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np: RU stage 16 - Ding Dong The Witch is Dead

Discussion in 'BW RU' started by Molk, Apr 1, 2013.

  1. Silvershadow234

    Silvershadow234 :]]]]]
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    The problem is when your hail checks are killed by residual damage and a solid defensive core as well as repeated blizzards. Ik they are abundant, but if you're packing scarf emboar + kabutops, then you're going to lose to hail with alomomola / poliwrath unless you can constantly outplay the opponent. I always make sure I run at least two very solid ice resists, and yet it is incredibly easy to lose to a hail team if they are running wrath / mola / regirock etc. You can prepare for the blizzspammers as much as you like with our offensive checks-the point still stands that if you can't break through the defensive core quickly enough before your check dies or is too weak, or keep your checks healthy enough to take on 3 powerful ice types you will lose.

    Also @ cinncino: how does cinncy beat scarf glaceon when glaceon outspeeds and 1HKO's? Idg that at all, unless you're running scarf which is piss ez to switch into. In your post you keep saying if klinklang sets up it's gg. This only applies to offensive hail teams-against defensive hail teams, they are going to be running wrath / steelix etc. that annihilate klinklang ez, so klinklang is borderline useless there. Same applies to shell smash crustle, which is really bad btw.

    Finally, keep in mind that when dealing with hail, you have to make sure you can break a solid defensive core with hail damage constantly stripping your health away, scarf frotom, specs / scarf glaceon, LO frotom, subtect walrein, jynx and snover among others. Hail is really much more versatile than you think.
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  2. Spirit

    Spirit
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    What? Where is the relevancy in this? This kind of thing about having teammates to deal with threats isn't exclusive to hail teams. I don't see how this makes it broken. You set up a circular argument here. Some cores beat other cores big deal, team match up is a thing you know and that doesn't mean something is broken. Some hail teams match up better to your team and others don't, so what? You can't expect to beat everything with one team.

    How is it easy to switch into when it hits half the team for SE damage? -.-


    Yes and I'll send in gallade to chop them up. Your talking as if hail teams are playing 6-1. The teammates argument proves nothing. We can go in circles with this.


    I don't see how this is a problem when offensive teams don't play like stall and take 20 turns to take down a Pokemon. The residual damage is hardly as significant as you think it is to offense. 10 turns is all you need to shatter a defensive core with proper prediction. Defense teams might have an issue, maybe, but they have wish support and recovery moves.

    No. All of those Pokemon you mentioned are weak to SR. 5 are weak to Fire. 5 are weak to fighting. Only 2 can be packed at a time otherwise you will have a horrendous team with shit defensive (and sometimes offensive) synergy. There are less than 10 abusers and all of them are predictable. This isn't like rain where there are 30+ and most can run two or more completely different sets.
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  3. august

    august free the robots
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    yeah ice cream you are definitely acting pretty close minded. hail can be incredibly versatile and dangerous. cincinno doesn't even beat hail. lots of hail runs stuff like steelix, regirock, spiritomb, or escavalier that all easily beat cincinno, not mention that if toxic spikes go down cincinno is losing minimum 18% a turn and a whopping 28% if it chooses to attack (assuming life orb obviously), not to mention that life orb cincinno cannot even OHKO 232 / 4 Walrein with Bullet Seed or Rock Blast and certainly wont be dealing significant damage to 232 / 252+ since Walrein can just Protect it off later in the game against less threatning pokemon.

    klinklang doesn't beat most defensive hail teams. it cant even ohko standard defensive slowking that hail will run to stop stuff like CB entei and you will have to predict PERFECTLY to avoid a thunder wave, not to mention if they run fire blast slowking wins anyway. offensive hail can also easily run emboar to beat klinklang and quagsire actually fits fairly well on hail to stop set up sweepers like kling. kling can't switch in and take repeated blizzards either and it can only break reins subs, not break + hit meaning that if you try to set up you will just be taking more damage.

    this is how I described it yesterday: an offensive team with 5 pokemon that murder walrein (lets say... Rotom-c / Gallade / Galvantula / Kabutops / Entei for shits and giggles) and 1 pokemon that gives Walrein a free sub (Druddigon, Defensive Slowking, Spiritomb to name a few) WILL STILL LOSE TO WALREIN IF IT GETS A SUB. I am 100% sure that I have the most experience with hail and walrein than anyone else who posted here so I can freely say that Walrein will easily beat that team with just 1 opportunity for a sub. Anything without Leftovers can be stalled out from behind a sub. Walrein can stall out 2 full pokemon from 100% health with ONLY HAIL. this doesn't take into account recoil moves, toxic spikes, stealth rock, and life orb. just by itself it can kill 2 pokemon without leftovers. this is what makes hail so ridiculously dangerous and this is what you're not seeing.

    also your hail analysis is pretty incomplete, there are a ton of pokemon that fit on hail that you have made no mention of. my team doesn't fit the archetypes you've posted but its still been incredibly successful (snover / kabutops / gallade / fast reflect rock uxie / drapion / walrein), not to mention im not even sure you've used hail yourself since you've mis presented a fair amount of information both regarding hail and how to build for hail
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  4. DittoCrow

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    I'm agreeing with august here. Snover is not "a horrendous Pokemon in every respect" because it can actually wear down offensive teams instead of just setting up hail like people think. You also don't have to use Snover in the lead slot. It works perfectly fine if Stealth Rock is off the field, and even if it isn't, Snover can still come in on Choice-locked attacks like a -2 Rotom-C Leaf Storm and other Pokemon like Lanturn and Qwilfish. Of the Pokemon you mentioned, all of the Fire-types take around 25%~ from Blizzard; if they are switching in, they'll take 2 Blizzards if Snover's Sash isn't broken, plus hail damage (more if Snover has Protect), some damage from Ice Shard, and in some cases, recoil from Flare Blitz if you have to go that way. So when these Fire-types are finished with Snover, they have essentially lost around 80% if they switch into Blizzard, or around 30% less if they lead vs Snover. This makes them easily dealt with ESPECIALLY if Stealth Rock is up and unable to take further BlizzSpams later in the match, giving the hail team a huge advantage even if you have another Ice-resist. Snover can also outspeed both Crustle and Rhydon, OHKOing the latter and breaking the former's Sturdy preventing it from doing it's role: setting up hazards. Cinccino is easily worn down by Stealth Rock and hail damage, and hail teams will usually have an answer to it such as Escavalier, as august mentioned, so Snover will usually not even have to deal with it. For the Pokemon who "flat-out wall Snover," Hariyama and Uxie get worn down super easily which causes them to lose usefulness throughout the match, Snover can outspeed and deal 40-48% to Aggron, while Clefable and Cryogonal are solid options but are really only seen on defensive teams. Snover is really tough to deal with for offensive teams. Every member of an offensive team is important, and if Snover is able to wear down just one member—especially if it is a threat to hail like Emboar—the hail team will instantly have momentum and the advantage just from sending out a "useless Pokemon." The only time Snover was 100% useless for me was against stall.
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  5. Spirit

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    I don't understand why we're using the teammates argument again? Yeah, those Pokemon stop cincinno, but what exactly is stopping me from carry a fighting or fire type? The teammate argument, as I addressed previously, is basically saying "Well, since I can pack something that beats a hail threat, that makes hail broken because the team support makes it unstoppable." By stating this kind of argument, you're refusing to recognize the fact that the opposing team has teammates as well. I really don't get this kind of argument, it proves nothing other than the fact hail can carry things to beat its counters, just like every other team that exists. The flaw, as I addressed previously, as that the hail threats are relatively one dimensional defensively or sometimes offensively. At least half the team is weak to a single type, if not more. You don't see this in Stall or HO teams.


