np: OU Suspect Testing Round 5 - Sandstorm (Excadrill/Thundurus Banned)

[alexwolf]

Oops. My fault. Reading fail on my end there.

Actually, let me be serious for a second. The greatest Scizor counter in the realm of possibility in the pokemon world is 252 hp/252 spA flame body chandelure. The pokemon is not ohko'd or 2HKO'd by anything within Scizor's moveset. Even if Scizor wants to U-turn out to avoid you completely, he risks a 30% chance of being burned. And recovery? No problem. Run pain split! Scizor quite literally can't do anything to you, making it the greatest Scizor counter in the game. LO Bug Bite, CB Superpower. LO Brick Break. CB Bullet punch, you name it.

Whether or not 252 hp/252 spA Chandelure has any other use is not up for discussion. (But...if you want to be crazy and run this thing as your spinblocker, then I'm not stopping you).

Actually CB Scizor 2hkoes 100% of the time max Hp Chandelure after SR!
So it still doesn't counter...
The only way to go if you want to always counter him is with a lot of defense invstement and of 'course max hp!
But even then max hp Zapdos counters Scizor better since it has reliable recovery and isn't 2hkoed by anyhting that Scizor has,and ohkoes of 'course!

 

[Kefka Palazzo™]

Actually CB Scizor 2hkoes 100% of the time max Hp Chandelure after SR!

You lost all credibility. Get out.

 

[Tobes]

You lost all credibility. Get out.

Night Slash. That is all.

 

[alexwolf]

You lost all credibility. Get out.

What????
The calcs were correct!So what is your problem?

 

[Kefka Palazzo™]

Night Slash. That is all.

Higher base speed + SE STAB.
That is all.

 

[Mario With Lasers]

Errr guys, no one is going to use Chandelure to check/counter Scizor anyway, nor would any Scizor worth its balls use Night Slash, so can we get back to whatever we were discussing...

 

[alphatron]

Wait! Before I apologize for bringing the thread down to such levels, just how much damage is chandy taking from Night slash on any Scizor variant.

I must concede that Zapdos is king. It was a losing battle all along and I knew it. It goes without mentioning that it was a bold claim to say that chandelure wasn't 2HKO'd by anything when it wouldn't be in that position to begin with.

To change the subject, I would like to ask the five or six metagross users out there how they are using him. He makes a great counter to the lati twins, but there is so much junk pinned against him, it's hard to justify the team slot for me.

 

[Tobes]

Higher base speed + SE STAB.
That is all.

LO Adamant 252 Atk Scizor Night Slash vs 252 HP Chandelure: 73.5 - 87%
LO Adamant 252 Atk Scizor Bullet Punch vs 252 HP Chandelure: 23.5 - 27.8%

That looks like a solid 2HKO to me.

Edit: Sorry MWL 6.6

 

[Kefka Palazzo™]

Wait! Before I apologize for bringing the thread down to such levels, just how much damage is chandy taking from Night slash on any Scizor variant.

I must concede that Zapdos is king. It was a losing battle all along and I knew it.

252/8 Chandy takes (83.95% - 99.38%) from CB Max Attack Scizor's Night slash.

<,<
Well, no one would use that EV spread for Chandy and no one would use Night Slash Scizor anyway.


EDIT: Kinda ninja'd...although the calcs are both different.

 

[Lee]

CB Night Slash can OHKO 252/0 Chandelure fyi.

it's difficult to really counter Scizor because he'll probably just U-turn to a counter and for that reason it's not a good idea to say that any Stealth Rock weak Pokemon is the ultimate Scizor counter. Gyarados, for example, is a great counter but if he switches in to U-turn whilst Stealth Rock is on the field he's pretty much fucked.

Skarmory is probably the all-round most reliable switch-in, even if he takes heavy damage from SD LO Superpower. He's SR neutral, 4x resists Bug and can phaze boosting variants. Just hope the opponent doesn't have a Magnezone (or I suppose a Volt Switch Rotom-W but most U-turn switch-ins hate seeing that little bastard).

 

[ssbbm]

um im pretty sure a gyarados with fire blast counters scizor

but yeah just posting to say that non-weather is super viable in this meta, just put on lots of dragons and prosper

EDIT: lol ninjaed
but yeah skarm is probably the best switch-in to scizor (if you're slower you can roost and then they don't do anything to you + spikes that skarm makes basically kills cb scizor)

 

[Charro]

Wait! Before I apologize for bringing the thread down to such levels, just how much damage is chandy taking from Night slash on any Scizor variant.

