NOC Medieval Mafia - Game Over: Majora's Maskians Win

Votecount:

Quagsires (4) - kingofkongs, Cereza, Ditto, Staraptor Call
loudkirbyking (4) - Dummy007, zorbees, Blue_Tornado, askaninjask
No Lynch (1) - wickdaggler
Cereza (6) - Leethoof, billymills, Yeti, Brammi, loudkirbyking, Rediamond
wickdaggler (1) - zorbees
Blue_Tornado (1) - Crux
Brammi (1) - Snike
Dummy007 (2) - Kaxtar, Paperblade
Leethoof (1) - Jalmont
MK Ultra (1) - Quagsires

I think this is right.
 
and yeti's post just above are probably the best arguments against Unclesam, or the only ones I believe hold any weight. Others can reiterate what they think too.
Thanks much, billy.

I see reasoning now on why Cereza is a target and would like vote for Cereza right now, but I also recall, from the vote count about 10-20 posts up(And the one right above this) that people were voting for Quagsires. I'd personally rather know the options of who's the problem, but from the recent posts of removing votes on Quagsires, I think it's safe to say @@Vote Cereza@@, since the logic shown to me seems quite sound... I think.
 
Unvote, @@Vote Cereza@@

The only reason I was hesitant to lynch US was that he was furthering discussion. Since that isn't in play, I think Cereza has become the elephant in the room given US' highly Agressive behavior and unwillingness to let his own scumminess be discussed
 
...The only other real evidence against you is that you have suspected seemingly every player in the game without voting or taking an extremely harsh stance against anyone, which to me seems like you're just throwing stuff until something sticks. The tl;dr posts help that thought too...
I'll sue Yeti for using an argument I did 300 posts ago later, once Smogon's esteemed lawyer gets Walrein to admit that Internet was almost the same as RotS. The arguments are pretty similar, though she does state it a bit more eloquently, and I disagree with her on the ability to gain info from this lynch from US' posts due to his large number and many shiftings of opinion (though we can definitely gain info from others posting about him).

I can't find where I said it, but I think I said the only reason I was not voting US is that his opinions we all knew he is worth something to be allied with. US is definitely one of the more respected users in this game, and more experienced than many others, but I have no idea what Cereza brings to the table that compares to it. From what I know, I would think that Cereza has a lot to explain that US' aggressive attitude towards the entire game as well as his general demeanor of simply attacking everyone and anyone for small things makes him suspicious, though he was able to deflect this in my mind so far in that we would lose a valuable villager if he truly was with us.

However, this is quickly turning into a bandwagon, which is a sign that some mafia may have already jumped on board, and making me opposed to it by default. In addition, I stress that Cereza should be allowed to read through the thread and post before a lynch is conducted, although it is unlikely the outcome can be changed, it is at least a step in order to make sure we are performing a safe lynch and to get one more set of opinions out there that will soon either be validated or invalidated based on cardflip.

In addition, about the only points that can be made about defending a lynch of Unclesam is I do not believe it will be easy to read what he thought from his posts, as he has accused so many times and changed his tone enough to make me believe we would not gain much from a lynch of him besides if we believe him to be scum based on his past actions (and, to be fair, he has gained the occasional vote here and there throughout the game, so its not like he's never been doubted). Also stressing that my previous arguments about past US statements about future activity are completely void after he subs out due to needing to spend his time elsewhere. I don't really find fault in the arguments Yeti stated above about the excessive posting and accusing, which are to an extent good enough alone for votes, just the info portion.

Again, I ask people hold off until Cereza posts, more so that we can make sure we are not shooting ourselves in the foot than actually not being suspicious of US.

Also stressing while US is now a huge topic of conversation, others should not be dropped by the wayside. I still stress MK's inability to post or be subbed, though at this point I am beginning to think he'd actually post and care more if he were mafia than village, since mafia from Smogon has a much larger chance of winning and knows whats happening whereas we do not. This does not, however, overcome my disappointment at his lack of posting and input. Rediamond I am glad to see show up again, but disappointed to see him just jump on the bandwagon, though I am glad to see he is not just thinking about voting inactives, which makes me think I may have been somewhat wrong about him (though not enough for him not to be regarded as suspect in my eyes)
 

zorbees

Chwa for no reason!
is a Forum Moderator Alumnus
@@Vote Staraptor Call@@

seemingly vanished when his name goes away, and lynch votes start piling up. He has not really posted too many reads, and has not addressed suspicions towards him. I don't really think either Cereza/Sam or Quagsires are mafia, as that last Quagsires post seems pretty good, and it seems as if many people are unwilling to go for a Quags lynch anyways. Basically, I expect more out of Staraptor Call.
 