    Maybe the team is just bad ? I don't know if put you that into consideration. This ladder doesn't have the biggest amount of skill, you know. Maybe if the team had a phaser, a bulky taunt user, or something that can hit through subs or set once up, I'd consider otherwise. If that entei is SubCM or gallade has taunt, you beat walrein, so I don't get the problem if that is the case.

    I made a list of the abusers, obviously, if I wanted to do a complete analysis it would have have 5x the amount I wrote. The analysis states which Pokemon abuse hail, not the ones the can just fit on the team (which is pretty darn irrelevant when you're looking at the grand scheme of things).


    I don't see how any of those Pokemon besides walrein quantifies itself as a hail abuser? All of them except for the aforementioned Pokemon dislike the presence of hail. It either chips away at them much faster, or it negates their Leftovers recovery. There's a huge freaking difference between an "abuser" and a Pokemon who fits on a hail team. You only have one abuser on your team, the rest of your Pokemon are built around walrein and how they can support its stalling. Like I said, the Pokemon that support hail don't make it any more diverse. It's the Pokemon that benefit from the weather that do. Take a look at an OU rain for an example. you have a team of Politoed / Tentacruel / Bronzong / Tornadus / Jolteon / Dugtrio. All of those Pokemon benefit from the presence of the rain except for Dugtrio. This is what makes OU rain diverse, the fact that there are so many different Pokemon that can take advantage of the aforementioned weather, they have varying types/stats/ and movepools. Hail doesn't have any of that. They're all Ice-types that share common weaknesses. Maybe your definition of "diversity" is skewed or something. But when you look at what makes rain diverse, you don't look at Dugtrio, the support mon, you look at all the the different array of Pokemon that can take advantage of the weather either offensively or defensively. And like I said, there are less than 10 of them that can do that. Hail is certainly not diverse, and I'm insulted by the fact that you called me "closed minded" and claim that I don't even use hail when you're giving me this type of logic.
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  6. august

    august free the robots
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    who is using the team mate argument now..?

    It was obviously an example team as you can clearly see if you were to i dunno read what i said? I clearly said for shits and giggles. By the way, taunt gallade is taking minimum 50% in an ordeal with stallrein, not to mention you flat out lose if toxic spikes are down. stallrein wrecks sub cm entei too by the way. stealth rock weak + lack of poison immunity + roar and the fact +1 entei does like 30% to walrein means that itll flat out lose. goes to show that even with you arguing that moveset changes would make the team less hail weak, it is STILL hail weak

    you also listed a ton of pokemon that don't even beat hail or dont like taking on snover for that matter. and yes i know you listed all the abusers but then you bash on them about compounding weaknesses without even bothering to mention that those are easily patched up.
    thats the fucking point. you dont need multiple abusers on a hail team to be successful. no shit you're going to be compounding weaknesses if you use a bunch of hail abusers

    yes, this is what makes a successful team?


    ok i stopped reading here. you can't compare ru hail to ou rain. hail is THE ONLY RU PERMA WEATHER. rain faces competition from the likes of sun, sand and even the anti metagame hail. you can't compare ru hail, a singular perma weather to weather from a metagame that is geared about winning a weather war

    i don't think i'm the only one who thinks this
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  7. Spirit

    Spirit
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    You missed the point. I'm saying that it's obsolete because we can go in circles with it.

    Maybe if you use an example team to prove your point, it shouldn't be a bad team. I'd listen if it was a properly built team with no gaping weaknesses. That was a bad move on your part.

    Yes they can be easily patched up, but the point is that it limits to the amount of abusers you can have on a team.


    How about you actually read it, I'm not talking about weather wars or anything of that sort. I'm speaking on how hail teams aren't diverse and what makes diversity in a team. It's clearly the abusers (which let me remind you for hail, are mostly one dimensional and difficult to stack), not the Pokemon keeping the team from falling apart. When you're looking at a diverse rain team, you don't look at dugtrio the support mon, you look at all the different types of walls and sweepers the benefit from the presence of rain (Jirachi, Ferrothorn, Tentacruel, ect). Hail certainly is not diverse under those characteristics and faces a hell of a lot more complications when team building. Along with Snover, this is one of their underlying flaws and a reason why I don't believe it's broken. If they had a better weather inducer and could stack abusers that have great synergy, then yeah, I would think it's broken. This clearly isn't the case though.
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  8. august

    august free the robots
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    i like how you clearly ignore that despite me proving to you that even with your changes (taunt gallade and sub cm entei) that the team was still hail weak. any way if you are going to be one dimensional about this and refuse to believe that hail is broken when it CLEARLY has the ability to be if used correctly so its rather pointless for me to continue an argument that i'm right about anyway

    and just because my other example team was "shit" according to you, scolipede / entei / sd gatr / acroblimp / rotom-c / lo sr mesprit. a very well built offensive team that can pressure walrein and STILL flat out loses if it gets a sub
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  9. Molk

    Molk Crustle knocked off the opposing Rhydon's Assault Vest!
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    ....well i guess the hail discussion has died down a bit (although some more discussion on its status in the tier would be cool). So i guess i'll post about something different for now :).

    Regenerator Cores

    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]

    With many great defensive Pokemon possessing the ability, including Slowking, what is arguably the best Pokemon in the tier, Regenerator cores have been quite commonplace in RU for a while now. Of course, Slowking+Tangrowth and the like aren't nearly as hard to break as they were in BW1, but they're still effective defensive cores capable of taking on much of the tier, especially when supported to cover their flaws common Regenerator cores these days include Slowking+Tangrowth, Slowking+Amoonguss, and Alomomola+Amoonguss. So first off, lets look at Regenerator. Regenerator is probably one of the best abilities in Pokemon at the moment, granting the Pokemon with the ability essentially free recovery every time they switch in and out. This makes Regenerator one of the best abilities for a defensive Pokemon or bulky pivot to have. As for the Pokemon themselves, all of the Regenerator Pokemon in RU possess high defensive stats, multiple important support moves such as Spore, Thunder Wave, Stun Spore, Sleep Powder, Toxic, Wish, Heal Bell, and Clear Smog, and have excellent type synergy to boot! Further augmenting the usefulness of these cores. Now Regenerator cores are usually seen as defensive, but what people always seem to forget is that Regenerator is a great ability for an offensive Pokemon too, letting them heal off potential residual damage from attacking and last longer throughout the match. Specs Slowking, Offensive Trick Room Slowking, Offensive Tangrowth, and Life Orb Amoonguss are good examples of good offensive Regenerator Pokemon. Now as i mentioned before, Regenerator cores are common and powerful, but they're far from unbreakable, especially in the current metagame. Here are a few examples of things that break regenerator cores/make them easier to handle.