I must concede that Zapdos is king. It was a losing battle all along and I knew it. It goes without mentioning that it was a bold claim to say that chandelure wasn't 2HKO'd by anything when it wouldn't be in that position to begin with.

To change the subject, I would like to ask the five or six metagross users out there how they are using him. He makes a great counter to the lati twins, but there is so much junk pinned against him, it's hard to justify the team slot for me.

I tried Metagross, but is hard to even check those two considering how a specs Draco Meteor from Latios does 51.1% - 60.4% to 252/0 meta, and Surf can 2HKO too, tried some specially defensive variants with choice band and pursuit but Latios just hit way too hard, Metagross is just a decent check at best

 

[AccidentalGreed]

My god, guys. Somebody says Moltres and Rotom-H are the best counters to Scizor for the sake of some trivia, and it's a big deal now with Night Slash. The moves that were mentioned are used situationally, and Scizor won't like being in front of the aforementioned Pokemon, anyway.

As for the actual metagame, Dragonite is more of a neutral presense in BW OU than some of the posters here have made it out to be. Stealth Rock or not, it's certainly not broken or a team liability in comparison to other threats. Latios has also proven to be dangerous, but very manageable at the very least.

 

[MetaGross66]

With Ice Beam & burns flying around (do not forget Stealth Rock) Dragonite is really hard to use. A set that can be annoying (but there are other things more annoying) and useful now is the Parashuffler. Maybe the Rain abuse can be useful, but for the physical sweep is a little crippled .-.

I've been thinking of using Safeguard as a way to prevent status. This could allow it to set up on stuff like Jirachi and not fear the status that plagues it. Only issue here is roar Heatran and Skarmory. Luckily that issue is solved by Magnezone. :) Too bad he doesn't get heal bell with multiscale. :(

So, any opinions on this particular set?

Dragonite (M) @ Leftovers
Trait: Multiscale
EVs: 252 HP / 92 SDef / 160 Spd (they can be tweaked to outspeed the genies and 2KO Jirachi at +1 and +6 respectively, I guess)
Careful Nature (+SDef, -SAtk)
- Dragon Dance
- Roost
- Dragon Claw
- Safeguard

 

[Super Mario Bro]

CB Night slash isn't really viable on Scizor, considering Pursuit almost always outclasses it.

All of the u-turn teams that I'm facing are really pissing me off. It seems like people can just switch endlessly between Rotom-w, Mienshao, Scizor among others and wear down the opposing team big time. It's really hard to gain momentum against those teams, especially if your prediction skills aren't the greatest.

On another note, is there any news about whether the end date of round 5 will be extended or not? IIRC, not many people have qualified so far and the server has been down for a while.

 

[yee]

All of the u-turn teams that I'm facing are really pissing me off. It seems like people can just switch endlessly between Rotom-w, Mienshao, Scizor among others and wear down the opposing team big time. It's really hard to gain momentum against those teams, especially if your prediction skills aren't the greatest.

On another note, is there any news about whether the end date of round 5 will be extended or not? IIRC, not many people have qualified so far and the server has been down for a while.

Lol I think 8 people had it, but thats not including decayed accounts.

Rotom-W is the worst part of U-Turn spam IMO. On its own its already annoying, because you pretty much need Grass type with Natural Cure, Blissey, or bust. Electric/Water STAB is nasty especially in Rain and it can wear down things like Gastrodon with WoW and Pain Split. Having something that can set up SR and another that can set up Spikes puts you in a good position against these teams though, although the incredibly annoying prediction game still applies if youre like me and run Blissey for SR.

 

[Byrn Dragonstone]

Just FYI but Crobat is probably on of the best Scizor counters out there, 4X resisting most of its moves (read U-Turn/Superpower), and having reliable recovery and able to OHKO with Heat Wave.

All of the u-turn teams that I'm facing are really pissing me off. It seems like people can just switch endlessly between Rotom-w, Mienshao, Scizor among others and wear down the opposing team big time. It's really hard to gain momentum against those teams, especially if your prediction skills aren't the greatest.

