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Metagame NP: SM RU Stage 0 (Beta): Green Light (Talonflame Banned)

Discussion in 'SM RarelyUsed' started by atomicllamas, Mar 10, 2017.

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  1. ChrystalFalchion

    ChrystalFalchion
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    Since we're set sharing:

    [​IMG]
    Drampa @ Choice Specs / Life Orb
    Ability: Berserk
    EVs: 140 HP / 252 SpA / 116 Spe
    Modest Nature
    IVs: 0 Atk
    - Hyper Voice
    - Draco Meteor
    - Fire Blast
    - Surf / Roost

    This thing hits insanely hard. Choice Specs coupled with massive Special Attack let it 2HKO most of RU. Hyper Voice is the reliable STAB, good to spam if you're not sure what's coming in. Draco Meteor is the powerful STAB, Dealing massive damage to anything that doesn't resist it. Fire Blast is Drampa's niche over Draglage - it OHKOes Assault Vest Escavalier and 2HKOes Registeel. Surf 2HKOes Diancie, the only Pokemon to resist Drampa's STABs and Fire Blast in the tier. Roost can be used with a Life Orb to heal off recoil and stay healthy for longer. The EVs let you outrun uninvested Registeel with max Special Attack and the rest in HP for bulk. Choice Specs is often the better item - due to Drampa's low Speed, it's often forced out after a kill anyway. Calcs:

    252+ SpA Choice Specs Drampa Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 232+ SpD Registeel: 222-262 (60.9 - 71.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
    252+ SpA Choice Specs Drampa Hyper Voice vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Florges: 171-202 (47.5 - 56.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
    252+ SpA Choice Specs Drampa Surf vs. 252 HP / 220+ SpD Diancie: 182-216 (59.8 - 71%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
    252+ SpA Choice Specs Drampa Draco Meteor vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Gigalith in Sand: 199-235 (53.2 - 62.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

    [​IMG]

    Cloyster @ Waterium Z
    Ability: Skill Link
    EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
    Adamant Nature / Jolly Nature
    - Shell Smash
    - Razor Shell
    - Rock Blast
    - Icicle Spear

    Hydro Vortex lets Cloyster break through stuff like Escavalier and with some prior damage Registeel. Other than that, same set it's been running since Gen 5. Adamant nature's usually best, unless you need to outrun Scarf Heliolisk (people stop using that set, Specs and Life Orb are way better).

    [​IMG]
    Rhyperior @ Leftovers
    Ability: Solid Rock
    EVs: 172 HP / 252 Atk / 84 Spe
    Adamant Nature
    - Stealth Rock
    - Earthquake
    - Stone Edge
    - Ice Punch / Megahorn

    I needed a Stealth Rock setter with bulk and power, so I decided to use Rhyperior and it's worked surprisingly well. Stealth Rock is mandatory on pretty much any team - the extra chip damage can help wallbreakers and sweepers get more KOs, and it breaks Focus Sashes and Sturdies. Earthquake is the reliable STAB, hitting everything that doesn't resist it pretty hard. Stone Edge is the secondary STAB. It's chosen over Rock Blast as even factoring in accuracy, it's still more reliable. Ice Punch OHKOes Flygon and with some prior damage Virizion. You could also run Megahorn if you want to hit Uxie and Slowbro hard, and score a strong neutral hit on Bronzong. Fire Punch is another option; it retains coverage on Grass types and hits Bronzong hard. The EVs give you enough Speed to outrun uninvested base 50s, with max Attack for optimum power and the rest in HP for bulk. You could also run 252 HP / 172 Atk / 84 Spe if you want more bulk.
    Last edited: Mar 20, 2017
    Gorechomp, Fizz, Patrick1088 and 5 others like this.
  2. Patrick1088

    Patrick1088

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    A lot of posts on cool sets/mons. I could jump the hype train (Palossand/Umbreon core), but would rather discuss common playstyles.

    Seeing more Toxic Spikes + Shaymin combo. Premier Rapid spinners/defogger are Donphan, Gligar, Dhelmise (?) And Blastoise. Shaymin is able to hit hard with LO Seed Flare for potential drop, thus making it easier to KO normal checks like Dhel and Gligar.