    Substitute+Bulk Up Braviary
    [​IMG]

    Substitute+Bulk Up Braviary is perhaps one of the best ways to break through defensive varients of these Regenerator cores. Although Braviary is usually seen as sort of a glass cannon because of its Stealth Rock weakness and the recoil damage its taking from Brave Bird, Braviary actually has decent 100/75/75 defenses, allowing it to be eved so that none of the common Regenerator Pokemon can break Braviary's sub in one hit. From there Braviary can simply repeatedly set up with Bulk Up, using Roost to heal off any damage taken during the process, and smash through the poor core when its ready to sweep. Not even Alomomola is bulky enough to take repeated Brave Birds from a boosted Bulk Up Braviary!.

    Lum SD Gallade
    [​IMG]

    Lum Swords Dance Gallade is also a good check to regenerator cores. SD Lum Gallade has the ability to set up a Swords Dance against any attack a regenerator core would be able to throw at it bar maybe Tangrowth's Power Whip, and its trusty Lum Berry makes sure the core can't attempt to cripple Tangrowth with status. Once set up, Gallade can just power through the core with a combination of Close Combat, Zen Headbutt, and Leaf Blade. Not even Alomomola and Tangrowth can take on a boosted Gallade (unless the latter has Power Whip). As Gallade can simply grab an extra boost and smash both of them with a +4 Close Combat, which astoundingly OHKOs both of them. Lastly, Gallade is incredbly good at breaking down defensive cores in general, so other Pokemon that might be used to cover a Regenerator core's weaknesses might not be able to beat Gallade after a boost.

    Hazards overload
    [​IMG][​IMG]

    While Regenerator Pokemon are a bit more resistant to Entry hazards compared to other Pokemon thanks to their passive recovery, large amounts of entry hazards can still wear them down, counteracting Regenerator and making the core much harder to break through. Qwilfish, Ferroseed, Crustle, Smeargle, Steelix, Omastar, Uxie, and Druddigon are good examples of common hazard setters, and Ghost-types such as bulky Rotom, Misdreavus, and Spiritomb are good options to counteract any attempt to spin these hazards away.

    Escavalier
    [​IMG]

    Escavalier can be quite tough for any Regenerator core to handle, especially with a bit of Speed Creep to outrun Slowking, Amoonguss and the like. One of the major flaws of the TanKing Regenerator core way back then was that it lacked a way to take on powerful Bug-type Pokemon, and Escavalier is no exception. Because of Escav's Bug/Steel typing and good bulk it should be able to switch in on anything except for Slowking's Fire Blast and Amoonguss/Tangrowth's Hidden Power Fire reliably, and can then proceed to smash a team member with its mighty Choice Band Megahorn. Not even Alomomola can stand up to this brute, with Megahorn scoring a guarenteed 2HKO on it after Stealth Rock, even with protect recovery factored in!

    SubCM Uxie

    [​IMG]

    SubCM Uxie is in a similar boat to Braviary regarding defensive Regenerator cores, and while it doesn't have any recovery outside of Leftovers like Brav does, Uxie still does a fine job of boosting up and breaking through those cores with ease thanks to its superior bulk, lack of a Stealth Rock weakness, and better overall coverage between Psyshock and Thunderbolt. Once Uxie switches in safely against a Regenerator core, its essentially game over unless the opponent has another method of taking out the pixie, as Uxie can just set up all over them while healing off all the Hp it lost from using Substitute with Leftovers. Out of all the possible regenerator Pokemon, Power Whip Tangrowth probably performs best against SubCM uxie, but can still lose if the uxie user decides to use Psychic (this isn't recommended though!).

    So what kinds of experiences have you had with Regenerator cores? Or really Pokemon with Regenerator in general, what teams do you use them on? What kind of support do you give them to cover their weaknesses? and what strategies do you use to break through them?
    Double01 likes this.
  10. Nebuchadnezzar

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    Hazards are, in my opinion, the best way to deal with Regenerator cores. 3 layers of Spikes strips their recovery upon switching down to a measly 8%, while the addition of SR ensures that the Regenerated health is nullified. Toxic Spikes are great for wearing down anything not named Amoongus and Audino if it doesn't carry Heal Bell.

    Basically, hazards + any strong attacker is great for wearing down Regenerator cores. Constant switching in and taking powerful attacks ensures that they won't last on the field for very long.

    Here are some calcs using Tauros, one of the most underrated and biggest threats in the current meta in my opinion.
    Show Hide
    252 Atk Life Orb Sheer Force Tauros Rock Climb vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Alomomola: 173-204 (32.39 - 38.2%) -- 62.11% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Spikes 3 layers of Spikes

    252 Atk Life Orb Sheer Force Tauros Rock Climb vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Audino: 234-277 (57.07 - 67.56%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
    252 Atk Life Orb Sheer Force Tauros Rock Climb vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Audino: 234-277 (57.07 - 67.56%) -- 18.75% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock and Spikes 3 layers of Spikes

    252 Atk Life Orb Sheer Force Tauros Rock Climb vs. 252 HP / 88 Def
    Amoonguss: 247-292 (57.17 - 67.59%) -- guaranteed 2HKO 18.75% chance to OHKO with SR and 3 layers of Spikes

    252 Atk Life Orb Sheer Force Tauros Rock Climb vs. 248 HP / 144 Def Slowking: 211-250 (53.68 - 63.61%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

    4 SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Tauros Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Tangrowth: 250-296 (61.88 - 73.26%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

    4 SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Tauros Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Tangrowth: 250-296 (61.88 - 73.26%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
    4 SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Tauros Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Tangrowth: 250-296 (61.88 - 73.26%) -- 62.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock and Spikes 3 layers of Spikes


    As you can see, Tauros can OHKO or 2HKO every single Regenerator with proper hazard support, and some without hazards. For an NU poke, he really packs a punch.

    His usefulness isn't just in breaking through Regenerator cores, however, as he absolutely mauls many other offensive and defensive threats in the tier. Tauros outspeeds and OHKOs Durant, Escavalier, Aggron, Gardevoir, Gallade, Absol, Cryogonal, non-Choice Scarf Galvantula and many, many more. Additionally, a few layers of Spikes or SR can turn near OHKOs into clean kills.

