NP: NU Stage 0 (Beta) - Bring The Noize (Cofagrigus is Banned)

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The Goomy

Whitest Mexican Alive
#76
252+ SpA Choice Specs Vikavolt Thunderbolt vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Assault Vest Slowking: 324-384 (82.4 - 97.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Exploud Boomburst vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Assault Vest Slowking: 181-214 (46 - 54.4%) -- 56.3% chance to 2HKO
I appreciate the effort you put into this post, but it's hard to take anything you say without a grain of salt when your only comparison calc is when Vilavolt is dealing SE damage vs Neutral damage for Exploud.

This would be a much more accurate representation:

252+ SpA Choice Specs Vikavolt Thunderbolt vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Mew: 262-310 (76.8 - 90.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ SpA Choice Specs Exploud Boomburst vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Mew: 295-348 (86.5 - 102%) -- 12.5% chance to OHKO

This not only shows that Vikavolt is actually weaker, but doesn't even address the fact that it's STAB move isn't nearly as spammable as there are several common Pokemon that are immune to T-bolt while Scrappy Boomburst has no immunities. In addition, the SR weakness and even worse speed tier prevent Vikavolt from fulfilling the same role as Exploud as a wall breaker.

I still definitely think that Roost + 3 Atk or AV Vika are the best sets, but I will have to test Specs to see how it functions.


Regardless, I think your post was misleading and didn't really show any sort of comparison to Exploud.
 

Brawlfest

I SOUND WEIRD LIKE NIGGA WITH A HARD R
is a Team Rater Alumnus
#77
Since the Exploud ban, I feel strongly about this as a replacement wallbreaker on some teams. While it doesn't have as spammable as a STAB as Exploud does, it has a better defensive typing and ability and still tears holes in balance and at minimum 2hkos most of the tier after stealth rock. Bug buzz/Tbolt/Energy Ball offer excellent neutral coverage among the tier and teams without a bulky ground resist just plain drop to Tbolt. Vikavolt also has the ability unlike Exploud and all the other special attacks in the tier to muscle through AV Slowking.

252+ SpA Choice Specs Vikavolt Thunderbolt vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Assault Vest Slowking: 324-384 (82.4 - 97.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Exploud Boomburst vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Assault Vest Slowking: 181-214 (46 - 54.4%) -- 56.3% chance to 2HKO

More calcs to represent strength even against decent spD mons:
252+ SpA Choice Specs Vikavolt Thunderbolt vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Delphox: 262-310 (89.7 - 106.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
252+ SpA Choice Specs Vikavolt Thunderbolt vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Hitmonlee: 241-285 (100 - 118.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Vikavolt Thunderbolt vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Hitmontop: 241-285 (79.2 - 93.7%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

Bad replay but just for shows: http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7nubeta-593109091


Vikavolt @ Choice Specs
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 192 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpA / 60 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Thunderbolt
- Energy Ball
- Bug Buzz
- Toxic

or in trick room:

Vikavolt @ Choice Specs
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Def / 252 SpA
Quiet Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 0 Spe
- Thunderbolt
- Energy Ball
- Bug Buzz
- Toxic
Beyond what The Goomy mentioned about Vikavolt's actual power...

I mean vikavolt is fine and dandy but not running Volt Switch > Toxic is just bad. One of its best qualities is that its Volt Switch is fairly slow and thus can bring in frailer teammates for free, and without volt switch you really lose out on a lot of potential momentum and give the opponent a lot of free switches into special walls.

Also ngl but unless you're running trick room Max Speed is actually pretty important since jumping shit like 0 spe Toad / Malamar or 252 spe SD Donner is actually really important. Like frankly the bulky investment doesn't pay off that well since Vikavolt doesn't have that great of bulk to start.
 
#78
I appreciate the effort you put into this post, but it's hard to take anything you say without a grain of salt when your only comparison calc is when Vilavolt is dealing SE damage vs Neutral damage for Exploud.

This would be a much more accurate representation:

252+ SpA Choice Specs Vikavolt Thunderbolt vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Mew: 262-310 (76.8 - 90.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ SpA Choice Specs Exploud Boomburst vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Mew: 295-348 (86.5 - 102%) -- 12.5% chance to OHKO

This not only shows that Vikavolt is actually weaker, but doesn't even address the fact that it's STAB move isn't nearly as spammable as there are several common Pokemon that are immune to T-bolt while Scrappy Boomburst has no immunities. In addition, the SR weakness and even worse speed tier prevent Vikavolt from fulfilling the same role as Exploud as a wall breaker.

I still definitely think that Roost + 3 Atk or AV Vika are the best sets, but I will have to test Specs to see how it functions.


Regardless, I think your post was misleading and didn't really show any sort of comparison to Exploud.
Admittedly I'm just new for posting on the forums, however I did address Vvikavolt had less spammable STAB than exploud in the first post and only replaceable on some team builds. While I also think that roost + 3 atks with life orb is nice and most likely its best offensive set, it wears down Vikavolt rather quickly and misses out on essential KO's that choice specs offers. I just wanted to offer an alternative for teams that could afford hazard control and the calcs just demonstrate how much damage it could POTENTIALLY do rather a direct comparison to Exploud.

Example calcs: (wears down Spdef Steelixes harder and more consistently)
252+ SpA Life Orb Vikavolt Energy Ball vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Steelix: 143-169 (40.3 - 47.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252+ SpA Choice Specs Vikavolt Energy Ball vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Steelix: 164-194 (46.3 - 54.8%) -- 30.5% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

(doesn't have to rely on roll)
252+ SpA Life Orb Vikavolt Bug Buzz vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Houndoom: 274-324 (94.1 - 111.3%) -- 62.5% chance to OHKO

252+ SpA Choice Specs Vikavolt Bug Buzz vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Houndoom: 315-372 (108.2 - 127.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO

252+ SpA Life Orb Vikavolt Bug Buzz vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Scrafty: 203-239 (74.9 - 88.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252+ SpA Choice Specs Vikavolt Thunderbolt vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Scrafty: 232-274 (85.6 - 101.1%) -- 50% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

(I would do more calcs but I'm busy at the moment and sorry if it caused any confusion. Exploud is overall better.)
 

Punchshroom

Paralysis is slightly less of a devil
is a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogon
#79
View attachment 83775

Honestly, eelektross imo is a mon that's slept on super hard right now. It's a really solid bulky pivot with a slow U-Turn that can bring in a lot of frailer mons like Accelgor and Sneasel in really safely and because of that fits nicely on the high paced offensive teams that the meta currently leans towards, and is a super useful check to a lot of stuff like Sceptile and Rotom-C that a lot of teams may not have a switchin outright to that can tank a hit and deal a shit-ton back. Plus its a really solid counter to Steelix which is literally on every other team and makes it an automatically solid utility mon.

Eelektross @ Assault Vest
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 248 HP / 8 SDef or Atk / 252 SpA
Modest / Quiet Nature
- Volt Switch
- Flamethrower
- Giga Drain
- Thunderbolt / Knock Off
I wasn't really much of a fan of Eelektross to begin with, but in a meta where Rotom-C and Vikavolt are present, I can't see a whole lot of value Eelektross really has anymore. I never found Eel to have the typing nor the sustain required to do its job as a bulky pivot properly: for instance, STAB Leaf Storm from Scept and MowTom does a large chunk which Eel can't heal off effectively, Eel runs the risk of losing to SD Sceptile on the switch since Flamethrower won't be enough to OHKO Sceptile while +4 Leaf Blade cleaves Eel in two, and Eel even gets tripped up by Trick Rotom-C since being unable to switch moves severely hampers its offensive presence. Compare its pivoting ability to Vikavolt, whose SR weakness is largely made up for with access to Roost, additional useful resistances to Grass and Fighting, and more independent offensive presence (Bug + Electric STAB off a meaty SpA stat even if uninvested, and easily covered with HP Water). Meanwhile, MowTom is a significantly superior offensive alternative due to STAB Leaf Storm alongside Electric STAB giving it more neutral options, and sits in a much better Speed tier that allows it to outrun a vast majority of wallbreakers in the tier, while Eelektross is outsped and crushed / heavily damaged by nearly all of them before it can move, making it lose in 1v1s to more Pokemon than it'd like to admit. I feel that Eel is just the awkward middle-man between Vika and Rotom-C atm (being a middle-man is almost never a good thing in a meta where you want to be specialized, rip Silvally formes), and its kinda deserves to be tossed to the wayside for now.

