M&M Mix and Mega

Lcass4919

The Xatu Warrior
Ash greninja, like all in battle form changes, will revert to the base form before megaing. This is to stay consistant with ingame behavior, as Mega-ing a mega pokemon (such as having an mmy with mmxite) will add the stats to the base form rather than allowing some double mega.
isn't that because mega evolution treats the mega evo's as their base form themselves? (example, soul dew on mega lati@s). that has nothing to do with mnm's mechanics. if anything, it proves the opposite. because this proves nothing more then that mega stones dont actually increase the mons bst when it mega evolves, but rather just turns the mon into a new mon which happens to have a 100 point stat increase. though this is a very obvious fact. and mnm is supposed to throw this logic out the window...so i don't see how this holds any grounds. the fact we have 100% evidence megas are considered base forms, and theres 0% evidence on this behavior, i don't think this is a mechanic that should stay.

if a coder can prove to me that mega evolving forms reverts them to base is true/provide evidence my facts are wrong, id appreciate it. sorry for making a big deal out of something moderately small, but i do enjoy my mechanics mumbo jumbo, and this is a significant aspect of the meta that should be corrected if evidence against the mechanic exists(at least until someone smarter and knows more about usum's coding comes and debunks my thoughts :P).
 
isn't that because mega evolution treats the mega evo's as their base form themselves? (example, soul dew on mega lati@s). that has nothing to do with mnm's mechanics. if anything, it proves the opposite. because this proves nothing more then that mega stones dont actually increase the mons bst when it mega evolves, but rather just turns the mon into a new mon which happens to have a 100 point stat increase. though this is a very obvious fact. and mnm is supposed to throw this logic out the window...so i don't see how this holds any grounds. the fact we have 100% evidence megas are considered base forms, and theres 0% evidence on this behavior, i don't think this is a mechanic that should stay.

if a coder can prove to me that mega evolving forms reverts them to base is true/provide evidence my facts are wrong, id appreciate it. sorry for making a big deal out of something moderately small, but i do enjoy my mechanics mumbo jumbo, and this is a significant aspect of the meta that should be corrected if evidence against the mechanic exists(at least until someone smarter and knows more about usum's coding comes and debunks my thoughts :P).
The code is unimportant here; within the game, its obviously the case that the mega stones trigger a form change rather than a stat buff, demonstrated by the fact that they can be hacked in themself with a consistant statline and that a nonmega mon with hacked stats can mega to a normal mega. However, in Mix and Mega the central conceit is that mega stones are an alreration to the baseline. As such, mix and mega assumes that all mega stone mechanics works under this principle, and attempts to look to see what additional rules are required to fir the mechanics we see ingame.
For this purpose, the base formes being treated as identical to altered formes and the formes reverting before mega will give the exact same affect; that the stats of the base form are used in the calculation of the mega form.
 

Lcass4919

The Xatu Warrior
The code is unimportant here; within the game, its obviously the case that the mega stones trigger a form change rather than a stat buff, demonstrated by the fact that they can be hacked in themself with a consistant statline and that a nonmega mon with hacked stats can mega to a normal mega. However, in Mix and Mega the central conceit is that mega stones are an alreration to the baseline. As such, mix and mega assumes that all mega stone mechanics works under this principle, and attempts to look to see what additional rules are required to fir the mechanics we see ingame.
For this purpose, the base formes being treated as identical to altered formes and the formes reverting before mega will give the exact same affect; that the stats of the base form are used in the calculation of the mega form.
eh. fair enough i guess. its so minor its probably not even worth debating about it. so ill drop that subject.
 
What do you think about Charizardite X Golisopod?
When I was building a TR team today, I thought about Golisopod, which got access to Drill Run in SUMU, and because its most likely moveset of STABs and Drill Run consists of only contact moves, I decided to try out a Tough Claws stone on it. As Charizardite X is the only such stone which does NOT boost speed, I tried it out and it worked surprisingly well. The disadvantage of Charizardite X is that it loses the water type and gains a Dragon type. Luckily it gets Dual Chop, which is a decent Dragon STAB, especially with Tough Claws. The coverage of Bug, Dragon and Ground is actually decent, especially when paired with a Volcanion or PDon which can freely switch into Skarmory or Celesteela, the only mons I can think of which can't be hit at least neutrally.
 
haven't seen much talk about necrozma's new tools thus far
along with photon geyser, tutors have given it an impressive special pool including earth power, heat wave, dragon pulse and hyper voice
it seems to have a lot of potential as a bulky attacker with stones like cameruptite, heracronite, or ampharosite, and could conceivably run loads of other options
 
