1. Welcome to Smogon Forums! Please take a minute to read the rules.
  2. Click here to ensure that you never miss a new SmogonU video upload!

np: BW Ubers Suspect Round 4 - When You Sleep

Discussion in 'BW Ubers' started by bojangles, May 15, 2013.

  1. Haruno

    Haruno Too cute to kill people :]
    is a Tutoris a Tiering Contributor Alumnus

    Jun 29, 2012
    What exactly counters darkrai without sleep clause besides multiple scarfers, multiple lum berries and thundurus? Since without sleep clause darkrai is by far one of the most prominent threats.
  2. ryan

    ryan ICONIC.
    is a member of the Site Staffis a Super Moderatoris a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Tutor Alumnusis a Team Rater Alumnusis a Battle Server Admin Alumnusis a Smogon Social Media Contributor Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Live Chat Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnus
    NU Co-Leader

    Jun 18, 2012
    Lum Ttar w/ Superpower lfgi
  3. Haruno

    Haruno Too cute to kill people :]
    is a Tutoris a Tiering Contributor Alumnus

    Jun 29, 2012
    Assuming they're running mono attacking sub/dark void/np set, but if they choose to opt for pure attacker.

    252SpAtk Life Orb Darkrai (Neutral) Focus Blast in Sandstorm vs 252HP/252SpDef Leftovers Tyranitar (+SpDef): 83% - 99% (336 - 400 HP). Guaranteed 2HKO.

    Tyranitar is outsped and falls with even the slightest amount of prior damage done to it.
  4. Alexander.

    won the 2nd Official Ladder Tournament

    Jan 24, 2012
    good luck everyone, should be interesting
  5. Darknesscrusher


    Jan 28, 2013
    Darkness shall rule... MUAHAHAHAHAHA

    All joking aside, I surely hope that this will be banned.
  6. shmogi


    May 16, 2013
    Darkrai with multiple voids is OP
  7. Joeyboy

    Joeyboy Has got the gift of gab
    is a Team Rater Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnus

    Nov 30, 2010
    Disappointed that Wake me up before you Go Go by Wham! wasn't used.
  8. TheUeki


    May 13, 2013
    I owned the whole opponent's team and I had 5 pokés, he had a 24 pct HP Genesect and Darkrai. He won. Go figure lol

    I think there is no further testing needed
  9. superstar


    Jul 25, 2011

    I think this battle is a good example of just how good Darkrai really is. My opponent tried to play around it with a SleepTalk Terrakion and a Ho-Oh, but to no avail. Bad Dreams is really the clincher, since it allows Darkrai to slowly wear down its checks every time it gets a sleep off. I had several misplays and still won.

    this thing is ridiculous ban plz
  10. Aasgier


    Dec 2, 2012

    Noctowl @ Leftovers
    Trait: Imsomnia
    Evs: 252 HP / 76 SAtk / 180 SDef
    Calm Nature
    - Heat Wave
    - Roost
    - Toxic
    - Whirlwind

    Heat Wave is obviously there for Ferro, Scizor and Genesect, and the latter two are OHKO'd after Rocks with given EV's (Noctowl survives a CB Bullet Punch from Scizor). Noctowl doesn't take Nasty Plot Thunderbolts in case you mispredict, but it can take one (then again, being Scarflocked into Dark Void doesn't do Darkrai any favours against Noctowl). Noctowl is as bulky as things can get if it comes to having Imsomnia/Vital Spirit access, but it is PU with a reason; its specially defensive stats and typing aren't sufficient to be a true special wall and is dead against everything with a physical attack, no matter the tier.
  11. AfroThunderRule

    AfroThunderRule *yawn* ez
    is a Tiering Contributor Alumnus

    May 25, 2009
    Butterfree is actually viable in this meta. o_o
  12. MegaKick


    Mar 27, 2009
    Magic Coat on random mons is a lot of fun right now since people love to spam spore and dark void without thinking. Resttalk kyogre is everywhere, and both forms of girantina are dropping since it's weak to dark pulse, which is a shame since its a great counter to breloom and heracross.
  13. Conflict

    Conflict Tournament Banned
    is a Pre-Contributoris a defending SPL Champion

    Jul 30, 2009
    Ban plz!

    Darkrai and Shell Smash-Smeargle are ridiculous.
  14. TheUeki


    May 13, 2013
    I was playing against a guy on Ubers with a quickly made up team, testing the new clause, and he missed one Dark void on me lol
    His friends started QQing saying it was gay and that I should forfeit.

    Arceus is pretty cool with a lum berry. Also, Thundurus can completely counter Darkrai with a +1 priority Substitute.
  15. Hack

    is a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Smogon Social Media Contributor Alumnus
    Ubers Co-Leader

    Mar 12, 2012
    Truth be told, 3 crits a d tail miss and a dark void miss isn't just a dark void miss
  16. GCSChris


    Dec 25, 2012
    ok looks broken to me! .... pls ban lol
  17. Melee Mewtwo

    Melee Mewtwo Banned deucer.

    Jan 26, 2011
    Fuck genies

    Butterfree 4lyf <3
  18. Scaevola


    Apr 4, 2013
    If you won't adjust your team then Darkrai can easily screws you up.

    [box]Turn 7
    Palkia is tightening its focus!
    The foe's Darkrai used Dark Void!
    Palkia fell asleep!
    Palkia ate its Chesto Berry!
    Palkia woke up!
    Palkia used Focus Punch!
    It's super effective! The foe's Darkrai lost 94% of its health!
    The foe's Darkrai fainted! [/box]

    That was fun but not works if Darkrai has Sub up.
  19. TheUeki


    May 13, 2013
    I'd had 3 dark voids miss in a row, 7 focus blasts, 2 stone edges, many other things. Trust me, luck doesn't usually smile on me. It's all about odds, it's how the game works, it isn't fair, but it's how it goes
  20. moonbase


    Sep 24, 2012
    Um guys. I can already tell how horrible this suspect round is going to be. I am sorry to say, but I am not going to participate in this round. It will be entirely too painful to ladder under these conditions. It is essentially the moody suspect round all over again, with the broken clause going on EVERY MOTHERFUCKING TEAM. I also will not be trying the broken ability, because I bet that at least 25% of the games will be decided upon by d void miss, or speed ties.