    In my opinion, which may not count for much since I'm still sort of an RU noob, Tauros should be a consideration for any team due to it's raw power and Speed. Misses can be troublesome, but the Bull can net a variety of kills other pokes simply cannot.
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  11. Silvershadow234

    Silvershadow234 :]]]]]
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    3 layers of spikes is normally not necessary. 1 layer and sr usually allows pokemon such as absol and tauros to rip through regenerator cores quite easily. Extremely powerful wallbreakers such as aggron, moltres and escavalier are very good at breaking through regen cores as well. Generally most stallbreakers are capable of breaking through these regen cores, as they are basically simple, easy to use defensive cores.

    I think one poke that hasn't been touched on much during the hail discussion is walrein. Ik it has been talked about a bit, but walrein is rlly, rlly good right now. In hail it can stall out entire teams with ease, and with tspikes it's even harder to beat. Right now, I'm running a specially defensive spread because that allows it to check moltres and magmortar easily, and since most physical attackers carry rock / fighting moves I think specially defensive is the way to go. Even without investment on the physical side walrein is still very bulky and hard to break through without se STAB's. I've only played against walrein a few times, but it has always been a huge thorn in my side due to how easy it is to simply stall out pp(for example, you can stall esca out of iron head pp quite easily)and of course hail damage adds up so quickly. Every time I've used it, it hasn't really let me down at all, and with a bit of support is usually able to stall out entire teams with sub + protect. Scarf rein is also a v cool set, obviously not as good as the stallrein set but is very useful as its bulky af even without investment and water STAB certainly helps against moltres / magmortar which most scarfed ice types struggle with. So wat do you guys think of rein in this meta?
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  12. Molk

    Molk Crustle knocked off the opposing Rhydon's Assault Vest!
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    [​IMG]
    Agreeing that Tauros is an absolute monster in the current metagame (it really has been for quite a long time, i'm really surprised it hasnt caught on as a popular pokemon among other players yet tbh :/). Most powerful Normal-types perform pretty well in RU, and Tauros is no exception. Sheer Force boosts the base power of many of Tauros's potential moves, such as Rock Climb, Rock Slide, Zen Headbutt, and even Fire Blast (don't laugh, Sheer Force Fire Blast actually has just enough power to 2HKO things like Escavalier, Tangrowth, and Steelix, and OHKOs Durant too which is always great), and also cancels out any Life Orb recoil Tauros would've taken when it uses any of these moves, giving it quite a bit more longetivity compared to the other Normal-types. Tauros's Speed is a really important factor in its viability too, 110 is a great Speed tier to have in RU, outpacing the majority of the unboosted tier, while having the power and coverage to 2HKO the majority of them at worst. If you want a few examples of how Tauros can be effective in RU, there are two great RMTs featuring the powerful bull: The Running Of The Bulls by august, and ruGGed mountain by Shakeitup, both teams are from the Nidoqueen metagame, but not much has really changed for Tauros since then to be honest. If you're interested in giving Tauros a try, i placed an import of the standard Life Orb Tauros below! have fun! :).

    [​IMG]
    Tauros (M) @ Life Orb
    Trait: Sheer Force
    EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Naive Nature
    - Rock Climb
    - Rock Slide
    - Fire Blast
    - Earthquake
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  13. EonX

    EonX The One and Only
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    Definitely agreeing that Tauros is pretty underrated right now.

    As for Regenerator Pokemon, I've never really used them together, but I use Slowking and Amoonguss on seperate teams. The Slowking team actually dates back to the Nidoqueen meta (back before I went on hiatus) and it utilized the Specs set alongside Scarf Emboar with Steelix and Defensive Druddigon tanking hits as necessary.
    As far as Amoonguss goes, I find that it's a fantastic partner for Mixed Attacker Samurott. Samurott is great at breaking down defensive cores, but it has a major issue with any faster Grass- or Electric-type (AKA pretty much every single one of them) and Amoonguss handles them all very nicely while still being able to take out the likes of Lanturn. Put a Fire-type like Emboar or Entei into the mix and it becomes a really good balanced core imo.

    SR and a single layer of Spikes just kills Regenerator cores. Even worse, the most reliable spinner, Kabutops, generally has bad synergy with at least one part of the core (or just doesn't fit with the typical playstyle in the cases of Audino and Alomomola) As a final note, CB Braviary may not be overly common, but it will generally decimate at least 1 part of the core before it goes down as Brave Bird will 2HKO every common Regenerator Pokemon after SR and 1 layer of Spikes.
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  14. august

    august free the robots
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    Agreeing that Amoonguss + Mixed Samurott is awesome. I've been using a team lately that utilizes this core and its been doing fantastic. Amoongus is specially bulky enough to deal with pretty much anything without a super effective STAB move and also has enough physical bulk to take on most fighters outside of gallade. Stun Spore allows Amoonguss to annoy stuff like Magmortar and Moltres as well who may come in before or after something has been Spored. I often find myself Stun Sporing early to find out what the opponents sleep fodder is and then Sporing later in the game to incapacitate one of the counters to my sleepers late game. Samurott on the other hand smacks around a good deal of defensive pokemon in RU. Megahorn + Ice Beam allow it to tear through TanKing, HP Grass can deal with Alomomola on the switch, and Hydro Pump still does a buttload to Clefable and you can pressure it out.

    Strong fire mons give this core trouble, especially CB Entei. I use Rhydon alongside it because it sets up Stealth Rock and packs considerable power while doing very well vs CB Entei, but something like Regirock (MANRock) is capable of beating Life Orb Moltres while also setting up Stealth Rock and spreading status with paralysis
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  15. EonX

    EonX The One and Only
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    @ august- eerie. I've been using Rhydon with that core as well. Been using Scarf Emboar to finish the FWG core for that team, but there's no denying that dealing with LO Moltres is a pain in the ass for that core. Worst problem is that Slowking and Lanturn are very hard to fit into that core due to synergy issues :( May try Regirock, but I love having a backup Megahorn so that Samurott doesn't always need it with Psychic-types like Uxie and Slowking.
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  16. Molk

    Molk Crustle knocked off the opposing Rhydon's Assault Vest!
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    Durant

    [​IMG]

    Durant is probably one of the most feared physical sweepers in the entire RU tier despite its small size, and for good reason, with good Attack, Defense, and especially Speed, an ability that boosts its Attack stat even further (despite an annoying drawback..), the addition of Superpower that lets it get past old checks, and a nice Bug/Steel typing that helps it set up and also gives it resistances to common priority moves such as Sucker Punch and Extremespeed, Durant's one of the biggest threats in the RU tier (it was even banned at one point!). Of course this means that pretty much any successful team has to have a way to squash the bug, or they'll probably end up being torn to mincemeat. So, how do you handle Durant in the current metagame? What Pokemon do you think make good checks to Durant, and why? Personally, my two favorite checks to Durant are Qwilfish and Choice Scarf Emboar. Qwilfish can cut Durant's Attack stat with intimidate, while resisting all of X-scissor, Iron Head, and Superpower, only fearing the rare Thunder Fang. In return, Qwilfish can Paralyze Durant with Thunder Wave and proceed to either wear the bug down with Waterfall or set up some hazards. While Emboar boasts a resistance to Iron Head and a 4x resistance to X-scissor, can outspeed the bug with ease with a Choice Scarf equipped, and OHKO Durant with Flare Blitz. Other Durant checks that i've used include Poliwrath, Alomomola (to an extent), and some varients of Normal Rotom.
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  17. EonX

    EonX The One and Only
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    Durant is a really solid Pokemon. It has high Attack and its Speed is higher than that of most unboosted Pokemon in RU (save for stuff like Sceptile and Aerodactyl) Choice Scarf Emboar is pretty much the best offensive check in the tier. It resists both of Durant's STAB moves (4x resists X-Scissor as Molk pointed out) and can demolish it with Flare Blitz. Another good offensive check is Choice Scarf Braviary. It has a harder time switching in as Iron Head does a buttload and Rock Slide will likely KO if Durant carries it, but if Braviary gets in, Brave Bird will do a real number despite Durant's high Defense due to its low HP stat.

