On a further note, how is that set not outclassed by the Cleffa/Swinub family? They pull of the FEAR set more efficiently, being immune to both weathers, while the former is immune to entry hazards as well. If you are going to post a gimmick set, atleast make sure it does something no other pokemon can(and I don't mean Synthesis + Endeavor + Quick Attack either).
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New and 'creative' moveset/EV spread thread Mk. 5
- Thread starter Lee
- Start date
haunter
Banned deucer.
You won't restore your sash anyway. Focus sash can be used only once. Also, please guys, this is a serious thread so let's try to post sets that can have an actual use in the current metagame. No more gimmicks. And be sure to have tested your sets before you post them here!
Anti-Lead Swampert (work in progress)
Swampert @ Choice Specs
Modest / Torrent
252 SpAtk / 92 Spe / 164 Def
Earth Power
Surf
Ice Beam
Stealth Rock / HP Grass / Focus Blast / Counter / Sleep Talk
Why Specs Swampert? He has STAB Earth Power coming from 85 base SpAtk. The only Pokemon who can beat that are Camerupt (too slow, weak to Earthquake and Surf / Waterfall), Groudon, and Gastrodon (too slow). Nidoking also has 85 base SpAtk, but has weaknesses to Water, Ground, and Ice.
EVs: 92 Speed outpaces 8 Speed Metagross (with neutral natures).
Azelf: 2HKO with Surf. I survive a 0 Attack Explosion with 33%.
Metagross: Outspeed and OHKO with Earth Power, if no Shuca Berry.
Jirachi: Always OHKOs 80 HP / min defense Jirachi. 2HKO if Jirachi Tricked away my Specs.
Aerodactyl: 2HKO with Surf. Because he'll probably Taunt first turn, I take no damage.
Swampert: I outspeed and have a 94.48% chance to 2HKO max / min defense Swamperts with Leftovers. HP Grass OHKOs.
Infernape: Takes a Fake Out and a Close Combat with 31% HP left. I'm 2HKOd by Close Combat, though, but to 2HKO me he doesn't get Stealth Rock up.
Roserade: I am either OHKOd by Leaf Storm or put to sleep by Sleep Powder. Bad.
Hippowdon: Outspeed and OHKO max / 88 SpDef Impish Hippowdon.
Ninjask: Ehhhh. Ice Beam until he Baton Passes away, or Stealth Rock and switch out.
Smeargle: Switch to something to take the sleep, go from there.
I actually tested this set. The odd lead Tyranitar and Infernape with Grass Knot are unpleasant.
Swampert @ Choice Specs
Modest / Torrent
252 SpAtk / 92 Spe / 164 Def
Earth Power
Surf
Ice Beam
Stealth Rock / HP Grass / Focus Blast / Counter / Sleep Talk
Why Specs Swampert? He has STAB Earth Power coming from 85 base SpAtk. The only Pokemon who can beat that are Camerupt (too slow, weak to Earthquake and Surf / Waterfall), Groudon, and Gastrodon (too slow). Nidoking also has 85 base SpAtk, but has weaknesses to Water, Ground, and Ice.
EVs: 92 Speed outpaces 8 Speed Metagross (with neutral natures).
Azelf: 2HKO with Surf. I survive a 0 Attack Explosion with 33%.
Metagross: Outspeed and OHKO with Earth Power, if no Shuca Berry.
Jirachi: Always OHKOs 80 HP / min defense Jirachi. 2HKO if Jirachi Tricked away my Specs.
Aerodactyl: 2HKO with Surf. Because he'll probably Taunt first turn, I take no damage.
Swampert: I outspeed and have a 94.48% chance to 2HKO max / min defense Swamperts with Leftovers. HP Grass OHKOs.
Infernape: Takes a Fake Out and a Close Combat with 31% HP left. I'm 2HKOd by Close Combat, though, but to 2HKO me he doesn't get Stealth Rock up.
Roserade: I am either OHKOd by Leaf Storm or put to sleep by Sleep Powder. Bad.
Hippowdon: Outspeed and OHKO max / 88 SpDef Impish Hippowdon.
Ninjask: Ehhhh. Ice Beam until he Baton Passes away, or Stealth Rock and switch out.
Smeargle: Switch to something to take the sleep, go from there.
I actually tested this set. The odd lead Tyranitar and Infernape with Grass Knot are unpleasant.
Jolly
252hp/252spe
Swift Swim
Aqua Ring
Toxic
Protect
Substitute
Leftovers
Yes I have tested this, and with the right setup, it is very possible to pull this off, the strategy is, to either setup toxic or aqua ring first, depending on the situation, or you can sub first, if you know the opponent is gonna buff up or something, anyways. With Aqua Ring + Left Overs + Toxic, its kinda like a leechseed stall, but for water pokemon who cant use leech seed, most might recommend Milotic over Lumineon, but hey Lumineon is just plain sexy. Anyways, Yeah, same concept here as other stallers, any questions or criticism?
That set is stopped in it's tracks by several pokemon. Taunt shuts it down to start. Also, anything that is immune to toxic and can break it's sub will be able to beat it at some point. RestTalk pokemon also shut it down and several things can use it as set up bait, i.e. Lucario, Refresh Latias, Charge Rotom. Anything faster that can use sub will also take it out. Could you please list which pokemon you were actually able to set it up against?
Abomasnow, Walrein, Slowbro, those are the three it worked on =/
May I ask why Swampert has 164 Def EVs? And why not put them in HP to retain overall bulk. But I guess the explosion is important.
I've been trying out this Infernape set on my stall team, and it works fairly well as a wild card. The crux of the set is Slack Off, a move that is almost always overlooked. This stallbreaker Infernape counts on the fact that many stall teams count on residual damage to kill Infernape, and uses the switches he forces to get time to recover.
@Life Orb
208Atk/108 SpA/192Spe Naive
-Close Combat
-Overheat
-Slack Off
-U-Turn
The moveset pretty much speaks for itself. Close Combat and Overheat are very powerful STAB moves. Slack Off is for recovery. U-Turn is for when you don't feel like predicting and want to get some decent damage off. U-Turn also deals hefty damage to common Infernape switch-ins.
Some Damage Calcs:
Overheat vs Standard Resttalk Rotom-A (252/136)
271 Atk vs 284 Def & 304 HP (140 Base Power): 187 - 222 (61.51% - 73.03%)
This is is a 2HKO half the time even after the attack drop without Stealth Rock in play, all the time with Stealth Rock. So much for spin blocking.
Overheat (-2) vs Specially Defensive Skarm (252/252)
135 Atk vs 239 Def & 334 HP (140 Base Power): 222 - 264 (66.47% - 79.04%)
Even at -2, Overheat still manages to cripple even specially defensive Skarmory, giving an easy Overheat+CC kill.
U-Turn vs Spinner Starmie (136/156):
296 Atk vs 245 Def & 295 HP (70 Base Power): 158 - 188 (53.56% - 63.73%)
U-Turn vs Latias (0/0)
296 Atk vs 216 Def & 301 HP (70 Base Power): 180 - 212 (59.80% - 70.43%)
Common switchins to Infernape get wrecked, and you get a free switchin to a counter too.
Stone Edge, Thunderpunch, HP Electric, HP Ice, and a load of other moves can go in the last slot, depending on your needs. Stone Edge hits bulky Salamence and Gyarados for about 50%, while HP Electric and Ice are guaranteed OHKOs on their respective targets after SR. Thunderpunch hits Tentacruel for about 70%.
208Atk/108 SpA/192Spe Naive
-Close Combat
-Overheat
-Slack Off
-U-Turn
The moveset pretty much speaks for itself. Close Combat and Overheat are very powerful STAB moves. Slack Off is for recovery. U-Turn is for when you don't feel like predicting and want to get some decent damage off. U-Turn also deals hefty damage to common Infernape switch-ins.
Some Damage Calcs:
Overheat vs Standard Resttalk Rotom-A (252/136)
271 Atk vs 284 Def & 304 HP (140 Base Power): 187 - 222 (61.51% - 73.03%)
This is is a 2HKO half the time even after the attack drop without Stealth Rock in play, all the time with Stealth Rock. So much for spin blocking.
Overheat (-2) vs Specially Defensive Skarm (252/252)
135 Atk vs 239 Def & 334 HP (140 Base Power): 222 - 264 (66.47% - 79.04%)
Even at -2, Overheat still manages to cripple even specially defensive Skarmory, giving an easy Overheat+CC kill.
U-Turn vs Spinner Starmie (136/156):
296 Atk vs 245 Def & 295 HP (70 Base Power): 158 - 188 (53.56% - 63.73%)
U-Turn vs Latias (0/0)
296 Atk vs 216 Def & 301 HP (70 Base Power): 180 - 212 (59.80% - 70.43%)
Common switchins to Infernape get wrecked, and you get a free switchin to a counter too.
Stone Edge, Thunderpunch, HP Electric, HP Ice, and a load of other moves can go in the last slot, depending on your needs. Stone Edge hits bulky Salamence and Gyarados for about 50%, while HP Electric and Ice are guaranteed OHKOs on their respective targets after SR. Thunderpunch hits Tentacruel for about 70%.
Takes Infernape's Fake Out + Close Combat and Azelf's Explosion better (a bit), not sure if it's worth it, though.
Camerupt works better at doing this since it has the ability to OHKO Bulky leads through resist berries thanks to STAB and better power. The real kickers is that with lava plumes burn rate you will beat Azelf leads and with Eruption you will more often than not OHKO Hippowdon and Bronzong before they get any set up. Also OHKO's non rindo berry Swamperts and *outspeeds* almost all Metagross leads before they get to set up SR. Heatran is OHKO'd through Shuca Berry.
This set has already been posted and discussed in Mk.4 so people don't need to comment on it's viability unless you really wish to. Damage calcs defensive and offensive included in that thread
Camerupt (M) @ Choice Specs
Ability: Solid Rock
EVs: 4 HP/252 Spd/252 SAtk
Modest nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
- Eruption
- Hidden Power [Grass]
- Lava Plume
- Earth Power
In comparing the 2 Swampert does better against Jirachi due to bulk and Aerodactyl due to STAB
It seems that people are more eager to show someone why a Pokemon set wasn't worth posting rather than commenting on a set with more thought put into it. As a result, a genuine post has been buried under several fruitless ones.
My lurking skills tell me that it was probably unintentional, and I don't want to offend anyone or start an argument, so I'll just post again. I really want to know what people think.
My lurking skills tell me that it was probably unintentional, and I don't want to offend anyone or start an argument, so I'll just post again. I really want to know what people think.
The set is decent, but I'm not really sure why you just wouldn't run the standard set. Jolly Scarf Flygon will never OHKO you, and Meteor Mash does a shit ton to most dragons:
Adamant 252 Atk Metagross w/LO:
- vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Flygon: 95.4% - 112.6%
- vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Salamence: 86.7% - 102.4%
- vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Latias: 86.8% - 102.3%
All OHKOs with Stealth Rock, and all may be OHKOed. Ice Punch isn't really necessary, as just because it says "super effective" does not warrant its use.
And so we come to the standard set when you eliminate Ice Punch, with ThunderPunch/Explosion as your last two options. Life Orb is more beneficial, giving you a bigger boost than Expert Belt against Gyarados, as well as providing boosts against dragons. If anything, Ice Punch is an option instead of ThunderPunch/Explosion, but not both on the same set.
Zapdos @ Life Orb
Ability: Pressure
Nature: Mild / Lonely
EVs: 252 Atk / 252 SpA / 6 Spe
- Thunderbolt
- Drill Peck
- Heat Wave
- Agility
This is mostly just novelty and I know there are much better options for a mixed attacker, but this could be fun to use. If you use Lonely nature, Drill Peck will do about 44-52% to 0 HP / 252 Def Calm Blissey so there is a somewhat nice chance to 2HKO it with Stealth Rock in play.