Now let's talk holepunchers that can help fill in the void left by Exploud:


Vanilluxe @ Never-Melt Ice / Life Orb
Ability: Snow Warning
EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Rash / Mild Nature
- Blizzard
- Freeze-Dry
- Ice Shard
- Taunt / Autotomize / Explosion

With the strongest accurate Blizzard & Freeze-Dry in the tier by a substantial amount, Vanilluxe is extremely capable of functioning on triple mono-STAB alone, meaning it can afford Never-Melt Ice to boost all of its attacks at no cost, though Life Orb can be opted for an even bigger boost, particularly in conjunction with Explosion. Ice Shard is also a godsend with Sceptile currently occupying the most significant Speed tier, and can snipe other such boosted threats such as Minior, Vivillon, and Lilligant. There aren't a lot of Pokemon in the tier that can comfortably stomach two hits from Vanilluxe, and this is not even yet accounting for things like Hail damage (annoys Eviolite, Assault Vest, & Moonlight users) and the possibility of Taunt or even Explosion shutting them down. If you can get Vanilluxe into a position where it can just pick off something with Blizzard, the opponent would likely be taking a lot of damage either way; for this reason, Vanilluxe is a complete monster on Sticky Web teams, and I do recommend Sticky Web Exploud users to consider this as a replacement.


Samurott @ Life Orb
Ability: Torrent
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest / Rash Nature
- Hydro Pump
- Ice Beam
- Grass Knot
- Taunt / Megahorn

While its Swords Dance set is more popular in the present meta, specially offensive Samurott still packs a significant wallop and has good wallbreaking potential. Water/Ice/Grass coverage is always notable, and access to Taunt allows it to stallbreak, most notably cornering Vaporeon or at least preventing Wish recovery, an advantage it has over Clawitzer. While Clawitzer and even Ludicolo are alternative Water-types that can break those Steelix + bulky Water cores so commonly seen in this meta, they don't have the option of bluffing physical sets like Samurott can, which can potentially open up breaking opportunities the other Water-types would not have, such as the opponent switching to Weezing / Gourgeist instead of Slowking for fear of Swords Dance. Speaking of bluffing, Megahorn can be considered over Taunt if the Vaporeon matchup is not as crucial (though it does weaken Samurott's niche over Clawitzer) to be able to surprise the likes of AV Slowking, Ludicolo, and Abomasnow who think they can take Samurott's hits all day or skewer overconfident Calm Mind Meloettas, or mess with the opponent by making them second-guess the Samurott variant.
 
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rozes

Tournament Banned
is a Tutor Alumnusis a Smogon Social Media Contributor Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus
#80
sorry for a lack of posts from my end and a few members of council, ive just finished my first year at college and will be more active from now. i want to discuss the last slate as well as well as what i think of the meta and what i think of the future of beta.

previous slate
one thing ive seen a few people bring up on discord / in the ps room was the slate from the last round of voting and why it was so large. the main reason for this was because this was used to also gauge council members opinions on the meta along with voting. the way the slate is decided for those of you who dont know is that council members pm a list of nominations to kiyo & me with what pokemon they want to be voted on. this can range from no nominations to as many as the council members sees fit. what is on the slate doesnt necessarily have to be deemed broken or quickban worthy, but it can be seen as something that the council is keeping an eye on for when we exit beta as well as what people think of it in its current state.

i also want to bring up the fact that some people disagree with how the results from the last slate went down and i want to explain a bit more behind the reasoning for a few things, at least from my side. one thing to keep in mind is that the fact that something was not banned doesnt mean it will never be suspected or retested once we exit beta. our system right now is to remove what we see as the most broken parts of the metagame in order to create a playable meta in a short period of time. while some pokemon may dominate or be very good in this period, its largely up to council members to what they deem as quickban worthy. personally i look for factors such as how easily it is to deal with over a variety of playstyles, how splashable and common it is in the metagame, as well as other factors that depend on the state of the meta and the mon in question. i also try to follow a more conservative method even when doing a system like the kokoloko method, as removing a large portion of the metagame, even temporary, is not healthy for the tier in the long term. hopefully this has given you guys a bit more insight into where i am when i approach slates for bans as well as a little reasoning as to how things turned out the way they did.

future slates
one thing i am very curious about is how people have been adapting to the new metagame and what people think of it. with the previous round of voting only one pokemon was removed from the meta and i currently feel the meta is pretty stable. i am curious to see what people outside the council feel about the meta as well as what they would personally nominate / vote to ban in the current meta. at the moment all i could really see myself voting on would be tyrantrum, but even on that i keep going back and forth on the more games i play. this obviously isnt set in stone at all so im genuinely asking for more opinions on the current meta and what you guys would like to see on future slates with regards to the metagame.

also as we are done with the halfway point of beta, im curious to see what you guys would feel like would warrant a retest first in the meta based on personal experience as well as how it would fit into the metagame with a lot of other pokemon around it no longer around. personally the first mon i would like to be tested again would be ribombee as i still feel it could be managed with less threats to prepare for in the metagame. obviously this is still a few weeks away, but it doesnt hurt if we begin to discuss things like this now imo.

i also want to push for more openness and transparency between the council and the public as this is something i am very big on personally, and hopefully this will be worked on more and more especially with things like the rotating council once we leave beta.
 

Jarii

formerly boring
#81
I'm gonna give my 2 cents about how I see the meta right now, in my oppinion this meta is pretty stable now Exploud left. Exploud made things like Trick Room way too overpowered and you were forced to run at least one mon that is able to ohko it and one that is able to take one hit which limited teambuilding alot (besides HO). I personally think one mon that came in the tier which fixed quite amount of issues, at least for me it did.

Jellicent @ Leftovers / Colbur Berry
Ability: Water Absorb
EVs: 248 HP / 216 Def / 44 Spe
Bold Nature
- Taunt
- Will-O-Wisp
- Recover
- Scald / Hex

Jellicent is such an easy glue on both BO and balance and maybe even on stall but haven't tried it on stall yet, what makes Jellicent such an easy glue is it's amazing defensive typing which makes your team right of the bat less weak to fire- water- normal- and fighting types. What also makes Jellicent so good in my oppinion is that it fits as a perfect stallbreaker abilities with the move "Taunt" makes it almost unbreakable for stall (keep in mind I said "almost"), of course you can change the spread on this Jellicent and make it faster to ensure outspeeding other Jellicents or Hitmontops but thats totally up to you.


Virizion @ Lum Berry
Ability: Justified
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Swords Dance
- Leaf Blade
- Close Combat
- Stone Edge / Zen Headbutt

Most people will think when I post this "Jarii that isn't original at all, everyone knows that set you silly goose." and I will say yes I know. This set is known since it came out back in BW, despite of that I haven't seen it used alot yet. Everyone uses Z-crystal on their Virizion and don't get me wrong I don't say Z-Crystals on this mon are bad, I just try to show people there are other ways to use this mon. Most mons with Wisp tend to Wisp Virizion nowdays because everyone thinks it's Z-move that is where this set shines the most. Although Z-moves make some 2 hit KO's a OHKO, but if you have already a Z-mon on the team this would be a great alternative.