Dear God you are all scummy and should be ashamed of yourselves for pushing this wagon so quickly.

We have a new player assigned to UncleSam's slot. Ergo, we have another player's posts we can analyze, compare to Sam's, compare to your standard townie behavior and, ultimately, get a much better read on that slot.

Lynching him before he posts a sufficient amount of content, especially before he flips, is a huge waste. It is in scum's best interest to deny us of this content, therefore it is in scum's best interest to get this wagon over quickly. To sum it up, jumping on this wagon with close to no hesitation as several players did is scummy and should be noted if/when Cereza flips town.

In extention, Quagsires being the first to note this enforces a Town!Quagsires read. (the only reason i'm essentially parroting here is because the second opinion is helpful / i'm typing while reading the thread and did not notice it earlier)

And, uh, I guess you could accuse Quags of trying to sway the lynch away from Sam, but that's pretty risky for scum as his (Cereza's) flip is almost set to happen and it would immediately paint him as scum. So, still reading this as town behavior.

My vote WOULD be staying on Crux if there was actual interest in reading him and not just dismissing him as uncooperative townie. Since there isn't, and since he insists on staying uncooperative as fuck despite the vote, this is a waste of time.

I WILL @@Vote Ditto@@[/b for my inability to remember any decent contribution made by him, especially in recent days, and as I recall he's had some shifty behavior regarding the Quags wagon, which I now read as scum-motivated (due to how it was built up and due to my current Town!Quags assumption). He first seems hesitant with joining in but supports it regardless (those links show both the hesitaton and the subtle support), then insists on going though with it when it looks to be dying down. This behavior is textbook scum behavior regarding town wagon hops and gives me a terrible vibe. In fact, the only thing that seems to support this change in opinion (or what I read as a wagon hop) is that Quagsires has STILL not posted a defense. Why in the world would this make him more likely to be scum?

I'm pretty fine with this vote and would ask for people to share their opinions on the subject. I am also requesting Cereza to post some content ASAP as their flip is still ridiculously likely.
 
Oh, and this just occurred to me, but I believe someone suggested that the hosts stop allowing us to edit posts and adopt the @@Unvote@@ system instead. I would suggest this as well.
 

askaninjask

[FLAIL ARMS]
is a Forum Moderator Alumnus
Ugh. I don't like any of these wagons. The one I support the most is Quagsires, to be honest. I had previously changed my vote to Metal Bagon because he would be inactive and unhelpful even if he were village, but now that he's subbed my purpose for voting him has gone away. I'm going to change my vote back to @@Vote Quagsires@@ as he didn't post for some obscene amount of time and STILL has yet to post a real defense, or an opinion of other users. We get more info from lynching Quagsires, actually, because now we know who was willing to get off of that wagon and who was willing to start a new one.

I mentioned it in an earlier post and I'll say it again anyway: An UncleSam lynch will not give us as much info as you think. Empty words don't actually mean anything on day 1. You can be sure that if he were mafia, he'd try to incriminate his pals as often as the people he knows are village. Once wagons actually start, then we have real information to run off of, since then there's an added danger to the whole thing that gives their posts another meaning.

It seems that most people don't agree with that though, so I suppose we will have to make do with analyzing his random votes.
 

Cereza

Tastes Like Candy
This is not funny guys. @.@ I wish I had time right now to reply to all these messages but unfortunately I have to go to work :( This wasn't a fun game especially since I'm being lynched for something somebody else did. All in all I have no Idea what the accusations against me are.
 

Ditto

/me huggles
is a Tournament Director Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Simulator Moderator Alumnus
In fact, the only thing that seems to support this change in opinion (or what I read as a wagon hop) is that Quagsires has STILL not posted a defense. Why in the world would this make him more likely to be scum?
Yeah. Not posting a defense is totally a protown move. How could I forget that? Thanks for showing me the error of my ways BT. You are so wise and totally don't need to get your head out of your ass.

