M&M Mix and Mega Resources

I'd like to nominate, of all things, Breloom and Shiinotic for B Rank.

Simply put: Banettite is a godsend for them. Not only does it give them both Prankster Spore as well as Leech Seed and Substitute, but also allows them to become incredibly threatening with their high attack boost and crazy utility respectively. Breloom obtains a staggering 180 Base Attack, making even its Drain Punch potentially fatal while dealing with Dark types and healing it back. It can also go for SubPunch firing off terrifying Focus Punches that can even one-shot Sablenite Blissey or easily 2HKO PDon. While situational and requiring a lot of skill to get off, Breloom is still rewarding with its own merits.

Shiinotic may not receive a high stat boost compared to Breloom, but it's equally as scary to face simply because of Strength Sap. Because of the mechanics of MnM, many Pokemon receive an attack boost upon Mega Evolving whether they want it or not, which is even more fuel for Shiinotic to leech off and regain more health from. Coupled with Prankster, it can easily avoid potential KOs by weakening the opponent and resetting its HP in one click with its shockingly-effective bulk. Not only does the Fairy typing add useful resistances to Bug, Dark, and Fighting along with the option of STAB Moonblast for offense, but its 60/90/120 bulk allows it to survive many attacks that you would normally think would OHKO it at full health with the right defense investment, such as Pinsirite Zygarde's Extreme Speed, PKyogre's Ice Beam, Lucarionite Marshadow's Spectral Theif, Metagrossite Kartana's Return, and +2 Metagrossite Mimikyu's Play Rough while it either hits with Moonblast, heals, or sets up a Substitute or status on the opponent.

Bottom line, even though they have clear flaws preventing them from being high-tier, both Breloom and Shiinotic along with Banettite are very capable Grass types that can both rip apart unprepared teams with their respective strength and utility, and I feel are worth considering when teambuilding.
 
I'd like to nominate, of all things, Breloom and Shiinotic for B Rank.

Simply put: Banettite is a godsend for them. Not only does it give them both Prankster Spore as well as Leech Seed and Substitute, but also allows them to become incredibly threatening with their high attack boost and crazy utility respectively. Breloom obtains a staggering 180 Base Attack, making even its Drain Punch potentially fatal while dealing with Dark types and healing it back. It can also go for SubPunch firing off terrifying Focus Punches that can even one-shot Sablenite Blissey or easily 2HKO PDon. While situational and requiring a lot of skill to get off, Breloom is still rewarding with its own merits.

Shiinotic may not receive a high stat boost compared to Breloom, but it's equally as scary to face simply because of Strength Sap. Because of the mechanics of MnM, many Pokemon receive an attack boost upon Mega Evolving whether they want it or not, which is even more fuel for Shiinotic to leech off and regain more health from. Coupled with Prankster, it can easily avoid potential KOs by weakening the opponent and resetting its HP in one click with its shockingly-effective bulk. Not only does the Fairy typing add useful resistances to Bug, Dark, and Fighting along with the option of STAB Moonblast for offense, but its 60/90/120 bulk allows it to survive many attacks that you would normally think would OHKO it at full health with the right defense investment, such as Pinsirite Zygarde's Extreme Speed, PKyogre's Ice Beam, Lucarionite Marshadow's Spectral Theif, Metagrossite Kartana's Return, and +2 Metagrossite Mimikyu's Play Rough while it either hits with Moonblast, heals, or sets up a Substitute or status on the opponent.

Bottom line, even though they have clear flaws preventing them from being high-tier, both Breloom and Shiinotic along with Banettite are very capable Grass types that can both rip apart unprepared teams with their respective strength and utility, and I feel are worth considering when teambuilding.
Why is Metagrossite Kartana using Return on a Shiinotic when it has a Super-effective STAB for it? Also if there is any Sablenite (or absolite) mon on the opposing team Shiinotic can't heal at all outside of like, Giga Drain, leaving it with incredibly low survival. I don't see why you'd want to use it over other mons with Spore in a tier where Magic Bounce is everywhere, and I don't see how its worthy of B. It will take some arguing before you convince me its worthy of a rank at all.

Breloom I can agree with though, haven't used it or seen it much but its offensive presence seems really nice on paper when combined with spore.
 
I'm going to preface this by saying I'm avoiding talking about stall because I haven't played with it recently. There are Goli walls on stall ig, Tina for instance, but I don't really know what I'm talking about.

I'm not sure what to say that I haven't already said so I'll repeat myself a bit: I find Golisopod easy to switch into, easy to pressure, easy to chip. Kartana, any Red Orb mon, Pinsirite Zygarde; none of these fear more than Toxic. While Toxicing these mons (bar Kart ofc) isn't nothing, it's kind of bad when you consider that all of these are strong offensive mons that you dont want to give free turns to. I would change any form of hazard control to a very reliable form of hazard control. If Goli is constantly taking chip damage it cant abuse the good bulk it has.

I guess I can agree that teams do have to prepare for it, but to have a place in A+ I think Goli should be more difficult to stop than it is, and require less support than it does.

A- would be fine for me. I think A is still too high. B+ was probably me being biased from running Ray + Pdon for so long.

.............
How common / good is Ice Beam? I've never run across it in a good long while of switching Ray fearlessly into it, but it seems like it would be a pretty effective way of neutralizing some checks on the switch-in. Might change my opinion a little in an upwards direction, although not likely more than its already been changed tbh.
sorry if this is scattered my brain is dying cuz its late


I'm not entirely sure what you mean by Zapdos being easily pressured, but a lot of them run Heat Wave, and pDef Zapdos takes less than 25% from Kartana's Leaf Blade. It seems like a pretty solid check to me. Zapdos just has to be above ~50% after rocks when switching in and it will do fine as far as I can see.
Kartana is in no way a switch even if they don't run leech life, altho it can act as a decent revenge killer and soft check alongside a red orb mon - +2 252+ Atk Golisopod Liquidation vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Kartana in Heavy Rain: 212-250 (81.8 - 96.5%) -- 18.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock, and if they survive to use that they can aqua jet next turn. in return kartana has this: 252 Atk Tough Claws Kartana Leaf Blade vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Golisopod: 192-226 (54.2 - 63.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO. Kartana can 1v1 even leech life with swords dance, but thats a rather different situation that being a reliable switchin.

Ice beam is a solid option, but generally only if you don't have other answers as it tickles pdon and doesnt even reliably OHKO pinsirite after rocks; you do live an aerilate espeed and can thus sometimes stay in, but rocks cant be up and they have to not have frustration.

Zapdos has to stay above 70% after rocks, as otherwise this happens: +2 252 Atk Tough Claws Kartana Return vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Zapdos: 226-267 (59 - 69.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO. This means it (or another defogger) must be able to switch in on the rocker, which is often pretty much impossible - see primal groudon - or maintain 100% health and never get doubled on. This means it cant check genesect, because uturn to a counter forces it out, it cant get statused (even burn lets it die after rocks), it has to recover even at 90% - and this is if it runs heat wave and becomes 100% pdon bait. For volt switch toxic (and even more so uturn toxic), it must stay above thta health, and then succesfulky predict betweeen recovery and pivoting to a check - if any are even alive. Volt switch does deal a nice amount, but kart can take it and still sta out of weakile range so it's not super easy there either.
I'd like to nominate, of all things, Breloom and Shiinotic for B Rank.

