M&M Mix and Mega

S Rank

Pdon wins 1v1? Works as a check as well.
252+ Atk Groudon Precipice Blades vs. 220 HP / 0 Def Deoxys-Speed: 250-295 (84.4 - 99.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+2 76+ SpA Deoxys-Speed Psycho Boost vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Groudon-Primal: 405-477 (100.2 - 118%) -- guaranteed OHKO
A Rank


A+
Deo S 1v1 ?
252+ SpA Deoxys-Speed Zap Cannon vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Golisopod: 310-366 (87.5 - 103.3%) -- 25% chance to OHKO
DeoS wins 1v1
Does not check (Nasty Plot, Zap Cannon, Psycho Boost, etc)
A
Does not check. +2 Psycho Boost OHKOs
Does not check. +2 Psycho Boost OHKOs
Does not check. +2 Focus Blast wins
-
DeoS wins 1v1 unless Gene has a +1 boost and espeed
DeoS wins 1v1
DeoS wins 1v1
DeoS wins 1v1
50/50 on Sucker Play
252+ SpA Deoxys-Speed Zap Cannon vs. 0 HP / 24 SpD Yveltal: 332-392 (84.4 - 99.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
DeoS wins 1v1 if Zyg has essentially any prior damage, otherwise Zyg wins 1v1 if both at full:
252 SpA Deoxys-Speed Psycho Boost vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Zygarde: 286-337 (80.1 - 94.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Pixilate Zygarde Extreme Speed vs. 0 HP / 8 Def Deoxys-Speed: 131-155 (54.3 - 64.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO


A-
Depends on situation, not a reliable check.
Good check, lack of reliable recovery is still an issue.
Not a check.
Depends on Xerneas set. DeoS can outspeed even when Xern is +2. Also can Zap Cannon to remove Geo speed boost.
B Rank

B+
Does not check
DeoS has favorable roll to win 1v1:
252 SpA Deoxys-Speed Psycho Boost vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Entei: 348-409 (93.8 - 110.2%) -- 62.5% chance to OHKO
Does not check
If it has disguise, Mimkyu wins 1v1. Otherwise DeoS wins
Depends on set. Hoopa-U generally wins 1v1.
Deo-S wins 1v1.
DeoS wins 1v1.
Does not check
Why is this B+ rank lmao. I don't even know what to calc but this is shit in the meta anyway
B
Deo-S wins 1v1
Deo-S wins 1v1
Deo-S wins 1v1
DeoS wins 1v1
Ho-Oh wins 1v1 but cannot switch in as a check
DeoS wins 1v1
DeoS wins 1v1
DeoS wins 1v1
Lunala wins 1v1
Why is this ranked B? Anyway, DeoS wins 1v1 on a likely roll:
252 SpA Deoxys-Speed Psycho Boost vs. 0 HP / 0- SpD Rayquaza: 333-393 (95.4 - 112.6%) -- 75% chance to OHKO
DeoS wins 1v1
Depends on set/situation.


Deo-S literally beats everything else
Lots of mons can take on huge chunks of the meta, so until we get a consistent set of guidelines as to how broken a mon has to be in order to be considered for a suspect or banned, we'll have to stick with the current method of picking current relevant mons that the community decides to debate around and hoping for the best. or hoping for Chloe to make a dictator move
banning zap cannon would also fix the issue
Doesn't Thunder make up for Zap Cannon in any non-hax-reliant matchups? Or is the 10BP difference too much of a hindrance?
 

thesecondbest

Just Kidding I'm First
I've been saying ban zap, but y'all laughed at me. Now it turns out people are agreeing (just like back when I called baton pass broken both in this and ou but I digress). Deo is too fast and not that frail. The ice beam set does even better vs offense but running rocks or nasty plot either lets you have more utility or even trash stall.
And primal Groudon does not beat my set, as I run enough bulk (and I just put some defense investment to beat download Genesect) to take a hit and you kill back vs spdef if nasty plot, or just kill offensive versions. Really, deo is only weak to priority, kind of like marshadow. And even the pure hazards set is good! So I would recommend a suspect
EDIT: and when i say ice beam is better vs offense, i mean you dont have to psycho boost, switch out, then come back in, allowing you to avoid hazard damage and take one espeed and deal more damage back. but i think 4th move rocks is probably best as it, along with zap cannon free para, allows you to do something at -2
 