Being serious, I have rehearsal for awhile now. After that I'll read up on shit and post something substantial.
 
Not scummy =/= protown.

You still did not answer why it is scummy. I don't believe an answer to that would take a long time to think up. You did have a reason for thinking this, did you not?

Fun fact: misrepping is one of the scummiest routes of self-defense that exist. You and scumbuddy Crux are enjoying this route more than you should be.
 
Quags, Ditto and Staraptor Call please post a lengthy argument against at least 2 people based on their recent votes and vote changes. However not including anyone who has posted in this thread less than 10 times (rediamond and the like).

It seems my unclesam wagon is attracting idlers and people sam pissed off, rather than those I hoped to convince. I am up for changing it elsewhere depending on your defences.

No defenses within 5 hours and we will lynch you (bit of leeway with ditto but you're active now so post what you can pls!)

Also I am glad to see Staraptor Call, Ditto, Quagsires and Unclesam each have their own following. I must be doing something right.
 

Ditto

/me huggles
is a Tournament Director Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Simulator Moderator Alumnus
Still at rehearsal, posting quickly to say two things.

1) Maybe Quagsires was inactive all over during the period of time that he didn't post, but I didn't think that. Avoiding posting in the thread when there are so many people who are trying to get you to post seemed scummy to me.
2) I hate tl;dr posts, so I try to refrain from posting them billy. And that request makes me feel that I am being assigned a school paper. Jus sayin
 
@zorbees 455: I post in this thread every time I go on Smogon. If you think I've been active-lurking except when people mention me, back it up with timestamps.

Regarding the Cereza bandwagon, I see strong signs of a scumpush. Yeti started the Cereza vote at the moment when US/Cereza was the least able to give a defense (while Cereza wasn't online and still had to read most of the thread). Before Cereza had a chance to read the thread and give a defense, some users (billymills, Brammi, Rediamond) jumped on the Cereza bandwagon with little reasoning of their own. I know people want this super-long day to end, but that's no excuse for bumrushing. Bandwagoning without posting your own reasoning is scummy any way you cut it. This push for a lynch of Cereza has made me suspect Yeti more. Yeti's unshakeable confidence in her assertions of UncleSam's scumminess was already suspicious, but the underhanded way in which she (and possible scumbuddies) pushed for a lynch on US/Cereza is especially scummy. @@Unvote@@, @@Vote Yeti@@.

Regarding the suspicion about my drawing attention to inactive users, I don't see how trying to encourage inactive players to be active is scummy at all. Increasing users' activity gives the village more users' opinions to work with on later days. Keep in mind that I never actually voted for any of the inactive users; I only told them to be more active, and if they were reading the thread but not posting, I called them out for not giving any opinions.

I continue to be suspicious of Brammi, not because he was giving bad advice about who should claim earlier (I now understand that to be due to his high ratio of mafiascum to smogon mafia experience) but because of his desire to rush to a lynch. He jumped on the Cereza wagon with no reasoning of his own, and actively advocated for a bandwagon earlier. In addition, he buddied Quagsires by calling him "obv town" in post #377, and acted very defensive when US called him out.

E: The reasons why I think Yeti waited to post her vote for Cereza until Cereza was offline are a) she posted her vote about 2 hours after Cereza's last post before that, and not many people are active for more that 2 hours at a time, and b) Cereza would have replied sooner if he had seen Yeti's post. I was not actually online when Yeti posted her vote, I'm just drawing the conclusion that Cereza was online from the evidence in the timing of posts.

I went after Brammi and billymills because, for reasons stated earlier, I thought they were acting suspiciously and not defending themselves adequately. As for UncleSam, I did raise the possibility of him being scum once, in the post I made after Leethoof's persuasion. As for Leethoof, I haven't made any new accusations against him now that he has explained his posts.
 

Yeti

dark saturday
is a Community Contributor Alumnus
i like how you were quite aware cereza wasn't online. paying rather close attention to your scumbuddy, are you, because i sure didn't bother to check whether he was on or not.

nice defense of him. please do it more.

i have also noticed you never seem to suspect US at all - rather, you have gone after Brammi and billy several times before (posts 157, 245, 307), as though you have an agenda against these users and are glad for the chance to accuse them of scummish behavior. it sure seems like you are highly aware billymills and Brammi are NOT on your team, which is why YOU can be so sure they are scum.

however, they are also probably buddied by more people than me, which makes me the easier target. please explain your vehement suspicions of billy, Brammi and Leethoof. i find persuaded-newbie Leethoof, who is conveniently voting for the guy you have consistently avoided suspecting, an easy target for you to have been forcing this entire time. unfortunately, he just plain isn't suspicious enough. noob.
 
