np: NU Stage 1 - Welcome to Heartbreak

[Honus]

Marowak seems like it would be nice under Trick Room, especially because its main counter Tangela is virtually nowhere due to the widespread presence of Magmortar, Swellow, etc. Victreebell is another Pokemon that would be good under TR, since its essentially a reverse Chlorophyll, there are honestly a myriad of Pokemon that would love TR Support.

The users of toxic spikes and spikes are terrible.

Have to agree with this, Roselia was an amazing Spiker and Toxic Spiker, Garbodor is cute in that it can absorb and lay Tspikes, but doesn't have the staying power Roselia does, and definitely can't wall Pokemon as well as Roselia could. I've found Cacturne to be the most reliable Spiker. It's Speed isn't terrible and it gets many opportunities to Spike during a match, whereas Garbodor and the others really don't. In addition to this, Cacturne forces out more Pokemon that any of the other Spikers could, due to the fact that SD variants are somewhat common and people want to send in their Cacturne counter before it sweeps their team.

 

[Axa]

Yeah, Glalie wishes it had a better ability that wasn't banned. Inner Focus is nice for taking Fake Outs but it can't really do anything. I suppose it could Taunt 'byss on the switch but it takes a lot from Surf. Sawk and Magmortar smashes it to pieces. It can hit Jynx SE and take an Ice Beam I guess and hurt Victreebel and Marowak.

 

[Raikaria]

How does that allow you a free switch? You become the fastest mon on the field under TR and fast U-turn out, leaving another Pokemon vulnerable. If you're going to do that gimmick, use Lagging Tail, with TR/Trick/U-turn/Psychic. This way, you'll go last regardless, tanking the hit and THEN giving the free switch. In addition, you can trick the Lagging Tail onto a fast sweeper so that when Trick Room runs out, its crippled.

I'm pretty sure Iron Ball has the same mechanics as Lagging Tail, but also makes Levitate/Flying Types vunerable to Ground.

In other words, it automatically makes you go last, regardless if TR is up or not.

Still, Iron Ball v Lagging Tail depends on if you want to be vunerable to Ground, at the advantage of being able to make other pokemon vunerable to Ground.

 

[jake]

I'm pretty sure Iron Ball has the same mechanics as Lagging Tail, but also makes Levitate/Flying Types vunerable to Ground.

In other words, it automatically makes you go last, regardless if TR is up or not.

Still, Iron Ball v Lagging Tail depends on if you want to be vunerable to Ground, at the advantage of being able to make other pokemon vunerable to Ground.

Lagging Tail makes you always go last; Iron Ball just makes you slow as shit.

 

[Raseri]

Iron ball cuts your speed in half, which means that you would be super slow under Trick Room and go first.

Lagging Tail reduces your priority by one.

Golem has been a blessing for me so far, gets up rocks easily and walls the birds/half of the physical pokemon. Also I always laugh when people try to set up Gorebyss on it only to be koed by Earthquake+sucker punch

 

[Steamroll]

Lagging Tail reduces your priority by one.

This is 100% false. Priority Counter stays the same (so a move is +1 it stays +1 with lagging tail attached) while you move last if the opponent uses a move with the same counter number. So you can still have prankster pokemon abusing their ability (aka lagging tail sableye) and not have to worry about any non priority moves. Speaking of which I would love to give lagging tail Murkrow a go to see what it can shut down in a game.

 

[Smith]

Golem has been a blessing for me so far, gets up rocks easily and walls the birds/half of the physical pokemon. Also I always laugh when people try to set up Gorebyss on it only to be koed by Earthquake+sucker punch

My only issue with Golem is that his secondary typing gives him some amplified weaknesses I avoid when I use Regirock. It prevents Golem from walling Cinccino, Huntail and the like.

 

[Sabinfrost]

My only issue with Golem is that his secondary typing gives him some amplified weaknesses I avoid when I use Regirock. It prevents Golem from walling Cinccino, Huntail and the like.

I like my Torkoal, always have.