Simply put: Banettite is a godsend for them. Not only does it give them both Prankster Spore as well as Leech Seed and Substitute, but also allows them to become incredibly threatening with their high attack boost and crazy utility respectively. Breloom obtains a staggering 180 Base Attack, making even its Drain Punch potentially fatal while dealing with Dark types and healing it back. It can also go for SubPunch firing off terrifying Focus Punches that can even one-shot Sablenite Blissey or easily 2HKO PDon. While situational and requiring a lot of skill to get off, Breloom is still rewarding with its own merits.

Shiinotic may not receive a high stat boost compared to Breloom, but it's equally as scary to face simply because of Strength Sap. Because of the mechanics of MnM, many Pokemon receive an attack boost upon Mega Evolving whether they want it or not, which is even more fuel for Shiinotic to leech off and regain more health from. Coupled with Prankster, it can easily avoid potential KOs by weakening the opponent and resetting its HP in one click with its shockingly-effective bulk. Not only does the Fairy typing add useful resistances to Bug, Dark, and Fighting along with the option of STAB Moonblast for offense, but its 60/90/120 bulk allows it to survive many attacks that you would normally think would OHKO it at full health with the right defense investment, such as Pinsirite Zygarde's Extreme Speed, PKyogre's Ice Beam, Lucarionite Marshadow's Spectral Theif, Metagrossite Kartana's Return, and +2 Metagrossite Mimikyu's Play Rough while it either hits with Moonblast, heals, or sets up a Substitute or status on the opponent.

Bottom line, even though they have clear flaws preventing them from being high-tier, both Breloom and Shiinotic along with Banettite are very capable Grass types that can both rip apart unprepared teams with their respective strength and utility, and I feel are worth considering when teambuilding.
One problem with breloom is its overlap with kartana; many kartana checks, such as Yveltal, Zapdos, and Giratina, all wall both, and can do so reasonably comfortably. Spore is a great tool, but it also doesnt do much against most defensive teams and offense will always have some answer or another. Its definitally improved with the dissapearance of skymin and the corresponding decrease is sleep/grass answers, but while I wouldn't actually be very opposed flat B just seems a bit high. Do you have any replays to show?

As far as shinootic, though, Im really not seing the appeal. Yes, you can wall with strength sap and spore, but any chip sticks with it because its helpless against bounce, and its complete setup bait for kartana since strength sap is outpaced by swords dance. Even against marshadow its really iffy, as marshadow can use shadow sneak if spectral falls short. I just can't imagine many teams that wouldn't be improved by its lack; again, do you have any replays or team importables to show its use?
 
I'd like to nominate Magearna to move from A- to A rank.

The new shift in the meta has made Magearna even more viable thanks to the introduction of Marshadow - acting as a check to both it and a counter to the Dark/Flying brethren used to check Marshadow, Mandibuzz and Yveltal. Whilst Groudon-Primal is still a massive threat for Magearna, it is not hard to deal some incredible chip damage to it with Fleur Cannon - infact, Fleur Cannon can be used as a great scouting tool with Blue Orb users - specifically to check if the Groudon-Primal set is a specially defensive variant or not. It is also good against the influx of Fairies into the meta if it is carrying Flash Cannon - whilst a suboptimal move, this can be used to put Arceus-Fairy in check, one of the greater defensive threats this generation. It also happens to be one of the only anti-leads to Deoxys-Speed in the game, and one of the only reliable checks to Xerneas.

However, one trait stands out above all for Magearna, and that is the incredible boon Sablenite Magearna offer for their team, being one of the only Pokemon with a pivot move being able to underspeed Sablenite Blissey, allowing checks such as Marshadow to enter the field without the fear of getting hit with Toxic. However, once the meta adapts to this change, Magearna will no longer be able to sap the incredible amount of momentum it did from Blissey. However - not all is lost. It can abuse Pain Split to cut down Blissey's health considerably, and if Blissey is slower than Magearna, Magearna will find it much easier to switch in at lower health percentiles and take the enemies health from them to put it back into action. It also suffers from mild four-moveslot syndrome - it often finds it difficult to fit Flash Cannon onto a set without losing to Z-Geomancy Xerneas, and therefore it is the least preferred move out of the five that it could take.

There are also other sets emerging, such as a trick room abusing set using Cameruptite, which can take potentially take off 50% of Groudon-Primal's health (252+ SpA Sheer Force Magearna Ice Beam vs. 168 HP / 36 SpD Groudon-Primal: 180-212 (46.9 - 55.3%) -- 73.4% chance to 2HKO), somewhat invalidating it as a switchin. However, these sets are niche compared to the main pivoting set, as Trick Room archetypes often fail to have the amount of options that other offense types have. However, there is a lot of diversity in the different EVs that set could use, as there are a few key threats that can be checked if Magearna invests into Defense and Special Defense alongside HP. One of these happens to be Zygarde, which with 44 Defense EVs, and a Bold nature, a Magearna can effectively tank 2 Thousand Arrows from a non-mega Zygarde.

252+ Atk Zygarde Thousand Arrows vs. 252 HP / 44+ Def Magearna: 152-182 (41.7 - 50%) -- 0.4% chance to 2HKO - If one were to ensure that a 2HKO was not possible without a crit, the next value would be 68+ Def, which cuts down other investment considerably in comparison.
However, I would plead to recommend using a Modest nature with 252 SpA investment to deal as much damage to walls as possible - Magearna really needs to wear down its checks throughout the match, and removing the Modest nature removes a few key KOs that it may need. A set with 252 HP/44+ Def/212 SpD is also a possible option if you really need the defense on Magearna.

With that said, here are some calculations to prove Magearna's worth as a bulky, but powerful pivot.

Offensive calculations, assuming Sablenite:
252+ SpA Magearna Fleur Cannon vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Groudon-Primal: 100-118 (24.8 - 29.2%) -- 100% chance to 4HKO
252+ SpA Magearna Fleur Cannon vs. 152 HP / 44 SpD Groudon-Primal: 135-159 (35.6 - 41.9%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252+ SpA Magearna Fleur Cannon vs. 0 HP / 152 SpD Groudon-Primal: 120-142 (35.1 - 41.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO - The blank area between these calculations really helps to tell what you should be switching into; even then, offensive variants still take a chunk from Magearna and are eventually worn down completely by it due to lack of reliable recovery.
252+ SpA Magearna Fleur Cannon vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Tapu Koko: 297-349 (105.6 - 124.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ SpA Magearna Fleur Cannon vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Deoxys-Speed: 259-306 (107.4 - 126.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO (Pidgeotite)
252+ SpA Magearna Fleur Cannon vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Deoxys-Speed: 330-390 (108.5 - 128.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO (Gyaradosite) - even max SpD Deo-S cannot live a Fleur Cannon from this thing.
252+ SpA Magearna Fleur Cannon vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Marshadow: 476-564 (148.2 - 175.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO (Metagrossite)
252+ SpA Magearna Fleur Cannon vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Arceus-Fairy: 222-262 (50 - 59%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ SpA Magearna Flash Cannon vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Arceus-Fairy: 272-324 (61.2 - 72.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Defensive calculations, assuming Sablenite:
232+ SpA Yveltal Heat Wave vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Magearna: 146-174 (40.1 - 47.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO (Vs. other variants, more SpD may be preferred due to Heat Wave 2HKOing the standard spread. Venusaurite also helps to mitigate this, which may become more viable as more and more Blissey start to run minimum speed.)
252 Atk Adaptability Marshadow Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Magearna: 198-234 (54.3 - 64.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Tough Claws Marshadow Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Magearna: 169-201 (46.4 - 55.2%) -- 67.6% chance to 2HKO
252 Atk Tough Claws Marshadow Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 44+ Def Magearna: 150-177 (41.2 - 48.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO (This does make the defensive variant a possible counter!)
252 Atk Adaptability Terrakion Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 44+ Def Magearna: 178-210 (48.9 - 57.6%) -- 96.1% chance to 2HKO
252 SpA Tapu Lele Psychic vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Magearna in Psychic Terrain: 87-103 (23.9 - 28.2%) -- 95.6% chance to 4HKO (Absolite)

Other calculations such as resisted hits have been omitted, however, the defensive typing of Magearna should lead to some hints on just how good it is on walling offensive mons in the meta.
 