Then as last a core that is one of my personal favorites: Machamp and Alolan-Persian.
+

Persian-Alola @ Darkinium Z
Ability: Fur Coat
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Foul Play
- Taunt
- Parting Shot
- Toxic

Machamp @ Flame Orb
Ability: Guts
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Close Combat
- Knock Off
- Facade
- Bullet Punch


This core is so fun to use, Machamp is one of the best wallbreakers in the tier with it's incredible Atk stat and combined with the Burn nerf and guts are there only a few mons that can come in safely on this monster. The flaw that Machamp has is that it's fairly slow and most of the time has to take a hit before it can do some massive damage, there is where Persian-Alola comes into play. With fast Parting Shot and ability to threaten both psychic- and Ghost types decently well is it the perfect partner for Machamp, with fast Parting Shot you lower the opponant his atk and spA by 1 which makes Machamp come out easier and deal some massive damage to the opponants team. Before we get people saying "Silvally (insert type here) does this job better for Machamp since it is more bulkier and slow Parting shot it doesn't need to take a one or two hits before coming in!", this might be true but Persian-Alola has one of thing over Silvally 'Darknium Z Parting Shot.'
This makes this duo so good, when Machamp is low it most of the time just sack material since it can't come in anymore and most things outspeed it and kill it before it can do anything anymore. With Z-Parting Shot you are able to bring Machamp back up to 100% and do like the whole process with this core again but instead of doing this once you can use Machamp twice! Last thing to note Darknium Z Foul Play does more damage then you expect it to do so you have a little nuke there as well if it's needed.

For the rest big applause to the TL's and council members that made this tier in a decently fast pace a pretty stable tier, what from the beginning looked like a hell of broken monsters together begins now to look like an actual tier. I also feel thankful that I have been chosen as a manager for NUPL, I hope to not dissapoint this oppinion that has given to me.
 
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SANJAY

it's a vibe, feeling right
is a Tiering Contributor
#82
Still relatively new to the meta, but I've had a decent amount of fun with Mawile.



Mawile @ Life Orb
Ability: Sheer Force
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Naughty Nature
- Play Rough
- Iron Head
- Fire Blast / Grass Knot
- Sucker Punch

I've got two Mawile sets to present, firstly an offensive Mawile set featuring LO + Sheer Force with a naughty nature (Considering its Special Defense is already pitiful), with Fire Blast / Grass Knot to lure in things such as Steelix, Rhydon, Quagsire, Seismitoad, etc; 2 STABs which are pretty self-explanatory and Sucker Punch to pick off faster, weakened threats. This thing checks so much stuff in the current meta it's unbelievable, especially Dark / Fighting types which are pretty damn good right now (Things such as Sneasel, Hitmonchan, Skuntank, Shiftry, Liepard, , Absol, etc). Unfortunately, it struggles to switch into majority of threats thus has to rely on free switches and then scare them out. Nevertheless, Mawile is still threatening due to the amount of switches it can force out (If given a free switch) and its STAB Combo coupled with LO + Sheer Force is deadly.

Mawile @ Leftovers
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Def
Impish Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Play Rough
- Super Fang
- Knock Off / Pain Split

On the other hand, this thing does a much, much better job at countering Dark / Fighting types. Intimidate and Max Defense / HP + An Impish Nature easily allow it to absorb hits. Super Fang + Intimidate gives Mawile its niche over Pokemon such as Steelix as it has a better way to hit fairy-resists. Knock Off cripples switch-ins and SR is self-explanatory. Though this can't force switches, it's still great at countering Dark / Fighting Types (Notably: Toxicroak, Hitmonchan, Sneasel, Drapion and Absol) due to its typing.

-1 252 Atk Life Orb Toxicroak Drain Punch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Mawile: 75-90 (24.6 - 29.6%) -- 5.5% chance to 4HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

-1 252 Atk Life Orb Sneasel Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Mawile: 44-53 (14.4 - 17.4%) -- possible 8HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

-1 252 Atk Absol Superpower vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Mawile: 70-83 (23 - 27.3%) -- possible 5HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

-1 252+ Atk Life Orb Iron Fist Hitmonchan Drain Punch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Mawile: 97-114 (31.9 - 37.5%) -- 22.1% chance to 3HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

-1 252+ Atk Drapion Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Mawile: 102-120 (33.5 - 39.4%) -- 77.9% chance to 3HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery


Sucks against specially offensive Pokemon tho
 
#83
Liking this meta much more since Exploud's gone. Anyway, here's a sample team I made. 25 matches, only 2 losses, 81.9% GXE and 1789 Glicko.



Qwilfish @ Focus Sash
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Spikes
- Taunt
- Explosion
- Toxic Spikes

Spiritomb @ Leftovers
Ability: Infiltrator
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Calm Mind
- Dark Pulse
- Rest
- Sleep Talk

Cryogonal @ Icicle Plate
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Ice Beam
- Freeze-Dry
- Rapid Spin
- Hidden Power [Ground]

Exeggutor-Alola @ Dragonium Z
Ability: Frisk
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpA
Quiet Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 0 Spe
- Trick Room
- Draco Meteor
- Giga Drain
- Flamethrower

Braviary @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Defiant
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Brave Bird
- Return
- U-turn
- Superpower

Rhydon @ Eviolite
Ability: Lightning Rod
EVs: 252 HP / 16 Atk / 240 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Rock Blast
- Earthquake
- Megahorn


Basically it's a spike stacking offensive team. Qwilfish has 3 main advantages over Accelgor - bulk, Toxic Spikes and Taunt. It very rarely gets the chance to set up both hazards, but having both lets me be more flexible. Taunt shuts down other hazard setters; Explosion lets me literally go out with a bang and prevent Rapid Spin / Defog. Spiritomb's job is to block Rapid Spin. I went with CroTomb as that lets me set up on Toxic Cryogonal and it also serves as a nice late game sweeper. Braviary serves 2 functions - a revenge killer, and Defog deterrent. I used an Adamant nature instead of a Jolly one, as it still can't outrun Accelgor with Jolly (loses by 1 point) and it's slower than most Scarf users anyway. It still outruns Sceptile with an Adamant nature. Brave Bird is the strong STAB, Return is the reliable one, Superpower hits Rock and Steel types, U-turn lets me grab momentum. Exeggutor is my late game sweeper, and is surprisingly effective. Trick Room lets it "outrun" everything bar Ferroseed and Shuckle. Draco Meteor is the main STAB, combined with Dragonium Z it turns into an insanely strong 195 BP Devastating Drake. Giga Drain is the back up STAB, and also lets Exeggutor stay healthy. Flamethrower hits the Steel-types that resist the STABs for Super effective damage. Cryogonal is my own Rapid Spinner, and is the best in NU right now. Ice Beam is the most powerful STAB; Freeze-Dry lets it hit Water-types hard. Hidden Power Ground hits the Fire and Steel-types that resist its STABs, but I rarely use it so you could drop it for Recover if you wish. Lastly, I needed a sturdy Fire resistance, and Rhydon provides that and then some. It can also be a back up hazard setter if Qwilfish only gets one layer down. EVs make the most of its Special bulk while hitting a jump point in Attack - its physical defence is high enough as is.
 