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Deoxys-speed does well versus a lot of non priority offense and can also power through some of its defensive checks with nasty plot. But while it seems amazing it requires either a nasty plot which requires a free turn due to a forced switch or a prediction which could be risky. Even then you might have to fire off a psycho boost to get the kills you need, which will either kill or severely hamper your momentum. Another thing is that atespeed still does check Deo-s pretty well due to how after just one or two stealth rock switchins Deoxys is within range of unboosted espeeds, those switches are something that can be forced due to psycho boost drops. Something to note about the psyterrain bit is that there are only 4 turns for Deo to abuse if it switches in immediately, which is very limited considering trying to include a boosting turn, getting in Deo safely, breaking a defensive check, you can only do so much before you've vulnerable to priority again. Along with all of that if you do run a lele with Deoxys-Speed then you lose out on utilizing any other offensive threat or defensive wall, which is very limiting to your teambuilding. Deo-s seems extremely good on paper, but in practice it works as a one shot glass cannon usually that can break through some defensive threats, something that is very good at what it does but not meta breaking. If atespeed were not as common or as good as it is now with how often zygarde is seen (which is not ohko'd by unboosted psycho boost and can dragon dance against you), then maybe Deoxys speed might have to be looked at. But in the current meta it is not good enough in practice to warrant a suspect.

Oh, and zap cannon isn't getting banned/suspected, this has been discussed before and won't be discussed again.
 
252 SpA Deoxys-Speed Psycho Boost vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Landorus-Therian: 330-388 (103.4 - 121.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 SpA Deoxys-Speed Psycho Boost vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Arcanine: 330-388 (102.8 - 120.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO

mhm
Both of these run bulk investment in the current metagame. Landorus-T doesnt run full Hp, and thus does have a chance to be koed, but its not a very good ome; arcanina has no chance. There are also other limiting factors on deoxys, like even mons that dont 1v1 in can cripple it to revenge killing, or how entry hazards can turn remove its moderate -ate resistance, or how psycho boost can allow pokemon to set up on it, or even how reliant on prediction it is. There's no doubt that Deoxys-S is a potent pokemon in the metagame, but much of even that is from its hazard lead set.

Additionally, the new Mix and mega VR is out.
 

thesecondbest

Just Kidding I'm First
Both of these run bulk investment in the current metagame. Landorus-T doesnt run full Hp, and thus does have a chance to be koed, but its not a very good ome; arcanina has no chance. There are also other limiting factors on deoxys, like even mons that dont 1v1 in can cripple it to revenge killing, or how entry hazards can turn remove its moderate -ate resistance, or how psycho boost can allow pokemon to set up on it, or even how reliant on prediction it is. There's no doubt that Deoxys-S is a potent pokemon in the metagame, but much of even that is from its hazard lead set.

Additionally, the new Mix and mega VR is out.
I love how deo takes hazard damage so your espeed can kill but you don't account for rocks damage, after which both of them die.
And what is setting up against a mon that knows an attacking twave? Only ground types really, but primal Groudon can only get either an SD or a Polish on the switch, not both, so it is beatable. Zygod I guess can come in, but there are checks to zygarde that can beat it even after one DD/coil like pinsirite Metagross which I have now realized is heat.
"Mons that don't 1v1 it can cripple it" - yes the main way to beat it is to espeed twice, but deo would still get at least one kill and then give you switch initiative afterwards, so it's still a good trade for the deo user. Also this would be assuming I don't also have a tapu Lele which is a great partner for deo
 
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Simple, cool and good, this Regice, which was insignificant before mega evolved into a pidgeot, got a great offensive, with rock polish you will overcome almost all speeds of the game, and a very high sp.atk and moves who aways will hite because of no guard, but beware! You'll always be hit by stone egdes.

Regice @ Pidgeotite
Ability: Clear Body
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Blizzard
- Zap Cannon
- Focus Blast
- Rock Polish

 
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Dsiclaimer: This is my personal opinion as a MnM player, not a statement as a council member.

