lure:

Zygarde @ Glalitite
Ability: Aura Break
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Extreme Speed
- Return / Outrage
- Thousand Arrows
- Dragon Dance

Specially Defensive:

Groudon-Primal @ Red Orb
Ability: Desolate Land
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Def / 252 SpD
Sassy / Careful Nature
- Lava Plume / Toxic
- Precipice Blades
- Stealth Rock
- Roar / Stone Edge

Bulky Mixed Wallbreaker:

Groudon-Primal @ Red Orb
Ability: Desolate Land
EVs: 168 HP / 52 Atk / 252 SpA / 36 SpD
Quiet Nature
- Overheat
- Precipice Blades
- Stealth Rock
- Stone Edge

Fast Mixed Wallbreaker:

Groudon-Primal @ Red Orb
Ability: Desolate Land
EVs: 48 Atk / 252 SpA / 144 SpD / 64 Spe
Mild Nature
- Overheat
- Precipice Blades
- Stealth Rock
- Stone Edge

Double Dance:

Groudon-Primal @ Red Orb
Ability: Desolate Land
EVs: 164 Atk / 192 SpD / 152 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Rock Polish
- Precipice Blades
- Swords Dance
- Stone Edge

Bulky Swords Dance:

Groudon-Primal @ Red Orb
Ability: Desolate Land
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Swords Dance
- Precipice Blades
- Stealth Rock
- Stone Edge

Special Wall:

Blissey @ Sablenite
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpD
Bold Nature
- Soft-Boiled
- Heal Bell
- Toxic / Stealth Rock
- Seismic Toss / Stealth Rock

Wishpasser:

Blissey @ Sablenite
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
- Wish
- Heal Bell
- Toxic / Seismic Toss
- Protect

Defensive Pivot:

Magearna @ Sablenite / Venusaurite
Ability: Soul-Heart
EVs: 252 HP / 4 SpA / 252 SpD
Sassy Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 0 Spe
- Fleur Cannon
- Volt Switch
- Heart Swap
- Pain Split

Calm Mind + Pain Split Stallbreaker:

Magearna @ Cameruptite
Ability: Soul-Heart
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpA
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Flash Cannon / Shadow Ball / Ice Beam
- Thunderbolt
- Calm Mind
- Pain Split

Offensive Trick Room:

Magearna @ Cameruptite
Ability: Soul-Heart
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpA
Quiet Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 0 Spe
- Flash Cannon / Ice Beam
- Thunderbolt
- Ice Beam / Focus Blast
- Trick Room

Support:

Arceus-Ground @ Earth Plate
Ability: Multitype
EVs: 252 HP / 240 Def / 16 Spe
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Judgment
- Ice Beam
- Recover
- Defog


Hazard Setter:

Deoxys-Speed @ Gyaradosite
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Spikes
- Stealth Rock
- Taunt
- Magic Coat / Psycho Boost

Pidgeotite Nasty Plot:

Deoxys-Speed @ Pidgeotite
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 160 HP / 252 SpA / 96 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Psycho Boost
- Focus Blast
- Zap Cannon
- Nasty Plot

Metagrossite Swords Dance:

Kartana @ Metagrossite:
Ability: Beast Boost
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Leaf Blade
- Swords Dance
- Sacred Sword
- Smart Strike / Return

Lopunnite Swords Dance:

Kartana @ Lopunnite:
Ability: Beast Boost
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Leaf Blade
- Swords Dance
- Sacred Sword
- Substitute

Diancite Attacker:

Tapu Lele @ Diancite
Ability: Psychic Surge
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Psychic / Calm Mind
- Psyshock
- Hidden Power [Fire] / Focus Blast
- Moonblast

Lucarionite Calm Mind:

Tapu Lele @ Lucarionite
Ability: Psychic Surge
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid / Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Calm Mind
- Psyshock
- Focus Blast / Psychic / Hidden Power [Fire]
- Moonblast

Absolite Attacker:

Tapu Lele @ Absolite
Ability: Psychic Surge
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Psychic / Calm Mind
- Psyshock
- Hidden Power [Fire] / Focus Blast
- Moonblast

Venusaurite Defensive:

Zapdos @ Venusaurite
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 248 HP / 160 Def / 100 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Discharge / Volt Switch
- Toxic / Heat Wave
- Roost
- Defog / Toxic

Sablenite Defensive:

Zapdos @ Sablenite
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Discharge / Volt Switch
- Toxic / Heat Wave
- Roost
- Defog / Toxic

