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New and 'creative' moveset/EV spread thread Mk. 5

Discussion in 'Stark Mountain' started by Lee, Oct 21, 2009.

  1. Azlanslayer


    Jul 9, 2010
    Hi,Actually Me And My Friend UnhandledException Made a New Set For Gallade Which Is a Anti-Lead For OU Metagame


    Item: Life Orb
    Ability: Steadfast
    EVs:248 HP/252 Atk/8 Spd
    Adamant nature
    - Shadow Sneak
    - Zen Headbutt
    - Earthquake / Leaf Blade
    - Ice Punch / Leaf Blade

    How It Fares Against Other Leads:
    Show Hide

    Azelf: Shadow Sneak is a 2HKO.

    Aerodactyl: Ice Punch, KO with Shadow Sneak.

    Infernape: You Will Flinch But Stead Fast Activates.Earthquake, KO with Shadow Sneak.

    Swampert: This You Must Switch

    Metagross: Earthquake!

    Jirachi: EarthQuake!

    Machamp: Zen Headbutt OHKOs, never misses coz of No Guard.

    Roserade: !@#$% Sleep Powder sux. Anyway, switch to someone to take the sleep, switch back, Ice Punch and SS for the kill.

    Ninjask: Tricky. This is where the lack of Taunt really hurts. Ice Punch is what I usually choose. If it doesn't Sub, its gone, if it does, I just go on Shadow Sneaking. But no one really uses it anyway.

    Heatran: Earthquake OHKO's.If Shuca,2HKO

    Tyranitar: Earthquake 2HKO's Lack Of Close Combat :S

    Gliscor: Ice Punch Then SS

    Dragonite: Ice Punch OHKO

    Hippowdon: Switch To Somebody To Kill It

    Starmie: SS Is a 2HKO


    Ev's And Nature:

    Adamant To Maximize Attack To Ensure OHKO's Against Other Leads

    252 Attack: Maximize Attack

    8 Spe: I Dont Really Know Why Its Here...You Can Put It WhereElse :S

    248 Hit Points: To Survive Hits Better And LO Recoil


    Its Pretty Good Beating Other Leads,It Can Be A Mid / Late Game Sweeper.Starmie Also Fails To OHKO Due To His High SpD.The Only Disadvantage Is That His Low Defenses Which Makes Him Frail Against Physical Attackers.It Fails Against Swampert..You might Want to use Leaf Blade To Kill Swampert Though

    The Best Partner Is Heatran,It Resist Ghost/Flying While He Can Counter Roserade Using The Restalk Set.Heatran Also Can Stealth Rock Then Again Makes Him A Good Partner :)


    UnhandledException For Making The Moveset While I Do The Ev Spread

    Smogon Of Course :)
  2. Donny Mae.

    Donny Mae.

    Sep 20, 2009
    You do have a very valid point, and yes, in hindsight most of the calcs are pretty pointless, would you like me to run of some more valid ones? However, Gyarados doesn't learn roost ;_; and outrage provides very good neutral coverage late game.
    Most of the time you can expect to get more than 1 boost, but rapid spin support is a huge benefit.

    @[DR] Infernape.

    That's a pretty solid set, it seems to do well against most leads. Though defensive Zapdos and Gliscor wall it if it doesn't have ice punch. Scarfgon could also switch in for the revenge kill and deal heavy damage. Perhaps you could put some anti-status moves (Wow, hypnosis, toxic, take your pick) In order to shut down Hippowdon and incoming counters?
  3. NitroMetalHead


    Jul 23, 2010
    I have used a gallade set similar to this, and there are some options you can put.

    1) Why Earthquake? Close Combat is much more needed on something like Gallade. Besides, Earthquake has 200 BP when super effective, and Close Combat has 180 when neutral. Plus CC covers more than Earthquake does.

    2) Item change. Lum berry is extremely useful when combating sleep leads like Roserade, Crobat or even Yanmega. Focus Sash on the other hand can let you survive otherwise fatal physical attacks that Gallade doesn't enjoy due to paper thin physical defense, and let you maximize speed and attack (without life orb of course)

    Just throwing that out there.
  4. Donny Mae.

    Donny Mae.