What is Terrakion doing in A right now? Not only is the introduction of Marshadow leading to a significant increase in Fairy-Arceus but Marshadow is really giving Terrakion a run for its money. Marshadow almost completely eclipses Terrakion in the current metagame seeing as it's faster, has more utility and it's more versatile. Never mind the fact that Marshadow is an excellent Terrakion check, being immune to Close Combat and Lucarionite Stone Edge being a roll. If it dares to set up then Marshadow can just steal its boosts and kill it back, even if it's behind a sub. I played a bit today and I had a really hard time justifying using Terrakion over Marshadow. Therefore I nominate it to drop from

A --> B
 
Golisipod to B+ or lower

1. Revenge killed by Extreme Speed + Aerilate and Pinsirite Zygarde can switch in to any attack.

2. Walled by most Red Orb users including Primal Groudon which means free Stealth Rock or potential Lava Plume burn.

3. Weak to Stealth Rock which is terrible since Primal Groudon switches in for free. Primal Groudon doesn't have a tough time finding an opportunity to setup rocks if Golisipod is the check.

4. Swords Dance sets are bad because it is terribly slow and there are much better options for breaking defensive cores, especially since both forms of Giratina counter it easily. Also Marshadow will steal your boost.

5. A lot of strong electric types that can pivot or OHKO including Zapdos which is very common. Also it is pressured by Xurkitree, Thunderous and Tapu Koko since they tank Aqua Jet and threaten to OHKO.

6. Fairy types including Arceus-Fairy which is very popular, Magearna which can also pivot with Volt Switch, and Xerneas are all common threats that check it.

7. There are better checks to Weavile like Keldeo and Manaphy which are far more threatening, and they threaten Primal Groudon as well.

These replays especially show Golisipod's inability to do anything worthwhile vs a Balanced team:

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7mixandmega-600752677 qt

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7mixandmega-611127797 peef

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7mixandmega-611130474 it

I was using Hyper Offense in this game but between Stealth Rock and Primal Groudon... Golisipod stood no chance.

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7mixandmega-598959797 m3ggo
 
I have a few mons I'd like to nominate, stating my current thoughts on the meta.

Toxapex from Unranked to B/B- (Sablenite, Black Sludge)

Toxapex is an amazing defensive pivot in Mix and Mega, even without a mega stone it does its job exceptionally well, especially with Regenerator making it incredibly tough to take down. This trait that Toxapex has allows it to check Marshadow to a degree, abusing Scald to fish for burns. Due to the lack of trappers in the current meta, Toxapex also finds it very risk free to switch in, making it an incredible team player for stall and semi-stall teams. This isn't to say that it has its problems, however. Toxapex finds itself easily dealt with by the common Groudon-Primal, which is able to invalidate its Scald, with the only way of harming it being to use Toxic to slowly wear it down with the rest of the team. It also finds itself unable to lay Toxic Spikes due to the abundance of Magic Bounce in the tier, further hindering its utility on stall teams. As well as this, Electric-type attackers such as Raikou and Tapu Koko are somewhat common breakers, along with Psychic-types such as Tapu Lele and the somewhat uncommon Lunala easily 2HKOing it. Whilst it can abuse Haze to eliminate setup sweepers as a check to it, if they have already set up on their switchin, Toxapex finds it fairly difficult to deal with them. Toxapex is also very passive, and despite an immunity to Toxic and access to Haze, it can quite easily be broken by special attackers, as well as easily broken by Ground-type STAB. However, with all of this in mind, Toxapex still comes out on top as a very irritating Pokemon overall.

Wall of calcs:
Defensively:
+3 252 SpA Manaphy Energy Ball vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Toxapex: 191-225 (62.8 - 74%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+1 252 Atk Tough Claws Marshadow Spectral Thief vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Toxapex: 157-186 (51.6 - 61.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO - here you can fish for Scald burns
252+ Atk Zygarde Thousand Arrows vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Toxapex: 116-138 (38.1 - 45.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252+ SpA Magearna Volt Switch vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Toxapex: 138-164 (45.3 - 53.9%) -- 44.5% chance to 2HKO
(these are all without Sablenite boosts)

E: With the release of Latiasite, this mon's viability has skyrocketed for obvious reasons, and so I believe it should firmly be placed in A-.


Buzzwole from Unranked to B+ (Aggronite)

Buzzwole is an exceptional physical wall - not only that, but it also lacks the passivity of the other defensive Pokemon on this list - with its great 169 base Attack and exceptional 189 base Defense, Buzzwole can comfortably handle the majority of physical attackers in the metagame unboosted. If a Pokemon wants to break through Buzzwole's titanic defenses, they need to hit it with a Fire-type attack. And that is Buzzwole's main weakness. Fire-type attacks are sure to demolish the buff bug's defenses, hitting it for an effective 3x damage modifier, thanks to Filter helping Buzzwole deal with it a little easier. Unfortunately, that's not all that Buzzwole struggles to handle - most special attackers will force it out, even if they do hit it neutrally with their STAB. Whilst it may have a better-than-average 107 base HP, its middling base 73 Special Defense, especially uninvested, leaves it susceptible to the various special attackers in the meta, such as Yveltal, Genesect and Manaphy, two of which resist its main moves (one if Genesect is Glalitite), Lunge and Earthquake. This is what makes it admittedly better than Toxapex on this list - it can hit the typing that gives it trouble unless they have an ability or typing which can mitigate Ground-type moves entirely, making it less of a passive threat. As well as this, after Mega Evolving it is immune to Toxic due to its added Steel typing, making it less prone to being worn down. However, it does fear burns.

Wall of calcs:
Offensively:
8 Atk Buzzwole Earthquake vs. 248 HP / 8 Def Groudon-Primal: 152-180 (37.7 - 44.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
8 Atk Buzzwole Lunge vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Golisopod: 102-121 (28.8 - 34.2%) -- 3.4% chance to 3HKO
8 Atk Buzzwole Lunge vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Kartana: 96-114 (37 - 44%) -- guaranteed 3HKO (Metagrossite)
Defensively:
252+ Atk Golisopod Liquidation vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Buzzwole in Heavy Rain: 130-154 (31.1 - 36.9%) -- 73.5% chance to 3HKO
252 Atk Kartana Sacred Sword vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Buzzwole: 108-127 (25.8 - 30.4%) -- guaranteed 4HKO (Lopunnite)
252+ Atk Aerilate Zygarde Return vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Buzzwole: 100-118 (23.9 - 28.2%) -- 94.6% chance to 4HKO
252+ Atk Aerilate Landorus-Therian Return vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Buzzwole: 118-141 (28.2 - 33.8%) -- 0.6% chance to 3HKO
252 Atk Tough Claws Excadrill Drill Run vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Buzzwole: 84-99 (20.1 - 23.7%) -- guaranteed 5HKO