    The best defensive checks are probably Qwilfish and Poliwrath. Qwilfish has Intimidate to nullify a Hone Claws boost and can proceed to hit it with Waterfall, Taunt it, or cripple it with Thunder Wave. On the other hand, Poliwrath has RestTalk for reliable recovery and can threaten a burn with Scald or just phaze Durant out with Circle Throw. Also, Steelix entirely walls Durant if it lacks Superpower, but most Durant seem to carry the move.
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  18. Cherub Agent

    Cherub Agent ium and me <3
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    Durant is a cool Pokemon. I think the two Pokemon you mentioned are easily among the best ways to deal with it (Emboar especially so). I don't so much believe in countering Durant, as it's nigh impossible, but I tend to resort to simply not letting it ever set up a Hone Claws (this means using Pokemon such as Fire Blast Absol and Tauros, the latter can also revenge kill it though), using a Choice Scarf Pokemon such as Rotom-C, whose Electric-type STAB moves smash Durant, or simply banking on Hone Claws misses.

    I tend to not think of Durant as a sweeper (my preferred definition of a sweeper is a Pokemon that will either boost its Speed or have priority) but as a breaker. Durant is higly adept at luring out some Pokemon and killing them off with Thunder Fang, a fact which can be abused with the right teammates. Durant weakens walls like no other with a moveset of Thunder Fang / Superpower / Iron Head / Hone Claws. Moltres, Qwilfish, Poliwrath etc are all lured out and dispatched, which allows a secondary breaker in Choice Band Escavalier (double Steel/Bug ftw) to cheerfully wreck havoc with its Megahorns. What is your opinion on Thunder Fang, and what Pokemon do you like to pair with Durant to abuse the holes it puts in walls?

    I also wanted to point out that Durant is also one of the few Pokemon who can actually run Aerial Ace effectively. Not only will it not miss, but it always OHKOs incoming Choice Scarf Emboar after Stealth Rock with Jolly and a Life Orb. This is INCREDIBLY useful if Durant is paired up with a sweeper or cleaner such as Lilligant or Sceptile, as it will always lure Emboar in if your opponent has one, and thus create a clear path for your Grass-type sweeper. This can be used on an all-out attacking set without Hone Claws, as you're not setting up anyway due to Emboar outspeeding you.
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  19. atomicllamas

    atomicllamas NIPPLE BLADES OF FURY
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    If Durant lacks stone edge/rock slide, Moltres is an excellent counter to Durant, as it resists all of its other attacks and 4x resists x-scissor. Even if it does have rock slide/stone edge Moltres does okay, because rock slide only has a 72% chance to hit, and stone edge (which is more common) only has a 64% chance to hit (worse than focus miss). Any scarfed/naturally faster pokemon that hits on the special side is a decent answer to Durant, especially stuff like scarf Manectric, offensive Accelgor (if focus blast hits/hp fire), Sceptile (if focus blast hits/hp fire), and scarf Rotom-mow (after stealth rocks or hp fire). Scarf Emboar is also an awesome choice to deal with Durant as previously stated.

    Another great option is to paralyze it on the set up, only 8% of Durants used a lum berry in May, even though its probably its best choice (don't set up on Uxie without a lum berry people -_-).

    This said, it is almost impossible to switch into Durant unless you have something like Steelix, Rotom, or Poliwrath, although Steelix doesn't enjoy Superpower and Rotom doesn't like stone edge/rock slide too much. Durant is a super threatening mon that every team needs an answer too.
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  20. Molk

    Molk Crustle knocked off the opposing Rhydon's Assault Vest!
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    Electric-types

    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]

    13:54 Oglemi electric stab is really really good atm

    Electric-types have always been pretty good in RU, and this metagame is no exception. Electric-type STAB hits many common Pokemon for super effective damage, such as Kabutops, Moltres, Sigilyph, Qwilfish, and especially Slowking, and has pretty good neutral coverage overall, making it a pretty invaluable offensive type right now. Almost every Electric-type is capable of using Volt Switch as well, easily one of the best moves in the game, especially in RU. In fact, i'd probably say that pretty much every team needs to carry some way to deal with Electric-types at the moment, whether its a Ground-type like Golurk, Rhydon, or Piloswine thats completely immune to Electric-type moves, Druddigon who resists them and any coverage that the common Electric-types might carry, or even an Electric-type of your own such as Lanturn, Manectric, or Rotom-C to absorb the moves, a resistance to Volt Switch etc is just way to valuable to pass up. Each Electric-type is different and all of them have their positive and negative points, so theres quite a bit to discuss! So, How to you think Electric-types perform in the current metagame? Which is your favorite one to use, if any?, and what are some common ways to deal with the Electrics and their annoying Volt Switch Personally, Rotom-C is by far my favorite Electric-type at the moment. Its just such a useful Pokemon in general, not just does it have the nice Electric STAB to utilize, but its nice bulk and secondary Grass-typing give it many chances to pivot in and out, and also let the lawnmower check some common threats such as Kabutops and Slowking with ease. Furthermore, Rotom-C can threaten the common Ground-types that might switch in to absorb Volt Switch with a powerful STAB Leaf Storm, making blocking Volt Switch a dangerous task for the opponent. The Rotom-C set i run most is the Choice Scarf set, but Choice Specs, Expert Belt, and Chestorest are good options as well imo.
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  21. atomicllamas

    atomicllamas NIPPLE BLADES OF FURY
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    This is a really good topic.

    Electric Types

    Rotom-C is probably the best electric type in the current meta, but as Molk said all of them have their own positive traits.

    Rotom-N is an awesome mon because it is capable of supporting the team via spin-blocking while also providing offensive pressure with its good speed and offense, it is also capable of beating Kabutops, the best spinner in the tier. Even though its base stats are underwhelming, it's awesome typing makes up for it with 3 immunities, 5 resistances, and only two weaknesses. Rotom-N is also resistant to both Bug and Electric, making it hard to wear down with a volt-turn core.