What do you think about Charizardite X Golisopod?
When I was building a TR team today, I thought about Golisopod, which got access to Drill Run in SUMU, and because its most likely moveset of STABs and Drill Run consists of only contact moves, I decided to try out a Tough Claws stone on it. As Charizardite X is the only such stone which does NOT boost speed, I tried it out and it worked surprisingly well. The disadvantage of Charizardite X is that it loses the water type and gains a Dragon type. Luckily it gets Dual Chop, which is a decent Dragon STAB, especially with Tough Claws. The coverage of Bug, Dragon and Ground is actually decent, especially when paired with a Volcanion or PDon which can freely switch into Skarmory or Celesteela, the only mons I can think of which can't be hit at least neutrally.
There's also Shedinja, Togekiss and Ribombee ;)
Dragon type Goli seems fun and all for a meme team, but the thing is, Blue Orb is way too good on it and if you're not going to play Blue Orb Goli you'll be better not playing Goli at all.
 
Will Ribombee have any new niche in the tier as a fast webs setter? To retain its fairy typing, perhaps it could run Gardevoirite, to set up Sticky Web when there are no Magic Bounce Pokemon present on the field, and provide a better means of using Fairy type STAB moves in Hyper Voice and such. Haven't tried it out myself but definitely looks quite interesting.
 
Will Ribombee have any new niche in the tier as a fast webs setter? To retain its fairy typing, perhaps it could run Gardevoirite, to set up Sticky Web when there are no Magic Bounce Pokemon present on the field, and provide a better means of using Fairy type STAB moves in Hyper Voice and such. Haven't tried it out myself but definitely looks quite interesting.
Actually, Moonblast with the help of something like a Lucarionite hits harder than Gardevoirite Hyper Voice. (it won't hit through subs, but i wouldn't trade power for this)

That being said, Ribombee's damage output is just alright, the opponent probably won't have problem switching into stuff like Sablenite Blissey, that completely walls Ribombee and reflects Sticky Web... unless you go for Skill Swap. I mean, your coverage options are not great anyway, so why not? (i guess you'd trade Bug Buzz for this since U-Turn is a precious scout move)

Then there's Ampharosite and Gyaradosite, but i find that kind of counterproductive on Ribombee since you just want a fast Sticky Web setter with a decent damage output... and both removes Ribombee's Fairy Typing.
Gyaradosite Ribombee could switch on Psychic mons to hit them with Bug Buzz, but since Gyaradosite doesn't increase speed, it's damn slow for an offensive mon that can't wallbreak... unless Quiver Dance. Hey, that's something.
 
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Appearantly ubers is getting a complete overhaul. Knowing that, I wonder how much it will change mnm. Considering people are talking about releasing m.ray from A.G, or keeping m.ray A.G while putting pdon there too. Also banning other things like geo and other stuff that would become broken if pdon was gone.

Edit: species clause too soo... 6 Arecus team every where
 
Hi there
Been a big fan of MnM for quite a while now and one of my favourite mons to use is Metagrossite Mimikyu
And that is why I am here
On quite a few occasions despite after Mega Evolving Mimikyu has been outsped by things that shouldn't outspeed it, like regular Kartana or losing a priority battle against a Pinsirite Cobalion, i.e. what is supposed to be base 136 Speed losing to base 109 and (after ME) base 128
I was just wondering if this is known and being worked on and should I replace Mimikyu for the time being?
 
Hi there
Been a big fan of MnM for quite a while now and one of my favourite mons to use is Metagrossite Mimikyu
And that is why I am here
On quite a few occasions despite after Mega Evolving Mimikyu has been outsped by things that shouldn't outspeed it, like regular Kartana or losing a priority battle against a Pinsirite Cobalion, i.e. what is supposed to be base 136 Speed losing to base 109 and (after ME) base 128
I was just wondering if this is known and being worked on and should I replace Mimikyu for the time being?
Do you have replays or screenshots? Next time you get outsped, check the speed on your mimikyu with the tooltip. Also be on the lokout for paralysis, sticky webs, choice scarf users, and missclick; the game may say that you cancelled shadow claw for shadow sneak, but if you take too long to click the cancel button the turn will have already started. Also be sure that your mimikyu has EVs: if none of the above are issues, then it may well be that your evs have cancellled.
 
A recent update to PS has changed the way abilities are handled. Previously, only Multitype and Stance Change were protected from being overwritten, but that list now includes Battle Bond, Comatose, Disguise, Power Construct, RKS System, Schooling and Shields Down. This means that if you use Greninja-Ash, Komala, Mimikyu, Minior, Silvally or Wishiwashi then you will not gain the Mega ability any more.
 
