1: Ninetails/Politoad: Excadrill switches out, Tyranitar comes back in. Your weather inducers can't take a 2nd hit later.
2: Hitmontop loses. End of.
3: Why do you think Gliscor is #4 on the ladder?
4: Dusclops kinda sucks, and it has to take two Earthquakes, so will be completely crippled.
5: Skarmory is only a check. It takes an attack as it switches in [Good Excadrills will not EQ while Gliscor/Skarm are around], it then takes another as it Whirlwinds.
If Skarm brings in something it can't Roost on, gg, because it won't get a second chance. Flinchax is a possibility to.
6: 2HKO'ed on the switch
7: 2HKO'ed, and, Air Baloon?
8: Sableye can't switch in, and Will-O can miss, so you shouldn't rely on it.
9: Rotom-W loses to Return, and X-Sissor and Rock Slide do numbers on it too. Hydro Pump could also miss.
10: Conkel cannot switch in, and Mach Punch can't OHKO without a Band/Guts boost.
11: Sand is up, so how does Sashape survive to Mach Punch? Also, hazards. Also, how does he switch in?
12: Can't really switch, in, is blatently obvious about what it will do, so you switch out.
13: Can take any hit. Once. It cannot switch in. If it tries to revenge, Excadrill switchs out
14: Can't switch in.
15: When are you getting to set up two Cotton Guards? Also X-Scissor, and what can you do back?
So, basically, those 'checks' and 'counters' you described... 90% of them can't switch in, and all but one is a shaky check at best. [Gliscor] Some of them aren't checks at all, such as Dusknoir. Also, none of them stop Excadrill going away, and coming back in later once the obstical has switched out. Oh look, that's a 2nd mon you've had to sac! Then a 3rd!
Excadrill has a lot of counters, checks, which is why he remains in OU. Let me list them all.
Ok, believe it or not, having Excadrill in OU is actually really good for hyper offense. It severely limits the number of scarfers in OU to pretty much Politoed, Rotom, Terrakion, and Landorus, only the latter two of which are dangerous to hyper offense. It is also pretty easy to beat under screens since it can't OHKO anything not weak to EQ and you also have stuff like Reuniclus, balloon Lucario / Terrakion. Reun is excellent for special HO, and Terrakion for physical. Lucario for both. Either way, Excadrill "destroying" HO doesn't make it broken.
I do think Excadrill is broken, but that is besides the point. Gliscor is a really bad counter as if balloon exca gets to 4+ Gliscor will need to be at like 85% to win, not to mention 30% flinch (garchomp 20%) Skarm loses 1v1 and to flinch. The WoWers honestly suck. 25% chance of missing, 30% chance of getting flinched, and exca can also just SD again KO three things before dying. Exca has no solid counters, only checks.
"It severely limits the number of scarfers in OU to pretty much Politoed, Rotom, Terrakion, and Landorus, only the latter two of which are dangerous to hyper offense"
Excadrill isn't a big deal if you have screens and the proper team to deal with it. Virizion, Reuniclus, Balloon Terrakion / Lucario, Multiscale Nite, ect can beat it without screens, Latios, Gyarados, Scizor, many more can check it under screens.
Terrakion and Landorus again aren't the biggest deal unless you are taking SE hits from them. The idea is to look at team preview and play the sweepers that they can't check so well first, or even sweepers that can tank a hit from them under screens.
1.) you switch in to ninetails (unless predicted there is NO REASON to switch in to T-Tar, and who can predict that?!) NInetails outspeeds, excadrill switch to t-tar, now USE YOUR TEAM TO SLOWLY KILL HIS
-How exactly? A legitimate question. I recently suggested that people cite actual battle data after making these types of claims so we can all see the results. This would be a good opportunity to prove this point. Give me a play by play scenario.
2.) Dusclops has pain split, and I am sure People do not mind crippled clops if it means they can kill Excadrill.
Is it really a viable move if you have to sacrifice a pokemon? Maybe, but I don't see why Excadrill wouldn't just Swords Dance when Dusclops is in. He can take a hit, maybe two, but I'm not sure how he puts Excadrill down.
3.) Skarmory can play around it with spikes
Ridiculous statement. What good are spikes going to do when Excadrill is sweeping your team? And there is this move that Excadrill has called Rapid Spin...
4.) Gliscor can OHKO it (if not air balloon, it canNOT run x-scissor AND return, so some of these counters fo better depending on his set.)
It actually can run X-Scissor and Return. It only has to sacrifice rapid spin, which isn't that important on a Sand team. Most don't take much damage from stealth rock, Excadrill's steel typing gives it immunity to toxic spikes.
5.) Rotom-W{: X-Scissor and rock slide cripple it, NOT KILL IT. Will-O and Hydro CAN miss, you can get a crit, HAX IS NO REASON FOR BANNING. So, lets say for arguements sake, that there is no hax in the match. X-Scissor or Rock Slide, Hydro Kill, next!
You switch in Rotom-W, it takes a hit. Excadrill either ends it, or it switches out. To be a true counter, it has to come in on a hit and finish it off.