I'd like to talk about what is probably the most broken pokemon in the Metagame right now: Gothitelle.
upload_2017-9-27_20-29-31.png

What does Gothitelle do?
Gothitelle traps threats, clearing the way for teammates to sweep. The most common set is:
Gothitelle @ Leftovers
Ability: Shadow Tag
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpD / 4 Spe
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Calm Mind
- Psyshock
- Rest
- Taunt

This allows Gothitelle to pick off most passive pokemon; of note, support arceus, blissey, and toxapex, but it is not limited to them, s you can see here . For instance, a core of primal groudon+Gothitelle can freely click precepice blades. When the foe brings in arceus ground on primal groudon, it must either recover, and be trapped by gothitelle, or hard switch, and then be unable to switch into primal groudon again. No matter what, the gothitelle player wins, protentially even without switching in. The same goes for any other sweeper, such as trapping Blissey for Pidgeotite Gengar or Toxapex for Keldeo. Goth can also trap other pokemon depending on the team; a faster, physically defensive set with charm can freely remove Primal Groudon or zygarde (although unlike support arceus it cannot switch in), or even niche sets likechoice specs set with hidden power fire if buzzwole really needs to go, but for the purpose of this post I'll be focusing on the main set and why it's banworthy by itself.

Why does this mean Gothitelle is broken?
Simply put, trapping as a mechanic is broken, simply because it gives so little counterplay to opposing players and is largely mindless in its use at most levels of play. Unless they run a pursuit trapper (and the only good-ish one is weavile and it's still mediocre as a trapper), there is no "play" that they can make to avoid gothitelle, and even then its not in their favor. It turns some of the most vital role compression in the metagame into dead weight, and makes defensive or balanced playstyles borderline unplayable when it comes on at team preview; simply put, building such a team withotu pokemon trappable by gothitelle is almost entirely impossible without resorting to extremely niche sets. To make matters worse, the other five pokemon can pretty mcuh tailor themself entirely to beating offense, as Gothitelle handles most stall teams just by itself as long as there is even a modicum of offensive power backing it, and is still useful to trap pokemon like shuckle and/or to be used as death fodder to make sure something stays in to be set up on.

Is Gothitelle this effective in practice?
Quite simply, yes. I had a lot more replays saved up, but unfortunately I lost them with the rest of the old replays at the backup death. I do, however, still have some solid examples:
VS Ironed Sandwhich : Goth traps and Koes two pokemon, allowing me to easily sweep, and could have gone for a third or foruth but I decided to speed up since that was already enough to win me.
Vs OMPl Player ChazmicSupernove: Goth allows me to put him in a no win situtation with groundceus, removign his only real zygarde answer and winning the game despite him havign checks to every pokemon on my team.
Vs veteran player M'joe'ra: Puts him in a no win position with groundceus and Primal groudon to let me bust past his defensive core and get the win despite him having checks for my entire team.
Vs Jrdn, former MnM council member and veteran player: Traps fairyceus and just lets lunala run over his team
VS OMPl player Mark K: Shows the depths to which semistall has to go in order to remotely answer Goth (it still could have trapped his skarmory, of note), and how weak that makes it to everythign else.
Vs Mark K again: Traps and removes Arceus-ground, leaving him no real way to switch into fast offensive pokemon.

How would Gothitelle work on a team?
This is the team I've been using; it uses gothitellle to remove answer to Zygarde and Lunala on offense / zygarde and groudon on stall so they can roll over the opposing team. It's highly consistant both on aldder and in challenge. However, gtoh is both extremely powerful and verstaile, so it's by no means limited to this, or even this kind of, team.
Zygarde @ Pinsirite
Ability: Aura Break
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Dragon Dance
- Thousand Arrows
- Extreme Speed
- Outrage

Gothitelle @ Leftovers
Ability: Shadow Tag
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpD / 4 Spe
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Calm Mind
- Psyshock
- Rest
- Taunt

Arceus-Ground @ Earth Plate
Ability: Multitype
EVs: 252 HP / 240 Def / 16 Spe
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Judgment
- Recover
- Defog
- Ice Beam

Magearna @ Sablenite
Ability: Soul-Heart
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 SpD
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Fleur Cannon
- Pain Split
- Volt Switch
- Heart Swap

Lunala @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Shadow Shield
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Moongeist Beam
- Psyshock
- Moonblast
- Focus Blast

Groudon-Primal @ Red Orb
Ability: Desolate Land
EVs: 220 HP / 252 Atk / 36 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Swords Dance
- Precipice Blades
- Stealth Rock
- Stone Edge


Is there any counterplay?
There are four ways to play against gothitelle. First off, you can run hyper offense, and then hope you can win the 5 v 6 despite their team being tailored to do well. Secondly, you can try to run a defensive team that doesn't give ti any openings, but this is exceedingly difficult to do without autolosing to many common pokemon. Third, you can runa pursuit trapper and make predicitons, but this is unreliable and means you need to with the 50-50; sometimes more than once. The final way is to completely outclass your opponent in terms of skill, so that you can win without whatever pokemon it traps, usually by means of offensive pressure and taking advantage of gothitelle being somewhat passive.
 

thesecondbest

Just Kidding I'm First
But how much can Goth really trap? Let's go through the VR.
Obviously it loses to both things in S. It does trap support arceus and all blissey sets, but loses to Offensive SD arceus and magerna volt switches out. Deoxys Speed beats you if running nasty plot or taunt, and the gyaradosite set laughs its ass off. Kartana and lele also laugh at you. Xerneas outspeeds, so it can set up before you taunt it, and then moonblast for the kill (+3 moonblast from the z geo set 2hkos you even if you calm mind twice in that time, and +2 moonblast from power herb 2shots you even if you cm once). Zapdos often runs u-turn or volt switch so another thing you fail to trap. So far you only trap blissey and some arceus sets in the high VR ranks. I don't want to go through the rest, as looking at a- i see four offensive mons that beat you, and gyaradosite toxapex beats some goth sets (though it loses to yours because of taunt. however, sablenite haze pex can out pp stall you if they play smart and never let you rest).
Goth has a nice niche, but it is extremely matchup dependent and is often completely useless vs HO as you admitted, and outside of blissey and arceus, what does it trap on stall? giratina is a ghost, many mons run pivot moves, etc. Also, you have to win 50-50s with goth, as if they double on your switch to goth into an attacker, you most likely have to pick a fodder. Unless I saw 40% stall on the ladder, I would not bring goth, and I certainly do not think it is broken.
 
Gothitelle isn't a perfect 'mon and it obviously loses to hyperoffense. But the only reason why I agree with QT is that Gothitelle's Shadow Tag is just an uncompetitive way to trap and make the most important walls in the tier setup fodders. At the same time I was thinking if Dugtrio is really healthy for MnM and I am not sure about it but I can confidently say Gothitelle is surely a problem because Sablenite Blissey and Latiasite Toxapex will just be trapped and removed while Gothitelle gets to +6 using Calm Mind, severely pressuring the next switch-in that attempt to revenge kill.

Also I don't think "it is useless against hyperoffense" is the most appropriate reason if Gothitelle should not be banned because if we take a careful look at banned 'mons from Mnm in the past via suspect, we can arrive to a thought that being broken doesn't necessarily have a correlation to being able to beat every archetypes of team. Dragonite could theoretically be on control with hazard lead and offensive pressure, Pheromosa is taken out by a single priority move, Shaymin-S is revenge killed by Pinsirite / Glalitite users, and Marshadow just sucked against stall. Just because there are counterplays against these threats doesn't mean we can immediately assume they are not banworthy.

Back to Gothitelle, I would say I won't be surprised if it ends up being nominated as the next suspect target because just by existing, it immensely pressures and forces support Arceus forms, Blissey, Toxapex, or pretty much all Defog users without phazing move to think twice before switching in in the first place. After they are removed, the whole team will be susceptible to otherwise-would-be-managable-threats like Primal Groudon and other setup sweepers because they no longer have their precious defensive backbones. Pretty much Gothitelle invalidates balance teams from which each walls are vitally important.
 
I would suggest suspecting Shadow Tag and not Gothitelle, as Shadow Tag Mega Gengar is as uncompetitive as Gothitelle because it can trap and remove defensive mons as well. It not only traps, it lures in Blissey pre-mega, because Gengar is a great user of other stones as well, like Pidgeotite - which is best walled by Blissey which is immune to Hypnosis thanks to Magic Bounce.
 
It's pretty surprisng to me how apparently Gothitelle is quite uncommon (according to the OM room people I asked) in this metagame despite it being quite established on some other Ubers-like metas like Ubers itself and AG. You can also use Charm and Confide to PP stall the enemy, which comes in handy trapping more physically orientated things like Celesteela (though IDK how common that is in this).

