I feel a bit like I'm beating a dead horse here, but whatever. It lets me make my own points on Honchkrow.
the thing about honchkrow (unlike many other pokemon) is that when building a team one of the first things that come into your mind (especially offensive team) is you need a honchkrow counter or at least a plan on how you will take on honchkrow because honchkrow is so dominant.
This is false. My last team had no direct way to deal with Honchkrow and was not built with Honchkrow in mind, yet it still made #25 on the rankings board. I'm sure mine isn't the only one.
Also, other Pokemon/strategies can do this too. If you lack a bulky Fire resist, your team will get shredded by Moltres. If you don't have a Blizzard absorber, Hail teams will run you through.
You have to leave a spot open on your team just to deal with honchkrow such as klinklang or rotom. I don't think any other pokemon cause you to make a spot just to counter a certain pokemon.
The thing is you don't
have to leave a spot open to deal with Honchkrow. Did you read Honko's post at all or are you just ignoring everything he said?
Honko said:
And if you don't want to use a slow Pokemon like Regirock or Stunfisk or Steelix because you're determined that heavy offense is the only true playstyle, then ffs put Substitute on something. Getting swept by a Pokemon with base 71 Speed because you're too stubborn to carry anything that would get around Sucker Punch is just embarrassing. Some good offensive Pokemon that are faster than Honchkrow and use Substitute effectively: Rotom, Moltres (offensive SubRoost is excellent and more people should use it), Hitmonchan, Hitmonlee, Gallade, Sceptile, etc.
If you don't want to run a Honchkrow counter,
use Substitute on something that's faster than it. Or just play around it by predicting and switching carefully. It's not even difficult. At all.
As said before Honchkrow brakes sweeps and can sweep itself.
So can Entei. So can Hitmonlee. So can Gallade. So can Kabutops. So can Feraligatr. So can Sharpedo. So can freaking
Carracosta. And so on and so forth.
Also, breaks > brakes. Honchkrow is not a car.
Although they are predictable every once in a while you will come across a mix crow that will completely destroy your team.
"Although Entei is easily predicted, every once in a while you will come across a SubCM Entei that will completely destroy your team."
"Although Gallade usually runs a Bulk Up set, every so often a Swords Dance sweeper will come along and sweep your team aside."
"Although Slowking is usually a defensive Pokemon, every so often a Trick Room sweeper will come along and annhilate half your team without reply."
"Although Rhydon is usually a bulky attacker, sometimes a Rock Polish or Double Dance sweeper will come up and kill you."
And so on.
This argument basically boils down to "because Honchkrow doesn't always run the same set and thus doesn't have the exact same counters every time, it deserves to be banned." Newsflash: this goes for every major threat in RU, or in any teir for that matter. Hell, it goes for most Pokemon in general.
That's why I stand by my decision of banning honchkrow. It's one of the few pokes that you have to compensate at least one team members so you can counter Honchkrow.
See above.
I wouldnt say u need a hard counter like u do for Honchkrow because Braviary is most likely scarfed and has to lock it self into a move while Swellow is easily revenged killed (Quick Attack can kill weak revengers but still.) besides Honchkrow is much more dangerous because of Moxie and the ability to run a mix set (again not very common at all but still viable)
He didn't say you needed a hard counter, just a switch-in, meaning a Flying resist.
Nails said:
if you don't run a honchkrow switch in you also lose to swellow, braviary, and every other bird. you need a flying resist on your team anyways. hochkrow is just more common because it has utility outside of brave bird spam (Sucker punch).
I don't see the words "hard" or "counter" anywhere in this post.
Tbh, Honchkrow has three major selling points: Sucker Punch, Moxie, and the ability to wallbreak. Moxie is unreliable and doesn't let it get around its hard counters, not to mention illegal with all of Honchkrow's wallbreaking options (Hidden Power Grass sucks, HP Fire is worse). Sucker Punch is negated by Substitute, faster priority, and skillful prediction, not to mention that it is the least reliable Priority move bar none because it fails if your opponent isn't attacking you. Phazing, status moves, and switch all fly under its radar. The wallbreaker set is about as fast as a runaway shopping cart and intensely vulnerable to both status and faster Pokemon.
Honchkrow has not one, but
two hard counters for
all its sets; Stunfisk and Regirock, and they're not just counters to Honchkrow but several other threats as well. It's also slow and frail. Sucker Punch doesn't negate its pathetic speed stat; it's simply a patch job, and a rather shoddy one at that. If it were faster or bulkier, it might be broken. As it is, it's simply a dangerous Pokemon which you should consider when building a team, just like a dozen+ others.