 

[Raseri]

This is 100% false. Priority Counter stays the same (so a move is +1 it stays +1 with lagging tail attached) while you move last if the opponent uses a move with the same counter number. So you can still have prankster pokemon abusing their ability (aka lagging tail sableye) and not have to worry about any non priority moves. Speaking of which I would love to give lagging tail Murkrow a go to see what it can shut down in a game.

oops my mistake :P

Anyways I think Golem's secondary typing can be a blessing as well, STAB EQ allows him to deal respectable damage that Regirock can only dream of, losing out against Cinccino does suck, but frankly I haven't seen enough Huntail to truly consider it yet.


Speaking of it: Where are all the Gorebyss and Huntail, with most of their checks moving up why haven't I been seeing more of them? Every four battles or so I'll see Gorebyss but i've seen ONE Huntail so far, its good to guys.

 

[breh]

regirock is also good because gorebyss can't kill it at all; it lives +0 WH surfs (not sure about hydro pumps)and twaves, making byss useless.

 

[Ice-eyes]

regirock is also good because gorebyss can't kill it at all; it lives +0 WH surfs (not sure about hydro pumps)and twaves, making byss useless.

And then your Regirock is damaged beyond repair, and you lose to one of the many threats that Regirock is supposed to be able to take on. Or, Gorebyss has Life Orb, and you lose your Regirock without even crippling their Gorebyss. Or, Gorebyss has Substitute (seriously, people should try this, it's pretty good) and you lose horribly.

Anyway, going to plug Absol now - it's as ridiculously good as it's always been, keeping stuff in check with that bullet train of a Sucker Punch. It lures out Regirock, smashing it in the face with a +2 Superpower, wrecks most defensive teams, and is really, really useful in those checkmate endgames.

Also, Misdreavus is everywhere. This is odd.

Scarf Sawk is kind of losing effectiveness now that every team has physically defensive Mesprit / Misdreavus / Duosion / Weezing on it.

 

[CrazyBacon]

Scarf Sawk is kind of losing effectiveness now that every team has physically defensive Mesprit / Misdreavus / Duosion / Weezing on it.

I use skuntank with taunt/sucker punch/pursuit/poison Jab to trap mesprit and co. defensive mesprit takes about 50% from pursuit when it switches, those that carry 3 support moves + psychic, are boned as they can come in twice before dying.

Then spam close combat with sawk, once there ghost/psychics are dead, you'd be surprised how often it works. I would choose absol but its so frail.... ._.

weezing I havent seen yet, but I run a psychic mon to check it.

 

[Avira]

Also, Misdreavus is everywhere. This is odd.

It is not odd at all. Misdreavus is leaps and bounds above the rest of the ghosts in NU as a spinblocker just like how Cryogonal is by far the best spinner in the tier. Taunt, Will-o-Wisp, and Perish Song make it extremely useful and the only spinner that can beat Misdreavus 1v1 is Crygonal. Armaldo, Torkoal, and Wartortle just die without spinning, but at least two of them can set up SR unlike Wartortle, who is pretty mediocre in NU.

 

[Ice-eyes]

Misdreavus is an amazing spinblocker, except that it loses to the best spinner.

I pointed out that all the Misdreavus was odd because it really doesn't handle very many of the most common / threatening sweepers right now and it's outright setup fodder for others.

 

[Cherub Agent]

Just want to give a shoutout to SD Absol. Seriously, this bastard is IMO the most lethal Pokemon that currently resides in NU. The reason? Its massive power. 130 base attack is already phenomenal, but when you couple it with SD and LO, Absol goes over 1000 Att in one turn of setup. Then there's the fact that you often don't even need a Swords Dance. Just Night Slash stuff away, Sucker Punch the things that are faster than it. It can easily revenge kill stuff like Gorebyss and Huntail, and lure Regirock out and proceed to annihilate it with a +2 Superpower. Seriously, Absol is always my MVP when i play NU

 

[Endorfins]

Misdreavus is an amazing spinblocker, except that it loses to the best spinner.