Just as I'd wanted to post this little thought another comment caught my attention:
Also I don't think "it is useless against hyperoffense" is the most appropriate reason if Gothitelle should not be banned because if we take a careful look at banned 'mons from Mnm in the past via suspect, we can arrive to a thought that being broken doesn't necessarily have a correlation to being able to beat every archetypes of team.
What you've failed to understand here is the severity of just how badly it performs against this playstyle. It's not a case of 'None of the other suspected Pokemon can beat every style therefore Gothitelle being poor against Hyper Offense is irrelevant' but rather, 'Gothitelle is AWFUL against more offensive styles.' So ya, just wanted to correct you there.
 
I've only seen Gothitelle as a CM trapper that mega evolved after it finished something passive off. Seeing as its only recovery move is Rest its capability is diminished if Electric or Misty Terrain is up.
 
But how much can Goth really trap? Let's go through the VR.
Obviously it loses to both things in S. It does trap support arceus and all blissey sets, but loses to Offensive SD arceus and magerna volt switches out. Deoxys Speed beats you if running nasty plot or taunt, and the gyaradosite set laughs its ass off. Kartana and lele also laugh at you. Xerneas outspeeds, so it can set up before you taunt it, and then moonblast for the kill (+3 moonblast from the z geo set 2hkos you even if you calm mind twice in that time, and +2 moonblast from power herb 2shots you even if you cm once). Zapdos often runs u-turn or volt switch so another thing you fail to trap. So far you only trap blissey and some arceus sets in the high VR ranks. I don't want to go through the rest, as looking at a- i see four offensive mons that beat you, and gyaradosite toxapex beats some goth sets (though it loses to yours because of taunt. however, sablenite haze pex can out pp stall you if they play smart and never let you rest).
Goth has a nice niche, but it is extremely matchup dependent and is often completely useless vs HO as you admitted, and outside of blissey and arceus, what does it trap on stall? giratina is a ghost, many mons run pivot moves, etc. Also, you have to win 50-50s with goth, as if they double on your switch to goth into an attacker, you most likely have to pick a fodder. Unless I saw 40% stall on the ladder, I would not bring goth, and I certainly do not think it is broken.
Gothitelle can in fact trap pokemon like Zygarde quite readily with charm, but despite the rank that's generally far less relevant a set for good reason, and goth as a broken pokemon is so irrespective of that capability. While it is true that Goth's winning matchups are not particularly amazing in number, unlike every other pokemon on the VR, when it comes in one something it beats there's no response. While terrakion and gothitelle both check blissey, the Blissey player can just switch in their Arceus-Fairy or Giratina against Terrakion. Versus goth, however, they just lost one of their most important pokemon and are now mostly defenseless against Tapu Koko or Yveltal. Gothitelle can also actually often trap several offensive threats even with its standard set even if it cannot hard siwtch in, such as Keldeo and terrakion (Swtch in on CC or Diancite).

On stall, Goth doesn't trap the entire team, but it doesn't need to even come close to that; in most matches against defensive teams, it doesnt need to predict either. The archetypal example is primal groudon - either the foe brings in their check (and unless their check is giratina, which works but isnt super reliable against +2 blades), they either sack something or bring in their (trappable) answer. once they do the latter, they can either recover and be trapped or swicth out and both risk pdon staying in and be much less able to answer pdon again. Even if they do have giratina and can soft check pdon enouugh elsewhere to let it do its job, however, you can do the same with one of the other 5 offensive pokemon you have, such as Zygarde or Lunala or Tapu Koko. There are a surprising number of (most, actually) viable anti offense pokemon that are also only viably checked by trappable pokemon on stall, which means that stall must either run niche picks and just plain miss many threats regardless of gothitelle by running bad pokemon to fulfil roles, or lose to gothitelle.