    Magneton is also capable of providing team support while maintaining offensive pressure by trapping steal pokemon making him a great teammate for stuff like Swellow and dragon types. He single-handedly makes drag-mag possible in RU (I mean I guess Propbopass, but I prefer Magneton). Specially defensive Magneton is awesome against hail teams, which are very threatening in this meta. Magneton can be more defensive with eviolite or offensive with something like scarf or specs.

    Lanturn is by far the most support oriented electric type in the tier, and also the only thing that shrugs off the attacks of Moltres. Heal bell, thunderwave, and scald all provide for excellent team support moves while also allowing Lanturn to deal some damage (scald). Oh, and dat slow volt switch. :naughty:

    My personal favorite is Manectric, the most over looked electric type in the tier. Manectric is a pokemon that is often used as a revenge killer and electricity absorb-er for teams, but with some tweaks Manectric is capable of far more than that. It can be a clean up pokemon with flamethrower>overheat, thunderbolt>volt switch, and modest>timid on a choice scarf set while still revenge killing stuff such as +2 timid Omastar. Unlike its main competition Galvantula, Manectric performs well on volt switch teams because it doesn't have that crippling stealth rock weakness. Switcheroo functions like trick with a far cooler name, allowing Manectric to lure in and get around some of its usual counters (especially Lanturn).

    I've kind of monopolized this topic, so I'll leave Galvantula and Rotom-F for someone else. :toast:
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  22. EonX

    EonX The One and Only
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    Great topic as usual Molk. I'll cover all the Electric-types I have experience with using (going in order from the least experience to most experience)

    Rotom-N: Rotom-N is pretty cool in the current meta. Both of its STAB moves shit on Slowking, putting immense pressure on the opponent as Rotom can just use either of its STAB moves to hit Slowking hard, thus putting the Slowking user in a severe bind if Rotom gets in safely. Immunities to Fighting, Ground, and Normal let Rotom contribute defensively and it's pretty much the best spin blocker for any Offense team in the tier. It's relatively low base stats (compared to other Electric-types) can hurt at times, but its other qualities tend to outweigh this drawback most of the time.

    Lanturn: Lanturn is one of the best pure support Pokemon in the tier. It's one of the few support Pokemon that can actually work well on more Offensive-minded teams due to the fact it has Volt Switch. Of course, it also has a solid RestTalk set that lets it work well on more defensive-minded teams. Heal Bell and Thunder Wave are two of the best support moves in the game and Lanturn's typing is also one of the best on both defense and offense. With just 2 weaknesses to Grass- and Ground-types (the latter type is fearful of Scald) and some incredible resistances, Lanturn is very solid. It's the best check to Moltres in the tier and it's also a very sturdy Ice resist if your team struggles against Hail teams. It struggles a lot with Grass-types, but considering it works well with most Fire-types, this problem can be pretty easily rectified.

    Rotom-C: Rotom-C is probably the best all-around Electric-type in the tier atm. Great stats, solid resists, and versatility. It's one of the best Choice item users in RU, but that's not all it's limited to. It can run solid Expert Belt and ChestoRest sets and it can go more defensive with a Utility set to support its team. Perhaps Rotom-C's biggest drawback is its inability to hurt Grass-types outside of a Hidden Power, but the EBelt set can turn this into an advantage by luring Grass-types in with relative ease, only to blast them with a super effective Hidden Power. Hail is certainly a detriment to it, but it, like Lanturn, tends to work pretty well with most Fire-types anyway. Also, like its Normal Forme, Rotom-C can threaten the top Pokemon, Slowking, with both of its STABs.

    Manectric: Manectric is my personal favorite. My personal favorite set is the Expert Belt set which lets Manectric show off its fantastic coverage in RU. It has other sets as well. The EBelt set can also utilize Life Orb to get more overall power and give it a lot more power against the likes of Uxie and Clefable. A Choice Scarf set pretty much lets offensive teams hit a panic button so to speak, but the turn of the metagame to more of a Bulky Offense driven meta has done the set no favors. That said, Choice Specs Manectric is an interesting set. It can't use the coverage as effectively as EBelt or Life Orb, but the power boost really helps in the current meta. Manectric isn't the best Electric-type in the tier, but it's coverage in the current meta is really a big selling point.

    As far as dealing with Electric-types goes, I don't think just one answer on a team is enough. Every Electric-type has a different positive. Rotom-N's STABs have good neutral coverage, Lanturn's, Rotom-F's, and Rotom-C's secondary STABs hit most Ground-types for super effective damage, and both Manectric and Galvantula have coverage options for Ground-types. Grass-types alone don't work either as Galvantula's and Rotom-F's secondary STAB crushes them while Manectric typically runs Flamethrower / Overheat for coverage. Druddigon gets ruined by Rotom-F's secondary STAB, so even it can't deal with every Electric-type (and I've seen some Manectrics use HP Ice as well) That said, I'll turn to my Eagle Sparks team for differing ways to deal with Electric-types, at least 2 of which I would recommend using on almost every team. For the record, I use Golurk, Ferroseed, and Manectric on that team currently.

    Ground-types: Steelix, Golurk, and Rhydon are probably the best Ground-types in the tier. Each has a secondary typing that can help it against select Electric-types. Steelix's secondary Steel-typing allows it to comfortably take on Rotom-N and Galvantula. It also lets it take Leaf Storm and Blizzard from the Rotom Formes better than either of the other 2 Ground-types mentioned. However, that Steel typing leaves it vulnerable to Manectric's Fire-type move of choice while Specs Magneton can trap and KO it with HP Fire. Golurk has the bulk to handle Manectric better than any other Ground-type as even a super effective Hidden Power won't OHKO. It also takes both of Galvantula's STABs and Giga Drain fails to OHKO. However, all 3 Rotom Formes give it a very hard time, but all 3 also have a fairly hard time of coming in on Golurk (a combination of Shadow Punch and Fire Punch keeps all 3 at bay) It also can't come in on Lanturn recklessly (but can be EVed to outspeed Lanturn to smash it with EQ before facing a Scald) Rhydon is the shakiest out of the 3 as it can only really deal with Magneton and Rotom-N with some comfort. That said, Manectric absolutely needs HP Grass to get around it while Galvantula must run Giga Drain. Rotom-C and Rotom-F wreck it, but like with Golurk, Rhydon has moves that make both Rotom Formes think twice about coming in (Megahorn and Rock Blast / Stone Edge respectively)

    Grass-types: This is another method to handle Electric-types. In particular, most Grass-types can handle Rotom-C so long as it doesn't have EBelt. Ferroseed tops the list. It stops Lanturn cold and makes it Spikes fodder. Rotom-N is also beaten one-one-one unless it has Will-o-Wisp AND Sub as Leech Seed lets Ferroseed hold on long enough against burn while Gyro Ball will continually break Subs. Rotom-C needs HP Fire on it to have a shot one-on-one, but it can utilize Trick to cripple Ferroseed. Rotom-F has a hard time one-on-one as it loses without HP Fire as Gyro Ball hurts it bad. Manectric and Magneton crush Ferroseed though. The former benefits from Thunder Wave and roasts it with its Fire-type move of choice while the latter traps Ferroseed and just sets up all over it (or just crushes it with a Specs set)