Marshadow from A+ to S (Metagrossite, Lucarionite) (Placed preferably above Groudon-Primal)

I cannot stress this enough... Marshadow is an incredibly overcentralizing Pokemon, finding its spot on many teams due to its STAB moves being unresisted, making its remaining two slots free to pick whatever it wants to 'choose' its counters. It almost single-handedly removes the viability of Hyper Offense from the tier, forcing teams to either place rather passive threats to attempt to wall it, or forcing them to build their teams around putting offensive pressure on Marshadow so that it finds it difficult to switch in. Whilst this could be a possibility in theory, Marshadow's decent bulk with a Metagrossite stone (see: outspeeding Kartana is a thing) allows it to switch-in on neutral threats at least once and potentially ruin their sweep by stealing boosts with Spectral Thief or outright knocking them out. And if it comes in unharmed... it becomes stupendously difficult to even slay the thing without -atespeed users to come in on its attacks or sacking something off entirely. Against hyper offense, Marshadow doesn't even need boosts to sweep, it just needs the help of Psychic Terrain to negate opposing -atespeed users. It can even run Ice Punch if Zygarde is a problem, which cleanly OHKOs even if it has mega evolved. Defensively, whilst there are a lot more checks, and a new one in Aggronite Buzzwole, not one set can outright counter Marshadow. Even Arceus-Fairy fails to counter it - its chance to OHKO uninvested Marshadow is very small, making it risky to use against Bulk Up Poison Jab variants, and if it carries Will-o-wisp over Earth Power, it finds itself deadweight vs Pdon, another incredibly strong threat. Even Buzzwole, which is barely 3HKO'd by Close Combat, can lose to Sub Bulk Up sets in a matchup where it switches in, despite access to a deceptively powerful Earthquake and Lunge to remove Marshadow's attack boosts, being used as setup fodder. With its various movepool options and the ability to select its counters, Marshadow has estabilished itself as the top threat in MnM currently.

If you dislike risking your Marshadow to other Marshadow, putting 40 EVs into HP is an option to avoid the OHKO from Arceus-Fairy's Judgment.

Wall of calcs:
252 Atk Tough Claws Marshadow Close Combat vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Buzzwole: 118-141 (28.2 - 33.8%) -- 0.6% chance to 3HKO
8 Atk Buzzwole Lunge vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Marshadow: 34-40 (10.5 - 12.4%) -- possible 9HKO
8 Atk Buzzwole Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Marshadow: 114-135 (35.5 - 42%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
8 Atk Buzzwole Earthquake vs. +1 0 HP / 0 Def Marshadow: 77-91 (23.9 - 28.3%) -- 95.6% chance to 4HKO
8 Atk Buzzwole Earthquake vs. +2 0 HP / 0 Def Marshadow: 57-68 (17.7 - 21.1%) -- possible 5HKO (Marshadow sets up a Substitute here and avoids Lunge attack decreases) (Possible maximum damage disregarding critical hits if spamming Earthquake: 49.4%)
+2 252 Atk Tough Claws Marshadow Close Combat vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Buzzwole: 237-279 (56.8 - 66.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+2 252 Atk Tough Claws Marshadow Spectral Thief vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Buzzwole: 178-210 (42.6 - 50.3%) -- 1.2% chance to 2HKO
+1 252 Atk Tough Claws Marshadow Poison Jab vs. 252 HP / 240+ Def Arceus-Fairy: 224-264 (50.4 - 59.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
0 SpA Pixie Plate Arceus-Fairy Judgment vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Marshadow: 278-330 (86.6 - 102.8%) -- 12.5% chance to OHKO
0 SpA Pixie Plate Arceus-Fairy Judgment vs. 40 HP / 4 SpD Marshadow: 278-330 (83.9 - 99.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO - You saw it here first, folks!


Highlord has already addressed my concerns involving Golisopod, so I am fine where it is ranked right now. Moving on...

Weavile from A+ to A/A- (Glalitite, Lucarionite)

Despite being one of the best revenge killers in the tier, Weavile finds itself in a difficult spot in terms of viability. With the rise of Arceus-Fairy and Magearna as bulky offense staples, as well as the usage of Togekiss, Weavile has had its niche over other -atespeed users cut by a large margin. Its weakness to Stealth Rocks also makes it have a limited lifespan against However, it has another niche that no other priority revenge killer has - access to Pursuit. This makes Weavile a lot more tricky to play around as it can use Pursuit to eliminate threats on low HP - however, it can also fire back at Weavile, usually relegating this job to be used on Pokemon that are slower than it and have no priority. However, its fantastic 145 speed tier makes it no slouch on the field - forcing common stallbreakers such as Xurkitree into 50/50 scenarios, where one wrong move could KO it entirely. On the other side of the equation, Pursuit isn't as strong as it initially appears, making it difficult to use over other priority moves, giving Weavile somewhat of a 4 moveslot syndrome. With the additions of Aggronite to the meta, and Altarianite unleashing soon, Weavile may find itself in a downward spiral in the metagame...

Wall of calcs:
Pursuits (@ 80 BP):
252 Atk Weavile Pursuit vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Manaphy: 153-181 (44.7 - 52.9%) -- 27.3% chance to 2HKO
252 Atk Weavile Pursuit vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Zygarde: 114-135 (31.8 - 37.7%) -- 90.7% chance to 3HKO
252 Atk Weavile Pursuit vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Genesect: 135-160 (47.7 - 56.5%) -- 88.3% chance to 2HKO

I would have also nominated Keldeo back to B+, however, the impending release of Altarianite will do it in, unfortunately.

Other minor nominations:

Aggronite -> B on the Stone rankings.
Add Gyaradosite to Mew
Mimikyu from B+ -> B-
Giratina-O
from Unranked -> B-


My next group of nominations will be submitted when Altarianite releases.
 
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Chople Berry for Arceus so it can 1v1 Marshadow (not necessarily all marshadows in all situations, just from neutral ground and a standard set) imo

EDIT: to avoid double posting

Heatran @ Latiasite -> B-:

Upsides:

-Great defensive typing resisting all three available ates as well as normal and fire and providing immunities to ground and toxic.
-Because of this it has the useful ability to sponge explosions
-Magma Storm and Taunt allow it to work well as a trapper. Because Gengar-Mega has no bulk and Dugtrio can only trap until it mega evolves it's got little competition in this regard.
-Good special attack and coverage allow it to be a decent special wallbreaker with Earth Power and Overheat
-can set rocks if your team needs a rock setter

Downsides:

-Dies to Marshadow
-Dies to any offensive water type
-walled by Zapdos and Blissey, although Taunt, Toxic and rocks can annoy non-Sablenite sets
-the opponent can switch out before Magma Storm is used

Notes:

-Gyaradosite could also be an option, allowing you to Toxic sablenite users at the expense of a subjectively worse defensive typing and lower special attack.
-Lava Plume could ostensibly be used to mess with switchins if you don't run Magma Storm
also by what I said earlier I did not mean that Mega Gengar is unviable.