Support:

Arceus-Fairy @ Pixie Plate
Ability: Multitype
EVs: 252 HP / 240 Def / 16 Spe
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Judgment
- Earth Power / Toxic
- Defog
- Recover

Diancite Nasty Plot:

Naganadel @ Diancite
Ability: Beast Boost
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Draco Meteor
- Nasty Plot
- Sludge Wave / Sludge Bomb
- Fire Blast / Flamethrower

Lucarionite Nasty Plot:

Naganadel @ Lucarionite
Ability: Beast Boost
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Draco Meteor
- Nasty Plot
- Sludge Wave / Sludge Bomb
- Fire Blast / Flamethrower

Pidgeotite Nasty Plot:

Naganadel @ Pidgeotite
Ability: Beast Boost
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Draco Meteor
- Nasty Plot
- Sludge Wave / Sludge Bomb
- Fire Blast

Geomancy:

Xerneas @ Power Herb
Ability: Fairy Aura
EVs: 72 HP / 252 SpA / 100 SpD / 84 Spe
IVs: 0 Atk
- Geomancy
- Moonblast
- Thunder
- Focus Blast / Hidden Power [Ground]

Zeomancy:

Xerneas @ Fairium Z
Ability: Fairy Aura
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Geomancy
- Ingrain
- Moonblast
- Rest

Choice Scarf:

Xerneas @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Fairy Aura
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Moonblast
- Focus Blast / Hidden Power [Ground]
- Grass Knot / Psyshock
- Thunder / Thunderbolt

Lucarionite Swords Dance:

Terrakion @ Lucarionite
Ability: Justified
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Close Combat
- Stone Edge
- Swords Dance
- Substitute / Taunt / Stealth Rock / Earthquake

Diancite Revenge Killer:

Terrakion @ Diancite
Ability: Justified
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Close Combat
- Stone Edge
- Swords Dance
- Stealth Rock / Substitute / Taunt

Latiasite Defensive:

Toxapex @ Latiasite
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpD
Bold Nature
- Scald / Toxic
- Haze
- Toxic Spikes / Toxic
- Recover

Gyaradosite Hazard Setter:

Toxapex @ Gyaradosite
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Def / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- Poison Jab / Toxic
- Toxic Spikes
- Recover
- Haze

Sablenite Defensive:

Toxapex @ Sablenite
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Def / 252 SpD
Calm Nature
- Toxic Spikes / Toxic
- Recover
- Scald / Toxic
- Recover

Pidgeotite Offensive:

Tapu Koko @ Pidgeotite
Ability: Electric Surge
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Thunder
- Dazzling Gleam
- Grass Knot
- Volt Switch / Calm Mind

Lucarionite Offensive:

Tapu Koko @ Lucarionite
Ability: Electric Surge
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Thunderbolt
- Dazzling Gleam
- Grass Knot
- Volt Switch / Calm Mind

Pidgeotite CM + Taunt:

Keldeo @ Pidgeotite
Ability: Justified
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Hydro Pump
- Focus Blast
- Calm Mind
- Taunt

Lucarionite CM + Taunt:

Keldeo @ Lucarionite
Ability: Justified
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Hydro Pump
- Secret Sword
- Calm Mind
- Taunt

Specially Defensive:

Necrozma-Dusk-Mane @ Leftovers
Ability: Prism Armor
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- Sunsteel Strike / Iron Head
- Toxic
- Morning Sun
- Stealth Rock

Swords Dance:

Necrozma-Dusk-Mane @ Solganium Z / Psychium Z
Ability: Prism Armor
EVs: 192 HP / 208 Atk / 108 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Sunsteel Strike
- Photon Geyser / Earthquake
- Morning Sun / Stealth Rock
- Swords Dance

Ultra Necrozma:

Necrozma-Dusk-Mane @ Ultranecrozmium Z
Ability: Prism Armor
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly / Naive Nature
- Earthquake
- Photon Geyser
- Stone Edge
- Swords Dance / Signal Beam

Double Dance:

Necrozma-Dusk-Mane @ Solganium Z / Weakness Policy
Ability: Prism Armor
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly / Adamant Nature
- Sunsteel Strike
- Photon Geyser / Earthquake
- Autotomize
- Swords Dance

Glalitite Anti-Priority:

Weavile @ Glalitite
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Return
- Low Kick / Throat Chop / Pursuit
- Fake Out
- Feint / Quick Attack

Lucarionite Pursuit Trapper:

Weavile @ Lucarionite
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Icicle Crash
- Throat Chop / Low Kick
- Ice Shard
- Pursuit

Altarianite Extreme Speed:

Entei @ Altarianite
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Sacred Fire
- Extreme Speed
- Return / Stomping Tantrum / Flare Blitz
- Stone Edge

Bulky Altarianite Extreme Speed:

Entei @ Altarianite
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Def
Adamant Nature
- Sacred Fire
- Extreme Speed
- Return / Stomping Tantrum / Flare Blitz
- Stone Edge

Pinsirite Extreme Speed:

Entei @ Pinsirite
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Sacred Fire
- Extreme Speed
- Return / Stomping Tantrum / Flare Blitz
- Stone Edge

Pidgeotite Wallbreaker:

Thundurus @ Pidgeotite
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Thunder
- Focus Blast
- Grass Knot / Hidden Power [Ice]
- Nasty Plot

Venusaurite Defensive:

Hippowdon @ Venusaurite
Ability: Sand Stream
EVs: 252 HP / 192 Def / 64 SpD
Impish Nature
- Earthquake
- Slack Off
- Whirlwind
- Toxic / Stealth Rock

Sablenite Defensive:

Hippowdon @ Sablenite
Ability: Sand Stream
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Impish Nature
- Earthquake
- Slack Off
- Whirlwind
- Toxic / Stealth Rock

Cameruptite Quiver Dance Sweeper:

Volcarona @ Cameruptite
Ability: Flame Body
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Fire Blast / Flamethrower
- Psychic
- Quiver Dance
- Roost / Bug Buzz

Red Orb Quiver Dance:

Volcarona @ Red Orb
Ability: Flame Body
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Fire Blast / Flamethrower
- Psychic
- Quiver Dance
- Roost / Bug Buzz

Suicide Lead:

Landorus-Therian @ Altarianite / Pinsirite / Salamencite
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Explosion
- Stealth Rock
- Earthquake
- Return / Swords Dance

Swords Dance:

Landorus-Therian @ Altarianite / Pinsirite / Salamencite
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Swords Dance
- Stealth Rock / Gravity / Rock Polish
- Earthquake
- Return

Defensive:

Landorus-Therian @ Altarianite / Salamencite
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 Spe
Bold Nature
- U-turn
- Stealth Rock
- Earthquake
- Return

Swords Dance:

Arceus-Ghost @ Ghostium Z
Ability: Multitype
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Shadow Force
- Earthquake
- Swords Dance
- Brick Break / Extreme Speed

Support:

Arceus-Ghost @ Spooky Plate
Ability: Multitype
EVs: 252 HP / 240 Def / 16 Spe
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Judgment
- Toxic / Will-O-Wisp
- Recover
- Defog

Offensive:

Togekiss @ Red Orb
Ability: Desolate Land
EVs: 248 HP / 252 SpA / 8 SpD
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Flamethrower / Fire Blast
- Nasty Plot
- Heal Bell / Dazzling Gleam / Shock Wave
- Roost / Morning Sun

Defensive:

Togekiss @ Red Orb
Ability: Desolate Land
EVs: 248 HP / 8 SpA / 252 SpD
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Flamethrower
- Defog
- Roost / Morning Sun
- Heal Bell

Absolite Tail Glow:

Manaphy @ Absolite
Ability: Hydration
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
IVs: 0 Atk
- Surf / Scald
- Tail Glow
- Psychic
- Ice Beam

Sceptilite Tail Glow:

Manaphy @ Sceptilite
Ability: Hydration
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
IVs: 0 Atk
- Surf / Scald
- Tail Glow
- Psychic
- Ice Beam

Red Orb:

Raikou @ Red Orb
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Rash Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Weather Ball
- Thunderbolt
- Volt Switch
- Calm Mind / Hidden Power [Ice]

Blue Orb:

Golisopod @ Blue Orb
Ability: Emergency Exit
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 8 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Aqua Jet
- Liquidation
- Swords Dance
- Drill Run

Blue Orb Defensive:

Skarmory @ Blue Orb
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpD
Impish Nature
- Brave Bird
- Defog / Stealth Rock
- Roost
- Toxic / Stealth Rock / Spikes

Venusaurite Defensive:

Skarmory @ Venusaurite
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpD
Impish Nature
- Brave Bird
- Defog / Stealth Rock
- Roost
- Toxic / Stealth Rock / Spikes

Sub CM:

Blacephalon @ Lucarionite
Ability: Beast Boost
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Substitute
- Calm Mind
- Fire Blast
- Shadow Ball

Extreme Speed Offensive:

Genesect @ Pinsirite / Altarianite
Ability: Download
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Hasty Nature
- Extreme Speed
- Explosion
- Return / Tri Attack
- Shift Gear / U-turn

Pidgeotite Offensive:

Genesect @ Pidgeotite
Ability: Download
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Zap Cannon
- Blizzard
- Flash Cannon / Bug Buzz / U-turn
- U-turn / Rock Polish

Glalitite Lure:

Genesect @ Glalitite
Ability: Download
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Hasty Nature
- Extreme Speed
- Explosion / Blaze Kick
- Iron Head
- Shift Gear / U-turn

Pidgeotite:

Xurkitree @ Pidgeotite
Ability: Beast Boost
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Zap Cannon
- Grass Knot
- Tail Glow
- Hypnosis

Absolite:

Xurkitree @ Absolite
Ability: Beast Boost
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Thunderbolt
- Grass Knot
- Tail Glow
- Toxic / Substitute / Hidden Power [Fire]

Life Orb:

Ho-oh @ Life Orb
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 224 HP / 136 Atk / 72 SpD / 76 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Sacred Fire
- Brave Bird
- Toxic
- Recover

Choice Band:

Ho-oh @ Choice Band
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 248 HP / 208 Atk / 52 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Sacred Fire
- Brave Bird
- Toxic
- Earthquake

Stall-Oh:

Ho-oh @ Leftovers
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 248 HP / 208 Def / 52 SpD
Impish Nature
- Sacred Fire
- Brave Bird
- Toxic
- Recover

CM Trapper:

Gothitelle @ Leftovers
Ability: Shadow Tag
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpD / 4 Spe
Calm Nature
- Calm Mind
- Rest
- Psyshock
- Taunt

PP Stall:

Gothitelle @ Leftovers
Ability: Shadow Tag
EVs: 252 HP / 192 Def / 64 SpD
Bold Nature
- Confide
- Rest
- Charm
- Taunt

Physical Tank:

Buzzwole @ Aggronite
Ability: Beast Boost
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Impish Nature
- Roost
- Toxic
- Lunge / Ice Punch
- Earthquake

Web Setter:

Shuckle @ Gyaradosite / Ampharosite
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Sticky Web
- Stealth Rock
- Encore
- Toxic

Choice Specs:

Lunala @ Choice Specs
Ability: Shadow Shield
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid / Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Moongeist Beam
- Psyshock
- Focus Blast
- Ice Beam

Calm Mind

Lunala @ Lunalium Z / Leftovers
Ability: Shadow Shield
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid / Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Moongeist Beam
- Focus Blast
- Psyshock / Substitute / Roost
- Calm Mind

Choice Scarf

Lunala @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Shadow Shield
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Moongeist Beam
- Psyshock
- Focus Blast
- Ice Beam

Pidgeotite:

Gengar @ Pidgeotite
Ability: Cursed Body
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Hex / Shadow Ball
- Hypnosis / Sludge Wave / Sludge Bomb
- Focus Blast
- Zap Cannon / Hypnosis

Gengarite:

Gengar @ Gengarite
Ability: Cursed Body
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Shadow Ball
- Sludge Wave
- Focus Blast
- Destiny Bond / Perish Song

Ampharosite Defensive:

Mew @ Ampharosite
Ability: Synchronize
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Psyshock
- Soft-Boiled
- Toxic / Stealth Rock / Defog
- U-turn / Stealth Rock / Defog

Sablenite Defensive:

Mew @ Sablenite
Ability: Synchronize
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Psyshock
- Soft-Boiled
- Toxic / Stealth Rock / Defog
- U-turn / Stealth Rock / Defog

Pidgeotite:

Mew @ Pidgeotite
Ability: Synchronize
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Psyshock
- Zap Cannon
- Blizzard
- Nasty Plot

Pivot:

Mandibuzz @ Sablenite / Venusaurite
Ability: Overcoat
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpD
Bold Nature
- Foul Play
- Roost
- Defog
- U-turn / Toxic

Support:

Arceus-Water @ Splash Plate
Ability: Multitype
EVs: 252 HP / 240 Def / 16 Spe
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Judgment
- Ice Beam
- Defog
- Recover

Life Orb:

Yveltal @ Life Orb
Ability: Dark Aura
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Oblivion Wing
- Dark Pulse
- U-turn / Heat Wave
- Taunt / Heat Wave

