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All Gens Most significant moves introduced each gen

Discussion in 'Ruins of Alph' started by Awoken, Feb 19, 2013.

  1. Awoken

    Awoken

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    Not quite sure whether I'm allowed to post this, but I'm interested in the discussion, so here goes!

    Which moves do you think are the most significant moves introduced each generation in the generation they were introduced? Basically, which Gen 1 moves are most influential in RBY, which new Gen 2 moves are most influential in GSC, etc. Having never played RBY, here are my ideas for the other three gens.

    GSC
    5. Pursuit: Not even switching is safe...
    4. Baton Pass: The birth of the most hated team archetype.
    3. Sleep Talk: It's easier to fall asleep
    2. Spikes/Rapid Spin: The heart of competitive Pokemon is switching. Guess what this punishes?
    1. Hidden Power: One 70 BP move of any type at all.

    ADV
    5. Will-O-Wisp: Burn is a viable status now.
    4. Focus Punch: A nice 150 BP reward for good prediction, and a way to beat Blissey/Snorlax/Regice.
    3. Wish: Suddenly, the whole team gets recovery.
    2. Calm Mind: No weak.
    1. Dragon Dance: When dinosaurs ruled advance.

    DPP
    5. Roost: 50% recovery is nothing special anymore.
    4. Focus Blast: There is no alternative.
    3. Close Combat: 120 BP, 100 Accuracy. The power is creeping.
    2. U-turn: Free momentum.
    1. Stealth Rock: Did anyone not see this coming?

    Thoughts?
  2. Dre89

    Dre89

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    RBY would have-

    Body slam
    Hyper beam
    Psychic
    Thunder Wave
    Thunderbolt
    Ice beam
    Blizzard
    Amnesia
    Earthquake
    Sleep Powder
    Hypnosis
    Explosion
    Recover
    Softboiled.
    Wrap

    That's quite a lot, and that's being quite strict. That's leaving out moves like counter, rest, reflect, seismic toss and alternate status moves such as lovely kiss and stun spore, which you don't see as often. All of those moves could be included depending on how strict you want to be.
  3. Awoken

    Awoken

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    I was thinking more along the lines of which move, if it never existed, would have resulted in the most different RBY than we have today (i.e. if there was no Explosion, how would RBY have turned out). Granted, this would be highly difficult to theorymon, as many of the most gamebreaking moves like the aforementioned explosion were introduced in Gen 1.
  4. Dre89

    Dre89

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    Honestly it's more mechanic changes that would make a big difference. The special split, the mechanics of crits, hyper-beam and substitue are what make RBY what it is. Change them to their GSC mechanics and you have a very different metagame.

    If I had to pick a move, I'd say amnesia for Ubers and for OU I'd say recover/softboiled. Removing those would drastically change how specials played. You would have less stall wars. Reflect would be on a lot of specials, and starmie and other waters and ices like lapras and articuno would be more popular.
  5. Borat

    Borat

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    I'd put Rest down for GSC. Just saying.
  6. Magcargo

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    Wouldn't outrage be a significant move in gsc because it gave dragonite a powerful stab and is so widespread today?
  7. Jellicent

    Jellicent ~the spirit who loves spirits~
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    For DPP, I think I'd actually have to say:

    1) Stealth Rock - Obviously the face of the generation
    2) U-turn - The ability to scout, switch, and hurt the opponent is huge, and it really increased the speed of the game.
    3) Draco Meteor - 140 BP Dragon-type attack? This is a huge part of what sent Latias and Salamence over the edge to Ubers, and the metagame would be very different without it.
    4) Roost - A crucial move that allowed Flying-types to tie with Waters for second most dominant type, despite the addition of Stealth Rock
    5) Bullet Punch - The move that sent Scizor to the top of the usage stats for most of the Platinum era, as well as greatly affecting the lead metagame with Machamp and Metagross

    The lists are a bit subjective, though...
  8. Awoken

    Awoken

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    I'm pretty sure the move Rest was introduced in Gen 1.