EDIT: Ampharosite is also an option

EDIT 2: run Ampharosite
 
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Diancite -> B

leaves you weak to revenge killing and the ability doesn't synergize well with certain attackers as well as other stones can. Not saying it's bad, but it's not really better than Red Orb for example

Gyaradosite for Toxapex if added: allows you to set up on sablenite users

EDIT: wow, this is a slow thread. Another thing: leave Weavile where it is, it's revenge killing power is insane being able to revenge kill atespeed users
 
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(posted because Mark K said he'd post his changes later)
devised a preliminary list, feel free to advise my changes as they are very early in
S rank:
Zygarde: (Incredible diversity and ease of sweep with the Altarianite sets)
Groudon-Primal: (Alike to Zygarde, but is more defensive and supportive in its potential roles)
A+ rank:
Blissey: (An amazing glue and switchin to almost every special attacker there is, especially if unboosted. This Pokemon is very irritating to deal with due to its immense special bulk.)
Tapu Lele: (The Diancite stone has made having a Steel-type on the team fairly mandatory. However, piss poor defences and the limited life of terrain make this Pokemon a one-shot chance. Changed rank to A. CM sets can also break through Blissey despite the limited life of psyterrain, and lacking walls as well as a very high speed tier make Lele a potential candidate for A+.)
A rank:
Magearna: (Incredible diversity in its sets and the ability to blanket check the majority of setup in the tier, as well as the majority of special attackers make this mon a fantastic glue and the removal of all Xerneas problems you ever have. Moved to A+, CM Split Cameruptite sets are extremely effective at stalling out opposing defensive cores and acting as a wincon, making Magearna an incredible pick for any team. Moved back to A, community input suggests that Magearna is easy to chip and therefore dispatch on offense, which is a rising trend at the moment.)
Arceus-Ground: (Ditto. You know this Pokemon by now. Best Groudon-Primal check in the game, capable of offensive pressure due to its Ground STAB.)
Zapdos: (Altarianite hit this mon quite hard, but it still checks and supports the team with momentum and anti-hazard support)
Kartana: (Altarianite might have made this mon better but I find it was quite overhyped earlier in the gen. With the decline of Zapdos, it can threaten teams very easily, and can also run a set of lures, such as Glalitite and Pinsirite.)
Arceus-Fairy: (Similar role of checking the majority of Fighting-types in the tier as well as being a very good check for Zygarde.)
Deoxys-Speed: (Sets up Stealth Rock every damn game if a Gyaradosite variant is present, and will often set up Spikes if the opponent doesn’t have a Magearna on their side)
Keldeo: (An incredibly powerful breaker that defeats most Supportceus with just its STAB moves, and another claimer of the title of 2hkoing PDon. Taunt sets can also shut down traditional counters such as Toxapex.)
A- rank:
Xerneas: (It’s fucking Xerneas.)
Manaphy: (Unfortunately, the release of Diancite and Altarianite have made this pixie’s life very difficult, as it finds itself commonly revenge killed by the majority of teams. It also finds fewer setup opportunities, due to the more offensively inclined metagame.)
Raikou: (to summarize, it’s an incredibly strong breaker that only PDon can really resist, and even then, Blissey can lose to Sub + CM. However, it’s fairly slow for the current metagame.)
Buzzwole: (An incredible wall for the majority of -atespeed users, using its fantastic 107/189 defenses as well as an incredible defensive typing. However, it falls quite easily to special attackers and mainly Substitutes, despite being the least passive of walls.)
Toxapex: (Latiasite gave it life, and now it acts as an incredibly good check to the Fighting-types in the tier. Oh, and it counters the two Fire/Fairies as well!)
Entei: (Zygarde can kinda screw this mon over, but Sacred Fire and a very strong 155 Attack Pixilate Extremespeed can be very hard to deal with even at neutral.)
Terrakion: (Teams are much more prepped for this mon, and Zygarde is on every team with the Altarianite stone, really hitting this Pokemon hard. It was incredibly difficult to deal with before, but I think its glory days are over.)
Weavile: (Explained by the community. Weavile is overrated. The meta also hates it at the moment. However, the ease of revenge killing where Tapu Lele does not exist and respectable damage output make Weavile a threat in the current metagame.)
Gengar: A- (after 22nd of September, however it is as it was on the old VR for now, as it'll get access to Zap Cannon to compliment Hex.)
B+ rank:
Arceus-Ghost: (It’s back. A difficult sweeper to break, but with the introduction of Marshadow, its life might get a little harder.)
Skarmory: (Entei isn’t seen much anymore, and most variants are quite easily defeated due to the rise of Electric types and more Red Orb users popping up. However, the mix of hazard and defog support cannot be denied.)
Tapu Koko: (A bit stuck on this one. Open to rising it to A-.)
Mew: (Mew is an all and everything Pokemon, and a rather tough support to break at that. If you want a Fighting resist and have your Arc forme taken, this is most likely your next best bet.)
Genesect: (opportunity cost sucks but +1 Techno Blast hurts like anything, and Explosion is basically a 1-1 trade. New sets in the form of Pidgeotite keep the great typing Genesect has, and also invalidate previous switchins to other sets such as Zapdos.)
Togekiss: (See: Mark K)
Landorus-Therian: (I’ll need more experience with this mon to say more about it, but I do think that this is B+ material.)
Volcarona: (The fall of Pinsirite has made this mon inadvertedly better and a lot tougher to take down after a +1 boost. Bulkarona sets (Cameruptite) have also made a splash, and can hit much harder with their coverage. Fire Blast even 2HKOs offensive variants of Groudon-Primal! Open to moving this within the whole of B.)
Thundurus: (An excellent balance breaker due to its high speed, nuclear base 190 Special Attack, and access to Thunder and Focus Blast allows it to break through most teams without a problem.)
B rank:
Hippowdon: (Immense physical defenses and a resistance to Fire with the Venusaurite stone make Hippowdon a tough cookie to break, allowing it to blanket check the majority of physical attackers, such as Entei, Groudon-Primal, and even Zygarde. However, it suffers from being passive a lot of the time due to induced burns from these checks and needs to stall them out a lot of the time.)
Giratina-O: (A decent defensive typing and an insane stat distribution of 150/100/100, Giratina-O can act as a blanket check for Orb based attackers, and support the team with Defog. However, its limited lifespan makes its job difficult, as it cannot repeatedly check what it needs to.)
Golisopod: (See: Ruins of Alpha/Highlord)
Yveltal: (Altarianite fucked this mon big time.) (not sure where Arcanine lands either. Haven’t seen it on ladder at all, but I’m sure it has a lot of usability.)#
Jirachi: (Good utility in the forms of Wish, Stealth Rock, Healing Wish and U-turn allows Jirachi to fit on balance teams as a status spreader with the Ampharosite stone. It also acts as one of the only switchins to Tapu Lele, making it a prime pick for balance.)
Excadrill: (Ability to defeat common HO leads and also set up Stealth Rocks in the face of Magic Bounce makes this mon a very good anti-meta Pokemon. However, I am yet to experiment with –atespin sets.)
Ho-oh: (Unsure, but I’ve seen Banded Ho-oh put in a lot of work vs other teams.)
Lunala: (Whilst the Scarf variant admittedly sucks, the Specs variant is incredibly tough for offense to wall, 2HKOing the majority of Pokemon other than specially defensive Zapdos, Magearna and Blissey. However, the common usage of these Pokemon and Lunala’s low speed tier doesn’t really put it that high.)
Xurkitree: (Won me the only game of OMPL, so sure, I’ll take this)
Cresselia: (Mark K has the majority of the reasoning for this Pokemon.)
Arceus-Water: (Need a few more reasons for this mon. Can’t quite get them at the moment, but I’m sure it’s still B+ worthy)
Kyogre-Primal: (Extremely good balance breaker. Substitute sets can give teams a nightmare, but Red Orb users really do screw it over.)
B- rank:
Arceus: (EKiller is dead. However, I am sure that it still has a niche in MnM. Open to moving it to C+.)
Rayquaza: (Really unsure about this one. Altarianite nerfs it… maybe???)
Mantine: (Also unsure.)
Metagross: (Fairly good offensive SR lead on HO teams. Doesn’t really do much else other than take lives 1-1 however. Open to moving this mon anywhere B and lower.)
Mimikyu: (Again, I lack reasoning on this Pokemon.)
Shuckle: (Shuckle.)
Venusaur: (see my post on it in my RMT for a more detailed description, both have a very similar role and have very minor differences in their sets, so I'd count them as one Pokemon altogether (as summarised by Mark K, Roserade sukc)
Cobalion: (I need a bit more reasoning for the Diancite set, but it works well as an offensive pivot to say the least.)
C+ rank:
Zygarde-Complete: (this needs to scale similarly to Giratina in my opinion, if this is getting a rank Gira is rising)
C rank:
Garchomp: (Also really unsure about this mon. Does it still have a niche?)
Giratina: (Unsure. However, Zygarde could put this mon out of stall for good.)
Arceus-Steel
Nihilego: (Latiasite gives Nihilego a much needed immunity, but a boosted Zygarde can easily take one down. Unsure about this nomination.)
Marshadow: (Seems like a fairly good breaker with Marshadium Z, but both sets fall flat due to the higher speed tier of the metagame. Changed to C-. Changed again to C.)
C- rank:
Solgaleo: (A Z-splash set on webs is incredibly lethal… if it can set up.)
Kyogre: (Only lethal in the right circumstances, but it can work exceptionally well vs weatherless teams.
D rank:
(nothing here because D rank sukc, unless you want to nom Breloom for this spot)
Unranks: Vaporeon, Salamence, Shedinja, Arceus-Dark (fairy-types really screwed this mon over), Arceus-Rock (no relevant niche in the current metagame)