    Sep 20, 2009
    I think the reason he uses EQ is because CC causes the defence drop, which allows some leads (eg Jirachi and Metagross) to destroy Gallade.
  5. Lucalibur


    Aug 9, 2009
    you lose to both regardless. iron head from jirachi 2hko you and scarf make sure not even +1 gallade outspeed, metagross always beat you with meteor mash+bullet punch. CC> EQ and psychic cut>zen headbutt, plain and short.
  6. NitroMetalHead


    Jul 23, 2010
    Came up with a different set today, and it will blow your mind.

    Attacking Lead
    Glalie @ Focus Sash
    Trait: Inner Focus
    EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spd
    Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
    - Ice Shard
    - Crunch/Ice Fang
    - Earthquake
    - Explosion

    Most people see glalie as an inferior Froslass, only useful as a spiker. However, I have found way to use Inner Focus, Explosion, Priority Ice attacks, and OK movepool as an attacking lead, both in OU and UU.

    This actually works! However, you might say "Well, how does glalie differ from other leads in OU? What does Glalie accomplish what Metagross, Azelf, Aerodactyl, Jirachi, Swampert and others don't?". Azelf does not have a priority move, inner focus, an Ice attack, or explosion. Swampert and Machamp do not have inner focus, or explosion. Aerodactyl does not have inner focus, a priority move, or explosion. Infernape doesn't have explosion, Roserade doesn't have explosion or a priority move. Metagross is the only thing that comes closest to Glalie, but glalie has inner focus, and can be used in UU matches.

    Believe it or not, most people would think it will use spikes, and almost every time, they will taunt you, allowing you to get a free turn to KO them. This is how glalie stands against the most common leads:

    Azelf: Crunch + Ice Shard
    Swampert: Explode.
    Machamp: Lose.
    Jirachi: Lose, unless you are lucky to pull off 2 Earthquakes.
    Aerodactyl: Ice Fang + Ice Shard
    Infernape: Glalie can take fake out with inner focus, and Earthquake + Ice Shard
    Roserade: Lose, unless Sleep Powder misses and then you can Ice Fang/Earthquake + Ice Shard
    Heatran: Earthquake 2HKO's it, unless it isn't running Shucka Berry, then it's a 1HKO
    Tyranitar: Earthquake 2HKO's, but sandstorm WILL wear you down and break your sash.
    Gliscor: Ice Fang
    Empoleon: Earthquake + Ice Shard
    Ninjask: Ice Shard or Ice Fang, depending on the situation
    Smeargle: Lose
    Dragonite: Ice Fang
    Crobat: Ice Fang 2HKO, be careful of hypnosis
    Yanmega: Ice Fang + Ice Shard, be careful of hypnosis

    Ambipom/Persian: Fake out should be no problem due to inner focus, and Ice Fang can put a dent to it. Or you can just go ahead and explode.
    Uxie: Don't bother Exploding, it will not KO defensive variants. Crunch can put a dent to it.
    Electrode: Earthquake + Ice Shard
    Moltres: Explode
    Steelix: Lose. Earthquake doesn't do much, and it gets the chance to set up.
    Alakazam: Crunch + Ice Shard
    Claydol: Ice Fang puts a dent to it, however, it can set up reflect and still be of use afterwards.
  7. Shizzle


    Mar 11, 2009
  8. Azlanslayer


    Jul 9, 2010
    Close Combat Is Only Good Against Heatran And Ttar....EQ Is For Metagross Which Depends On Your Team Weakness..

    @ Lucalibur Earthquake Is For Metagross As Turn One They Only SR No MM or BP..Turn Two I Beat Them Or They BP me..As For Psycho Cut,It Doesnt OHKO's Machamp While Zen Headbutt Does.