#84
im going to talk about cofagrigus because i think it's one of the best pokemon in the tier, but it's significantly lacking in usage (outside of me using it)


Cofagrigus @ Ghostium Z
Ability: Mummy
EVs: 248 HP / 252 SpA / 8 SpD
Quiet Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 0 Spe
- Shadow Ball
- Nasty Plot
- Hidden Power [Fighting]
- Trick Room

only cofagrigus set that should be used, if you want a ghost-type wall, just use jellicent. ithis set is also perfectly fine to use this outside of full tr teams (i'm utilizing it on an offensive team currently, it's probably a good option on some balanced hazard stacking teams as well).

cofagrigus may very well be the best sweeper in the tier, the departure of porygon2 and exploud benefit it greatly (they were two of the three normal-types that could check/counter cofagrigus, the other being meloetta) and it can poke holes against offensive teams early to mid game as well. if cofagrigus can't reliabily setup, it can still use z shadow ball as a one-time nuke to benefit its teammates as well. while it needs two turns to properly setup, its substantial natural bulk gives it solid opportunities to setup, since nothing outside of strong special dark and ghost-types are capable of ohkoing it. cofagrigus is also an excellent spin blocker given its natural bulk as well, with offensive cryogonal realistically being the only spinner that can reliably pressure cofagrigus and ultimately getting off a spin as it nearly always 2hko's cofagrigus after rocks (hitmonlee isn't as reliable since it needs to accurately predict a cofagrigus switch-in, and hitmonlee that doesn't knock off a cofagrigus switch-in becomes setup fodder). mummy is also a nice utility for cofagrigus in a pinch, as it can nullify abilities such as tyrantrum's rock head, machamp's guts, medicham's pure power, emboar's reckless, etc.

i'd like to discuss cofagrigus' sweeping abilities in more detail, because it is its best asset. as i've mentioned, cofagrigus does need two turns to setup, but there are a good number of pokemon it can setup on, such as a number of hazard setters (uxie and garbodor are both wonderful setup fodder for cofagrigus, but a number of hazard setters are incapable of 2hkoing cofagrigus anyways). cofagrigus may fear toxic from some of these hazard setters, particularly steelix and seismitoad, but cofagrigus is still capable of koing 2-3 pokemon even with hazard damage taken into account. even if they have knock off, cofagrigus is capable of setting up on a number of fighting-types as well, scrafty realistically being the only fighting type that can reliably handle cofagrigus 1v1. other potential setup fodder include some choice-locked pokemon (cofagrigus coming in after another team member has dropped), xatu, bulky pokemon without super effective coverage (slowbro, slowking, golbat, aromatisse, etc). in practice i generally find solid setup opportunities for cofagrigus in a good number of my battles. at +2 under trick room, virtually nothing can "outspeed" cofagrigus, and most of the tier is ohko'd, especially with a z-move to utilize. while some pokemon which are ohko'd by z ghost, but not ohko'd by shadow ball and hp fighting can switch around cofagrigus, cofagrigus is still nearly guaranteed to get a kill against teams without any normal-types alive, if opponents opt to try and switch around cofagrigus. meloetta, guzzlord, and assault vest incineroar are realistically the only pokemon that can successfully handle cofagrigus.

this is probably a really long post for just one pokemon, but i really want to convey how good and criminally underused cofagrigus has been in the tier thus far.
 
#85
upload_2017-6-23_0-53-49.png

Mentioning this mon because no one uses it and it is actually pretty good. While Garbodor is the main spike user in the tier, cacturne is still a good option thanks to its stellar offensive stats, and its movepool has just what it needs to be effective. While its speed hurts, it outspeeds what it needs to on the slower spectrum and it can oftentimes ohko offensive pokemon considering it has the strongest priority move in the tier (if it isn't the strongest i'm amazed). So basically this pokemon is an offensive spiker that has a strong matchup versus both offense and balance.

However, this isn't where it ends. The best part about Cacturne is that it can run a variety of offensive sets and still be effective. I've used both a pure physical attacking set and a mixed attacking set with spikes and they both work. You can also run destiny bond, superpower, swords dance, nasty plot, etc. so you leave your opponent guessing on the set until you reveal it and its too late. My only complaint is how difficult it is to get it in the battle safely, but its doable with strong plays.

p.s. i'm gonna try choice items cacturne soon bc switcheroo is a thing but not expecting it to be good.

Here are some sets for it
Cacturne @ Life Orb
Ability: Water Absorb
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Mild Nature
- Sucker Punch
- Giga Drain
- Dark Pulse
- Spikes

Cacturne (M) @ Life Orb
Ability: Water Absorb
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Sucker Punch
- Seed Bomb
- Spikes
- Destiny Bond


upload_2017-6-23_0-36-17.png

Abomasnow (M) @ Choice Specs
Ability: Snow Warning
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Blizzard
- Energy Ball
- Focus Blast
- Hidden Power [Rock]

So no one uses abomasnow either and i mean i get why, its typing is terrible and it makes it hard to fit on standard NU teams, however something I realized is that hardly anything can eat Abomasnow's STAB attacks. Like, the only things i've seen actually take hits from this set are assault vest pokemon, and those are really easy to wear down. With the correct plays and team support, Abomasnow can break through defensive cores for its allies to finish the game, thanks to its dual STAB, hail chip damage, and just enough special attack. I've not used the last two moves once but focus blast is there if i ever run into a steel type that isn't steelix. Replays coming soon to prove this fun mon's value, but for now here are some calcs.

252+ SpA Choice Specs Abomasnow Blizzard vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Necrozma: 258-304 (64.8 - 76.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after hail damage and Leftovers recovery

252+ SpA Choice Specs Abomasnow Blizzard vs. 244 HP / 0 SpD Steelix: 331-391 (94 - 111%) -- 62.5% chance to OHKO--turn one kill every steelix whose trainer decided to use stealth rock anyways

252+ SpA Choice Specs Abomasnow Blizzard vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Seismitoad: 295-348 (71.2 - 84%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock, hail damage, and Leftovers recovery--protip: use blizzard on seismitoads bc they never stay in

252+ SpA Choice Specs Abomasnow Blizzard vs. 208 HP / 0 SpD Assault Vest Hitmonchan: 144-171 (49.1 - 58.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after hail damage

252+ SpA Choice Specs Abomasnow Blizzard vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Shuckle: 111-132 (45.4 - 54%) -- 94.1% chance to 2HKO after hail damage--, hey, specially defensive shuckle can take two hits!

252+ SpA Choice Specs Abomasnow Focus Blast vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Cryogonal: 198-234 (54.3 - 64.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery-- no one runs full spdef but if they did you would still 2hko :)


Here are some replays with Abomasnow, kinda showcases why specs is my strong preference over life orb

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7nubeta-594621779

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7nubeta-594630155
 
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#86
View attachment 83892
Mentioning this mon because no one uses it and it is actually pretty good. While Garbodor is the main spike user in the tier, cacturne is still a good option thanks to its stellar offensive stats, and its movepool has just what it needs to be effective. While its speed hurts, it outspeeds what it needs to on the slower spectrum and it can oftentimes ohko offensive pokemon considering it has the strongest priority move in the tier (if it isn't the strongest i'm amazed). So basically this pokemon is an offensive spiker that has a strong matchup versus both offense and balance.

However, this isn't where it ends. The best part about Cacturne is that it can run a variety of offensive sets and still be effective. I've used both a pure physical attacking set and a mixed attacking set with spikes and they both work. You can also run destiny bond, superpower, swords dance, nasty plot, etc. so you leave your opponent guessing on the set until you reveal it and its too late. My only complaint is how difficult it is to get it in the battle safely, but its doable with strong plays.

p.s. i'm gonna try choice items cacturne soon bc switcheroo is a thing but not expecting it to be good.

Here are some sets for it
Cacturne @ Life Orb
Ability: Water Absorb
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Mild Nature
- Sucker Punch
- Giga Drain
- Dark Pulse
- Spikes

Cacturne (M) @ Life Orb
Ability: Water Absorb
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Sucker Punch
- Seed Bomb
- Spikes
- Destiny Bond


View attachment 83891
Abomasnow (M) @ Choice Specs
Ability: Snow Warning
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Blizzard
- Energy Ball
- Focus Blast
- Hidden Power [Rock]

So no one uses abomasnow either and i mean i get why, its typing is terrible and it makes it hard to fit on standard NU teams, however something I realized is that hardly anything can eat Abomasnow's STAB attacks. Like, the only things i've seen actually take hits from this set are assault vest pokemon, and those are really easy to wear down. With the correct plays and team support, Abomasnow can break through defensive cores for its allies to finish the game, thanks to its dual STAB, hail chip damage, and just enough special attack. I've not used the last two moves once but focus blast is there if i ever run into a steel type that isn't steelix. Replays coming soon to prove this fun mon's value, but for now here are some calcs.