Do not be surprised when this turns into an even bigger wall of text. I'll be having detailed reasoning for each Pokemon later on tomorrow. Those which have been striked through are unranked.

Update 2: Format change

Update 3: Gengar's preliminary ranking changed to A-, Tapu Lele changed to A+. Magearna moved back down to A.

Update 4: Added Jirachi to B.

This VRs subrankings have been finalized - I may move things around in the subranks, but I do not think I can go into such detail with the nominations. Requesting council to consider this as the current VR.

every time you ignore this post Magearna slowly starts to find itself in S rank by virtue of the VR creators being biased
 
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I disagree with Marshadow and Kyogre being worse than Giratina, Muk and Ditto: Marshadow still has good utility despite low speed (run scarf of sash), meanwhile pdon and other desoland users can be removed. Also, since it doesn't need to set up, just switch in a Zygarde or something.

my nominations including already stated ones, assuming Marshadow is banned (if not ignore Marsh and Arceus-Fairy and instead put Marshadow in S):

Heatran UR -> B- (Ampharosite, Gyaradosite)
Toxapex UR -> B- (Gyaradosite, Ampharosite)
Cresselia A- -> B+ (mostly because power creep)
Marshadow A+ -> B- (Focus Sash, possibly other items but that's my recommendation)
Buzzwole UR -> A- (Aggronite) (I thought this was added ages ago)
Primal Groudon S -> A+ (was only S-worthy because of smaller metagame)
Shedinja C -> UR (it's a meme)
Salamence C -> UR (see Shedinja)
Zygarde-C -> B- (looks much more at home there)
Tapu Lele B -> A (very powerful if a bit of a momentum sap)
leave Weavile in A+
Arceus-Fairy A -> A-
(lost niche after marsh ban)
Arceus-Dark B- -> C (is psychic spam that big of a deal? also, loses to altarianite as pointed out above)
Diancite for Xurkitree (speed boost helps)
Charizardite X for Mimikyu (Mimikyu is useful in webs teams but doesn't need the speed there) (or meet me halfway with lucarionite at least)
 
I disagree with Marshadow and Kyogre being worse than Giratina, Muk and Ditto: Marshadow still has good utility despite low speed (run scarf of sash), meanwhile pdon and other desoland users can be removed. Also, since it doesn't need to set up, just switch in a Zygarde or something.

my nominations including already stated ones, assuming Marshadow is banned (if not ignore Marsh and Arceus-Fairy and instead put Marshadow in S):

Heatran UR -> B- (Ampharosite, Gyaradosite)
Toxapex UR -> B- (Gyaradosite, Ampharosite)
Cresselia A- -> B+ (mostly because power creep)
Marshadow A+ -> B- (Focus Sash, possibly other items but that's my recommendation)
Buzzwole UR -> A- (Aggronite) (I thought this was added ages ago)
Primal Groudon S -> A+ (was only S-worthy because of smaller metagame)
Shedinja C -> UR (it's a meme)
Salamence C -> UR (see Shedinja)
Zygarde-C -> B- (looks much more at home there)
Tapu Lele B -> A (very powerful if a bit of a momentum sap)
leave Weavile in A+
Arceus-Fairy -> A-
(lost niche after marsh ban)
Diancite for Xurkitree (speed boost helps)
Charizardite X for Mimikyu (Mimikyu is useful in webs teams but doesn't need the speed there) (or meet me halfway with lucarionite at least)
Marshadow has been banned. I can admit that I went and ranked it a bit lower than expected.
Buzzwole - I'm actually quite shocked I missed this. Adding to B+.
Marshadow - Focus Sash sets suck, simple as. If the opponent has Stealth Rock up you're probably not going to do anything that match. However, I'll agree that I did put it down a bit too much, but I still don't believe it's any more than C rank.
Zygarde-Complete - I discussed being at C+, but I don't quite have enough evidence to prove that it can be useful on bulkier teams. Ignoring for now.
Weavile - M A G E A R N A. You can't break through shit with it, you have to predict Pursuit trapping if you want to get anywhere with Weavile. Keeping in its place.
Arceus-Fairy - Whilst it might have lost its niche as a check to Marshadow, it checks other lethal Fighting-types... as well as checking the omnipotent Zygarde. Its niche is still very prominent in the metagame. Keeping at A.
Heatran - I have yet to feel anything about. Stallbreaker sets are cool, and Latiasite sets can do quite a bit of utility for the team, but there are other, much better Steel-types for the team, and Gyara sets have yet to be seen putting in work vs bulkier teams. Considering to rank C+, but I'll need more evidence.
Cresselia - I'm on the fence with this one. Exclusivity of the treasured Sablenite stone definitely leaves Cresselia a bit high and dry, and with the addition of Magearna, it kinda falls flat when trying to sweep. However... it is a fairly good wincon, almost necessitating something which can deal with it on a team, such as a Ghost-type attacker, and with the departure of Marshadow as a prominent Pokemon, I do not think Cresselia should drop this time around.
Groudon-Primal - If you said this within the Marshadow meta I would agree with you. However, there are no standout Pokemon in this meta, and therefore, due to the amount of roles Groudon-Primal can fulfill, I would still consider keeping it at S rank.
About Zardite X - Lucarionite and Metagrossite are much better stones because they keep the incredible typing Mimikyu has. Adding Zardite X wouldn't be advised.
Kyogre is a bit of a problematic one. I generally think the lack of an orb makes it very situational, which makes it deserving of a rank, but the user can simply just save their wincon for Kyogre (e.g Red Orb Raikou) and leave it at that. It's very easy to manipulate, and I think it deserves a C- rank for that.