    And Outrage was in Gen 2, although no one used it. On second thought, this is really an convoluted way to go about this. Maybe change this to most significant moves introduced in each Generation to any metagame?
  9. Nova

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    Some moves I would consider adding

    RBY
    Earthquake - one of the most used attacks in general
    Explosion - one of the most powerful attacks that was common up until BW
    Recover - healing back 50% of HP, seen on most defensive Pokemon in a similar form (Roost, Slack Off, Softboiled)
    Substitute - creates a 25% that blocks status, still widely used

    GSC
    Protect - provides a free turn

    ADV
    Spore - 100% accurate Sleep move

    DPPT
    Stone Edge - replaced Rock Slide as the primary Rock-type attack

    BW
    Scald - one of the most influential moves this generation, greatly benefited bulky Water types and has shifted defensive Pokemon to using this over Surf and offensive Pokemon to using Hydro Pump
    Volt Switch - momentum move
  10. TheFourthChaser

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  11. SlimMan

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    Gen II had the best influx of moves. Spikes, Sleep Talk, Rapid Spin... Heck, I think Toxic was invented in Gen II

  12. Yilx

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    Stealth Rocks off the top of my head in Gen4. Double boosting moves like Dragon Dance, etc. from Gen3 and Spikes/Spin/Sleep Talk in Gen2.

    FUK SCALD
  13. Nyara

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    Bolded the most important ones. Attacks just ordered by BP, and supports by name. I'm not really covering the important stuff of DPPt or BW because the list could be excesive huge (too much Power Creep), but I'll maybe gonna do that other day. Most of the stuff is mostly filling (as we're just talking about the moves, and not exactly of those users), so, if that's a problem, just focus on the bolded ones.

    Also, just covering the moves that were good and created on that generation, usually, the good moves of a generation were also good later (but some were outclassed, like Cross Chop), and some moves not-so-good on a generation could have been good later, like Substitute, but I'm not covering that (like Protect, it wasn't good for nothing at all on GSC).

    * = A minor glitch/old mech helped.
    ** = A minor/mild glitch and/or old mech made it important
    *** = An important glitch made it important

    RBY
    (Attacks)
    - Explosion* = Free KO when you're almost over? Nice. Breaking Substitute for free? Better.
    - Hyper Beam** = 150 BP and no need to recharge when you land a KO or did broke a Substiute? OP.
    - Slash** = 99,6% of Critical Hit made it an almost flawless 140BP attack, fantastic.
    - Blizzard** = 90 of Accuracy with a great offensive type and power, incredible.
    - Hydro Pump = Water were always an important type, and this is one of their important moves.
    - Earthquake = Great power, almost flawless accuracy, great offensive type, incredible.
    - Ice Beam = Mostly used to "aim for the frezee", and freeze was flawless on RBY.
    - Thunderbolt = Nice power, almost flawless accuracy, great offensive type, 10% paralyze, nice.
    - Surf = Water were always an important type, and its their best offensive move.
    - Psychic = Psychics were powerful on RBY, and its their best offensive move.
    - Crabhammer** = Maybe the best offensive move ever created, making something like Kingler usable.
    - Body Slam = 30% Paralyze were always great, and 85BP is good enough.
    - Drill Peck = Flying were always a good offensive type, and it's a decent move for them.
    - Rock Slide = Rock is a fantastic offensive type, and its their best move.
    - Swift = On the past, Evasion Clause din't existed, and this was a significant counter.
    - Razor Leaf = 99,6% of Critical Hit made it an almost flawless 110BP attack, good.
    - Mega Drain = The second best STAB of Exeggutor, decent enough, anyway.
    - Clamp*** = Wrap-mechs were too bugged that this was a good move for Closyter.
    - Fire Spin*** = Wrap-mechs were too bugged that this was a good move for Fire-types.
    - Wrap*** = Wrap-mechs were too bugged that this was an almost flawless 415BP+ attack.
    - Super Fang = This move is awesome, too bad Raticate is not that good, but still, nice.
    - Seismic Toss = Flawless 100 damage, good for defensive things.

    Just ordered by BP. The most significant of them as the move alone? Crabhammer, a highly accurate non-recharging move with 180BP most of the time with a nice offensive type, that's the best offensive move ever created, the problem? Just available to Kingler, who is decent, but its special attack is awful. And most significant by context and general impact? Body Slam, Hyper Beam, Blizzard, Earthquake, Surf, and Psychic, on non-particular order, maybe Psychic if I have to say one.