252+ SpA Choice Specs Abomasnow Blizzard vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Necrozma: 258-304 (64.8 - 76.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after hail damage and Leftovers recovery

252+ SpA Choice Specs Abomasnow Blizzard vs. 244 HP / 0 SpD Steelix: 331-391 (94 - 111%) -- 62.5% chance to OHKO--turn one kill every steelix whose trainer decided to use stealth rock anyways

252+ SpA Choice Specs Abomasnow Blizzard vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Seismitoad: 295-348 (71.2 - 84%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock, hail damage, and Leftovers recovery--protip: use blizzard on seismitoads bc they never stay in

252+ SpA Choice Specs Abomasnow Blizzard vs. 208 HP / 0 SpD Assault Vest Hitmonchan: 144-171 (49.1 - 58.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after hail damage

252+ SpA Choice Specs Abomasnow Blizzard vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Shuckle: 111-132 (45.4 - 54%) -- 94.1% chance to 2HKO after hail damage--, hey, specially defensive shuckle can take two hits!

252+ SpA Choice Specs Abomasnow Focus Blast vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Cryogonal: 198-234 (54.3 - 64.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery-- no one runs full spdef but if they did you would still 2hko :)


Tl,dr; Cacturne and Abomasnow are sinfully ignored and people should try them because they work on the right teams
Cacturne still faces the same problems it had in ORAS being that it had poor match up against a lot of things and in most situations, 90% of the tier are able to beat Cacturne 1 v 1 regardless of typing match ups since it's pretty slow and frail with numerous weaknesses. It also doesn't help that Sucker Punch had a slight nerf making things even worse. I think the second set you posted seems pretty mediocre since Sucker Punch is your only dark stab, making for an easy switch and NU is riddled with 100's of grass resists for Seed Bomb. I guess Destiny Bond could drag something else down, but I don't think Cacturne has enough merits to justify using it on a team.

I still think Abomasnow would want to use life orb as it would prefer to switch between moves which would make it easier for breaking down defensive cores. Ice Shard utility is too good to miss out on and Earthquake OHKO's practically every fire type after stealth rocks without having to worry about Focus Blast accuracy or HP rock since it's not strong enough.

---

Anyway in my last post, I talked about Necrozma and how I wanted it banned but now I want to talk about angry dino too, pushing for a ban of both of them still.

I think it's too overwhelming and there's practically no reliable defensive answers to Tyrantrum, Head Smash obliterates everything that doesn't resist rock while it's high powered coverage moves handles almost everything else. It's typing gives it some decent utility defensively thanks to Electric, Flying, Normal and Poison resistances however that x4 resistance to fire really helps as you can easily take advantage of choice locked mons such as Emboar, Delphox, Typhlosion and others setting up a Dragon Dance or just going for an attack. 82 / 119 defense gives it huge physical bulk for an offensive Pokemon which eases up for other set up opportunities or potential switch ins.

Personally I think Dragon Dance 3 attacks is the best set. With a jolly nature and one boost, it's able to outspeed the unboosted tier except for Accelgor (Electrode and Ninjask aren't too relevant) at that stage, if Steelix tried to switch in, it fails to be a reliable answer as it fails to OHKO and may get 2HKO'd itself with 2 boosted Earthquakes. I've even seen lot of people on the ladder or in room tournaments use Groundium Z and with just a little chip damage, it can OHKO. If Steelix or any rock resist aren't your biggest problem, Dragonium Z is also a good idea not locking you into Outrage and hitting extremely hard. Tagging PursuitOfHappiny because I know he's had a lot of success with Dragonium Z set. Rhydon is probably a slightly better response but keeping it healthy throughout the match can be a little difficult since it has no recovery and it hates taking damage from repeated Earthquakes.

136+ Atk Steelix Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Tyrantrum: 206-246 (67.5 - 80.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

+1 252 Atk Tyrantrum Earthquake vs. 244 HP / 0 Def Steelix: 170-200 (48.2 - 56.8%) -- 41% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
+1 252 Atk Tyrantrum Tectonic Rage (180 BP) vs. 244 HP / 0 Def Steelix: 304-358 (86.3 - 101.7%) -- 12.5% chance to OHKO

Choice Scarf on the other hand makes for a great revenge killer while still being able to threaten defensive and balanced teams and Choice Band hits extremely hard right off the bat.

tl dr; too strong, ban necro & ttrum. :heart:
 
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#87
Cacturne still faces the same problems it had in ORAS being that it had poor match up against a lot of things and in most situations, 90% of the tier are able to beat Cacturne 1 v 1 regardless of typing match ups since it's pretty slow and frail with numerous weaknesses. It also doesn't help that Sucker Punch had a slight nerf making things even worse. I think the second set you posted seems pretty mediocre since Sucker Punch is your only dark stab, making for an easy switch and NU is riddled with 100's of grass resists for Seed Bomb. I guess Destiny Bond could drag something else down, but I don't think Cacturne has enough merits to justify using it on a team.

I still think Abomasnow would want to use life orb as it would prefer to switch between moves which would make it easier for breaking down defensive cores. Ice Shard utility is too good to miss out on and Earthquake OHKO's practically every fire type after stealth rocks without having to worry about Focus Blast accuracy or HP rock since it's not strong enough.

---

Anyway in my last post, I talked about Necrozma and how I wanted it banned but now I want to talk about angry dino too, pushing for a ban of both of them still.

I think it's too overwhelming and there's practically no reliable defensive answers to Tyrantrum, Head Smash obliterates everything that doesn't resist rock while it's high powered coverage moves handles almost everything else. It's typing gives it some decent utility defensively thanks to Electric, Flying, Normal and Poison resistances however that x4 resistance to fire really helps as you can easily take advantage of choice locked mons such as Emboar, Delphox, Typhlosion and others setting up a Dragon Dance or just going for an attack. 82 / 119 defense gives it huge physical bulk for an offensive Pokemon which eases up for other set up opportunities or potential switch ins.

Personally I think Dragon Dance 3 attacks is the best set. With a jolly nature and one boost, it's able to outspeed the unboosted tier except for Accelgor (Electrode and Ninjask aren't too relevant) at that stage, if Steelix tried to switch in, it fails to be a reliable answer as it fails to OHKO and may get 2HKO'd itself with 2 boosted Earthquakes. I've even seen lot of people on the ladder or in room tournaments use Groundium Z and with just a little chip damage, it can OHKO. If Steelix or any rock resist aren't your biggest problem, Dragonium Z is also a good idea not locking you into Outrage and hitting extremely hard. Tagging PursuitOfHappiny because I know he's had a lot of success with Dragonium Z set. Rhydon is probably a slightly better response but keeping it healthy throughout the match can be a little difficult since it has no recovery and it hates taking damage from repeated Earthquakes.