Choiced:

Yveltal @ Choice Specs / Scarf
Ability: Dark Aura
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Oblivion Wing
- Dark Pulse
- U-turn
- Heat Wave

Defensive:

Yveltal @ Leftovers / Dread Plate
Ability: Dark Aura
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpD
Bold Nature
- Foul Play
- Roost
- Defog / Toxic
- Taunt / U-turn / Toxic

Offensive Pivot:

Cobalion @ Diancite
Ability: Justified
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Naive Nature
- Iron Head
- Close Combat
- Stealth Rock / Swords Dance
- Volt Switch

Pinsirite:

Cobalion @ Pinsirite
Ability: Justified
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Iron Head
- Return
- Swords Dance
- Stealth Rock

Calm Mind:

Cresselia @ Sablenite
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Psyshock
- Calm Mind
- Moonlight
- Moonblast

Red Orb:

Victini @ Red Orb
Ability: Victory Star
EVs: 156 HP / 252 Atk / 100 Spe
Lonely Nature
- V-create
- Blue Flare
- Bolt Strike
- U-turn / Glaciate / Work Up

Diancite:

Victini @ Diancite
Ability: Victory Star
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Naive Nature
- V-create
- Blue Flare
- Bolt Strike
- U-turn / Glaciate / Work Up

Sub CM:

Kyogre-Primal @ Blue Orb
Ability: Primordial Sea
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Origin Pulse
- Ice Beam
- Calm Mind
- Substitute

Choice Scarf:

Kyogre @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Drizzle
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Water Spout
- Origin Pulse
- Ice Beam
- Thunder

Life Orb Wallbreaker:

Rayquaza @ Life Orb
Ability: Air Lock
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Naive Nature
- V-create
- Dragon Ascent
- Draco Meteor
- Extreme Speed / Surf

Flyinium Z Swords Dance

Rayquaza @ Flyinium Z
Ability: Air Lock
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- V-create
- Dragon Ascent
- Aqua Tail
- Swords Dance

Suicide Lead:

Excadrill @ Focus Sash
Ability: Mold Breaker
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Earthquake
- Iron Head
- Rapid Spin
- Stealth Rock

Offensive:

Excadrill @ Metagrossite / Lucarionite
Ability: Mold Breaker
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Earthquake
- Iron Head
- Rock Slide / Stealth Rock
- Swords Dance

-ate:

Excadrill @ Altaranite / Pinsirite / Glalitite
Ability: Mold Breaker
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Earthquake
- Return
- Rapid Spin / Swords Dance
- Stealth Rock / Rapid Spin / Iron Head

Pinsirite Suicide Lead:

Metagross @ Pinsirite
Ability: Clear Body
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Earthquake
- Return / Stealth Rock
- Explosion
- Stealth Rock / Rock Polish

-ate:

Arcanine @ Altarianite / Pinsirite
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Extreme Speed
- Flare Blitz
- Return
- Morning Sun

Swords Dance:

Mimikyu @ Metagrossite / Lucarionite
Ability: Disguise
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Play Rough
- Shadow Sneak
- Shadow Claw
- Swords Dance

Defensive Support:

Giratina @ Leftovers
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 252 HP / 204 Def / 52 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 30 Spe
- Rest
- Toxic
- Roar / Dragon Tail
- Defog

Offensive Support:

Giratina-Origin @ Griseous Orb
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 4 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA
Quiet Nature
- Shadow Sneak
- Defog
- Draco Meteor
- Shadow Ball

Extreme Killer:

Arceus-Normal @ Life Orb
Ability: Multitype
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Extreme Speed
- Swords Dance
- Shadow Claw
- Earthquake

Bulky EKiller:

Arceus-Normal @ Silk Scarf / Leftovers
Ability: Multitype
EVs: 200 HP / 252 Atk / 56 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Extreme Speed
- Swords Dance
- Shadow Claw
- Recover / Substitute

Support:

Arceus-Steel @ Iron Plate
Ability: Multitype
EVs: 252 HP / 240 Def / 16 Spe
Bold Nature
- Judgment
- Earth Power
- Defog / Calm Mind
- Recover

Swords Dance

Arceus-Steel @ Steelium Z
Ability: Multitype
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Iron Head
- Earthquake
- Recover / Stone Edge
- Swords Dance

Defogger:

Mantine @ Audinite
Ability: Water Absorb
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Calm Nature
- Roost
- Defog
- Toxic
- Scald

Defensive:

Zygarde @ Leftovers
Ability: Power Construct
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Impish Nature
- Thousand Arrows
- Dragon Tail / Glare
- Rest
- Sleep Talk / Toxic / Glare

SubDD:

Zygarde @ Groundium Z
Ability: Power Construct
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Thousand Arrows
- Extreme Speed / Dragon Tail
- Dragon Dance
- Substitute

Lucarionite:

Garchomp @ Lucarionite
Ability: Rough Skin
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly / Adamant Nature
- Swords Dance
- Earthquake
- Outrage
- Stealth Rock

Dragon Dance Sweeper:

Gyarados @ Pinsirite / Salamencite:
Ability: Initimidate
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Dragon Dance
- Waterfall
- Return
- Earthquake

Red Orb Attacker:

Venusaur @ Red Orb
Ability: Overgrow
EVs: 252 HP / 232 SpA / 24 SpD
Modest Nature
- Weather Ball
- Giga Drain
- Synthesis
- Growth


Support:

Arceus-Poison @ Toxic Plate
Ability: Multitype
EVs: 252 HP / 240 Def / 16 Spe
Bold Nature
- Judgment
- Recover
- Earth Power / Defog
- Psych Up

Swords Dance:

Arceus-Poison @ Poisonium Z
Ability: Multitype
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Poison Jab
- Earthquake
- Recover / Stone Edge
- Swords Dance

Anti-Pinsirite:

Arceus-Rock @ Stone Plate
Ability: Multitype
EVs: 252 HP / 240 Def / 16 Spe
Bold Nature
- Calm Mind / Defog
- Recover
- Judgment
- Will-O-Wisp

SubPunch:

Breloom @ Banettite
Ability: Effect Spore
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Substitute
- Spore
- Focus Punch
- Seed Bomb
 
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I was wondering, would the stones that work on Skarmory, work on Celesteela? Seeing as they're both Steel/Flying and all. I am aware that Skarmory is more of a physical wall than anything, but Celesteela could have some other utility like using Leech Seed to chip some damage and slight recovery. It also has better all around bulk instead of not being able to take special hits that well like in the case of Skarmory. I've tried out Blue Orb Celesteela once and it worked out decently. Plus, it was used more than Buzzwole in MnM-1760 during October, and the four most used stones on it were Sablenite, Blue Orb, Salamencite, and Venusaurite. Sablenite definitely works, though there are better Sablenite users out there, like Magearna or Bliss; Not quite sure what people are running Salamencite for? It's not quite good enough offensively to hit hard with Flying type STAB. Blue Orb removes its Fire weakness and is a good counter to Groudon-Primal not carrying Electric moves; while Venusaurite turns it neutral to Fire moves while resisting Ice, plus giving it much more defenses on both sides.

Gonna nominate it for B- for now.

Also when will the USUM MnM viability rankings be put up? Just curious.
 
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I was wondering, would the stones that work on Skarmory, work on Celesteela? Seeing as they're both Steel/Flying and all. I am aware that Skarmory is more of a physical wall than anything, but Celesteela could have some other utility like using Leech Seed to chip some damage and slight recovery. It also has better all around bulk instead of not being able to take special hits that well like in the case of Skarmory. I've tried out Blue Orb Celesteela once and it worked out decently. Plus, it was used more than Buzzwole in MnM-1760 during October, and the four most used stones on it were Sablenite, Blue Orb, Salamencite, and Venusaurite. Sablenite definitely works, though there are better Sablenite users out there, like Magearna or Bliss; Not quite sure what people are running Salamencite for? It's not quite good enough offensively to hit hard with Flying type STAB. Blue Orb removes its Fire weakness and is a good counter to Groudon-Primal not carrying Electric moves; while Venusaurite turns it neutral to Fire moves while resisting Ice, plus giving it much more defenses on both sides.

Gonna nominate it for B- for now.

Also when will the USUM MnM viability rankings be put up? Just curious.
The problem with Celesteela is that it's eminently exploitable. It sits in a weird spot: its only recovery is leech seed, but leech seed is just not a good option; its bouncable, which means that not only is any damage it takes vs teams pretty much always going to stick with it throughout the game, it also means that trying to heal will in many cases end up injuring it further. On the flip side, unlike other recovery poor defensive tanks such as SpD Primal Groudon and Magearna, it can't pressure anything offensively and force out the stuff it walls, so it just ends up getting chipped, bypassed, or set up on in almost every game. It's not worthless per se, but using it at a serious level is as uphill battle .