Good discussion, otherwise. Keep it up.
 
Changes in Bold

(posted because Mark K said he'd post his changes later)
devised a preliminary list, feel free to advise my changes as they are very early in
Zygarde: S (Incredible diversity and ease of sweep with the Altarianite sets)
Groudon-Primal: S (Alike to Zygarde, but is more defensive and supportive in its potential roles) (find A+ mons when?)

Zapdos: A (Altarianite hit this mon quite hard, but it still checks and supports the team with momentum and anti-hazard support)
Kartana: A (Not as metabreaking as it used to be, Aggronite makes almost anything wall Kartana, still one of the best physical attackers in the meta though. Whenever Chloe decides to free blazikenite, it'll probably rise up to A+, or maybe even S)
Magearna: A+ (Incredible diversity in its sets and the ability to blanket check the majority of setup in the tier, as well as the majority of special attackers make this mon a fantastic glue and the removal of all Xerneas problems you ever have. Moved to A+, CM Split Cameruptite sets are extremely effective at stalling out opposing defensive cores and acting as a wincon, making Magearna an incredible pick for any team.)
Arceus-Fairy: A (See below, these two are as good as supportceus get)
Arceus-Ground: A (Standard Supportceus, it's good and reliable, fits everywhere, great mon)
Deoxys-Speed: A (Sets up Stealth Rock every damn game if a Gyaradosite variant is present, and will often set up Spikes if the opponent doesn’t have a Magearna on their side)
Gengar: A (after 22nd of September, however it is as it was on the old VR for now, as it'll get access to Zap Cannon to compliment Hex.)
Keldeo: A (An incredibly powerful breaker that defeats most Supportceus with just its STAB moves, and another claimer of the title of 2hkoing PDon. Taunt sets can also shut down traditional counters such as Toxapex.)
Blissey: A+ (As good as it gets sp.def wise, this thing tanks hits from anything, can cripple several mons, set up rocks, heal allies and status or just straight out stall them)
Tapu Lele: A (The Diancite stone has made having a Steel-type on the team fairly mandatory. However, piss poor defences and the limited life of terrain make this Pokemon a one-shot chance. Changed rank to A...)
Cresselia: B (Very limited recovery and a not so great typing make Cress weaker than other more reliable and useful walls like Zapdos, Supportceus or Blissey, still a good setup sweeper and can still take hits)
Xerneas: A- (It’s fucking Xerneas.)
Manaphy: A- (Unfortunately, the release of Diancite and Altarianite have made this pixie’s life very difficult, as it finds itself commonly revenge killed by the majority of teams. It also finds fewer setup opportunities, due to the more offensively inclined metagame.)
Raikou: A- (A- fits it perfectly, it destroys anything that's slower than it with the right set, or it can be pivoted out of a bad matchup, speed sucks though)
Toxapex: A- (Latiasite gave it life, and now it acts as an incredibly good check to the Fighting-types in the tier. Oh, and it counters the two Fire/Fairies as well!)
Entei: A- (Zygarde can kinda screw this mon over, but Sacred Fire and a very strong 155 Attack Pixilate Extremespeed can be very hard to deal with even at neutral.)
Arceus-Ghost: B+ (I've rarely seen it get any use but seems easily walled by Blissey or Aggronite Buzzwole or any WoW user not named Giratina)
Weavile: A- (I don't think this is as overrated as people make it seem, Weavile is still a very powerful late game sweeper, it can setup, pursuit trap, or just use faster priority to take down opposing wincons like nothing else does, it's a must on HO teams and also has some versatility because aside from glalitite, it can also utilize stones such as Pinsirite or Altarianite)
Arceus-Water: B- (Great defensive typing, but easily overshadowed by the other Supportceus, Will-O-Wisp variant might have some use though)
Buzzwole: A- (With Aggronite this thing becomes able to wall anything that tries to use physical damage, like really, aside from Entei, no physical attacker is breaking through this thing (Unless you use Coil Zygarde, but you shouldn't use Coil Zygarde so whatever))
Mimikyu: B- (Meh, not as good as other pokemon in B+, very rare sight in respectable player's teams)
Skarmory: B+ (Entei isn’t seen much anymore, and most variants are quite easily defeated due to the rise of Electric types and more Red Orb users popping up. However, the mix of hazard and defog support cannot be denied.)
Tapu Koko: B+ (A bit stuck on this one. Open to rising it to A-.)
Togekiss: B+ (See: Mark K)
Terrakion: A- (While teams are more ready to take on this thing, when used carefully it can still break teams apart with the right set, though it can no longer just threaten a whole team when it's on the field)
Landorus-Therian: B+ (I’ll need more experience with this mon to say more about it, but I do think that this is B+ material.)
Golisopod: B (See: Ruins of Alpha/Highlord)
(not sure where Zygarde-Complete lands)
Genesect: B (opportunity cost sucks but +1 Techno Blast hurts like anything, and Explosion is basically a 1-1 trade. Open to moving this Pokemon to B+.)
Yveltal: B (Altarianite fucked this mon big time.) (not sure where Arcanine lands either. Haven’t seen it on ladder at all, but I’m sure it has a lot of usability.)
Excadrill: B (Ability to defeat common HO leads and also set up Stealth Rocks in the face of Magic Bounce makes this mon a very good anti-meta Pokemon. However, I am yet to experiment with –atespin sets.)
Ho-oh: B (Unsure, but I’ve seen Banded Ho-oh put in a lot of work vs other teams.)
Lunala: B (Whilst the Scarf variant admittedly sucks, the Specs variant is incredibly tough for offense to wall, 2HKOing the majority of Pokemon other than specially defensive Zapdos, Magearna and Blissey. However, the common usage of these Pokemon and Lunala’s low speed tier doesn’t really put it that high.)
Volcarona: B (The fall of Pinsirite has made this mon inadvertedly better and a lot tougher to take down after a +1 boost. Bulkarona sets (Cameruptite) have also made a splash, and can hit much harder with their coverage. Open to moving this within the whole of B.)
Xurkitree: B (Won me the only game of OMPL, so sure, I’ll take this)
Arceus: B- (EKiller is dead. However, I am sure that it still has a niche in MnM. Open to moving it to C+.)
Rayquaza: B-? (Really unsure about this one. Altarianite nerfs it… maybe???)
Mantine: B- (Also unsure.)
Metagross: B- (Fairly good offensive SR lead on HO teams. Doesn’t really do much else other than take lives 1-1 however. Open to moving this mon anywhere B and lower.)
Mew: B+ (This is a blank canvas, you do whatever you want with it and it fits just about any support need your team might have, it's overshadowed by some other mons who can fulfill some stuff Mew can, but this thing can pack it all in just one set)
Shuckle: B- (Shuckle.)
Thundurus: B+ (I had the chance to play around it in the suspect ladder, and it's honestly a great stallbreaker, similar to Raikou, it destroys anything slower)
Kyogre-Primal: B (B- is too harsh for Pogre, this thing can tank a few hits and pack a very hard hitting punch, can also setup sweep with CM + Sub or CM + Rest)
Venusaur: B- (Has some use, can be a nightmare to unprepared teams, can even break through Blissey if played right. Roserade is shit though, C at max)
Garchomp: C+? (Also really unsure about this mon. Does it still have a niche?
Giratina: B+ (Great wall, great utility, walls a lot of shit now that Marshadow is gone, could even rise up if players realize just how strong this thing is)
Muk-A: Unrank? (as for now, keep it at C, I need more evidence)
Arceus-Steel: C
Arceus-Rock: Unranked (Pinsirite is way less now, there are much better Arceus forms)
Cobalion: B- (It works really well pivoting with the Diancite set, quite underwhelming when it comes to raw power though)
Nihilego: C (Latiasite gives Nihilego a much needed immunity, but a boosted Zygarde can easily take one down. Unsure about this nomination.
Solgaleo: C- (A Z-splash set on webs is incredibly lethal… if it can set up.)
Kyogre: C- (Only lethal in the right circumstances, but it can work exceptionally well vs weatherless teams.
Marshadow: C (Seems like a fairly good breaker with Marshadium Z, but both sets fall flat due to the higher speed tier of the metagame. Changed to C-. Changed again to C.)
Unranks: Vaporeon, Shedinja, Arceus-Dark (fairy-types really screwed this mon over)
Salamence: C (It's honestly as good as the other B- threats, it can be very threatening with Dragon Dance but sadly loses to anything using pixiespeed)
Overall, it is very clear that the meta is no longer centralizing around Marshadow and its counters, giving space to creative minds and a spot for some unseen mons to see some light.