    Volt Absorb / Lightningrod: This is the riskiest option, but it can have huge dividends. The primary users of these abilities are Electric-types themselves. Lanturn is a solid response to every Electric-type except for Rotom-C. It actually walls Rotom-F's STAB combination, something very few Pokemon can claim to do. Manectric doesn't have near enough power to get through it, though a poorly timed Thunder Wave or Volt Switch can change this. Magneton has absolutely nothing to hurt Lanturn with outside of the rare HP Grass, but even that won't do a ton. Rotom-N can test its luck, but it will often fall as Shadow Ball simply won't take out Lanturn fast enough. Even Galvantula will have a very hard time getting through Lanturn and it will often end up crippled even if it manages to get past Lanturn. Lanturn vs. Lanturn is just an endless stall match and both players generally concede Heal Bells in this matchup before both will switch out of it.
    As for Lightningrod, Manectric is the most common of those. It has the coverage to utilize the boosts, but this is extremely risky. Due to its frailty, if the Electric-type Manectric switches into doesn't use an Electric move, it likely goes down. Leaf Storm, Blizzard, Shadow Ball, and Bug Buzz are all way too strong for Manectric to deal with. Even Lanturn's Scald will 2HKO Manectric while Manectric has no chance to OHKO Lanturn with HP Grass.

    In short, the qualities of all of the Electric-types in the tier pretty much means you need at least 2 responses to have all of them checked. It's for this reason that Electric-types (and their STAB) are some of the best Pokemon in the meta right now. Sorry for the long-ish post. May have gotten too informative there lol.
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  23. ScraftyIsTheBest

    ScraftyIsTheBest GHOSTS
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    Yeah Electric-types are pretty excellent in the current RU meta, especially now that Nidoqueen is gone from the tier, which means they have a smoother time doing their jobs. I like SubSplit Rotom-N in particular, I've been using him on my offensive teams along with a Spikes Scolipede, and he makes an excellent special sweeper and spinblocker, sweeping well, maintaining Scolipede's Spikes while also making use of the Spikes to help him net more KO's easily. SubSplit Rotom can also Pain Split to heal himself from Sub and LO damage, which is pretty awesome.

    Manectric has been doing me well on VoltTurn teams, especially with Spikes+SR support, meaning he can constantly maintain momentum while revenge killing stuff like Archeops and Cinccino. Rotom-C is also a great Scarfer and also a good supportive Pokemon, definitely one of the best Electric-types, if not one of the best Pokemon overall. Leaf Storm is useful to pummel Steelix and Rhydon hard, which is pretty useful overall.

    Lanturn is imo a great pivot and a useful special tank, tanking shit like Moltres and Manectric and also supporting the team by curing status, spreading paralysis, and overall it's good. It's really weak though so keep that in mind.

    Ground-types are a good way to stop Electric-types, particularly Golurk, as he's really good. Honestly, the best way to stop Electric-types is to go for something that is immune to their moves.

    Anyways, here's some discussion I'll bring up here:

    Bug-types

    [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]

    Imo, Bug-types are pretty good in the RU metagame as of now. Bug has pretty good neutral coverage on most of the tier, and also hits three of RU's top Pokemon; Slowking, Uxie, and Sceptile for some heavy damage, while overall most of the good Bug-types have pretty solid coverage options to hit anything that resists their STAB pretty hard. Bug-types here are also great in the Spiking department; Accelgor and Scolipede both have a lot of potential on offensive teams as "speedy spikers", setting up Spikes fast while hitting solidly hard, while Crustle is bulky and also has both SR and Spikes. The other cool thing is that the "Bug Three" of spiking also fit well on offensive teams as great sweepers, Accelgor is a good all-out attacker while Scolipede and Crustle make great boosting sweepers with Swords Dance and Shell Smash, respectively, and are quite scary after the boost. Galvantula is also a really good sweeper because of its amazing coverage, Thunder+Bug Buzz is excellent, especially with dat bitch Queen gone, and keeps Slowking at the bay. Durant is also pretty cool, and Escavalier is a great wallbreaker and an overall top threat. There's also some cool options like Scyther and Pinsir, Bulky SD Scyther is great because it's really bulky and can set up easily, while Pinsir is quite the boss Moxie sweeper, although the duo do face competition from Scolipede as SD users though.

    So how do you think Bug-types do in RU atm? What do you use to deal with them? And what is your favorite Bug-type to use in RU, if you have one? Personally, I've taken a real liking to using Scolipede atm, he's a great spiker that can hit pretty damn hard, and another cool thing is that Toxic Spikes are a lot better with Queen gone, so he can run Spikes+T-Spikes set that can do pretty well if I need it. I've also run SubSalac Scolipede and it is beast. Escavalier also does pretty well for me imo as a hard hitter.
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  24. Hakumen

    Hakumen Hot grill
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    I would reback to Hail that I find deserving more discution and which broken in my opinion.

    Firstly, I want to talk about Hail in general. It is the only permanent weather in RU and so unlike OU, you don't have any weather war, meaning you're going to have this weather for all the match(unless the opponent runs a manual Sun or Rain, which is neither common/effective). So, having Snover is a big advantage. Speaking of Snover, it isn't as bad as most people think, it can wear down major weaknesses to Hail, such as fire-types like Entei, Emboar and Magmortar. They lose about 35-40%(plus the recoil for the former if it uses Flare Blitz) by leading against Snover and about 60% or (85% if SR are up) by switching on it. This means that they won't be able to take much hits and you're going to have a hard time against other members. Sure, Snover is the most useless member but it is far from useless(against Offense in any case). About main abusers, there are mostly Glaceon, Rotom-F and Jynx for Offense and Walrein for Stall. All of them are really good under Hail.

    Secondly, I would talk about Offensive Hail. There are really efficace and use one or two abuser(s). The main problem with these teams are Glaceon and Rotom-F. The former is really scary to face. The Specs is incredibly strong, being able to nearly 2HKO Slowking with Blizzard with SR, Toxic Spikes and Hail and with Shadow Ball without any hazard, its only real counter is Defensive Cryogonal which can't do something back. The Scarf is also really good, especially against Offense, it is an awesome revenge killer and is still powerful with 130 SpA. The Sub Protect works well but is outclass by Walrein which is bulkier and easier to set-up. It is especially hard to face when its checks are weaken by Snover. Rotom-F is also very scary, having acess to a STABed BoltBeam with a powerful Ice STAB named Blizzard. The Scarf is really dangerous for Offense, as it can 2HKO nearly anything, is fast, isn't countered or checked by Slowking thanks to its second STAB and gives troubles to common Hail checks like Kabutops and Moltres. As for the Sub Split, it does really well against Stall and is still efficace against Offense but not as the Scarf. Against Stall, its only real counter is Cryogonal with Hidden Power Fighting/Fire, something not great on a Stall. Against Offense, if it manages to set-up a Sub, you're in troubles and you'll have to sacrifice something most of the time to break its Sub. And like Glaceon, its counters are going to be weaken by Snover.