I would fully recommend anyone vote Staraptor Call or Quagsires. Quagsires should currently have 6 votes, so concentrate on him if you want the day to end any time soon. I figure both of them are highly likely mafia, Staraptor is trying his hardest to defend Quagsires without explicitly saying it, and trying his hardest to advocate an Unclesam lynch again without saying it.

Quagsires is unreasonably silent, but enough people have given sufficient information about him for a number of lynch targets tomorrow. Neither Cezera or ditto lynch would provide as much information was a Quags or SCall lynch would. I'm sure activity will rise once the day is over, but I'd still like to ask Crux, MK Ultra and Snike their opinions on the current lynch if they can provide them.
 

Yeti

dark saturday
is a Community Contributor Alumnus
E: The reasons why I think Yeti waited to post her vote for Cereza until Cereza was offline are a) she posted her vote about 2 hours after Cereza's last post before that, and not many people are active for more that 2 hours at a time, and b) Cereza would have replied sooner if he had seen Yeti's post. I was not actually online when Yeti posted her vote, I'm just drawing the conclusion that Cereza was online from the evidence in the timing of posts.
i like how you were quite aware cereza wasn't online. paying rather close attention to your scumbuddy, are you, because i sure didn't bother to check whether he was on or not.
paying rather close attention to your scumbuddy, are you, because i sure didn't bother to check whether he was on or not.
because i sure didn't bother to check whether he was on or not.
didn't bother to check whether he was on
Your suspicious efforts to justify I intentionally attempted to strike the lethal blow when Cereza was unavailable to defend himself are shredding at the seams.

While I could easily be lying, of course, about not sitting around stalking everyone itg to see when they were last on, and last posted, and last looked at the thread, and last PMed billymills to get their identical game to the one they just made approved, and certainly when they last said something on IRC which truly must indicate they are present, it is more likely you are simply an obvious scumbuddy.

There are numerous of us no-lifers who are at our computers/desks for more than two hours at a time. I am not sure whether Cereza is one such individual or not TO "time my post" which followed billy's request for a lynch target, actually. I simply felt US would provide an interesting read to have his alliance confirmed, especially with a lack of his clearly-critical discussion-prompting posts, and I still find him a suspicious man.

I'm just drawing the conclusion that Cereza was online from the evidence in the timing of posts.
I'm just drawing the conclusion
I think you mean "asked Cereza in our mafia channel if he was online then."
Cereza was online
I see.

Staraptor Call please construct a proper argument where you do not poorly speculate to defend your possible-scumbuddy and contradict yourself.

I find Quagsires' continued apathy to post to be quite intriguing. One would think if he was scum, he would keep consistent tabs, or if his team can speak during the day, they would nag at him when, surely at least ONE of them, must be noticing there are numerous cries for Quags' attention to the thread. A scum, of course, has more to lose, and envisions themself as more important than a mere villager - the scum have fewer members and see themselves as more vital to the team's win, as they see the cohesive picture of their team and how each one can figure.

Thus, why does he continue to evade this thread, and numerous call-outs? Is he simply a damp scum who is outing himself acting so suspicious? Is this intentional, even, to allow billymills to look particularly clean for focusing on Quags' activity so much (not to say I particularly link billy and Quag or would assume much about one's alliance from the other's)? While Quagsires is certainly suspicious (one would think, unlike me during FFAs at times, he would remember to click the thread once a week >_o), it seems oddly un-scummish to neglect any defense, or even acknowledging he is reading this thread. More to lose, more of an interest.

Staraptor Call, on the other hand, has admitted he checks the thread every time he gets on Smogon. A scum, with plenty to lose, if he doesn't? Not definite by any means, as I try and click this whenever it gets a new post and I notice to keep up with the hoards of input that was happening, especially when US was in the game.