    RBY (Status)
    - Acid Armor = 2+ Defense was good, and this was used on old times a lot.
    - Agility* = 2+ Speed were always good, but bypassing the speed drop of Paralyze is awesome.
    - Amnesia** = 2+ of BOTH Specials is OP, maybe the strongest move ever made.
    - Barrier = 2+ Defense is nice, and some important Pokémon are stiil using this.
    - Confuse Ray = Confusion was a good status, generally, an important move to annoyers.
    - Counter = More used on those times, but, still, an important gamebreaking move.
    - Double Team = When Evasion Clause din't existed, this was used a lot with good results.
    - Focus Energy** = On Stadium this was great, making you a machine of Criticals.
    - Hypnosis = Sleep were always a powerful status, but, here, is OP, and 60% is not that bad.
    - Light Screen = Not that good as after, but still a good move and important.
    - Lovely Kiss = Better than Hypnosis, 75% is actually good.
    - Mimic* = Some Pokémon din't had too much options... and this could be gamebreaking.
    - Minimize = When Evasion Clause din't existed, this was used a lot with broken results.
    - Recover = One of best non-attacking moves of the game, recovering the 1/2 of your HP? Awesome.
    - Reflect = Not that good as after, but still a good move and important.
    - Rest = More important on the past along with Evasion, but still an important move today.
    - Sleep Powder= Better than Hypnosis, 75% is actually good.
    - Softboiled = Chansey is OP just because this, seriously.
    - Spore = Maybe the best non-attacking move of the game, but, just Parasect had it...
    - Substitute** = More important on Stadium were it actually works better.
    - Sword Dance = 2+ Attack were always great, and this generation is not exception.
    - Thunder Wave = Paralyze were always a great status, and it's the best inducer.

    Just ordered by name. I think the most important move was Amnesia, just nothing reach to the power that Amnesia had, followed by Softboiled and Recover, making those users a lot more important of that they could be without those moves.

    GSC (Attacks)
    - Megahorn = Heracross was good because this.
    - Aeroblast = Lugia was even more uber thanks to this.
    - Cross Chop = Figthers like Machamp were viable thanks to this.
    - DynamicPunch = Desesperate effort/coverage of some that were always used a lot.
    - Sacred Fire = Ho-oh is uber mostly thanks to this.
    - Sludge Bomb = Poison-types are a bit more viable thanks to this.
    - Crunch = Good move for the good Dark-types, but 80BP is just not enough for them.
    - AncientPower = An alternative to the common Rock Slide or Hidden Power Rock, good.
    - Giga Drain = A good move, 60BP is usable, and recovering your damage is great.
    - Bonemerang = A Earthquake clone that break substitutes, good for Marowak.
    - Pursuit = Pseudo-trapping was created with this, and was an useful move.
    - Thief = Leafovers was on everything, and this can truly change the course of the battle there.
    - Rapid Spin = Spikes was created and used a lot, so, a counter was needed.
    - Hidden Power = 70BP of any type, an awesome unlimited coverage move.
    - Return = 102BP to Normal-types, nice.
    - Frustration = Same as adove.

    Let's see, Heracross' Megahorn was incredible, but Heracross weren't never the best Pokémon of the game. Cross Chop was made Figther finally viable, and that is great, as they are important now, specially Machamp, but even then, they still fail at being the best. Marowak was a huge threat, but Earthquake is still usually better than Bonemerang. Pursuit was new, and good, nobody did too much damage with it, making it sometimes hard to use to the success. Rapid Spin can help you with Spikes, that will also help you to futher stalling, but this doesn't work on offensive teams too well. Return/Frustatin are great, but Body Slam tends to be more useful.

    So, Hidden Power is maybe the most important offensive move for GSC and created on GSC, almost the 20-30% of the Pokémon use it to improve their coverage, so, yeah, that's really important, specially on some legendaries. And some even use it to get a STAB, too...

    GSC (Support)

    - Attract = One of most used moves by annoyers, specially without Evasion Clause.
    - Baton Pass = This move created one of most powerful archtypes, and is useful as alone, too.
    - Belly Drum = Wow, this thing really shaped GSC a lot.
    - Charm = A great move for those passive Pokémon like Umbreon.
    - Curse = Wow, this thing also shaped GSC a lot.
    - Encore = Used a lot by annoyers, and it works really well.
    - Heal Bell = Wow, this thing shaped a lot GSC, too, healing the status of the time? I'm in.
    - Mean Look = Trapping was good by those times, specially with Perish Song.
    - Milk Drink = Milktank was good thanks to this (in part).
    - Moonlight = An useful move, but more used on lower tiers, still great.
    - Morning Sun = Same as adove.
    - Perish Song = PerishTrapping was a powerful tactic, wallbreaking everything.
    - Roar = Phazing was created, and was spamed since then.
    - Sandstorm = Used more when Evasion Clause din't existed, for passive damage.
    - Sketch = Best move of the game, too bad Smeargle is awful.
    - Sleep Talk* = This thing also shaped a lot GSC.
    - Spikes = An important move, not used all the time, but it's really effective.
    - Synthesis = Same as Moonlight.
    - Whirlwind = Same as Roar.

