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np: BW Ubers Suspect Round 4 - When You Sleep

Discussion in 'BW Ubers' started by bojangles, May 15, 2013.

  1. TheKiller7

    TheKiller7

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    loool i cant belive what im reading, this will stay banned but lets se how the game goes on
  2. TheFourthChaser

    TheFourthChaser #TimeForChange
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    Ok just qualified, figured I'd give my two cents.

    During my games I've seen an abundance of Sub Darkrai aside from my own, as anyone would expect it's number one. I've seen some Breloom, Smeargle, and even a Butterfree that were all able to make pretty good use of free sleep. As for "counters" the most common one was easily STalk Kyogre and then there was STalk Giratina and Lum Berry random mon. I saw STalk Zekrom a few times and I'm very impressed, this thing is seriously underrated. The only Insomnia user I saw was Primeape which didn't get the job done.

    I ran STalk Kyogre, Lum Arceus, and my own Darkrai in this test. Darkrai was game-changing in nearly all my matches and I'd say it probably took down an average of 2 mons a game. STalk Orge was a much better answer on paper since in game I found that one would need to Sleep Talk a Scald in order to take out the Sub and a combination of Dark Pulse, hazards and tormented dreams were usually enough to deal with my whale. Lum Arceus usually got the job done vs Darkrai but against a bulkier team the lack of a boosting item is definitely noticeable. Sleep is just too powerful and the all the options I've seen/used just didn't seem like it was enough to balance it out. I'm fairly surprised I didn't run into a single Lum Darkrai.

    All that said, this is easily my favorite BW2 test so far and I actually enjoyed the metagame. My only real dislike was that Darkrai v Darkrai ties were too common and annoying but I didn't mind having to play around sleep at all and I liked how it became so prevalent that it discouraged Arceus from using Plates.
  3. Scaevola

    Scaevola

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    I just qualified without using Darkrai/Smeargle/Butterfree etc. I used Sleep Talk scarf Terrakion and Chesto Berry Palkia against sleep spreaders. OHKOing Darkrais with Focus Punch was fun, but if I faced a better player who played Darkrai safer I got hard time to deal with that. In these matches predictions (switch in my Terrakion onto Void or Sub), and luck became crucial (Void misses, Sleep Talk selects Stone Miss, one turn sleep with Terrakion locked on Sleep Talk etc.)

    I faced Meelee Mewtwo's team two times when he switched the Butterfree set to Sleep Powder/QD/Sub/Whirlwind and I simply could not do anything against that.

    I agree with those who said that is not as horrible as Moody was, and indeed there were interesting matches on the ladder, but I am leaning to vote for bringing the Sleep Clause back.
  4. Cherub Agent

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    Oh scaevola you're SubtleSerpent? You had a damn nice team, i'm b00fy :3

    I'm still working my way to reqs, got the glicko no problem but deviation is a drag... I should be able to obtain it over the weekend though. My thoughts on Sleep Clause... I'm not 100% sure on it, as Dark Void misses so damn much, and people are really prepared for it with their Lum Berries and their Sleep Talk mons. However, I really dislike how it has basically killed Stall's viability in the tier (Ubers was extremely balanced where literally any playstyle could be used successfuly, and that is no longer the case).
  5. vyomov

    vyomov

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    Maybe what we could do is ban Dark Void and Spore, meaning Darkrai would have to rely on Hypnosis(which sucks).
  6. Dallasboi1992

    Dallasboi1992

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    Dropping my 2 cents here. After a series of battling & getting close to reqs, I can say that Sleep Clause is something that should be retained. Yeah; Sleep Talk Genesect & Terrakion do great against it, but having your Darkrai counter put to sleep is the worst thing possible for this meta where Darkrai can Sub, Nasty Plot, and sweep entire teams.
  7. Melee Mewtwo

    Melee Mewtwo Is a Fox main.
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    No, that would be a complex ban and the only time that has every happened was for Aldaron's proposal. That was for very specific reasons that separate it from what you are suggesting here. I suggest you google the thread and read that to understand complex bans better.
  8. AJC

    AJC

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    that is not the only complex ban has RU(and thus NU) have the SmashPass ban.

    so far in most of the battles i've been watching no sleep clause heavily stacks the favor in the hands of the sleepers since lum/chesto only works once sleep talk is random and could pick the wrong move and none of the sleep immune ability holders can really go toe to toe with darkrai.
  9. Focus

    Focus I'm waiting you...

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    That would not be a complex ban though. Moves have certainly been banned in the past (Double Team and Minimize, and even Dark Void in VGC). Nothing was said about banning, say, Spore specifically on Smeargle. That would be an example of a complex ban. Banning the prominent Sleep moves themselves would not be.
  10. Alex Walls

    Alex Walls

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    Une Bite.
  11. Darknesscrusher

    Darknesscrusher

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    Yes, we could do this, if we want to have BUTTERFREE in Ubers.
  12. Melee Mewtwo

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    Double Team and Evasion were all banned under sleep clause, there wasn't any discrimination. We wouldn't cherry pick which sleep moves we keep, we would ban them all.

    (and the VGC has nothing to do with Smogon)
  13. Soul Fly

    Soul Fly IMMA TEACH YOU WHAT SPLASHIN' MEANS
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    I'm not laddering for reqs but it's a pretty fun tier right now.

    But, the lack of this clause, picks up pure stall teams... greases their ass.... and aims for penetration.

    Even well made ladder peaking stall teams are failing to perform consistently with the clause inactive.
  14. Nglittleguy

    Nglittleguy

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    deviation is a bitch
  15. Melee Mewtwo

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    http://pokemonshowdown.com/replay/uberssuspecttest-19123777

    Lol, Flutterby beats a Manaphy by tanking its Surfs with QD (as well as a Lum Kyogre Thunder). The only reason it died on turn 46 is that I underestimated the rolls, I could have very well stalled out an extra turn with Powder before phazing out Manaphy.
  16. Hack

    Hack formerly Hack He Must
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    Soulfly: Try Lum Exca and Sleep Talk>Whirlwind on Ho-oh. It might be hard to get it work anyways but yeah.
  17. Soul Fly

    Soul Fly IMMA TEACH YOU WHAT SPLASHIN' MEANS
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    I did Sleep Talk>Whirlwind on Ho-oh, but I haven't tried lum exca yet. I don't know how it is on the higher ladder but down in 1500s people are just slapping on 2-3 sleep abusers in a single team which just overwhelms stall, (despite failing against any well structured balance/offense team)
  18. Cherub Agent

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    Hope you don't mind if I post this here for safekeeping n_n i'm switching computers next week and I want to be absolutely sure that this doesnt get lost

    Reqs (open)
    [​IMG]


    So yeah I'll be voting to keep Sleep Clause a thing. While the matches were far, far more enjoyable than during the Moody stage, and Dark Void misses far too much, I don't like how completely manhandled stall teams are. Ubers was a tier where absolutely anything was viable, and that's no longer the case. Sleep can be dealt with fine with Lum Berries and Sleep Talk, but they still do not help when you switch into Dark Void on the switch and are slower than Darkrai, or if Sleep Talk selects the wrong move, or you Sleep Talk when you wake up. And ResTalk Kyogre can really be taken advantage of too easily.

    So, I'll leave you with my team this round (I basically stole it from Superstarr and made some adjustments which suited me better, so thanks man for the team, it was really useful :P) and will leave you all with my parting comment: use Venomoth. I used it on my first alt for a wee bit before I realized that the team itself sucked, but Venomoth is one of the nastiest and easily most overlooked little buggers this round (I didn't see any apart from mine). Base 90 Speed tier. Wonder Skin to screw over attemtps to status, phaze, Taunt it. STAB Bug Buzz makes mincemeat of Darkrai. And it has bloody fucking Baton Pass as well. And of course Sleep Powder, can't forget that!

    The Team (open)
    Darkrai @ Leftovers
    Trait: Bad Dreams
    EVs: 4 Def / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Timid Nature
    - Dark Void
    - Substitute
    - Dark Pulse
    - Nasty Plot

    Genesect @ Choice Scarf
    Trait: Download
    Shiny: Yes
    EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Naive Nature
    - U-turn
    - Explosion
    - Iron Head
    - Ice Beam

    Ho-Oh @ Leftovers
    Trait: Regenerator
    Shiny: Yes
    EVs: 208 HP / 252 Atk / 48 Spd
    Adamant Nature
    - Brave Bird
    - Sacred Fire
    - Roost
    - Sleep Talk

    Giratina-Origin @ Griseous Orb
    Trait: Levitate
    Shiny: Yes
    EVs: 216 Atk / 252 Def / 40 Spd
    Impish Nature
    - Dragon Tail
    - Outrage
    - Earthquake
    - Shadow Sneak

    Groudon @ Soft Sand
    Trait: Drought
    EVs: 80 HP / 244 Atk / 184 Spd
    Adamant Nature
    - Swords Dance
    - Rock Polish
    - Earthquake
    - Stone Edge

    Arceus-Grass @ Meadow Plate
    Trait: Multitype
    EVs: 252 HP / 240 SDef / 16 Spd
    Calm Nature
    - Recover
    - Judgment
    - Stone Edge
    - Stealth Rock
  19. shrang

    shrang Defend the Headquarters of Revolution
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    Oh God Murkrow is amazing.

    (HeavyDown = Darkrai)
    Murkrow is fast asleep. Murkrow used Sleep Talk! Murkrow used Psycho Shift! The foe's HeavyDown fell asleep! Murkrow woke up!

    YEAH EAT THAT
  20. Kirbyofthestars

    Kirbyofthestars

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    I use a Darkrai that has Thunder (since I'm using a rain team) to (hopefully) avoid such situations. Also, with Sleep Talk, there's a chance that Murkrow may use the "wrong" move.
  21. Nglittleguy

    Nglittleguy

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    voting to ban
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  22. lousy918

    lousy918

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    lol

    I think I'll start laddering on tuesday
  23. moonbase

    moonbase

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    If we take sleep clause away, I will be seriously contemplating on quitting ubers. It is simply rediculous, because you have to have more then one dedicated sleep switch in per team. It affects the team building process a whole hell of a lot, which is different from the past suspect rounds. Overall, sleep is a bitch, and I like where it was before this suspect round with sleep clause.
  24. Melee Mewtwo

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  25. Zowayix

    Zowayix

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    @Melee Mewtwo: Why do you keep calling Butterfree Flutterby? Just wondering.

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