M&M Mix and Mega

Chloe

;w;
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Ultra Burst does not "barely resemble" mega evolution, it is identical in almost every way. The difference is that you use a Z crystal instead of a stone (which doesn't matter since the things that can use the corresponding Z move will likely be banned from holding stones), and that the stat boost is not 100 (just like gen 6 mega Alakazam). It is more similar to Mega Evolution than Primal Reversion is.
You're missing the point of what I was saying, I should have clarified better sorry.

I'm not adding a new mechanic for one forme change method/one Pokémon. This metagame is already complex enough for new players, it already has the most mechanics of any OM, it's already the most complex permanent ladder format by far. By adding this shininess concept you have suggested, not only does it not abide by the standards in which we hold metagames, since this is a very specific rule but it also doesn't make any sense whatsoever. It would make more sense to include Griseous Orb than Ultranecrozium Z.

Anyway this stops here. We've had enough back and forth discussion on this issue. If you still believe that it should be implemented and Mix and Mega should become a pet mod, then by all means contact me on PS or Discord and we can discuss it there.
 
A new set I've seen a bit now is Pidgeotite Genesect. Maybe it's an old set and I haven't encountered it, but I've been playing for all of gen 7 now and that's unlikely. I didn't give it a lot of attention until recently when the guy who was using it came out of nowhere and is now #1. With Zap Cannon and Blizzard it doesn't have a lot of answers, as it's basically the ultimate Bolt Beamer.
 
Are we still allowed to use Ultranecroznium Z on Necrozma formes? Because we are still allowed to use Beedrillite, Mawilinite, etc. on their native holders.
Or will Ultranecroznium Z be banned altogether.
 
While I don't use Smogon as a forum often, I've been happily playing Mix and Mega ever since Gen 6, and seeing its permanent spot in Gen 7 has led to a lot of fun.
Since USUM are coming out soon, and may or may not shake the meta in some way, I'd just like to show my respect for this meta's community while I'm still actively playing.
Some of the most fun I've had with playing MnM has been using unconventional checks to the strongest Pokemon. It's not always viable, but the ability to be so creative with strategies has led to easily the most fun in Gen 7 I've had compared to how stale Gen 7 OU and VGC '17 became to me.

Easily one of the most consistent Pokemon I've seen while playing (that wasn't banned later) is Kartana. Kartana's frailty causes it to not become too powerful, but at the same time, it with Metagrossite and Diancite have led to overwhelming power and speed. It's probably not the best set (heck, I've been on and off playing Pokemon in the past couple months so what I'm saying could be outdated at this point), but it's a fun Pokemon to just take for a spin. 169 base Speed with Diancite is quite insane, although Deoxys-Speed laughs in the face of that.

Thanks to all the meta leaders, and I hope Mix and Mega continues to be as strong as it is.
 
if it's banned to ag, it will be banned altogether from here, as it is for ray mega evolving with dragon ascent
MnM's banlist is not connected to the main tiers as there are alots of allowed Ubers, some banned OU mons and Mega-Ray has been suspected into the meta more than once (not officially though, IT told me this a while back). So it will be the council's call in the end
 

Kris

not mine problem
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MnM's banlist is not connected to the main tiers as there are alots of allowed Ubers, some banned OU mons and Mega-Ray has been suspected into the meta more than once (not officially though, IT told me this a while back). So it will be the council's call in the end
The first post of this thread said:
Mix and Mega is an Ubers-based metagame
yeah ok
 
It gets Drill Run? Heck, PDon, Steel types (aka Magearna), Koko, Raikou... There's a lot of things that can't just freely switch in anymore.
At least it's kind of a 4th moveslot syndrome.
 
Does anyone think it that Ultra-Necrozma could be the ultimate counter to Pdon?

Its ability alone combined with its movepool scare me
Not only does this have Earth power in its arsenal, but it also has the ability to hit both defenses with Photon Geyser and Psyshock (although that is by no means the best set to run if you wanna hit things other than Pdon)

Also did it already get quickbanned because it isn't allowing me to use its z crystal on either forms
 
Also did it already get quickbanned because it isn't allowing me to use its z crystal on either forms
Ultra Boost was implemented in normal play as a form of Mega Evolution. This confused the Mix and Mega code so as an interim measure Zarel simply quickbanned the stone. Later TI limited the ban to Necrozma-Dawn-Wings and Necrozma-Dusk-Mane, but Zarel had to revert that change because it was still crashing.
 
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Since Ultra Burst is a mid-battle Forme change, could other Pokemon hold Ultranecrozium Z and Ultra Burst too? It didn't work for Ash-Greninja as it was an ability, but you only need to hold Ultranecrozium Z to Ultra Burst. I wonder about how they'd implement the stat boosts though, seeing as both Necrozma formes have their more proficient stat increased less and their less proficient stat increased more.

EDIT: I just saw the previous page, sorry for bringing it up and you can now ignore this post.
 