    Then, I will talk about defensive/balanced Hail. I find them to be the best Hail playstyle because on balanced Hail, Snover coupled with a Ice Scarfer and four defensive mons is incredibly efficace when counters to the Scarf are going to die quickly with residual damages. As for semi-stall, which uses Snover, Walrein and a defensive core, it is also really great. The main problem here is Walrein which I find to be the most broken part of Hail. It is really annoying to face especially if you have Toxic Spikes. If it comes on something which deals less than 75%, including even Sceptile, it is gonna outstall you. Once it gets a Sub, you're gonna lose to Hail and poison. Moreover, getting a sub is really easy, Specs Moltres can't even 2HKO Walrein and LO Galvantua can't OHKO it. Even Escavalier with Overcoat can be outstall by Walrein if it PPs stalls Iron Head.
    Here are some calculations using max HP/Def+ and max HP/ SDef+ :

    Show Hide
    252 SpA Life Orb Sceptile Focus Blast vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Walrein: 226-268 (53.3 - 63.2%) -- 78.52% chance to 2HKO after weather
    252 SpA Choice Specs Moltres Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Walrein: 220-261 (51.88 - 61.55%) -- 59.77% chance to 2HKO after weather
    252 SpA Life Orb Galvantula Thunder vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Walrein: 322-382 (75.94 - 90.09%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after weather
    252 SpA Manectric Volt Switch vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Walrein: 152-182 (35.84 - 42.92%) -- 3.59% chance to 3HKO after weather
    252 SpA Life Orb Lilligant Giga Drain vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Walrein: 218-260 (51.41 - 61.32%) -- 51.56% chance to 2HKO after weather
    252+ SpA Choice Specs Magneton Thunderbolt vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Walrein: 372-440 (87.73 - 103.77%) -- 25% chance to OHKO
    252 SpA Life Orb Rotom Thunderbolt vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Walrein: 252-299 (59.43 - 70.51%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
    252+ Atk Choice Band Entei Stone Edge vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Walrein: 254-300 (59.9 - 70.75%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after weather
    252+ Atk Life Orb Kabutops Stone Edge vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Walrein: 330-393 (77.83 - 92.68%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after weather
    252+ Atk Gallade Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Walrein: 324-384 (76.41 - 90.56%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after weather
    252+ Atk Choice Band Escavalier Megahorn vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Walrein: 255-301 (60.14 - 70.99%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after weather
    252 Atk Life Orb Electivire Wild Charge vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Walrein: 283-338 (66.74 - 79.71%) -- guaranteed 2HKO


    TL;DR: Hail is broken because Glaceon and Rotom-F are incredibly powerful and only have one counter, Defensive Cryogonal which can't do something back and their checks are going to die quickly to Hail residual damages and the fact that Snover can wear down them. Walrein is even more broken because it can outstall anything which does less than 75%, something too common. So I believe Hail should be suspected again or at very least Walrein/Ice Body should.
    Double01 likes this.
  25. Worldtour

    Worldtour aka Swamp-Rocket
    is a Site Staff Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus

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    Emboar @ Choice Scarf
    4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
    Jolly Nature
    - Flare Blitz
    - Superpower
    - Wild Charge
    - Sleep Talk

    I want to talk about Choice Scarf Emboar a bit, because its seriously pretty amazing at the moment, and is my go-to cleaner and Choice Scarf user at the moment. The list of Pokemon it can revenge kill in RU with only its STABs is astouding: Sceptile, Spiritomb, Cinccino, Sigilyph, Amoonguss, Gallade, Clefable, Galvantula, non-Unburden Hitmonlee, Cryogonal, Tangrowth, Magmortar, Absol, non-Choice Scarf Rotom-Mow, Accelgor (even though its slower, Accelgor can't do anything back to it), Aggron, non-Choice Scarf Manectric, Hitmonchan, Rotom, Durant, Lilligant, Escavalier, Archeops, Magneton, Electivire, Ferroseed, Typhlosion, Scyther, Crawdaunt, Whimsicott, anything from a Hail team, Klinklang, and more rare threats such as non-Scarf Rotom-F, Tauros, Miltank, Zangoose, Jynx, Scolipede, Gardevoir, Pinsir, Roselia, and Kangaskhan. That's a lot of Pokemon, considering all them take 80% damage or more (usually they get OHKOed), and I listed nearly half the metagame. It also works well as a Sleep Absorber because of how much damage it does to Grass-types and Jynx, along with outspeeding and destroying Smeargle, while Wild Charge takes care of Water-types. I've occasionally used Earthquake to get past Pokemon Superpower does damage to, such as Typhlosion, while not needing to worry about the stat drops in case I have another sleep absorber, but this isn't often.

    One of the best things about Emboar is how much it provides for the team in one set. Because Emboar is already so strong, it can finish off a weakened team, even if it has resists, just by repeatedly using Flare Blitz - almost everything in the game takes over 50% from it, and the fast offensive Pokemon are usually killed outright even if they aren't weak to the move, eliminating the need for a similar Pokemon that is fast and holding a Life Orb or something. To compare it to Aerodactyl power-wise, using Scolipede (poor Scolipede) as an example:

    252 Atk Life Orb Aerodactyl Stone Edge vs 0 HP/0 Def Scolipede: 155.17% - 182.76% (Guaranteed OHKO)
    252 Atk Emboar Flare Blitz vs 0 HP/0 Def Scolipede: 159.77% - 188.51% (Guaranteed OHKO)

    So now you already have a fast cleaner purely because of its high base power moves and high attack stat, and it's moves also won't miss at those crucial moments due to its perfect accuracy. You already have a good revenge killer in this form because it revenge kills (practically outright kills) half the metagame with its coverage and neutrality to Stealth Rock. You got your Sleep Absorber too, an essential in today's Metagame. You also have a Fire-type Pokemon and a Fighting-type Pokemon, two of the most dangerous offensive types in RU. Furthermore, said Fire-type doesn't need Rapid Spin support as much as others! It also can deal with Hail teams relatively well, although it speed ties with Choice Scarf Glaceon, Walrein can take a Flare Blitz no problem (not a Superpower though, which does ~75% to the bulkiest of Walrein), and most Hail teams carry a Fire and Fighting resist. Now you probably need spend another one of your teamslots dealing with annoying bulky Waters such as Slowking, Qwilfish, Alomomola, and Poliwrath, which are the best switch-ins to Emboar typically unless it predicts and uses Wild Chrage, but Emboar's Choice Scarf set is nearly multipurpose, and is, at least in my opinion, the best Choice Scarf user in the metagame - yes, even better than Rotom-C - and with Qwilfish having the potential to move up, it may just get better next month...

    EDIT: I ninja'd a topic somewhat wtf
    Double01 likes this.

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