    Close Combat Reduces Your Defences Though :S
  9. 360Swampert


    May 31, 2010
    @ [Dr]infernape

    How do you deal with Bronzong with that gallade as Eq misses unless they use a heatproof lead set
  10. Lucalibur


    Aug 9, 2009
    383 Atk vs 196 Def & 384 HP (70 Base Power): 380 - 450 (98.96% - 117.19%)

    on average it ohko most of the time. just felt like pointing that out, and as far i know standard machamp dont run def evs.

    with CC or EQ it doesnt matter, if gross decide to atack first then he win, if not then he still set rocks in field, doing his job. in the end you either lose gallade or he set rocks and then switch something to kill gallade. the thing is that gallade would rather have a reliable and powerful STAB move then non-stab EQ that hit the exactly same targets.
  11. MBO20000


    Jul 18, 2010

    Thanks for the input! After looking at this for a little bit I have come to what I think is an improvment.

    Force Palm
    EVs: 252hp 108Def 148sp.def

    What do you think?
  12. jc104

    jc104 Humblest person ever
    is a Contributor Alumnus

    Aug 27, 2009
    You should try it out on the ladder. It is obvious that this would require excellent prediction to work, which will become more difficult after initial surprise value. Choosing the ability that you use is difficult. Guts could certainly make you into an offensive threat if you get statused. This means that you can actually switch it into a status user.

    I would also advise the running of some calcs to work out the required defense investment. You don't want to be OHKOed by any common unboosted physical moves, but you also want to be able to KO when you counter, as you likely will only get one chance.

    You should also try a similar set for Snorlax, since he has many similar attributes but better stats, particularly special defense. The only issue is the primarily physical fighting weakness.
  13. MBO20000


    Jul 18, 2010
    Thanks, after doing some damage calculations I found many common OU physical attackers would not be able to score a OHKO such as swords dance scizor or DDgyarados even a D-punch from a machamp will fail to OHKO as long as it is not banded. Though I found that a scarfted heracross close combat will do a lot of damage so I think a partner such as gengar would be a good choice.
  14. muffinhead

    muffinhead b202 wifi vgc
    is a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus

    Mar 6, 2010
    Mixed Dragonite is a force, but this set has the potential to be even scarier.
    Fearless Dragonite
    Item: White Herb
    Nature: Rash
    Ability: Inner Focus
    Draco Meteor
    Thunderbolt/ Earthquake
    EVs: 58 Attack/ 252 Special Attack/ 200 Speed

    Strategy: This particular set focuses on the use of Draco Meteor or Superpower with White Herb. Dragonite forces switches like no other pokemon, so the idea is to use Draco Meteor on the switch (Superpower if you know the opponent has a steel that they will switch in). Stab Draco Meteor hits everything extremely hard, but this set goes for a two turn attack. Whereas a normal Dragonite would use Draco Meteor and gain the power of Life Orb, if a steel switched in on it, the Dragonite is setup fodder due to the 2 stage drop in Special Attack. White Herb helps out by losing the Life Orb boost, but in return, needing almost no prediction and no stat drop or recoil. The EVs outspeed Crocune, defensive Zapdos, and bulky Gyarados.

    Enough talk, here are the calculations against some common defensive counters:

    Draco Meteor v. Skarmory (Spiker): 41.9% - 49.4%
    Draco Meteor v. Suicune (Crocune): 46% - 54.2%
    Draco Meteor v. Zapdos (Physically Defensive): 59.8% - 70.5%
    Draco Meteor v. Swampert (MixPert Lead): 56.7% - 66.8%
    Draco Meteor v. Gyarados (Bulky Dragon Dance): 56.8% - 66.8%

    These calculations do not look like much, I know. But when you factor in that Dragonite outspeeds all of these threats and can guarantee the 2HKO with either Flamethrower, Thunderbolt, or a second Draco Meteor with no recoil from Life Orb and no stat drop, this Dragonite hits harder and survives longer than the standard MixNite. In Suicune's case, Thunderbolt does not quite 2HKO, but Surf does negligible damage.

    Damage Calculations against common offensive threats switching in:

    Draco Meteor v. Scizor (Choice Band): 36.7% - 43.1%
    Draco Meteor v. Starmie (Life Orb): 91.2% - 108% (OHKO with Stealth Rock)
    Draco Meteor v. Flygon (Choice Scarf): 100%

    Scizor is the only thing that will put a dent in this Dragonite, as Bullet Punch does 52.3% - 61.6%. Keep in mind that while you can stay in to kill Scizor with Flamethrower, if Stealth Rock is on your side of the field then you will be at less than a quarter of your health.