    I am liking this meta overall
    Stacy Ritter likes this.
  3. -Tsunami-

    -Tsunami- VoD Leader Metabeast
    is a Community Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Team Rater Alumnusis a Smogon Social Media Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Past SPL Championis the 2nd Smogon Classic Winneris a defending World Cup of Pokemon champion

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    Hello friends...RU KING METABEAST is back once again to grace the RU community with more brilliant innovation. Ever since we banned Lucario, I've been trying to build a team around one of my trademark Pokemon: Linoone.

    [​IMG]
    bop swept (Linoone) (M) @ Figy Berry
    Ability: Gluttony
    EVs: 148 HP / 252 Atk / 108 Spe
    Adamant Nature
    - Belly Drum
    - Extreme Speed
    - Seed Bomb
    - Shadow Claw

    After a Belly Drum, Linoone can tear most of the tier to shreds, with the exception of some steels and super fat physical walls such as Gligar. The introduction of the new 50% berries makes Linoone better than it was before, as the added 25% when compared to Sitrus Berry really helps it set up against many more things. Shadow Claw and Seed Bomb are superb coverage options in this metagame, letting Linoone wreck many would-be counters. I decided to make a team that centered around wearing down various threats with Toxic and entry hazards; the team consists of Cresselia / Chesnaught / Zoroark / Comfey / Registeel / Linoone. This team is able to easily wear down the opposition; Rocky Helmet Chesnaught, for example, played a huge role in the team's success, as it was able to successfully weaken Escavalier into Shadow Claw range and consistently set up Spikes. Outside of wearing down its checks, the #1 thing Linoone needs is a set-up opportunity. Enter one of RU's best Pokemon, which is definitely underutilized atm: Zoroark.

    [​IMG]
    Zoroark (M) @ Life Orb
    Ability: Illusion
    EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
    Naive Nature
    - Extrasensory
    - Knock Off
    - Sucker Punch
    - Memento

    Zoroark is a great Pokemon in this metagame, and pairs excellently with Linoone. Illusion works especially well with Linoone due to how threatening the prospect of the latter setting up a Belly Drum is; this forces many people to stay in against Zoroark when they otherwise would not. Extrasensory works very well in tandem with Linoone, as it does a great deal of damage to one of Linoone's biggest counters in Bewear. Zoroark is a great Pokemon even without Illusion, and the opponent will often be hard-pressed to switch into it if hazards are up. As I'm sure you've noticed by now, this set is hard walled by Fairy-types, but that's simply part of the trap. Memento turns all of the fairies in this tier into complete set-up fodder for Linoone (with the exception of Gardevoir who can't take Sucker Punch or Knock Off), and lets Linoone set up on a plethora of other threats such as Donphan and Nidoqueen. This core functions very well together, and even let me accomplish the extraordinary feat of getting #1 on the RU Ladder!!!! lol jk who cares about that LOLO
    -
    That aside, I hope that this core inspires the players of this metagame to try Linoone out for themselves, as it is an underrated threat in my opinion. Oh, and Zoroark's amazing obviously.
    Last edited: Mar 22, 2017
    Plasmagby, eifo, Ranger Mike and 16 others like this.
  4. Venoxio

    Venoxio

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    I just want to talk about a certain mon that shined in OU Pre-bank, or at least I used it a lot. Maybe it'll be viable in RU this gen?

    [​IMG]
    While Raichu-A may seem outclassed as an offensive Electric type by things like Heliolisk and Rotom-H, and as a Psychic type by Necrozma, there are some things that allow it to shine in RU. Its speed tier is great and outpaces a lot of the meta, as most of the notable threats listed in the above posts in RU are fairly slow/only have all right speed tiers. Psychic STAB is also interesting and allows Raichu-A to take out things like Nidoqueen as well as two of the notable dragons in the tier. Damage output not enough for you? It has two ways to boost its decent Special Attack in Calm Mind and Nasty Plot, with the former even boosting its OK special defense to very decent levels after a boost, and the other just allowing it to sweep straightaway, boosting Raichu's special attack to frightening levels. Not to mention it gets all the right coverage to deal with its checks. Grass Knot, Surf, and Focus Blast are all great options that hit formidable checks to its STABs, most notably Dark and Ground types, and it can generally handle these with ease once it has a CM/NP boost under its belt. While this isn't the best Electric or Psychic mon by any means, it can still function well and is underrated imo.
    Last edited: Mar 22, 2017
  5. Rennyjesus

    Rennyjesus

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    I would also add Encore, since its dual STAB has pretty good neutral coverage in RU meta (sure, it misses a bunch of things like Magneton, