"Super powerful Solarbeams" are worthless. Solarbeam is never useful; the weather could be changed while you're in the middle of trying to use it.
Worthless? Haha, hardly. And in case you didn't know, almost every sun sweeper set that has made it past C&C for Gen.4 has had Solarbeam as a necessity."Super powerful Solarbeams" are worthless. Solarbeam is never useful; the weather could be changed while you're in the middle of trying to use it.
That may have been correct last gen, but who knows how pokemon will be ranked in Gen V? Blaziken with speed boost will most likely be OU and able to take advantage of Sun boosted STAB as well as boosting speed. Urugamosu can Butterfly Dance to raise its stats while firing off insanely powerful Sun and Swarm boosted STABs. Charizard may become more common with its Solar Power, Venusaur likewise with Chlorophyll. Shanderaa's Fire STAB becomes even deadlier in Sun, making abusing its ability viable in Sun. In that respect, its hard to say if Sun will be a weaker weather in an entirely new metagame.Problem is Sun teams are much easier to beat than Rain teams. I might get beaten down with a stick for saying this but yeah. You are relying on UU and NU Pokemon to take advantage of Sunny Day.. you are either using Chlorophyll users whose STAB moves aren't boosted by the weather or Fire types which are merely firing off 1.5x boosted attacks.. and Solar Beam and Fire-typed moves are easily switched into by Sand Stream mons and Politoed.
That's why I think Ninetails is not going to be that hot.
I concur that Ninetales should go not go offensive. I also kind of get what you mean about Sun being less of an all out offense than Rain, but at least last gen it was more of a Toolbox strategy than typical balance imo - Many sweepers capable of destroying, but with worse STAB than water, meaning Sleep Powders, Fire moves, etc are used to overcome its weaknesses and broaden the nature of the team. Similar anyway.Sun teams , for me, are meant to be balanced, not offensive like Rain.
They can sweep, disable, annoy or stall all in one package, but they aren't as effective as the other weather counterparts (Jack of all trades, master of none).
For me, the traits of weathers are:
Rain: offensive
Sun: Balanced
Hail: Stall
Sandstorm: bulky sweeping
My opinion.
Anyway, i think Ninetales should try to go defensive. Too bad it can't use Pain Split with Drought...
It's risky to go offensive with Ninetales: something could shut it down, and then Sun be replaced with Sandstorm or something.
I'd like to say Cresselia is a very good teammate to Ninetales (you need a way to get rid of Tyranitar. Dugtrio or something takes care of that), having that WTF bulk and Morning Sun curing 66% of it's health.
CM set seems pretty durable.
Indeed, rain and sun last gen were by definition the offensive weathers, with Sand and Hail with their residual damage a little more stall oriented.I disagree with your choice of words that sun isn't "as effective as the other weather counterparts". especially in regards to Generation 4. Whenever I would make a team with Tyanitar in it, I would of course look at the pokemon who could abuse sand the best and I thought the list was tiny and filled with a lot of bad pokemon. The list of pokemon that could abuse hail, I thought was even tinier. On the other hand, when looking at all the pokemon who got godly speed and super powerful solarbeams, even though a lot of them are NU because not a single pokemon can permanently bring out sun that's not banned, I always thought it was almost godly (check out how many of those sun abusers can even work in ubers) I always thought of the versatility factor as a major major bonus, not a weakness in any way. I'm not sure how many people havn't heard this by now (probably not many) but level 1 Kyogre and Groudon were considered too powerful for OU by the people testing him. Those test results are obviously sketchy, but that says a lot about just how good rain and sun are.
Shanderaa seems like a good teammate for Tales aside from the fact that they both aren't fond of TTar one bit (though if you predict its switchin and trap it then it could help with this). But in any case, many Sun sweepers have issues with being totally walled by a few pokes (ie Urugamosu over its HP choice) and Shanderaa can be used to abuse this. I'm kind of wary about planning a team in this way in any case, in case Shadow Tag gets banned.Yay. I'm gonna make a Sunny Day team. I'm thinking of what the team should consist of. I'm thinking of Shanderaa right now, but I don't know what else should be on. I've never made a Sunny Day team and it seems interesting.
You can read the Sunny Day Guide. It's for DPPt but the basic idea is right. I suggest Urugamosu as a sweeper. It's powerful and has the great move Butterfly Dance...just look here.Yay. I'm gonna make a Sunny Day team. I'm thinking of what the team should consist of. I'm thinking of Shanderaa right now, but I don't know what else should be on. I've never made a Sunny Day team and it seems interesting.
Worthless? Haha, hardly. And in case you didn't know, almost every sun sweeper set that has made it past C&C for Gen.4 has had Solarbeam as a necessity.
Plenty of reasons:I was wondering if theres a reason nobody is interested in pairing ninetails with charizard. I mean, charizard has solar power now and a fireblast with stab,solarpower,sun,10%item has 446bp on over 400 special attack assuming max EV.
Ha, i went with the same formula pretty much. Spinners were never really necessary for me last gen - I just ran an anti-lead certain to be able to stop SR, though with the Mischevious Heart users this gen people may start using it mid-game.For my DPPt Sunny Day teams(which was like, half my teams), I usually went with two fire types, two grass types, a dedicated supporter and a lead. Usually one of the fire types and one of the grass types had Sunny Day in it's moveset, just in case.
Also, having a Rapid Spinner on Sunny Day teams is good. Doryuuzu looks like a good choice right now. As well as Rapid Spinning, it has Sand Throw so might even be able to handle Tyranitar.
Because the Moth is new and noone likes Sun lol.How are people having 10 pgs on that ugly moth Urugamosu and only 3 on Ninetails, when having Ninetails out makes him 10x better.
I think with some luck Ttar could well be revenged with ease by something also functioning as a Sun Sweeper - Tangrowth with defensive investment and Focus Blast for example. but yeah, Ninetales will rarely be a lead due to its high speed.In terms of OU, and trying not to turn this into a Sunny Day discussion, Hariyama has to be one of the best partners for the likes of Ninetales. Hariyama is one of the best Tyranitar counters around, which gives it a great opportunity to come in and sub up for a SubPunch set. As hinted in previous posts, sun teams hinge on more synergy than the average hyper-offense rain team.
I don't see Ninetales as a good lead though. If you're using it for Sunny Day, you want to have your hazards up and have scouted the team. Pretty sure if I run this in OU, I'm packing Will-o-wisp too haha.
Some fun things that Choice Scarf Ninetales can do with 492 Speed if the team needs specific functions to be fulfilled or specific Pokemon to be scared off or KOed. All of the damage calculations assume 252 Special Attack:
- Outspeeding 252 Speed Adamant/Modest (or anything that isn't Speed+) Cloyster after Shell Break and firing off Energy Ball.
- Giving two shots at Will-O-Wisp on inbound Tyranitar even if it's holding its own Scaf, and on inbound Salamence without a Scarf.
- Similarly, allowing for last-ditch Will-O-Wisp or Grudge shots on a +1 Dragon Dance Gyarados, Tyranitar, or Feraligatr.
- OHKOing or scaring away offensive Azelf, non-Scarf Gengar, Scarf Metagross, Adamant Agility Metagross, and non-Scarf Weavile, who are all outsped by Timid Scarf Ninetales and axed by Fire Blast or Overheat.
- Seriously injuring any Starmie who expects to outrun it.
- Inflicting serious damage on Blaziken and Infernape to help negate the boosts they get from her sun.
I think the main issue with Zard is that its survivability is low and its fragility high, and its speed isn't high enough to make up for its huge damage output. Not to mention DD boosts the wrong stat with Solar Power. urugamosu, meanwhile, gets the much better Butterfly Dance and significantly higher base SpAtk (as well as better secondary STAB).Plenty of reasons:
- Two SR weak pokémon on the same team is bad, and Charizard takes 50% SR damage every switch in
- There are lots of pokémon competing for the spot of "fire-type on a Drought team"
- Charizard is extremely weak to priority moves and revenge killers (Scarftran can switch in on both Solarbeam and any Fire-type attack, for example)
- Charizard takes residual damage not only from entry hazards, but also from Solar Power (and LO if you decide to go with that)
- Without the sun, it is nowhere near as useful (sun can be stopped by plenty of things, eg Drizzletoed or TTar)
Serebii says that Ninetales can learn Energy Ball by TM this gen.I apologize in advance if this was already answered but...
Remember how last gen Energy Ball was a TM, and Ninetales had it as an egg move but couldn't learn the damn TM? Yeah... 'bout that.
Has stupid bullshit like that gone away in gen V? Just wondering.
Aye, that was the main logic behind my posts a few pages back. WoW TTar on the switch, then flee taking little from pursuit. Next time Tales switches in, if TTar does to counter the weather, HP Fight off Modest and LO will 2HKO all non Calm TTar with the Burn damage (through Lefties). Having the ability to take it out is very useful, it's same the same can't be said for Politoed.If Ninetales does manage to burn Tyranitar on the switch it, she won't care about a weakened Pursuit nearly as much. And it also means Tyranitar can no longer switch into Ninetales, or risk being 2HKOed by HP Fighting.
Well Modest LO 252SpAtk Gochirizu only does 44.8-53.1% on max/max Politoed, so it simply cannot take out Defensive Politoeds, sadly. If using a Chlorophyll sweeper with higher speed than most Politoeds run, however, that can be used to counter it.I'm just wondering, but could the Psychic- Typed Pokemon with Shadow Tag be used to get rid of Politoed? If so then they'd be great partners.