136+ Atk Steelix Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Tyrantrum: 206-246 (67.5 - 80.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

+1 252 Atk Tyrantrum Earthquake vs. 244 HP / 0 Def Steelix: 170-200 (48.2 - 56.8%) -- 41% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
+1 252 Atk Tyrantrum Tectonic Rage (180 BP) vs. 244 HP / 0 Def Steelix: 304-358 (86.3 - 101.7%) -- 12.5% chance to OHKO

Choice Scarf on the other hand makes for a great revenge killer while still being able to threaten defensive and balanced teams and Choice Band hits extremely hard right off the bat.

tl dr; too strong, ban necro & ttrum. :heart:
Another scary thing about tyrantrum is that if it has dragon danced, it's much harder to revenge kill by priority. In fact, a sneasel with a choice band that uses ice shard has only about a 1/3 chance of 2HKO! 252 Atk Choice Band Sneasel Ice Shard vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Tyrantrum: 138-164 (45.2 - 53.7%) -- 37.5% chance to 2HKO!
Hitmonlee's mach punch isn't too promising either: 252 Atk Life Orb Hitmonlee Mach Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Tyrantrum: 140-166 (45.9 - 54.4%) -- 49.6% chance to 2HKO

However, there are some options such as choice scarf medicham that can revenge it at +1 but can never switch in.
 
#88
Cacturne still faces the same problems it had in ORAS being that it had poor match up against a lot of things and in most situations, 90% of the tier are able to beat Cacturne 1 v 1 regardless of typing match ups since it's pretty slow and frail with numerous weaknesses. It also doesn't help that Sucker Punch had a slight nerf making things even worse. I think the second set you posted seems pretty mediocre since Sucker Punch is your only dark stab, making for an easy switch and NU is riddled with 100's of grass resists for Seed Bomb. I guess Destiny Bond could drag something else down, but I don't think Cacturne has enough merits to justify using it on a team.

I still think Abomasnow would want to use life orb as it would prefer to switch between moves which would make it easier for breaking down defensive cores. Ice Shard utility is too good to miss out on and Earthquake OHKO's practically every fire type after stealth rocks without having to worry about Focus Blast accuracy or HP rock since it's not strong enough.

---

Anyway in my last post, I talked about Necrozma and how I wanted it banned but now I want to talk about angry dino too, pushing for a ban of both of them still.

I think it's too overwhelming and there's practically no reliable defensive answers to Tyrantrum, Head Smash obliterates everything that doesn't resist rock while it's high powered coverage moves handles almost everything else. It's typing gives it some decent utility defensively thanks to Electric, Flying, Normal and Poison resistances however that x4 resistance to fire really helps as you can easily take advantage of choice locked mons such as Emboar, Delphox, Typhlosion and others setting up a Dragon Dance or just going for an attack. 82 / 119 defense gives it huge physical bulk for an offensive Pokemon which eases up for other set up opportunities or potential switch ins.

Personally I think Dragon Dance 3 attacks is the best set. With a jolly nature and one boost, it's able to outspeed the unboosted tier except for Accelgor (Electrode and Ninjask aren't too relevant) at that stage, if Steelix tried to switch in, it fails to be a reliable answer as it fails to OHKO and may get 2HKO'd itself with 2 boosted Earthquakes. I've even seen lot of people on the ladder or in room tournaments use Groundium Z and with just a little chip damage, it can OHKO. If Steelix or any rock resist aren't your biggest problem, Dragonium Z is also a good idea not locking you into Outrage and hitting extremely hard. Tagging PursuitOfHappiny because I know he's had a lot of success with Dragonium Z set. Rhydon is probably a slightly better response but keeping it healthy throughout the match can be a little difficult since it has no recovery and it hates taking damage from repeated Earthquakes.

136+ Atk Steelix Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Tyrantrum: 206-246 (67.5 - 80.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

+1 252 Atk Tyrantrum Earthquake vs. 244 HP / 0 Def Steelix: 170-200 (48.2 - 56.8%) -- 41% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
+1 252 Atk Tyrantrum Tectonic Rage (180 BP) vs. 244 HP / 0 Def Steelix: 304-358 (86.3 - 101.7%) -- 12.5% chance to OHKO

Choice Scarf on the other hand makes for a great revenge killer while still being able to threaten defensive and balanced teams and Choice Band hits extremely hard right off the bat.

tl dr; too strong, ban necro & ttrum. :heart:
This is a steelix set i tried, meant to help vs virizion but makes short work of tyrantrum too if it's healthy enough to live a hit:

Steelix @ Leftovers
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 252 HP / 136 Atk / 120 SpD
Brave Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Gyro Ball
- Earthquake
- Roar
- Stealth Rock

Since virizion can set up on regular lix and bulkier teams have limited answers for it, i figured this is could work nicely as a lure. It has produced some other fun results. Ohkoes +1 speed tyrantrum and does a lot to virizion while keeping a similar damage output on the rest of the frail attackers it checks (sneasel, whimsicott). You lose out on hitting aroma and lose speed ties vs other steelix, but thats nothing rly that cant be covered by the rest of the team. Roar is here to phaze sub bulk up braviary

136+ Atk Steelix Gyro Ball (150 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Tyrantrum: 312-368 (102.2 - 120.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO <- scarf
136+ Atk Steelix Gyro Ball (149 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Virizion: 235-277 (72.7 - 85.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
 
#89

Probably my favourite pokemon to use rn, AV Incineroar typing and bulk together are pretty impressive and its surprizing how many threats it can check in meta. At first its similar to gen 6 magmortar, being a bulky fire tank with nice offensive presence, but i believe its better than mag because of few reasons. Dark typing lets it check ghost and psychic types which mag couldnt do very effectively, it also gets priority and u-turn as momentum. It fits mostly on balance to bulky offense as a glue to team that need check to stuff like delphox,sigilyph,cofagrigus/missy,vanilluxe and grass types, can be a soft check to sneasel but losing its item is a bit annoying.
  • First set fits for more bulkier teams that need a sturdier check to pokemon listed above, they usually prefer priority and momentum to bring other wallbreakers in.
Incineroar (M) @ Assault Vest
Ability: Blaze
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 8 Spe
Adamant Nature
- U-turn
- Fake Out
- Flare Blitz
- Darkest Lariat


  • Second set seems to fit more for a bulky offense type of teams, maybe even spike stack, or more offensive type of balance. Flame charge gives the team a win condition, outspeeds most of pokemon in Nu after a boost while still soft checking these threats because of high HP.
Incineroar (M) @ Assault Vest
Ability: Blaze
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Flame Charge
- Flare Blitz
- Earthquake
- Darkest Lariat
 
#90

Probably my favourite pokemon to use rn, AV Incineroar typing and bulk together are pretty impressive and its surprizing how many threats it can check in meta. At first its similar to gen 6 magmortar, being a bulky fire tank with nice offensive presence, but i believe its better than mag because of few reasons. Dark typing lets it check ghost and psychic types which mag couldnt do very effectively, it also gets priority and u-turn as momentum. It fits mostly on balance to bulky offense as a glue to team that need check to stuff like delphox,sigilyph,cofagrigus/missy,vanilluxe and grass types, can be a soft check to sneasel but losing its item is a bit annoying.
  • First set fits for more bulkier teams that need a sturdier check to pokemon listed above, they usually prefer priority and momentum to bring other wallbreakers in.
Incineroar (M) @ Assault Vest
Ability: Blaze
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 8 Spe
Adamant Nature
- U-turn
- Fake Out
- Flare Blitz
- Darkest Lariat


  • Second set seems to fit more for a bulky offense type of teams, maybe even spike stack, or more offensive type of balance. Flame charge gives the team a win condition, outspeeds most of pokemon in Nu after a boost while still soft checking these threats because of high HP.
Incineroar (M) @ Assault Vest
Ability: Blaze
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Flame Charge
- Flare Blitz
- Earthquake
- Darkest Lariat
I have used this mon with the standard stallbreaker Jellicent and have gotten great results. I run colbur berry on Jellicent. That way, Jellicent can become a better to check fighting types, in addition to checking water types, rock, and ground types that are all strong against Incineroar. Furthermore, Jellicent can stop common entry hazard users, such as steelix, that may try to wear down incineroar. Plus, Jellicent and Incineroar have good synergy together. Jellicent really helps this tier a lot!
 