I pointed out that all the Misdreavus was odd because it really doesn't handle very many of the most common / threatening sweepers right now and it's outright setup fodder for others.

While this might be true, Misdreavus can turn so many things into set up fodder of its own for the SubCM set. Scarf Sawk, Calm Minding psychics like Duosion get taunted and set up on, most defensive walls like thick fat Miltank cant touch misdreavus behind a sub, SubCM Misdreavus really deserves more recognition

 

[Smith]

While this might be true, Misdreavus can turn so many things into set up fodder of its own for the SubCM set. Scarf Sawk, Calm Minding psychics like Duosion get taunted and set up on, most defensive walls like thick fat Miltank cant touch misdreavus behind a sub, SubCM Misdreavus really deserves more recognition

this. On a team with Regirock as my main physical wall, having a good Sawk counter is really helpful, as is having a good Mesprit counter. It's especially useful as it sets up on the most common special wall in the tier, Lickilicky, with ease.

And these posts have made me realize how Absol weak I am! gadZOOKS

 

[breh]

Misdreavus is an amazing spinblocker, except that it loses to the best spinner.

I pointed out that all the Misdreavus was odd because it really doesn't handle very many of the most common / threatening sweepers right now and it's outright setup fodder for others.

what exactly are you referring to? every good spinner loses to it if it runs heal bell and wisp (cryo fares the best and gets a stalemate). am I missing something?

after seeing the teambat, I really want to try out golbat. it looks very appealing.

 

[Nubagator]

Alright less mentioned threat; Specs Exeggutor is godly. Leaf storm/psycho shock/hp fire/giga drain is going to punch massive holes in just about everything. even resists take loads, it's really, really hard to switch into.

 

[Limewire]

How good is Tentacool as a Tspiker? I mean, its not Roselia v2, it folds under any physical attack, and it can't do shit to Misdreavus (nor any spinblocker, for that matter), but Tentacool has a pretty nifty support movepool and it makes a decent SpD wall with Eviolite, I think.

 

[Smith]

@ Limewire- I know a user that actually tried him and came to the conclusion that he was utter crap. He may sound helpful (toxic spikes, rapid spin, gorebyss check w/ giga drain) but in reality he was just amazingly frail, didn't have any useful recovery, and couldn't do much to anything that switched in or tried to set up. I wouldn't waste your time.

 

[Honus]

Tentacool's alright and while checking Gorebyss, Spinning and laying Tspikes can come in useful, Tentacool's really lackluster in the latter two and has no staying power if it doesn't get Wish support. Overall it's usable, but it works worse than it does in theory.

Alright less mentioned threat; Specs Exeggutor is godly. Leaf storm/psycho shock/hp fire/giga drain is going to punch massive holes in just about everything. even resists take loads, it's really, really hard to switch into.

Yeah, Specs Eggy is really a beast, even Lickilicky runs from Specs Leaf Storm. Speaking of which, I've wanted to try Offensive Sub Exeggutor and Magmortar, I have a feeling they'd work like Hydreigon in OU, since they all have nice coverage, great special attack and decent speed. In addition to this, not many Pokemon can switch into their attacks, so imagine trying to break their sub and take 2 repeated attacks from either of them.

 

[Axa]

Yeah, Tentacool is just... bad.

How does Specially Defensive Mantine work as a Gorebyss check?

 

[Honus]

Yeah, Tentacool is just... bad.

How does Specially Defensive Mantine work as a Gorebyss check?

It really isn't that great of a check; 252 HP/252 SpD Mantine takes 39.52% - 46.71% from Timid LO +2 Hydro Pump, which is a 2HKO after SR while Ice Beam from the same set does 41.92% - 49.4%. Mantine does 42.06% - 50% Gorebyss without the SpD Drop with HP Electric and : 84.13% - 99.21% to Gorebyss if it's at -2 SpD. Overall, it's a decent check, but not one that's extremely reliable, and Gorebyss will win more often than not.

 

[viol and bass]

Mantine has Water Absorb. Changes things a bit.