From there, you can freely run 5 other exceleltn anti offense pokemon (my team is an example of this, but there are tons of others like scarfxern, Sub SD Terrakion, and Zygarde, which means that you can take on most teams on even+ footing while just removing stall and many balances. I'd highly reccomend trying it out for yourself.
I would suggest suspecting Shadow Tag and not Gothitelle, as Shadow Tag Mega Gengar is as uncompetitive as Gothitelle because it can trap and remove defensive mons as well. It not only traps, it lures in Blissey pre-mega, because Gengar is a great user of other stones as well, like Pidgeotite - which is best walled by Blissey which is immune to Hypnosis thanks to Magic Bounce.
I would't be entirely opposed to this, but I do want to make clear that even with perish song, Gengar is significantly less threatening of a trapper in terms of targets and splashability than Gothitelle.
What you've failed to understand here is the severity of just how badly it performs against this playstyle. It's not a case of 'None of the other suspected Pokemon can beat every style therefore Gothitelle being poor against Hyper Offense is irrelevant' but rather, 'Gothitelle is AWFUL against more offensive styles.' So ya, just wanted to correct you there.
While gothitelle is far less effective against hyper offense, it's not useless even there. It badly hurts webs hyper offense, as it removes shuckle (while preventign the webs with taubnt) and even if shuckle isn't sent out it still leaves the team without the sticky webs they need to get on the feild. It also helps choice scarfers, as Xerneas can be answered (and trapped) with any move bar Moonblast or Lunala with any move not named moongheist, and even in the event of none of that being relevant supports an extremely effective anti-offense build and can further support that as a death fodder. It's not going to do much to win you the matchup, but it's not like gothitelle teams do particularly poorly against hyper offense.
 
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thesecondbest

Just Kidding I'm First
Gothitelle can in fact trap pokemon like Zygarde quite readily with charm, but despite the rank that's generally far less relevant a set for good reason, and goth as a broken pokemon is so irrespective of that capability. While it is true that Goth's winning matchups are not particularly amazing in number, unlike every other pokemon on the VR, when it comes in one something it beats there's no response. While terrakion and gothitelle both check blissey, the Blissey player can just switch in their Arceus-Fairy or Giratina against Terrakion. Versus goth, however, they just lost one of their most important pokemon and are now mostly defenseless against Tapu Koko or Yveltal. Gothitelle can also actually often trap several offensive threats even with its standard set even if it cannot hard siwtch in, such as Keldeo and terrakion (Swtch in on CC or Diancite).

On stall, Goth doesn't trap the entire team, but it doesn't need to even come close to that; in most matches against defensive teams, it doesnt need to predict either. The archetypal example is primal groudon - either the foe brings in their check (and unless their check is giratina, which works but isnt super reliable against +2 blades), they either sack something or bring in their (trappable) answer. once they do the latter, they can either recover and be trapped or swicth out and both risk pdon staying in and be much less able to answer pdon again. Even if they do have giratina and can soft check pdon enouugh elsewhere to let it do its job, however, you can do the same with one of the other 5 offensive pokemon you have, such as Zygarde or Lunala or Tapu Koko. There are a surprising number of (most, actually) viable anti offense pokemon that are also only viably checked by trappable pokemon on stall, which means that stall must either run niche picks and just plain miss many threats regardless of gothitelle by running bad pokemon to fulfil roles, or lose to gothitelle.

From there, you can freely run 5 other exceleltn anti offense pokemon (my team is an example of this, but there are tons of others like scarfxern, Sub SD Terrakion, and Zygarde, which means that you can take on most teams on even+ footing while just removing stall and many balances. I'd highly reccomend trying it out for yourself.

I would't be entirely opposed to this, but I do want to make clear that even with perish song, Gengar is significantly less threatening of a trapper in terms of targets and splashability than Gothitelle.

While gothitelle is far less effective against hyper offense, it's not useless even there. It badly hurts webs hyper offense, as it removes shuckle (while preventign the webs with taubnt) and even if shuckle isn't sent out it still leaves the team without the sticky webs they need to get on the feild. It also severely limits choice scarfers, as Xerneas can be trapped with any move bar Moonblast or Lunala with any move not named moongheist, and even in the event of none of that being relevant supports an extremely effective anti-offense build and can further support that as a death fodder. It's not going to do much to win you the matchup, but it's not like gothitelle teams do particularly poorly against hyper offense.
lunala is a ghost it can't be trapped lol
scarf xern rarely clicks anything besides moonblast, as in like never
will respond to rest later i have to go to class
Ok responding to rest
I agree there is a difference between a Pokemon like terrak and goth when checking blissey. But I don't understand how a team can have 5 excellent anti offense Pokemon that apparently also only have trappable answers on stall. It seems that whatever these are, such as primal Groudon, if they are excellent vs offense and apparently also have only one check on stall builds which is trappable, maybe they are the issue. And Gengar is used as a trapper vs basically blissey, things weak to it's stabs, but also anything slower on offense. They function very differently. Also how is sub ss terrak good vs offense? It dies to any priority. And finally, yes you trap shuckle but if you face a banettite set, it gets them both up. Smeargle with priority spore also does the job and deo-s spikes on you. And I'm sorry, saying the words "support as death fodder" is not an argument. Literally anything can be a death fodder.
 