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#91
Worst design (Dartrix) @ Eviolite
Ability: Overgrow
EVs: 252 HP / 76 SpD / 180 Spe
Gentle Nature
- Brave Bird
- Grass Knot
- Defog
- Roost

Hi I'm insane and became a fan of innovation freesteakburgers

Hazard control is pretty much more of a hassle to do than it was due to the relatively few number of viable Defoggers (and their ever-sour matchups against most Rockers) and Spinblocking is easier due to the more bulky ghost types that dropped down here (athough that doesnt meant they're rendered ineffective).


So i wanted to try this thing and it doesn't seem so bad at all. With its Grass/Flying typing, it has a better matchup against the likes of the most common Rockers like Steelix,Rhydon, and Seismitoad, and it doesn't fare so bad with stuff like Uxie and Drudiggon and could be a winnable matchup in the long run. Grass Knot lets it fend off vs. the bulky Rocks or Grounds and deals great albeit uninvested damage. Brave Bird, coupled with a Gentle Nature over a Calm nature, lets it check Lilligant better as it KOes it after Rocks Damage, and a 50% chance to KO at full, while not sacrificing much bulk as it doesn't make it much different. EV spread is pretty simple to maximize overall bulk and check more special hits and to outspeed up to neutral uninvested base 74's (Specifically Seismitoad). The EV spread is very tweakable depends on your need c:.

Overall a fun mon to use and it somehow dwells decently in the meta for a niche mon. :S

About Gentle Nature

0 Atk Dartrix Brave Bird vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Lilligant: 258-306 (91.8 - 108.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock (50% chance to KO without Rocks)
This is as oppose to the (83.2 - 98.2%) damage Calm Nature Does, and it does not sacrifice a notable amount of bulk.

136+ Atk Steelix Heavy Slam (120 BP) vs. 252 HP / 0- Def Eviolite Dartrix: 136-162 (37.7 - 45%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
This makes no difference with a Calm nature since it still nets a 3HKO vs you.
 
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#92

Exeggutor-Alola @ Dragonium Z / Grassium Z
Ability: Frisk
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpA
Quiet Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 0 Spe
- Trick Room
- Draco Meteor
- Giga Drain / Leaf Storm
- Flamethrower

Seeing that Cofagrigus is getting quite popular with its Offensive Trick Room set I wanted to try another mon that could perform the same role. I used this mon back in December in our speculative meta and it did a good job and I really enjoyed using it. ChrystalFalchion posted a team with Alolan Exeggutor and I wanted to see how it performed in this meta. 125 base Spatk. combined with strong STABs gives it amazing firepower and with Flamethrower it gets perfect coverage. So the offensive output is good. Another aspect it needs to perform well in is setting up Trick Room. 95/85/75 bulk is good enough and paired with 3 4x resists it can set up on most Grass and Electric types and Water types lacking Ice Beam. After a few games i saw how good this mon is and the fact it has a chance to live z-moves and other strong moves is just crazy lol. Devastating Drake also blows away mons that resist it much like Dragalge did in Alpha.


252 SpA Houndoom Black Hole Eclipse (160 BP) vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Exeggutor-Alola: 295-348 (74.8 - 88.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Mismagius Never-Ending Nightmare (160 BP) vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Exeggutor-Alola: 286-337 (72.5 - 85.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Incineroar Malicious Moonsault vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Exeggutor-Alola: 339-399 (86 - 101.2%) -- 12.5% chance to OHKO
252 Atk Life Orb Sheer Force Tauros Body Slam vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Exeggutor-Alola: 226-266 (57.3 - 67.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO


http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7nubeta-595145391 Exeggutor taking hits and making sure Rhydon cleans
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7nubeta-595487546 Once Golbat and Aromatisse are out of the way, Exeggutor cleans and makes sure CroTomb wins 100%

Now my thoughts on the current meta. With all the bans that occurred the last weeks I feel the meta is very stable right now. People are trying different sets on a bunch of different mons and I can only endorse that. People seem to dislike Tyrantrum and Necrozma and i agree that they are very good mons but they definitely have answers and that makes me think that they are not as broken as people think. I'll admit that Tyrantrum checks get worn down pretty easily but it's important to note that Tyrantrum suffers a lot from status and priority from the likes of Sneasel and Hitmonlee. The scarf set is a bit easier to deal with and as Realistic Waters already stated the DD set is very very good. Oh and Head Smash misses all the time
I'm looking forward to possible drops from RU and just the developing of the meta in general. Really enjoying the meta so far.
 

The Goomy

Whitest Mexican Alive
#93
Now my thoughts on the current meta. With all the bans that occurred the last weeks I feel the meta is very stable right now. People are trying different sets on a bunch of different mons and I can only endorse that. People seem to dislike Tyrantrum and Necrozma and i agree that they are very good mons but they definitely have answers and that makes me think that they are not as broken as people think. I'll admit that Tyrantrum checks get worn down pretty easily but it's important to note that Tyrantrum suffers a lot from status and priority from the likes of Sneasel and Hitmonlee. The scarf set is a bit easier to deal with and as Realistic Waters already stated the DD set is very very good. Oh and Head Smash misses all the time
I really tend to disagree with your arguments about Tyrantrum and Necrozma.

252 Atk Choice Band Sneasel Ice Shard vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Tyrantrum: 138-164 (45.2 - 53.7%) -- 37.5% chance to 2HKO
252+ Atk Life Orb Hitmonlee Mach Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Tyrantrum: 151-182 (49.5 - 59.6%) -- 99.6% chance to 2HKO

Tyrantrum has really great natural bulk, so it's actually able to shrug off even the strongest priority in the tier (despite it being super effective) without a lot of prior damage. Why is this important? I makes playing around Ttrum a lot more complicated. Because Scarf is a viable set, it is difficult for the player facing Ttrum because they need damage in order to actually revenge with priority. This makes staying in more often the "better" play and puts all of the power into the hands of the Ttrum player as they can pick up free kills on huge threats by either being scarf or by taking the damage and killing back. Realistically there are few counters to TTrum (Gyro Ball Lix, Rhydon, Metang?, Def Bronzor, Ferroseed?). The natural bulk and versatility of TTrum makes it too much for the NU tier IMO. I feel like people aren't using it because Steelix exists, but Steelix honestly isn't that great because it's pressured super easily and has no recovery, so it will always get worn down and can be forced to be worn down with proper building by the Ttrum player.

With regards to Necrozma, I know there are a lot of good dark types in the tier, but it is just insanely bulky even when running an offensive set. I think the versatility of this mon is crazy, it can run CM 2 atks, Sub CM, CM+ID, SD, SR, Autotomize, etc. It is just very hard to prep for in teambuilder because it can do so many different things and people have realized that CM+ID isn't that great of a set because of dark types, but it can actually beat a lot of the darks with other sets.

Alolan Eggy is super cool tho.
 
#94
Am I the only one who feels like Avalugg is slightly underrated?
I mean he's not amazing, but on a more defensive/hazard stack team he can do decently well.
Biggest problem is the large amount of Steelix, and general fighting and rock types in the tier.
My poor table will probably have to shine a light glow down in PU again, but he is at least usable now.
(He can also run earthquake to damage fires on the switch-in!)
 

Abejas

formerly Allstar
is a Tiering Contributor
#95
Am I the only one who feels like Avalugg is slightly underrated?
I mean he's not amazing, but on a more defensive/hazard stack team he can do decently well.
Biggest problem is the large amount of Steelix, and general fighting and rock types in the tier.
My poor table will probably have to shine a light glow down in PU again, but he is at least usable now.
(He can also run earthquake to damage fires on the switch-in!)
The thing with avalugg is that I see no reason to use it over cryogonal, it even got a defense buff this gen and it also beats every spinblocker in the tier while also having an offensive pressence. Not to mention that it has access to a lot of great of utility moves like knock off, toxic, haze, recover and also access to the great move that is freeze dry.
 