Ability: Pressure
Nature: Mild / Lonely
EVs: 252 Atk / 252 SpA / 6 Spe
- Thunderbolt
- Drill Peck
- Heat Wave
- Agility
This is mostly just novelty and I know there are much better options for a mixed attacker, but this could be fun to use. If you use Lonely nature, Drill Peck will do about 44-52% to 0 HP / 252 Def Calm Blissey so there is a somewhat nice chance to 2HKO it with Stealth Rock in play.
I'd probably use MS Zapdos if I wanted to beat Blissey, or the SubRoost variant with some Toxic Spikes support. Also, why not just Baton Pass that Agility? It requires far less prediction, and you can still pull off a mini-sweep as electric/fire is pretty decent coverage(hell, anything is when you can just pass out of Swampert).
Thanks for the comments Blasphemy. I'm also sorry if my tone came out wrongly. I shouldn't have written that, I was far too impatient and judgemental.
Your right about the Metagross. Even though I suggested Jolly instead of Adamant, The opponent's Pokemon will have taken some residual damage, making Ice Punch pointless, as you said.
Now, looking back at the analysis, using 196 speed EVs is mentioned, something I didn't notice before. This the only change I have made is Adamant to Jolly, which is barely worth mentioning. So now I am kicking myself for wasting everyone's time with a set identical to what is already up. I feel incredibly stupid...
So much for making a good impression. Soz guys.
Your right about the Metagross. Even though I suggested Jolly instead of Adamant, The opponent's Pokemon will have taken some residual damage, making Ice Punch pointless, as you said.
Now, looking back at the analysis, using 196 speed EVs is mentioned, something I didn't notice before. This the only change I have made is Adamant to Jolly, which is barely worth mentioning. So now I am kicking myself for wasting everyone's time with a set identical to what is already up. I feel incredibly stupid...
So much for making a good impression. Soz guys.
Flygon @ Haban Berry / Expert Belt
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Ability: Levitate
Hasty nature (+Spe, -Def)
- U-turn
- Dragon Claw
- Earthquake
- Fire Blast
Nothing special really, it bluffs the scarf and nets surprise kills against mence / latias / other flygon / heatran etc. with the help of haban, and then other surprise kills / 2hkos against stuff like skarmory who think you're scarfed and switch in on an eq. Still scouts just as well and you can still utilize the resistances it has, but this set should be used with caution (as in don't actually try to revenge stuff)
Other natures and items could be used like yache or something
Infernape @ Life Orb
EVs: 62 Atk/252 SpA/196 Spe
Ability: Blaze
Naive Nature (+Spe, -SpD)
-Overheat
-Grass Knot
-HP Ground
-Fake Out
A new anti-lead Infernape I just drew up. It was created around the basis of KOing every top 10 lead without taking (a lot of) damage, and it didn't turn out quite as planned, but it sort of works. 252 SpA becuase it needs as much firepower as it can get. 196 Spe to outrun anti-lead Infernapes by one point/KO. Rest into Atk for boosted Fake Out. How can I improve it? Also, this is how it fares vs most of the top 10 leads:
Azelf - Fake Out/Overheat, gg
Metagross - Fake Out/Overheat, gg
Jirachi - Fake Out/Overheat, gg
Aerodactyl - ?
Swampert - Fake Out/Grass Knot, gg
Infernape - Fake Out/HP Ground, should be enough
Roserade - Fake Out/Overheat, gg
Hippowdown - Fake Out/Grass Knot (base 120), gg?
Ninjask - ?
Smeargle - Not scarfed, Fake Out/Overheat, scarfed, hmm
It has trouble with Jirachi (scarf) and Azelf, but they usually set up Rocks after the FO, so it's usually a clean KO. Ninjask/Aero, no clue how to handle those.
All help's appreciated.
Azelf - Fake Out doesn't KO it, then you get OHKO'd by Psychic
Metagross - Standard Occa Lead Gross isn't 2HKO'd by Fake Out+Overheat, then it OHKOs you with EQ
Jirachi - It can just U-turn out before the Overheat comes, just like it does against regular LeadApe
Aerodactyl - Dies faster than the LeadApe as all it can do is Fake Out, where the standard is 2HKO'd due to Sash
Swampert - Fake Out/Grass Knot, gg
Infernape - Fake Out/HP Ground, should be enough
Roserade - Regular LeadApe beats out non-Scarf Roserade anyways
Hippowdown - Fake Out/Grass Knot doesn't 2HKO with Leftovers
Ninjask - It Protects as you Fake Out, Subs, and then it just starts setting up
Smeargle - Wins against the non-Scarfed variants, but normal LeadApe does the same thing
Lead Azelf rarely has psychic.
Azelf is faster than Jirachi.
Azelf is faster than Jirachi.
Azelf leads rarely have psychic? According to the stats Azelf has Psychic 55.6% of the time. Scarf Jirachi leads are also pretty common while Azelf rarely run CS.
My mistake then.
This is a creative Suicune set I recently made. It works very well. I call it "E-Cune."
E-Cune (Less Speed + More Bulk)
Suicune @ Leftovers
Nature: Bold
EVs: 252 HP / 160 Spe / 96 Sp.Def
~ Surf
~ Rest
~ Calm Mind
~ Reflect
Alright, so as you can see this is no ordinary Suicune. Unlike the other bulky tanking Suicune variants this set takes Suicune's defenses and speed into consideration. Here is an example of what this thing is capable of:
Standard Support Celebi's Grass Knot does 56.93% - 67.33% damage to Crocune without a CM.
Standard Support Celebi's Grass Knot does 37.62% - 45.05% damage to Crocune + 1 Calm Mind
Now lets see what E-Cune can do:
Standard Support Celebi's Grass Knot does 52.48% - 62.38% damage to E-Cune without a CM.
Standard Support Celebi's Grass Knot does 34.65% - 41.58% damage to E-Cune + 1 Calm Mind
Not only that. Keep in mind that E-Cune outspeeds standard support Celebi with its 246 Speed. Making Calm Minding even easier! And faster set up. Which also makes the difference between Crocune and E-Cune huge.
Here's another example:
Adamant Choice Band Tyranitar's Stone Edge does 44.80% - 52.97% damage to Crocune.
Adamant Choice Band Tyranitar's Stone Edge does only 27.72% - 32.92% damage to E-Cune + Reflect. Making -Cune extremely bulky in Def and Sp.Def over Crocune.
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Here's another E-Cune set I made that has more Speed and less bulk.
E-Cune (More Speed + Less Bulk)
Suicune @ Leftovers
Nature: Timid
EVs: 252 HP / 200 Spe / 56 Sp.Def
~ Surf
~ Rest
~ Calm Mind
~ Reflect
This Suicune is given more speed for you to Calm Mind and Reflect more easily and be able to outspeed many threats like Adamant Lucario and Salamence.
E-Cune (Less Speed + More Bulk)
Suicune @ Leftovers
Nature: Bold
EVs: 252 HP / 160 Spe / 96 Sp.Def
~ Surf
~ Rest
~ Calm Mind
~ Reflect
Alright, so as you can see this is no ordinary Suicune. Unlike the other bulky tanking Suicune variants this set takes Suicune's defenses and speed into consideration. Here is an example of what this thing is capable of:
Standard Support Celebi's Grass Knot does 56.93% - 67.33% damage to Crocune without a CM.
Standard Support Celebi's Grass Knot does 37.62% - 45.05% damage to Crocune + 1 Calm Mind
Now lets see what E-Cune can do:
Standard Support Celebi's Grass Knot does 52.48% - 62.38% damage to E-Cune without a CM.
Standard Support Celebi's Grass Knot does 34.65% - 41.58% damage to E-Cune + 1 Calm Mind
Not only that. Keep in mind that E-Cune outspeeds standard support Celebi with its 246 Speed. Making Calm Minding even easier! And faster set up. Which also makes the difference between Crocune and E-Cune huge.