Offense
Click on the sprites for import

i wanted an ho team around pidgeotite gene which is underrated. deos standard ho lead and magiccoat for webs / taunt users. zygarde cus its good and gives priority. evs are so sub wont break after bliss seismic toss. manaphy and bisharp seemed cool, both 1v1ing bliss and bdoing well vs golis/mag/zap/bliss teams. added pdon cus its good.

 

Offense
Click on the sprites for import

i wanted an ho team around pidgeotite gene which is underrated. deos standard ho lead and magiccoat for webs / taunt users. zygarde cus its good and gives priority. evs are so sub wont break after bliss seismic toss. manaphy and bisharp seemed cool, both 1v1ing bliss and bdoing well vs golis/mag/zap/bliss teams. added pdon cus its good.

This seems like a pretty decent team, but there are a few things I would like to highlight as potential changes to your team:
Groudon-Primal: Stone Edge > Fire Punch, 168 HP/236 Atk/36 SpD/68 Spe > 252 Atk/4 SpD/252 Spe, Adamant Nature
Your current Groudon-Primal spread shows exploitable weaknesses versus Xerneas and Kyogre-Primal (not to mention Golisopod and Naganadel in US/UM) due to its much lower defenses. Both of these Pokemon are able to clean your team, more specifically, Kyogre-Primal can net a 2HKO on every Pokemon and potentially proceed to win with a Substitute up, allowing it to entirely bypass Genesect as a check and fire back an incredibly powerful Origin Pulse, which will happily KO the rest of your team the moment Ice Beam gets through Groudon-Primal. Xerneas can also win if it manages to get a Geomancy up on Manaphy - whilst Zygarde may do considerable damage, it may not be enough to kill (252+ Atk Pixilate Zygarde Extreme Speed vs. 72 HP / 0 Def Fairy Aura Xerneas: 253-298 (61.5 - 72.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO, 252 SpA Manaphy Surf vs. 72 HP / 100 SpD Xerneas: 144-169 (35 - 41.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO), allowing Xerneas to cleansweep the entire team. Not to mention that Z-Geomancy can also clean, however it can have problems with Genesect, hence making this change will help do better against those two threats. Stone Edge is useful for Zygarde and Ho-oh - Ho-oh in particular being able to deal with the team very well, if a supporting member such as Arceus-Ground defogs hazards. It also helps it take on Tapu Koko, which can 2HKO it with Grass Knot. (252 SpA Tapu Koko Grass Knot (120 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Groudon-Primal: 167-197 (48.9 - 57.7%) -- 96.1% chance to 2HKO)

Manaphy: Psychic > HP Ground
Hidden Power Ground on Manaphy, whilst it might successfully lure in Red Orb users and potentially take them out, it does not benefit Manaphy in any other way as Pokemon such as Toxapex will wall it to oblivion. Whilst it might seem a bit specific, running Psychic for it may help to alleviate Toxapex from becoming a complete wincon - especially after Genesect has been removed.

Zygarde: 192 HP/252 Atk/64 Spe > 188 HP/252 Atk/68 Spe
A small nitpick that allows you to set up four Substitutes instead of three if at full health. c;

Notable problems:
Deoxys-Speed (Pidgeotite): Whilst Bisharp may be able to allieviate this problem, it is no surprise that Deoxys-Speed is a massive problem for this team. Bisharp is risky to switchin due to Focus Blast, and Zygarde, whilst it can 1v1, cannot OHKO Deoxys-Speed with Extreme Speed. (252+ Atk Pixilate Zygarde Extreme Speed vs. 160 HP / 0 Def Deoxys-Speed: 190-225 (67.6 - 80%) -- guaranteed 2HKO, 252 SpA Deoxys-Speed Psycho Boost vs. 192 HP / 0 SpD Zygarde: 280-330 (69.1 - 81.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO)

CM/HP Fire Tapu Lele (Diancite): Diancite Tapu Lele also deals with this team quite well, as CM variants can break through Groudon-Primal and potentially KO Genesect with Focus Blast (+1 252 SpA Tapu Lele Focus Blast vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Genesect: 251-296 (88.6 - 104.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock - if the opponent can get hazards up, you're done). Lucarionite also beats this team if you are running Modest Genesect (in this case, you are).

Overall, the usage of Bisharp helps this team quite considerably as it can deal with other underused threats such as Specs Lunala, however, pressuring Arceus-Ground could be an improvement to work on, as it can defog your hazards away quite happily when the team needs to deal with something like the threats mentioned.

I'll have my thoughts up on the new US/UM changes in a week or so.
 
With Pokebank updated, MnM will receive slight changes that may affect the metagame.
Actually, i can only think of 3 of them so far, so maybe there's something else.

Gengar + Zap Cannon
A new toy for Pidgeotite Gengar.
There's already a sleeping mon but you want to slow down the mon the opponent will switch to? Zap Cannon is there for you.

Ho-Oh + Curse
So Ho-Oh finally gets a setup move, and for both attack and defense.
Also transfered mons come with their hidden ability, so Ho-Oh keeps Regenerator here.