#96
I like Cryogonal but it does not beat every spin blocker. Crotomb uses it as set up fodder.

Has anyone tried Specs Exeggutor-A? In theory its solid - 125 base Special Attack, unregistered coverage, twin 130 BP stabs.
 
#97
Medicham @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Pure Power
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly / Adamant Nature
- High Jump Kick
- Zen Headbutt
- Thunder Punch/Bullet Punch
- Trick/Drain Punch

I'm not so certain about Thunder Punch, but this set from last gen & Gen 5 doesn't seem to be mentioned much but it's still a great set. It's not too good a speed tier for a Choice Scarfer, but it has worked well for me as speed control alongside Accelgor. Max Speed and Attack is straightforward. The choice of nature is up to you, but Jolly lets it outspeed +1 Tyrantrum and lets it revenge it with some chip.

252 Atk Medicham High Jump Kick vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Tyrantrum: 224-266 (73.4 - 87.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

While Medicham is obviously better than Gallade, I still feel that Gallade has a niche - not a big one, but still somewhat there.

Gallade @ Life Orb
Ability: Justified
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Spd / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Close Combat
- Zen Headbutt
- Knock Off
- Swords Dance

Knock Off and Swords Dance are Gallade's biggest advantages over Medicham. The set is straightforward.
also, ban tyrantrum. i'm not so sold on necrozma yet though.

EDIT: It seemed to have accidentally tagged someone named Life Orb. Sorry about that, got rid of the tag!

erisia edit: no prob, try and include breaks between lines in future for readability.
 
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#98
A lot of people seem to think Tyrantrum is an overwhelming pkmn right now and should be voted on again, but I rly disagree with this. The main arguments for why Tyrantrum is broken seem to be that:
  • Its solid natural bulk and unique typing give it a lot of setup opportunities while also making it too difficult to revenge kill even with powerful priority from the likes of Sneasel and Hitmonlee.
  • It is capable of running a ton of different sets (RP 3 atks, Scarf, Band, DD Z-move variants) all to good effect.
While both of these points are fair, I think they are definitely being exaggerated itt and in the PS room. Although Tyrantrum's excellent physical bulk allows for it to tank powerful priority attacks like CB Sneasel's Ice Shard and LO Hitmonlee's Mach Punch from high HP, keeping Tyrantrum out of this range is much more difficult in practice than on paper. Tyrantrum is susceptible to all forms of hazards, and finding an opportunity to set up without being chipped even further can be very challenging given that most pkmn have a means of hitting it for at least neutral damage. Furthermore, even if Tyrantrum does manage to accumulate a DD while staying out of range of priority, due to its fairly low Speed stat, DD sets are all easily rk'd from faster Scarfers such as Rotom-C, Sawk, etc. In theory, Tyrantrum's great bulk for a sweeper makes it too difficult to handle after a boost, but in many cases vs a well built team there will be significant offensive pressure that it is manageable. Lastly, even though Tyrantrum is capable of running a bunch of different sets very effectively, many of these sets still have very similar counter play which makes it easier to prepare for. Most of Tyrantrum's checks and counters, both offensively and defensively are already excellent pokemon in their own right (Steelix, Rhydon, the aforementioned priority users, > 71 Speed Scarfers etc.) which also makes Ttrum much more manageable from a building perspective. Sorry if this was rambly but I wanted to post about this because lots of people continue to rave about this pokemon and it is great, but nobody seemed to be pointing out it's pretty notable flaws which keep it from being broken at least at the moment imo.
 
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#99
In theory, Tyrantrum's great bulk for a sweeper makes it too difficult to handle after a boost, but in many cases vs a well built team there will be significant offensive pressure that it is manageable.
OK, but what about bulkier teams? I know stall isn't really a thing right now, but Tyrantrum may be part of the reason why. It's really hard to build bulkier teams that aren't torn apart by Tyrantrum, because such teams are less able to exert constant heavy offensive pressure, and are also less likely to run the likes of Hitmonlee and Sneasel (which as you admit can't eliminate Tyrantrum without serious prior damage anyway). You're right that Steelix and Rhydon are decent checks to certain sets and that they're good on their own... but that's why Z-Superpower (or Z-EQ, whatevs) is one of the most popular sets. It easily wipes out either of them. And alternatively banded Earthquake or Superpower prevents them from switching in twice. But it's not just a question of Tyrantrum being able to run a large number of sets to choose its checks... I think Fightinium/Groundium-Z sets alone eliminate virtually everything. That's less of a problem for fast offenses which are used to sacking mons and whatnot, but it's brutal for fat teams that aren't built around massive offensive pressure.
 

Pokedots

How should I live to be happy
is a Contributor Alumnus
A lot of people seem to think Tyrantrum is an overwhelming pkmn right now and should be voted on again, but I rly disagree with this. The main arguments for why Tyrantrum is broken seem to be that:
  • Its solid natural bulk and unique typing give it a lot of setup opportunities while also making it too difficult to revenge kill even with powerful priority from the likes of Sneasel and Hitmonlee.
  • It is capable of running a ton of different sets (RP 3 atks, Scarf, Band, DD Z-move variants) all to good effect.
While both of these points are fair, I think they are definitely being exaggerated itt and in the PS room. Although Tyrantrum's excellent physical bulk allows for it to tank powerful priority attacks like CB Sneasel's Ice Shard and LO Hitmonlee's Mach Punch from high HP, keeping Tyrantrum out of this range is much more difficult in practice than on paper. Tyrantrum is susceptible to all forms of hazards, and finding an opportunity to set up without being chipped even further can be very challenging given that most pkmn have a means of hitting it for at least neutral damage. Furthermore, even if Tyrantrum does manage to accumulate a DD while staying out of range of priority, due to its fairly low Speed stat, DD sets are all easily rk'd from faster Scarfers such as Rotom-C, Sawk, etc. In theory, Tyrantrum's great bulk for a sweeper makes it too difficult to handle after a boost, but in many cases vs a well built team there will be significant offensive pressure that it is manageable. Lastly, even though Tyrantrum is capable of running a bunch of different sets very effectively, many of these sets still have very similar counter play which makes it easier to prepare for. Most of Tyrantrum's checks and counters, both offensively and defensively are already excellent pokemon in their own right (Steelix, Rhydon, the aforementioned priority users, > 71 Speed Scarfers etc.) which also makes Ttrum much more manageable from a building perspective. Sorry if this was rambly but I wanted to post about this because lots of people continue to rave about this pokemon and it is great, but nobody seemed to be pointing out it's pretty notable flaws which keep it from being broken at least at the moment imo.
I disagree with a few of your points, mainly in regards to the counterplay available against Tyrantrum. I agree with your point that it can be easy to chip Tyrantrum to a range where it can be KOed with priority (unless you run a resist berry n_n) but there's actually a fair amount of Pokemon it can set up on without much trouble, mainly Pokemon locked into Fire/Normal-type moves such as Emboar, Delphox, and Braviary, or it can bluff a Scarf set against faster threats and force them out, so I think it's easier for it to set up than you give it credit for.

Secondly, while Rhydon and Steelix are both good checks and very common, what you said ignores two things: first that they're probably the easiest Pokemon in the tier to wear down, and second that for me by far the most annoying part about teambuilding in NU atm is that in a lot of cases I feel restricted to having to use Rhydon, Steelix, or kinda Seismitoad because there really just aren't that many Pokemon in the tier that can get take two Head Smashes, and if I don't run one of those 3, the Scarf set especially imo but also DD become too overwhelming for offense and balance to face

I don't think Tyrantrum is 100% broken and not banning it is acceptable to me, but I feel like the tier would be healthier without it
 
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