Here's another example:
Adamant Choice Band Tyranitar's Stone Edge does 44.80% - 52.97% damage to Crocune.
Adamant Choice Band Tyranitar's Stone Edge does only 27.72% - 32.92% damage to E-Cune + Reflect. Making -Cune extremely bulky in Def and Sp.Def over Crocune.
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Here's another E-Cune set I made that has more Speed and less bulk.
E-Cune (More Speed + Less Bulk)
Suicune @ Leftovers
Nature: Timid
EVs: 252 HP / 200 Spe / 56 Sp.Def
~ Surf
~ Rest
~ Calm Mind
~ Reflect
This Suicune is given more speed for you to Calm Mind and Reflect more easily and be able to outspeed many threats like Adamant Lucario and Salamence.
"Leadcruel"
@shuca berry
Timid nature: 252hp 176spe 80def
~Hydro pump
~Ice beam
~Toxic spikes
~Rapid spin/Protect/Knock off/HP electric/HP grass
This Tentacruel is designed for balanced or bulky offensive teams to set up toxic spikes with ease. Hydro pump is needed to 2hko azelf, while ice beam gives the usual coverage on grass types and dragons. Rapid spin can be used if your team hates rocks and the hidden powers can hit specific targets. Protect is to scout trick leads and to catch explosions. Knock off to be annoying. The evs are to outspeed max speed Roserade and the rest were thrown into defenses to help take earthquakes better. You can run max speedd to tie +speed 100s or you can put the rest in special attack. Why not use roserade anyway? Although leadcruel doesnt have sleep powder he trades that ability to beat more leads. Heres how it fares vs. the top 10 leads.
1. Azelf: if it taunts hydro pump 2hkos. if it doesnt, use toxic spikes. Knock off can remove any light clays. win
2. Metagross: unlike roserade you are not ko'd by eq+bp. Eq still 2hkos you so just spike twice. win
3. Jirachi: Protect first, then toxic spike. win
4. Aerodactyl: Ice beam 2hkos. so if it taunts it doesnt get to attack. win
5. Swampert: spike twice while you are 2hkod. win
6. Infenape: spike twice. you can also hurt it with hydro pump. again fares much better then roserade here. win
7. Roserade: ice beam while you are put to sleep. tie
8. Hippowdon: hydro pump or spike. win
9. Ninjask: ice beam it to death. when you think its gonna pass, spike. win
10. Smeargle: either spike or attack while you are slept. tie
Timid nature: 252hp 176spe 80def
~Hydro pump
~Ice beam
~Toxic spikes
~Rapid spin/Protect/Knock off/HP electric/HP grass
This Tentacruel is designed for balanced or bulky offensive teams to set up toxic spikes with ease. Hydro pump is needed to 2hko azelf, while ice beam gives the usual coverage on grass types and dragons. Rapid spin can be used if your team hates rocks and the hidden powers can hit specific targets. Protect is to scout trick leads and to catch explosions. Knock off to be annoying. The evs are to outspeed max speed Roserade and the rest were thrown into defenses to help take earthquakes better. You can run max speedd to tie +speed 100s or you can put the rest in special attack. Why not use roserade anyway? Although leadcruel doesnt have sleep powder he trades that ability to beat more leads. Heres how it fares vs. the top 10 leads.
1. Azelf: if it taunts hydro pump 2hkos. if it doesnt, use toxic spikes. Knock off can remove any light clays. win
2. Metagross: unlike roserade you are not ko'd by eq+bp. Eq still 2hkos you so just spike twice. win
3. Jirachi: Protect first, then toxic spike. win
4. Aerodactyl: Ice beam 2hkos. so if it taunts it doesnt get to attack. win
5. Swampert: spike twice while you are 2hkod. win
6. Infenape: spike twice. you can also hurt it with hydro pump. again fares much better then roserade here. win
7. Roserade: ice beam while you are put to sleep. tie
8. Hippowdon: hydro pump or spike. win
9. Ninjask: ice beam it to death. when you think its gonna pass, spike. win
10. Smeargle: either spike or attack while you are slept. tie