So I did some testing with Mimikyu along with GL Volkner and found a couple things:

- You can still mega evolve it before Disguise gets busted and benefit from stat boosts, typing changes but not the ability.
- When Mimikyu's Disguise busts, it changes form and loses all stat boosts and typing changes.
- After Mimikyu's Disguise busts pre-evolution it will never benefit from Mega Evolving, reverting back to Original Mimikyu immediately.

urkerab is all of this intended and irreversible for at least MnM?

This pretty much means that Mimikyu is now unable to use a Mega Stone.
Sad to see it go...

Replays:
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7mixandmega-670188450
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7mixandmega-670191617

 
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A recent update to PS has changed the way abilities are handled. Previously, only Multitype and Stance Change were protected from being overwritten, but that list now includes Battle Bond, Comatose, Disguise, Power Construct, RKS System, Schooling and Shields Down. This means that if you use Greninja-Ash, Komala, Mimikyu, Minior, Silvally or Wishiwashi then you will not gain the Mega ability any more.
Apparently the effect of this change on Mix and Mega was unintentional, so it may yet get patched.
 
Meet Trolleon

Trolleon (Umbreon) (M) @ Sablenite
Ability: Inner Focus
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpD
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Foul Play
- Toxic
- Moonlight
- Protect



this is the most unexpected wall in the game, and can tank a lot of super effective hits, as long as they aren't from tapu lele


of course, Dusk Blade

Dusk Blade (Kartana) @ Diancite
Ability: Beast Boost
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Sacred Sword
- Leaf Blade
- Night Slash
- Smart Strike


Its like loppunite kartana, but faster. all u need to know
 
Meet Trolleon

Trolleon (Umbreon) (M) @ Sablenite
Ability: Inner Focus
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpD
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Foul Play
- Toxic
- Moonlight
- Protect



this is the most unexpected wall in the game, and can tank a lot of super effective hits, as long as they aren't from tapu lele
Tapu Lele can't even hit it with those Psychic moves cause Umbreon is part dark. Also don't use Umbreon. It's bad.
of course, Dusk Blade

Dusk Blade (Kartana) @ Diancite
Ability: Beast Boost
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Sacred Sword
- Leaf Blade
- Night Slash
- Smart Strike


Its like loppunite kartana, but faster. all u need to know
No it's not. Lopunnite Kartana gets Grass/Fighting as a type which is much better offensively than Grass/Steel.
 
Tapu Lele can't even hit it with those Psychic moves cause Umbreon is part dark. Also don't use Umbreon. It's bad.

No it's not. Lopunnite Kartana gets Grass/Fighting as a type which is much better offensively than Grass/Steel.
I agree that the sets werent the best, but somehow this post is worse. Tapu lele is part fairy type, and can easily KO umbron with super effective moonblasts. On kartana, meanwhile, the Grass / Fighting typeing is far inferiori as it can be readily revenge by -atespeed. Kartana runs lopunnite for a slightly better matchup against defensive teams with skarm / tina or, more commonly, because metagrossite is already in use elsewhere; it's solidly worse than the normal metagrossite Kartana set. Diancite is also at least as good as lopunnite, so recommending lopunnite over it is just really off considering their different roles.
 
about this goth issue. i dont feel like the meta has even preped for it due to goth being so uncommon. When qt first built his team, goth looked neat, but after people stopped trying it out, it just died out. The only thing i see from the replays is some teams that didnt prep for it at all. It looked similar to how goth preformed in AG before people took notice of it. After goth has become more common in ag, it was still fairly relevant, but not as OP as before.... MnM is still in just its first phase, thats, why goth might look broke to some(not to me tho). dont, wanna get too much into it, since alot of good players already mentioned its flaws in the main suspect thread...so yh
also before i post this. this is just MY OWN OPINION. i felt like i had to say it just in case
 
I agree that the sets werent the best, but somehow this post is worse. Tapu lele is part fairy type, and can easily KO umbron with super effective moonblasts.
I know that. It's not like i'm stupid. I was just telling him that Tapu Lele can't hit it with the Psychic moves which is what I assumed he meant.
On kartana, meanwhile, the Grass / Fighting typeing is far inferiori as it can be readily revenge by -atespeed. Kartana runs lopunnite for a slightly better matchup against defensive teams with skarm / tina or, more commonly, because metagrossite is already in use elsewhere; it's solidly worse than the normal metagrossite Kartana set. Diancite is also at least as good as lopunnite, so recommending lopunnite over it is just really off considering their different roles.
I was also commenting there. All I was saying is that it's not the same thing. I wasn't even recommending it.