However, I find SCall to be a suspicious enough man. I don't place a great deal of force behind this accusation, but, his constant antagonism toward Leethoof has me curious - mafia who used their persuade to make Leethoof look like a liar and is trying to follow through? Or as someone, I think billy, said, village persuader trying to stir up fun, which just makes SCall mafia trying to pin something suspicious on a known villager?

Consider. I keep my vote on Cereza while he reviews this thread, if only because I still find US to be a sneakily-loud man, but I would not object to offing SCall or Idlesires (though I think the latter may be a mistake) if only to end this wretched day.
 
Loss of brain function today :/ will be short and to the point i think.
Starapper said:
This push for a lynch of Cereza has made me suspect Yeti more. Yeti's unshakeable confidence in her assertions of UncleSam's scumminess was already suspicious, but the underhanded way in which she (and possible scumbuddies) pushed for a lynch on US/Cereza is especially scummy. @@Unvote@@, @@Vote Yeti@@.
[unbolded just in case] And then he goes on about time and stuff that was a weak argument.
Yetiiii said:
However, I find SCall to be a suspicious enough man.
Hurray! We now have a relationship between these two people! They are at arms with one another! Part of me wants to say that Yeti retaliated in a suspicious way, i think its called OMGUS or something... Some of her arguments for Starapter seem a little like subliminal messaging.
yeti said:
Staraptor Call, on the other hand, has admitted he checks the thread every time he gets on Smogon. A scum, with plenty to lose, if he doesn't? Not definite by any means, as I try and click this whenever it gets a new post and I notice to keep up with the hoards of input that was happening, especially when US was in the game.
Kind of seems like you're trying to make staraptor sound more scummy than he is atm. Yes, his phrasing of things and accusation of you was a little rash, but being overactive shouldn't be considered a scumtell imo.

NICE EMPOOF IS STARTING TO POST THINGS GUYS!



I still have no solid scum reads where i feel comfortable with lynching, but it is D1 so i almost feel as if i'll never have a decent scum read until post lynch :/ Tomorrow I'll see who i find to be of most scum and give them a vote
 
Out of the jaws of death...

Sorry about not posting opinions and such. The Ursus maritimus transit has spotty wireless. On a more serious note, I was preoccupied with school work.

My position on today's lynch is still that Brammi would be one of the best lynches here. However, that does not look like it is in the cards at the moment.

Of the two leading candidates for the mayor of Nooseville, Staraptor Call is somewhat suspect, however I feel that @@Electing Quagsires@@is the optimal move. There's his 30 hour response cycle, aforementioned flawed arguments, and the fact that there's just so much information we can net from his demise, especially wrt individuals like my preferred lynch target.
 
A good deal of suspicion on SCall is a result of him trying to push the lynch away from Quagsires. This means that if Quagsires isn't mafia, the suspicion on SCall is on shakier ground. As a result, I'm going to agree that @@lynching Quagsires@@ is the best move.
 

Yeti

dark saturday
is a Community Contributor Alumnus
Some of her arguments for Starapter seem a little like subliminal messaging.
I am always sending subliminal messages ;)

As for Quagsires, I still don't see the logic in a mafian being such an inactive idling twat, however, if he does not post a comprehensive contribution to this thread before he departs for the night (and while I will surely not mention this game I can confirm his presence and activity by nagging him to do EXPERTS postgame !) I will place my vote on him, as I find him sufficiently suspicious that even if he is vanilla it will prove to be a relevant enough read on a fair bit of the game.

Staraptor Call, I have my eye on you ;x
 

Ditto

/me huggles
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Can wickdaggler please explain why the fuck his vote is still a no lynch? No lynch is the worst move a town can do, especially on D1. I know I am a bit hesitant at times to post a lynch, but that is much different then trying to No Lynch.

I think that Cereza would actually be a pretty good target, just to understand the context behind all of Sam's tl;dr posts. However, I am not so sure that this is our best move at this point. But something to consider going into D2.

I am also suspicious of billymills, I have been getting a bit of a scummy feel from him. Can't entirely explain, I guess it's mostly gut. Although I might be biased cause he has been pointing the finger at me quite a bit.

At this moment, I wanna say that Quagsires might be our best option still. Maybe this is just me being impatient (and my thought that D1 is pointless), but we need to finalize on a lynch at some point. We could get some good reads from it.
 

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