6.) Conkeldrr would just eat the earthquake and Drain Punch + Mach Punch. He swords dances?!! Even better.
Conkeldurr is a very good Excadrill solution. This is widely accepted.
7.) Bronzong can levitate his ass, and gyro ball hit balloon (IF ANY) and EQ for the OHKO (or 2HKO?)
Another decent option. Again, this is pretty accepted here, I think.
Excadrill can always switch out, THATS THE FUCKING POINT. You sweep everything untill he only has Excadrill left.
Oh, it's that simple? lol. Excadrill is a dominant threat, but no team is running a bunch of Magikarp and Excadrill. Expecting to dominate his team to the point where you have him down to only his Excadrill while your team is still intact is not happening against any decent player.
Wheres the switch now? Especially if hes a late game sweeper, theres really nothing to switch to. You can't use that for every viable counter, (oh he cant beat it, ill switch and he magically dies and exca can come back?!)
One cotton guard buddy, +3=3-4HKO on regular balloon Excadrill. 2-3HKO on LO adamant (if they run X-Scissor, they might now even have it). Taunt=NO Swords Dance. Leech Seed forces switch, momento if hes the last pokemon or gigadrain stall.
Won't comment here. Not familiar enough with Cotton Guard to make any judgments.
Latios/Laias/Celebi/Rotom-W/Umbreaon/Reuniclus can work around him if lacks the X-Scissor.
As someone who has religiously used an Umbreon in past gens, I will tell you right now that Umbreon can do absolutely nothing to Excadrill except hope for confuse ray hax. Toxic? Immune. Payback? Barely dents Excadrill while he Swords Dances. What is Umbreon doing? Yeah, it can survive a hit (if not X-Scissor, which is common).
And maybe I'm not thinking straight, but why benefit does X-Scissor have over Rock Slide when it comes to Rotom besides a minor accuracy problem? I don't see the extra 5 power doing much.
I can handle Excadrill really well if he lacks EQ or Rock Slide. Sadly, we can't make checks based on the magic ability to remove his moves.
Basically, your saying I can't play around forcing Excadrill out and cornering it?
We need some experts here not people who want to ban something b/c they can't deal with it -____-
This is why I recently suggested that any arguments cite actual battle experience to back up their points.
3.) Skarmory can play around it with spikes
Ridiculous statement. What good are spikes going to do when Excadrill is sweeping your team? And there is this move that Excadrill has called Rapid Spin...
It'll stall him out. Since most of the time the battle against excadrill involves lots of switching, then eventually he'll die. Especially true for LO variants;even if they get past skarm eventually they might be down to one or two attacks. The balloon versions can mostly avoid spikes damage, but if they stay in too long-the only way to beat a skarm-they'll get it popped, and start taking spikes damage. As for rapid spin:
LO versions:You just lost 10% of your health and did no damage to me? Thanks bro!
Balloon versions: Nice job. Unfortunately i just popped your balloon while you rapid spun the first time, and if you keep rapid spinning that's more free turns, and you'll still usually take damage from a layer of spikes. Sometimes they can keep it intact the whole game, until they're the last pokemon, but as i explained that puts them at a huge disadvantage, as skarm can now switch in freely and force it out, so that'll usually give you a sizeable advantage, allowing you to keep alive a jellicent or a thundurus or something to nail excadrill at the end.
Ok, first of all a one-in-three chance to get flinched hardly counts as "mega-haxed". Secondly, saying you can just out-predict is a cop-out, the deck is totally stacked in favor of the Excadrill user. You mispredict once, you get flinched once, and your Skarmory is getting mauled or killed while a healthy Excadrill is either phazed out or staring down the rest of your team at +2/+4 while you get get one maybe two layers of spikes down.Bottom line:Skarm is a great counter. As long as you can predict, and don't get mega-haxed.
I call bullshit.
Once your opponent discovers you're crazy enough to try and setup on Excadrill with Skarmory its only a matter of time before he sets up another SD as you spike/roost, forcing you to phaze him as he mauls you with a +4 rock slide, assuming you don't get flinch'd in which case you're screwed.
Ok, first of all a one-in-three chance to get flinched hardly counts as "mega-haxed". Secondly, saying you can just out-predict is a cop-out, the deck is totally stacked in favor of the Excadrill user. You mispredict once, you get flinched once, and your Skarmory is getting mauled or killed while a healthy Excadrill is either phazed out or staring down the rest of your team at +2/+4 while you get get one maybe two layers of spikes down.
Skarmory is a shitty Excadrill counter.
whirlwind brings out Exca and makes it take damage, or forces them to have something else on their team take hazards if they want to keep excadrill safe. If exca stays until lategame, it isn't boosted and something can take a hit and KO. It isn't this easy without a defensive team, but that is the point.
1.) (Politoed/Ninetials)
- Ok, I agree that these two Pokemon are reliable checks. Although I think we can both agree that what makes Excadrill so deadly in the 1st place is it's combination of massive power and super speed under SS. - Politoed and Ninetales automatically eliminate this speed threat with their abilities and hence become reliable counters to Excadrill.