    Count me out.................. For now

    Time to bring out the ole kyogre set.
  21. Dr Ciel

    Dr Ciel Banned deucer.

    Jun 16, 2012
    Smashpass to Butterfree, lgi now.

    PROBLEMS #weedblazers
    is a Pre-Contributor

    Jul 29, 2012
    I don't know if I can be even fucked to attempt this, so so tedious..
  23. Focus

    Focus Ubers Tester Extraordinaire

    May 27, 2010
    f1rst (open)

    Okay. Now that players have started to realize Sleep Clause is gone (for now), matches have been a lot more interesting. I've played many games that came down to who outpredicts who, and so far the metagame has been a lot more interesting than I thought it would be. Random Pokémon are now carrying Sleep Talk or Lum Berry, so Darkrai is a lot harder pressed than before to find a free turn to hope that Dark Void misses. Darkrai pairs well with Deoxys-S and Heracross, from what I've found. Hera is still the best Darkrai counter in the game, and now that Darkrai is on most competent teams, Hera is a cool check to some odd Pokémon that Darkrai hates such as Terrakion, Arceus, and opposing Darkrai. In return, Darkrai can handle every Ghost-type with ease, potentially opening up a late-game Heracross sweep.

    252 Attack Deoxys-S is great because it can kill Genesect with Fire Punch, or at least keep it from coming in again with a layer of hazards. It can also Taunt or even Magic Coat opposing Darkrai to keep them from using Sub and Dark Void. I have to say that I was never much of a fan of Deoxys-S until this suspect test, but it's been working great as a suicide lead. Lum Arceus was a thorn in my team's side, because I elected not to have a spinblocker due to Darkrai. Extremespeed Rayquaza too.

    So now about that Sleep Clause... I am torn about whether or not it should be banned. It clearly recentralizes the metagame around dealing with Darkrai (or Smeargle?), but the defining difference in philosophy of Ubers versus the "real" tiers is that centralization of the metagame is not a good reason for something to be banned. Sure Darkrai is centralizing, but so is Kyogre, Normal Arceus, and Ghost Arceus. The big question to me is whether the No Sleep Clause metagame is so much less enjoyable or competitive as to warrant reintroducing Sleep Clause, and I'm leaning ever-so-slightly towards yes.

    So many of my games have come down to a Darkrai vs. Darkrai showdown. The most common Darkrai set I've seen is 252 SpA / 252+ Spe @ Leftovers with Dark Void / Dark Pulse / Substitute / Focus Blast. Whoever comes out ahead suddenly has a huge advantage. Similarly, two Deoxys-S leads facing each other basically have to play chicken with Magic Coat and Taunt. These mirror matchups are not new, but they have been happening annoyingly often. It's still far from turning entire games into rock-paper-scissors, but it feels like you can't make a wrong move or else you're playing one Pokémon down, and that Pokémon was your best Pokémon.

    A lot of top players seem to like matches that hinge on a crucial outprediction, so what's the problem? The rest of the aftermath. Dark Void has 80% accuracy. It's good, but relying on it is asking for trouble. Sometimes my opponent with a Choiced Pokémon predicted correctly and chose Sleep Talk, only to have Dark Void miss. Games have been pretty wild lately with the hax from 3- and 1-turn sleeps, Dark Void misses, Focus Blast misses, and loads of crucial mispredictions. With a layer or two of hazards up, a single missed play or instance of hax stings a lot.

    All this is nothing new to Ubers obviously, but having multiple Pokémon asleep for 1 to 3 turns (with the counter resetting when switched in), THEN the lack of Sleep Clause on top of all the stuff we had to deal with before is really pushing it. Sleep Clause is less necessary than Moody Clause, but I think it twists the metagame slightly more than the lack of OHKO Clause. I seriously doubt Sleep Clause will be done away with, because I see it as amplifying what already was "wrong" with Ubers: centralization and hax. Not that I see my vote mattering much, in the end. So far this metagame seems really unpopular if people don't even want to go for reqs this round...

    P.S. I'm pretty sure this has been used for another suspect test, but I thought this was the obvious song choice:
    Enter Sandman (open)
  24. Swagodile


    Jul 15, 2010
    This metagame sucks.

    The Sleep Clause needs to stay.
  25. Bossness


    Aug 18, 2011
    Sigh... everyone is complaining about the absense of Sleep Clause. Please don't stop this suspect test; after I qualify, I will get a tiering contributor badge (iirc). The metagame does not suck. I have been having more fun than ever since it is more challenging to ladder and get voting requirements this time. Use Lum Berry Arceus or Choice Band Ho-Oh (with Sleep Talk) if you are worried about Darkrai. Also... Darkrai isn't the main problem; it is Smeargle. Has anyone caught onto this? Smeargle can now put multiple Pokemon to sleep, so it does not have to worry about its SmashPass strategy getting ruined as often as it would have in the past. I love lulling multiple Pokemon to sleep with my Substitute Darkrai. I encourage all of you to try it! It is a perfectly legit strategy. The most powerful sleep abusers are: Substitute Darkrai and SmashPass Smeargle! Anyway, I don't see a huge difference on the ladder other than the army of Darkrais. My teams work as well as they have done in the past. It's no big deal.

Users Viewing Thread (Users: 0, Guests: 0)