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lunala is a ghost it can't be trapped lol
scarf xern rarely clicks anything besides moonblast, as in like never
will respond to rest later i have to go to class
Yes, that's my bad; I meant answer for lunala, as goth just generally wants to do something vs offense, and didnt do my due diligence in proofreading. Thanks for the catch, I've edited it now.
 
Altarianite Azelf and Pincerite Landorus are really fun to use! Why you ask? They both have 125 base attack, high speed and EXPLOSION!

Also try taking Scizorite Genesect for a spin. Download +atk into technician fell stinger is nothing to sneeze at. Also knows flame charge.
 
Two weeks. Two weeks until the release of US/UM, showing the closure of the SM meta. Whilst it may be too early to tell what US/UM might give us, I have decided to post a few cores that have done me very well in this metagame. I will be posting these cores randomly throughout the next two weeks, so keep an eye out!

Defensive Core: Sablenite Magearna + Venusaurite Hippowdon

Hippowdon @ Venusaurite
Ability: Sand Stream
EVs: 252 HP / 192 Def / 64 SpD
Impish Nature
- Earthquake
- Whirlwind
- Slack Off
- Toxic / Stealth Rock

Magearna @ Sablenite
Ability: Soul-Heart
EVs: 252 HP / 4 SpA / 252 SpD
Sassy Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 0 Spe
- Fleur Cannon
- Volt Switch
- Pain Split
- Heart Swap

Magearna @ Cameruptite
Ability: Soul-Heart
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpA
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Flash Cannon / Ice Beam
- Thunderbolt
- Calm Mind
- Pain Split


This is probably one of my all time favourite cores to use, and it’s partly due to how underrated Hippowdon is in the current metagame. Hippowdon, with a Venusaurite stone, can very happily take on Red Orb attackers such as Groudon-Primal and Raikou without a sweat due to:

a) An extremely high defense stat, combined with a usable Special Defense stat, allowing it to take Precipice Blades and other strong attacks, being one of the few Pokemon to take a V-create from Red Orb Victini (however, max SpA Modest Victini can break Hippowdon with Blue Flare)

b) The Venusaurite stone, which in my opinion, is the primary stone for Hippowdon to use. This gives Hippowdon great role compression versus Pokemon like Entei, and Toxic can wear down Pinsirite Entei and Ho-oh.

However – this core is not complete without what I find is the easiest Pokemon to splash on a team in Mix and Mega, and that Pokemon is Magearna. Whilst it is not extremely good, alike metagame titans such as Groudon-Primal and Zygarde, Sablenite variants of Magearna are extremely difficult for most special attackers to get past, such as Tapu Lele, Deoxys-Speed, Choice Specs Lunala… whilst the list is finite, it does include far more than you would think. Even Zygarde can have troubles getting past Magearna, whilst it can easily OHKO Altarianite variants with a Fleur Cannon.

(0 SpA Magearna Fleur Cannon vs. 192 HP / 0 SpD Pinsirite Zygarde: 354-416 (87.4 - 102.7%) -- 18.8% chance to OHKO)

However, this core is not without problems. Here is a list of what heavily threatens the core:

Blue Orb Attackers (Golisopod, Kyogre-Primal):

Due to this core being rather focussed on Red Orb attackers, Pokemon such as Golisopod and Kyogre-Primal can happily set up in front of both Pokemon and unleash their monstrously powerful rain boosted Water-STAB. Whilst not a Blue Orb user, Calm Mind Keldeo also heavily threatens the team as it can take a Fleur Cannon from Magearna and win in a switch-in situation.

Solutions to this problem:

Red Orb Pokemon such as Togekiss and Victini pair super well with this core, as they can happily switch into the water-type attackers that trouble this core.