    Team Options: Stealth Rock is very important, as it allows you to finish off Zapdos without using Draco Meteor again and nets the KO on incoming Starmie. A Rapid Spinner is always useful when evey time Dragonite switches in, he loses 25% of his total health. If you do not want to weaken Dragonite in the fight against Scizor, you could use a trapper such as Magnezone. Magnezone can also help out against particularly bulky Bronzong.

    Please keep in mind that this Dragonite is not merely for a one-time use, even without Life Orb he hits quite hard. Changes are welcome :D
  15. Maketsu


    May 26, 2010
    Epic LGS Snorlax
    Snorlax @ Leftovers
    Impish Nature
    252hp, 252 def, 6 SpDef
    - Stockpile
    - Belly Drum
    - Body Slam
    - Rest

    The main idea of Epic LGS Snorlax is setting up 3x Stockpile, which is possible with his bulkiness. Stockpiles makes Snorlax very difficult to to take down or even make damage and gives you great opportunity to use Belly Drum. After using Belly Drum you have to heal yourself and gettin rid off status problems with Rest. No problem, Snorlax will survive those 2 turns. When he wokes up you can begin to sweep with STAB Body Slam and the game is finished. EV's are for giving max bulky for setting up Stockpiles and Belly Drum. Also more offensive EV spread is good.

    Team Options
    Like everyone see, Ghost-types totally walls this guy. So Pursuit trapper, like ScarfTar or Scizor are very good team mates. Also Something which can take care off Fighting-type SD set uppers is important team mate for Snorlax. Steel Killer Magnezone can easily cover problems with Scizor and Gliscor can easily counter Lucario.

    I know this would be a bit frail in Metagame, but enjoy for it epicness.
  16. Delko

    Delko After the game, the king and pawn go into the same box
    is a Tutor Alumnusis a Team Rater Alumnusis a Super Moderator Alumnusis a Battle Server Moderator Alumnus

    Sep 7, 2009
    Since you are more or less trying to sweep with Snorlax you could use Return as his mono-attacking move.
    Your EV's are also a bit "easy" (On Snorlax it's better to run a + SpD nature).
  17. Colonel Darren

    Colonel Darren

    Mar 11, 2010
    My only real complaint, other than the Ghost issue (Which you have stated), is that this particular set will take a LONG time to set up properly. Even with the +6 attack, certain defensive threats of Steel and Rock in the metagame could potentially shut you down. Also, you'd have to beware of Trick users early on.

    I don't see this particular set being able to set up every game, more of a high-risk high-reward set. It's a creative set, and could be effective, but the amount of time it would take would just be a bit long for him to set up fully (Three turns of Stockpile, one of Drum, and then you have to Rest for two more turns.)

    Also, anything faster like SubRoost Zapdos can utterly wall this set as well, stalling it out of Body Slam. Be aware that you would be hitting like a truck and taking damage like it was nothing, but Snorlax is still slow.
  18. bearsfan092


    Aug 7, 2008
    Another issue I'd like to bring up about that Snorlax set, aside from Trick users, ghost types, and physically bulky steels like Skarmory is the prevalence of late game Close Combat, namely from Lucario, Infernape, and Heracross.

    +0 Adamant SD Lucario to +1 Snorlax: 59.5% - 70.2%
    +0 Jolly SD Infernape to +1 Snorlax: 52.7% - 62.2%
    +0 Adamant ScarfCross to +1 Snorlax: 50.4% - 59.5%

    All three of those pokemon could be considered late game cleaners. If you have the bad luck to be facing one of these, you will not be able to Belly Drum. Even worse, if you do Belly Drum, you've effectively sealed your fate, as you will be KO'd if they catch you resting, and they can attack you before you rest.

    And in return, you can only manage this, as you'll probably be unboosted if you find yourself against a CC'er:
    +0 Snorlax Return against Scarfcross: 50.2% - 59.1%
    +0 Snorlax Return against SDape: 54.3% - 63.8%
    +0 Snorlax Return against Lucario: 28.5% - 33.5%

    And let's say you get a Belly Drum and Rest in:
    +6 Return against Spiker Skarmory: 42.2% - 50%
    +6 Return against Spiker Forretress: 39.8% - 47.2%
    This means that you can be phazed out rather reliably.