E: typos

E: made some changes after discussing with Chazm on discord
 
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Changes in Bold



Overall, it is very clear that the meta is no longer centralizing around Marshadow and its counters, giving space to creative minds and a spot for some unseen mons to see some light.

E: typos
I agree with the majority of these nominations, bar Giratina, Arceus-Water and Buzzwole. I find A- for Giratina to be way too high because of the momentum it saps when switching in, and A for Buzzwole to be too high due to notable weaknesses to Fire which can bypass the amazing type it gets, as well as special attackers piercing through its armor. However, I think more discussion on both Arceus-Water and Buzzwole should suffice, as I am open to changing them. Waterceus I think I need a bit more discussion on, despite the bad opportunity cost, as it can use its handy typing more offensively than other Arceus formes, acting as a counter to Arceus-Ground support formes. Although, I will admit, a lot of attackers it's supposed to resist do hit it in a hard spot.

Two new Pokemon I forgot to nominate: Giratina-O and Hippowdon to B. Giratina-O is a great offensive supporter, with its amazing 150/100/100 bulk and decent typing, it can act against PDon and other orb based attackers. Oh yeah, and it's one of the only few walls to Keldeo. Hippowdon got nominated for much the same reason - its Venusaurite set allows it to take on every single Red Orb user barring Venusaur and Roserade, and its immense physical bulk allows it to be a blanket check to the majority of physical attackers in the tier, such as Entei, Groudon-Primal, and even Zygarde at times. I'm open to nominating it much higher - I think Hippo has a lot of potential, and I want to see that in games.

More discussion needed: Salamence (the reason I unranked it is because Pixispeed is on almost every team at this point, or at least something that revenge kills it), Garchomp (still need to confirm a place on this), Buzzwole and Giratina
 
what's the Diancite Cobalion set?
Cobalion @ Diancite
Ability: Justified
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Iron Head
- Close Combat
- Volt Switch
- Stealth Rock

It is lacking in strength compared to some of the other big threats in the tier but it can revenge or force a switch vs a lot of them such as tapu lele, terrakion, kartana etc while also giving you the chance to gain momentum with volt switch. It also forces out blissey and can bounce back an attempted toxic and put the pressure on and force heal bell pp use which could be huge depending on the matchup. Diancite Cobalion isn't a top tier threat, but it is very good at its job.
 
Cobalion @ Diancite
Ability: Justified
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Iron Head
- Close Combat
- Volt Switch
- Stealth Rock

It is lacking in strength compared to some of the other big threats in the tier but it can revenge or force a switch vs a lot of them such as tapu lele, terrakion, kartana etc while also giving you the chance to gain momentum with volt switch. It also forces out blissey and can bounce back an attempted toxic and put the pressure on and force heal bell pp use which could be huge depending on the matchup. Diancite Cobalion isn't a top tier threat, but it is very good at its job.
Swords Dance is usually used over Stealth Rocks to make up for the lack of damage as you mentioned. If it gets to setup, using its speed it can be a very threatening late game sweeper.
 

Chloe

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The council has completed a major overhaul of the Viability Ranking to be more accurate with the current metagame. There's still a few contestable issues with some ranks and some preferred Mega Stones, but this should definitely reflect the metagame a lot better than it did before.

Thank you all for your input and feedback!
 
Cresseila and Mimikyu in B-? This has to be a joke. After the marshadow ban bulky setup has gotten way better. Cresseila sets up on so much and is so hard to stop, it deserves to be way higher than stuff like kyorge and excadrill. Cresseila B- -> B+.
Mimikyu is great on offensive teams. It gets a free sd before mega evolving and now there are even less mons to outspeed and threaten it. It stops a sweep and then threatens to destroy your opponent in return. Mimikyu B- -> B
Entei A- -> B+. This thing faces a lot of competition from Zygarde and in no way deserves to be higher than genesect, which gets shift gear and download pre-mega. Sacred Fire is nice, but relying on howl as a setup move is a huge deterrent.
Suicune UR -> C+ Aggronite Suicune is really good, water/steel is a nice typing renderring suicune immune to toxic, while filter makes it really hard to break. Rest CM is solid, and deserves a mention in the viability rankings.
 
Why is gira only C when it walls every support arc Except fairy, gene, Pdon, Raikou, goli, Terrak, blissey, Kartana, zapdos, every koko set except altariate, keldeo, some entei set and etc.
I know it's lack of reliable recovery hurts it's viability, but with such an amazing bulk and typing, rest is good enough. Rest also eliminates status, which just helps it shit on bulky walls even more with pressure.
It's better than it's shit clone, so at least B would be nice for now
Cresseila and Mimikyu in B-? This has to be a joke. After the marshadow ban bulky setup has gotten way better. Cresseila sets up on so much and is so hard to stop, it deserves to be way higher than stuff like kyorge and excadrill. Cresseila B- -> B+.
Mimikyu is great on offensive teams. It gets a free sd before mega evolving and now there are even less mons to outspeed and threaten it. It stops a sweep and then threatens to destroy your opponent in return. Mimikyu B- -> B
Entei A- -> B+. This thing faces a lot of competition from Zygarde and in no way deserves to be higher than genesect, which gets shift gear and download pre-mega. Sacred Fire is nice, but relying on howl as a setup move is a huge deterrent.
Suicune UR -> C+ Aggronite Suicune is really good, water/steel is a nice typing renderring suicune immune to toxic, while filter makes it really hard to break. Rest CM is solid, and deserves a mention in the viability rankings.
Agree with this a lot
 
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Why is gira only C when it walls every support arc Except fairy, gene, Pdon, Raikou, goli, Terrak, blissey, Kartana, zapdos, every koko set except altariate, keldeo, some entei set and etc.
I know it's lack of reliable recovery hurts it's viability, but with such an amazing bulk and typing, rest is good enough. Rest also eliminates status, which just helps it shit on bulky walls even more with pressure.
It's better than it's shit clone, so at least B would be nice for now

Agree with this a lot
Also, you didn’t mention that Giratina’s main threat that caused it to be less good has now been recently banned from holding Stones. This makes it a lot better than it was during the Marshadow meta. I support Giratina for B