Starmie + Zap Cannon
Starmie never really shined. It already gets Thunder, but Zap Cannon's side effect is the cherry on the cupcake.
With perfectly accurate coverage thanks to Pidgeotite and the help of a STAB Psyshock, Starmie may or may not find a little niche in some teams.

That's all i can think of.
Mons such as Arcanine and Entei also gets Curse, but Entei can't have have it with Espeed, and Arcanine can't have it with Close Combat and Intimidate, so that's not a helpful gain.
A lot of mons also get Zap Cannon, but the only not-mentionned one that looks viable to me is Alakazam, and it has flaws to say the least.
 
There’s something I’ve been wanting to talk about. While this Pokémon is not yet released, we know everything about it: Zeraora.



Zeraora, on paper, seems like a very dangerous Pokemon. It’s already looking like THE best user of Lopunnite, reaching a massive 172 Attack and an even more amazing 173 Speed (placing it at 489). Not only this, but Lopunnite gives Zeraora the Fighting/Electric typing it really wants, and Scrappy makes Close Combat an incredibly spammable STAB move. It also gets Plasma Fists, which blesses Zeraora with a 100 BP Electric STAB move with no drawbacks. While it’s coverage isn’t all that great, it’s STABs alone already hit much of the tier for neutral damage, and Zeraora has many interesting options including Bulk Up, Taunt, and Thunder Wave.

It’s hard to say just how big of an impact this will have once released, but as I said, we already know all of the tools this Pokemon gets. What do you guys think?
 
Well upon editing a pikachu in mnm calc. To fit same stats as lopunnite zeraora , it seems to do some decent things but it is still a degree underwhelming. Hone claws may be a better option if you wanted to abuse iron tail (which it gets) to deal with fairyies in the meta such as fairyceus. It does do a decent amount of a max 46% on a roll to pdon with close combat , (this is max hp pdon , so pdon that isnt running a large amount in hp will probably be 2hkoed). It gets low kick that can be used instead of cc and it has been seen to due the same amount as cc to pdon thought it may not be the best idea overall as though mnm is filled with ubers, it also contains alot of megas , some of the ones weak to fighting not being as heavy. It was also seen through calcs that cc from it pretty much decimates blissey , but it is still on a max roll short of 15% of dmg for a one shot it , it may go down with some prior dmg though , it would have to be brought into a reasonable kill ranger of below 78 as lowest roll was 76.5%. Hone claws or bulk up should turn this roll into an ohko. Sablenite zapdos seems to deal with this mon the best in terms of tanking however , zapdos can do very little back save for toxicing it , as it resists one of zaps stabs and its immune to para so you cant fish for discharge para, it also isn’t particularly frail so it cant take the neutral hits from heat wave (though lucky heat wave burns may catch it)or hp ice that are commonly run on zap and then setup on it or even sub up so even toxicing it will become futile. Of all ates its only weak to pixi , though it is still hit neutrally by the other two and most of the common ate users are still be able to land a decent 2hko on it as checked with zygarde , one of the weaker ones in immediate dmg output does 72% to it on max roll to it with espeed off of pinsirite and in retaliation even without any hp or defense investment plasma fists only does 49.8% on max roll with no boosts. It can attempt to boost on the switch or etc, however zyg can still tank a solid one and go for the 2hko with espeed (tarrows doesnt ohko , however it is a very close 2hko. Honestly there is some things that this mon could use (like ice or fairy coverage), however i do see it at least becoming usable in the meta , though i dont expect it to become a major threat but who knows maybe some other stone on it might prove me wrong like altarianit e, pinsirite or mewtonite x. Or maybe loppunnite may be better on it than i had thought. I would like some more opinions from everyone else on this mons potential in mnm.

Edit: also WOW this is my longest forum post right here lol
 
252 Atk Zeraora Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Blissey: 476-564 (66.6 - 78.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO(Sablenite)
252 Atk Zeraora Plasma Fists vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Mandibuzz: 212-252 (50 - 59.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO (Sablenite)
252 Atk Zeraora Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Mandibuzz: 127-151 (29.9 - 35.6%) -- 27.1% chance to 3HKO(Sablenite)
0 Atk Mandibuzz Foul Play vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Zeraora: 122-144 (38.4 - 45.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO(Lopunnite)
252 Atk Zeraora Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Hippowdon: 109-130 (25.9 - 30.9%) -- guaranteed 4HKO(Slowbronite)
252 Atk Zeraora Plasma Fists vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Skarmory: 182-216 (54.4 - 64.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO(Sablenite)
252 Atk Zeraora Plasma Fists vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Zapdos: 118-139 (30.7 - 36.1%) -- 51.5% chance to 3HKO(Sablenite)
252 Atk Zeraora Plasma Fists vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Zapdos: 126-148 (32.8 - 38.5%) -- 99.3% chance to 3HKO(Venusaurite)

are any of these calcs helpful?