2.) Hitmontop
"- Should be able to take a hit, especially if you pull off an Intimidate. Close Combat, Mach Punch? Sure he can switch out, but you can't ban a Pokemon off other Pokemon teamed with it. Its your job as the trainer to play around his team and take out Excadrill."
Actually Hitmontop cannot live Excadrill's EQ at plus one - (it does 102% on average). The only way Hitmontop can check Excadrill is to use it's tech ability plus LO. Otherwise it will lose to Excadrill. (Usage - 1.6%)
3.) Gliscor
- OK I agree that this is one of the most common and reliable counters to Excadrill.
4.) Dusclops
(+2) Excadrill vs 0HP/252Def Impish Dusclops:
1st turn
Excadrill EQ / Dusclops WoW (75% acc)
810 Atk vs 596 Def & 221 HP (100 Base Power): 147 - 174 (66.52% - 78.73%) / Avg - 71.95%
2nd turn
405 Atk vs 596 Def & 221 HP (100 Base Power): 75 - 88 (33.94% - 39.82%) / Avg - 36.65%
Dusclops will be 2KO'd no problem with 0EVS in HP. If Max HP/Def then Excadrill will do 55% on average with EQ. So assuming it does EQ on the 1st turn and assuming Dusclops burn hits on the 1st turn, then Excadrill can SD again on turn 2. On the very same turn (turn 2) Dusclops can pain split to survive the next hit from EQ. This will leave both Pokemon at 233HP. Both Pokemon will live the next hit, assuming both use EQ. Excadrill being first to attack the next turn, will be victorious. Oh and if WoW missed that first turn Excadrill will 2KO Dusclops with EQ.
5.) Skarmory
Yes, Skarm can counter Excadrill but really all it can do to it is fire of a measly Brave Bird attacks or force it out with Whirlwind. Hmm a temporary solution I guess, but I suppose sooner or later one will die from team mate damage or Hazards.
6.) Dusknoir
I've already explained how Dusclops fails against Excadrill.
7.) Donphan
Is two KO'd by (+2) Excadrills EQ. Assuming Excadrill is holding balloon, Donphan cannot check Excadrill.
8.) Sablye
WoW has a shaky 75% acc and if you miss Excadrill will be OHKOing (impish nature max HP/Def after one SD). If you hit with WoW, Excadrill can still 2KO Sableye so meh unless you get really luckily I wouldn't refer to Sableye as a reliable Excadrill counter.
9.) Rotom-W
(+2) Excadrill Return vs Rotom-W 0HP/0Def:
810 Atk vs 250 Def & 241 HP (102 Base Power): 237 - 279 (98.34% - 115.77%) / Avg - 106.22%
(+2)Excadrill Retrun vs Rotom-W 252HP/252Def Bold:
810 Atk vs 344 Def & 304 HP (102 Base Power): 172 - 203 (56.58% - 66.78%)
Rotom-W needs to be at least EV'd in HP in order to with stand a (+2) Excadrill's Return. However a (+2) Excadrill's return will always 2KO a Rotom-W even if it's EV'd in both HP and Def. Therefore your are relying on a 80% Hydro Pump or a 75% WoW to hit for Rotom-W to be called a reliable Excadrill check.
10.) Conkeldur
Doesn't check it. Excadrill will OHKO Conkeldurr on average after SD and Conkeldurr fails to OHKO Excadrill with mach punch (even with iron fist ability).
11.) Infernape
SashApe can close combat and mach punch FTW. Matter of playing around his team. It works well when your opponent doesn't predict the sash and kill.
Ok so I can pretty much list any sash Pokemon as a reliable Excadrill counter >.< .... no just no.
12.) Azumaril
Ok it checks it but it's only used 1.6% of the time.
13.) Swampert
(+2) Excadrill's EQ vs 252HP/0Def Swampert:
810 Atk vs 216 Def & 404 HP (100 Base Power): 403 - 475 (99.75% - 117.57%) / Avg - 107.92%
Well if your using the standard set then pert isn't a reliable Excadrill counter. Meh but if you want to use pert and invest EV's in def then ok I guess you can call it a counter. (Although pert will be just about as good as dead afterwards.)
14.) Suicune
(+2) Excadrill 2KO's 252HP/252Def Bold suicune with EQ no problem. Whilst cune fails to OHKO Excadrill (doing 79.78% on average with surf). Therefore cune is not a reliable check.
15.) Whismicott
Well this Pokemon can leech seed and out stall practically every sweeper, so meh yes I guess Excadrill will fall to it just like everything else.
16.) Alakazam - Sash
Meh ok if u put sash on it, but this to me is like saying all balloon pokemon are reliable counters to Excadrill =/ (which they are not) and anyway, Focus Blast has a 70% accuracy which is not reliable and Hidden Power Fire only does 67% on average to Excadrill.
I would like to point out that one of your objective in forving Excadrill out is to stop SD. Excadrill can't always pul it off, and your job is to put on the pressure
Also,
Everyone whos against excadrill always thinks like this:
Excadrill @ Life Orb AND Air Air Balloom
nature: jolly and adamant
swords dance
earthquake
rock slide
x-scissor
return
rapid spin
+2 Atk