I apologize as I may be part of the reason such teams are being used so much. That was basically the core of my last RMT thread. Rotom is pretty easy to stop if you have a ground/water pokemon though, and it really screws over the teams when their momentum is stopped.

 

[AfroThunderRule]

Can Crobat even take a Bullet Punch on the switch? Especially being SR weak and all.

 

[SJCrew]

Can Crobat even take a Bullet Punch on the switch? Especially being SR weak and all.

Even if it does take one, it's not going to OHKO with anything (unless it is that rare special variant, but I doubt it's viable), and will just die to another.

 

[MetaGross66]

Just FYI but Crobat is probably on of the best Scizor counters out there, 4X resisting most of its moves (read U-Turn/Superpower), and having reliable recovery and able to OHKO with Heat Wave.


I apologize as I may be part of the reason such teams are being used so much. That was basically the core of my last RMT thread. Rotom is pretty easy to stop if you have a ground/water pokemon though, and it really screws over the teams when their momentum is stopped.

meh, I've been u-turn spamming since the very beginning of this round. I think it's the reason meru posted his little rant and acknowledged my prediction skills in our battles. :D Doesn't matter, though. I just hate that it's not my little secret anymore. >.> tbh, it's better done on a rain team where celebi can't ruin the combo of Scizor and rotom, but I use a weatherless team regardless for my own reasons...

Edit: anyone have any opinions at all about that Dragonite set? It seem to solve most of Dragonite's issues.

 

[Meru]

meh, I've been u-turn spamming since the very beginning of this round. I think it's the reason meru posted his little rant and acknowledged my prediction skills in our battles. :D Doesn't matter, though. I just hate that it's not my little secret anymore. >.> tbh, it's better done on a rain team where celebi can't ruin the combo of Scizor and rotom, but I use a weatherless team regardless for my own reasons...

What? I don't even know who you are. And you're not the person who made Rotom-W/Scizor some big "secret combo"

Also not sure why everybody is looking up pokemon in the Pokedex that are 4x resistant to Bug-type and then saying "best scizor counter!!11".

 

[Byrn Dragonstone]

Crobat can OHKO with heatwave. And it takes around 50% from a Banded Bullet Punch. Don't remember the exact amount, as I haven't run damage calcs but from my battles that was right around where it sat. Of course it helps Crobat if you pair him with something that attracts certain types of attacks (Blissey attracts Superpower for instance) so that you get in basically free.

 

[MetaGross66]

Because I use a bunch of aliases on PO. I'm tapsumbong on PO (you probably don't remember). You were always complaining about Breloom in our matches. :p

I never said it was big either. Rather, I said it was the opposite. -.-

 

[SJCrew]

Crobat can OHKO with heatwave. And it takes around 50% from a Banded Bullet Punch. Don't remember the exact amount, as I haven't run damage calcs but from my battles that was right around where it sat. Of course it helps Crobat if you pair him with something that attracts certain types of attacks (Blissey attracts Superpower for instance) so that you get in basically free.

Actually, without Sp. Att EVs, Crobat has a pretty poor chance to OHKO after rocks. (75.8% - 89.8%)

Also, what kind of Crobat are you running that uses special attacks? Taunt/Roost/Air Slash/Heat Wave? It has to be a bulky support set to take just half from Bullet Punch, in which case you should probably be more concerned about all of the specially bulky weather starters that will switch in on you free of charge and run a Dugtrio or something. Actually most of the tier won't be concerned with your Crobat; it sucks in OU almost invariably.

 

[SlimMan]

Why the hell is a fire type trying to switch in on a bulky water? It isn't killing most of them with T-Bolt anyway.

That was sorta my point, but I must have mis-explained it rather poorly (there I go again). I'll get back you once I can articulate my thoughts into writing better on this particular topic (ie far enough in the future that no one will care anyway).

I came back to this thread just now and found... I don't even know. Scizor should never Night Slash (in this metagame) because Jellicent/Chandelure is pretty much its only use, and they can just out-speed and OHKO or out-speed and burn it respectively. Crobat is not a Scizor counter. It gets promptly 2HKOed by BP as it switches in, and by using a special variant it goes from mostly to completely unviable (IMO, please don't bother arguing over that).
Can we please get back on topic now (or we were already on topic? *shudder*)?

edit: The server has been down for a long period (several days is my criteria) twice in this Round that I'm aware of, possibly more, though I don't think so. Will the end of the Round be delayed?