    Wow, this's hard to tell, if we look at the future, maybe Baton Pass, but here, on GSC, Belly Drum, Curse, Sleep Talk, Spikes, Heal Bell, Roar and Whirlwind were almost a mini-game inside of the main battle, but that mini-game were the most important thing on each battle, and when you losed the control of that game, you just losed. If I have to say one, I could say Roar/Whirlwind, why? Simple, huge boosters like Sword Dance always existed, but now with Roar/Whirlwind you can phaze them, you can finally force at total power a switch, that power is so important that almost any team carries at least one phazer, not just for Snorlax, but rather for almost the complete metagame.

    Spikes helped a lot the phazing, but that was not so-vital as phazing alone. Baton Pass was powerful, but you needed at least two turn to start a chain, that is a lot of time, and thus, was more a thing of high risk, high reward stuff. Curse was omnipresent, but actually not that important was were RestTalking, it was more a sort of counter move that other thing. Sleep Talk with Rest almost shaped GSC, but, even then, Sleep Talk by alone was not SO important as Rest alone, Sleep Talk just made things faster and less prone to luck. Heal Bell was great, but it's not so easy to use as make it vital. And Perish Song was great, but not flawless or easy to use.

    ADV (Attacks)
    - Focus Punch = Needs prediction or a subsitute, but it's power is awesome.
    - Overheat = Good last punch for some Pokémon.
    - Superpower = A lot of power and without need of anything else, good.
    - Volt Tackle = Great move, too bad it's just for Pikachu.
    - Meteor Smash = Excelent move, bad type, but Metagross is great.
    - Dragon Claw = Good option for Dragons, but that's pretty much all.
    - Leaf Blade = Sceptiles' Signature is a pretty good move.
    - Fake Out = Good for scouting, and scouting is a need.

    Not too much stuff here... maybe Focus Punch is the best move introduced and used, and mostly to break some important walls like Tyranitar, but that's pretty much all, important, but not really vital. Fake Out deserve a special mention for doubles, it was and is still an important move there, too.

    ADV (Support)
    - Aromatherapy = Heal Bell clone, more variety with Clerics.
    - Bulk Up = A better Curse, not bad, but that's pretty much all.
    - Calm Mind = Maybe the best move of the game, some monster did born with this.
    - Dragon Dance = Not omnipresent, but great eitherway.
    - Helping Hand = Important on doubles.
    - Memento = A good support move, it's not hard to start a sweep with this.
    - Snatch = Great if you predict OK, but that's pretty much, high risk, high reward.
    - Stockpile = Shaky distribution, but still a good move.
    - Tail Glow = Great move, too bad Volbeat is not that good...
    - Taunt = An important move should be said, it shaped somewhat the metagame.
    - Will-O-Whisp = Other important move that shaped a bit the metagame.
    - Yawn = Flawless sleep and seudo-phazing.

    Obviously the best move is Calm Mind, but Dragon Dance, Taunt, and Will-O-Whisp are pretty near, anyway, you can really cripple stuff with just Taunt or Will-O-Whisp and sweep with Dragon Dance, but Calm Mind is more safer, someone heard of Suicune?
  14. Dre89

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    Spore originated in gen 1, unique to paras-parasect.
  15. Hemp Man

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    Toxic is the TM Koga gives you in RBY.
  16. Jorgen

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    Curse is definitely a big part of GSC, although if you're talking about all-time usefulness then yeah, I'd say to leave it off. Also, combining Spikes and Rapid Spin in one entry is kind of cheating.
  17. Crystal_

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    If this is something akin to the most dominant pokemon but applied to moves, I think these would be the main moves to consider:

    Explosion / SelfDestruct?
    Rest
    Spikes
    Rapid Spin
    Recover (merged with Softboiled / Milk Drink / [Roost?])
    Hidden Power
    Roar / Whirlwind

    Obviously it's hard to put attacking moves in the same level as these defining moves because there is a lot of more variety with the attacking moves and sometimes it depends on the Pokemon (especially with the DP special split), so it's hard to quantify them (with the exception of the hyper versatile Hidden Power). In addition, many of the best attacking moves in gen 3 and especially 4 didn't exist in the first gen or even if the first two.