    So in short, for this Snorlax to be effective, it would have to be pretty late game indeed to work successfully. On top of that, you'd need your opponent pinned to the extent that they don't have any CC'ers, Physical Walls, or Ghosts. The latter two categories make up generally half of a stall team, and many offensive teams pack Close Combat in some form. If you seriously had your opponent at that point, I think you'd be able to clean up with just about anything, but it would be more efficient to use a traditional late game sweeper that is more versatile.
  19. Hobbers


    Jun 15, 2010
    I don't know if this one has been posted here, but anyway:

    Metagross @ Leftovers/Lum Berry
    Relaxed - 252 Atk/252 Def/ 4 HP
    IV: 31/31/31/31/31/0
    Hammer Arm
    Gyro Ball
    Sleep Talk

    Hammer Arm lowers your speed, so Gyro ball deals more damage. Rest and Sleep Talk keep you alive. EV and nature are just my try, I'm not so good at it.
    Some Damage Calcs (open)

    Hammer Arm vs. 252HP/252 Def Blissey : 57.1%-67.2%
    More to come

    Your thoughts?
  20. greg3064


    Feb 26, 2009
    I wouldn't run Lum on a ResTalker, so definitely Leftovers. 252 HP EVs, then the rest in either att or def. Looks decently effective. Maybe Meteor Mash over Gyro Ball.
  21. Colonel Darren

    Colonel Darren

    Mar 11, 2010
    Good concept, but you have a critical weakness to Gyrados and Zapdos. I would reccomend running a Chesto-Resto version dropping Sleep Talk for Thunderpunch or a similar coverage move. A physically defensive Zapdos can simply Heat Wave you away and a bulkier Gyrados can use you as setup fodder.
  22. Poke00Master


    Jul 23, 2010
    Dancing Lead

    [​IMG]Gallade @ [​IMG] (Focus Sash)
    Trait: Steadfast
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Speed
    Jolly Nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
    - Close Combat
    - Earthquake/Shadow Sneak
    - Swords Dance
    - Psycho Cut/Ice Punch/Night Slash

    Gallade has a great attack and great movepool. This Lead takes the Stealth Rock turn , which most Leads Use, to use Swords Dance. If this Gallade finds a Fake Out Lead, such as Infernape, his ability enters into action boosting the speed. Lead Azelfs will be brought to the focus sash, thanks to Night Slash, and then die thanks to Shadow Sneak. Metagross also do not Have the chance, thanks to the Earthquake. So this is an excellent Lead, with no counters. It can also serve as a revenge killer in the Late Game.

    Your Opinion?
  23. Colonel Darren

    Colonel Darren

    Mar 11, 2010
    It won't do jack to Swampert, who could roar you out or attack after Close Combat or Psycho Cut. Lead Azelf might taunt you during SD. Most Infernape won't Fake Out a Gallade and just go for the rocks.

    If you carry Shadow Sneak, Metagross wins. If you carry Earthquake, Azelf wins. It also can't do much to Ninjask/Smeargle/Roserade.
  24. Arcticblast

    Arcticblast Never did anything about Swagger
    is a Smogon Social Media Contributor Alumnusis a Super Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Server Moderator Alumnusis a Past SPL Champion

    Nov 29, 2008
    A lot of leads Taunt first, rendering Swords Dance useless. That gives it plenty of counters.

    Here you have what is called the 4-Move syndrome. You can't run all of CC/EQ/ShadowSneak/SD/PsychoCut/IcePunch/NightSlash, only 4 of those moves. This inevitably leads to you being defeated by whatever you didn't choose to specifically counter.
  25. Poke00Master


    Jul 23, 2010
    if i'm carrying Shadow SNeak, CC Koes after one SD, if im Carryng Earthquake, Night Slash KOes. Ninjask might be a pain, but not if i have Shadow Sneak, I can Break each Sub, and then when i think he will Baton Pass i Shadow SNeak. Roserades migh be a problem , but i can get a litle of hax and Sleep Power misses, allowing me to make it go to the sash, and then Shadow Sneak it. the same with Smeargle.

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