Red Orb Togekiss:

Where as Hippowdon is expected to check most Red Orb attackers, Togekiss has access to Nasty Plot, meaning it can abuse Hippowdon’s mediocre Special Defense and take it out.

Solutions to this problem:

Due to Togekiss’ huge power, it is very difficult to find outright counters for its attacks. However, Ho-oh strikes as one of the better partners for the team, especially on the more offensive variant, as its extremely high SpDef and unique typing allow it to tank a hit and fire back a STAB Brave Bird, at worst 2HKOing Togekiss.

Kartana:

Whilst Kartana may be checked by Magearna if it hasn’t set up, it easily defeats Magearna on the switchin – doing the same to Hippowdon and using it as set-up bait.

Solutions to this problem:

Yet again, Red Orb attackers and Ho-oh pair well with this core. However, most of them are hit hard or outright KO’d by Return after a Swords Dance, making Kartana an extremely difficult Pokemon for this core to deal with. As a result, it is also advisable to use a high speed revenge killer such as Diancite Terrakion with this core.

Variants:

This core does have a variant, which replaces Magearna’s set, shown in the importable, which turns this core into a more balance based playstyle. However, not only does it make Magearna a lot more offensively threatening, it turns the core into what I think it one of the best stallbreaking cores out there. CM Split Cameruptite Magearna is incredibly difficult to take down for defensive teams, and it is also very difficult to stall out at the same time. As such, some teams depend on Shedinja to deal with it. Whilst this is usually good enough, Hippowdon completely invalidates any Shedinja which tries to stay in barring Safety Goggle variants, making it difficult to win versus Magearna without a dedicated answer – Red Orb users are great answers, and Groudon-Primal on semi-stall can be a massive problem for it.

There are also a few more threats for this core, such as…

Choice Specs/CM variants of Lunala:

Lunala becomes a massive threat to this team if you decide to forgo the more defensive Magearna spread, 2HKOing Magearna, the previous switchin. As such, it is advisable to search for defensive answers – Ho-oh is one of them, however, non-defensive variants are 2HKO’d by Psyshock, so watch out for that.

Geomancy Xerneas:

This is why this variant is somewhat distracting to people – whilst Zeomancy Xerneas isn’t too tough for Magearna to beat, Geomancy Variants (which hit their more inaccurate coverage moves) are able to 2HKO Magearna even after it Calm Minds up. Even then – all Xerneas needs is some damage on Magearna and it’s all over if you’re depending on it. Ho-oh, yet again, is another brilliant partner, alongside some bulkier Red Orb users able to resist Focus Blast.

Ahead of time, Core 2 is Groudon-Primal + Toxapex – expect to see a few PDon sets paired with this monster.
 

Chloe

;w;
is a Forum Moderator
Moderator
the link to Chazm's sample team is broken
These samples are like a year old and extremely outdated, we really need to fix that.

I'll be asking for sample team submissions shortly following the release of USUM, as there's no point updating now in case there is some major metagame change with the introduction of the new content. I don't expect any major changes but it doesn't hurt to wait two weeks just to be certain.
 
USUM SPOILERS
By holding Ultranecrozmium Z, Dawn Wings Necrozma or Dusk Mane Necrozma can transform into Ultra Necrozma. A button saying "Ultra Burst" will be in the same place as the Z move or mega evo button, and pressing it while selecting any move will turn Necrozma into ultra Necrozma, in a matter pretty much identical to mega evolution. On the following turn, you can choose wether to use a Z move or not. This mechanic obviously has the potential to be introduced in Mix and Mega, with the z crystal acting as the stone. Since primal reversion is a thing, there is precedent for adding mechanics that are similar but not identical to Mega Evolution.
However, one big problem is that Ultra Necrozma has TWO base forms with different stats, meaning there would be two different sets of stat changes for the Z crystal.
+10 Atk / -30 Def / +54 Spa / -12 Spd / +52 Spe for Dusk Mane
+54 Atk / -12 Def / +10 Spa / -30 Def / +52 Spe for Dawn Wings
However, a solution for this could be to have non shiny pokemon gain the DM stat boosts, while a shiny one would gain DW's ones. You could also just not implement it but considering that this is more similar to mega evo than primal reversion is, that seems like a shame.