    However, if we were to include an attacking move, I guess it would be Earthquake because it has been the only viable ground-type move until Earth Power came and ground has been an hystorically good offensive type. I guess EQ would belong to a next second level along with moves like Substitute, Reflect, Light Screen, (although Reflect has always been a more available move than LS, so that should probably be taken into account) Thunder Wave, Toxic, Sleep Talk, and perhaps Heal Bell/Aromatherapy as well, MAYBE even Baton Pass.

    Then, there are also some stat boosting moves worth considering like Curse and Swords Dance. Other attacking moves that might make the cut are Pursuit and the elemental special attacks (Thunderbolt, Fire Blast, Ice Beam, maybe in that order), and you also have the game-defining RBY move Body Slam that saw usage in GSC as well. The misc mention goes to Counter, and we can also make a case for the sleep inducing moves if we count all of them as one.

    Having said that, I think this could be more accurate and enjoyable if we separate by generation or by move category (support, damage-dealing, status, ...). Maybe we can start with the generation division, but not necessarily only considering moves that appeared in that specific generation (say, consider Spikes in ADV, Explosion in GSC etc).
  18. Awoken

    Awoken

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    While I like Crystal's suggestion, I feel that not considering only moves that appeared in a specific generation would make the lists a bit redundant and highly subjective (Explosion vs. Rest is really a toss-up). The point of this was originally to chronicle the generation shifts through the perspective of moves, although I would be willing to change the format if there is a general consensus that it would be more accurate and enjoyable.

    Also, Nyara, you pretty much just listed every new viable move introduced in each generation... and some that aren't even used too much. I agree with most of the bold though.
  19. Borat

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    Yes, but it was changed in GSC. Rest had negligent impact on RBY, and is arguably the most popular move in GSC. And a staple for all future gens really.

    Same argument for Toxic.
  20. M Dragon

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    Well, it wasn't really rest what changed, but sleep mechanics.

    I agree that it started being huge in GSC though (same with Toxic)
  21. Borat

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    Either way, Rest is the generation defining move in GSC. If GSC could be summed up with one Pokemon, it'd be snorlax. In one move, it'd be Rest.

    Like Hyper Beam RBY.
  22. Jorgen

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    I'd say Body Slam defines RBY better than Hyper Beam.

    Anyway while Rest defines GSC, I think this has more to do with Leftovers and RBY-style max defenses than it does with the move itself. You can afford to just not move for a couple turns because you've got the tankishness and passive healing to shrug off hits. Plus it wasn't introduced in GSC, and the goal of this thread seems to be to find moves that were introduced in each generation that were most influential.

    As far as GSC goes, Curse, Belly Drum, Mean Look, and Perish Song definitely give those 5 listed a run for their money. Also I'd reorder it so that Spikes and even Sleep Talk come before Hidden Power; Hidden Power is good, but it's really only fantastic on the Electrics. Double-Edge should probably count, too. It gets a pretty significant buff in GSC, and in the lower tiers STAB Double-Edge backed by a halfway-decent Attack stat automatically makes a Pokemon good.
  23. Magcargo

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    Gen5
    5. hurricane: a new powerful flying stab allow special flying types to function more effectively.
    4. scald: causes burns and is useful for bulky waters.
    3. Psyshock: Special walls are not as problimatic.
    2. Dragon tail: a useful move that makes phazing a bit easier and causes residual damage.
    1. Volt switch: a great scouting move allowing you to get out of tough situations.
  24. Awoken

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    You could say the same for Roar/Whirlwind.

    Anyhow I will update the lists when I have time. Maybe make a separate section for moves that didn't reach their full potential until later gens (Rest, Toxic, Outrage, etc.)?
  25. SHUCKLE MAN

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    If we're talking all metagames, I think the most influential move introduced in RBY was Earthquake. But if we're talking the specific generation I'd say it was Hyper Beam (or Blizzard, Body Slam, Thunderwave, Hypnosis).

    Toxic was in Gen I, but it wasn't very good because if the opponent switched out after being hit by Toxic the game would "forget" that it's Toxic and it would change to normal poison. And also, RBY is a lot about status, I guess since there's no way to heal them in that generation (except Sleep wears off after a certain amount of time and Freeze can only be removed by being hit by a Fire mvoe) especially paralysis, freeze and sleep. It's beneficial to get hit by Toxic (or burned by a Fire move) because it essentially protects you from the much more severe statuses that the oppoent will be trying to inflict on you.

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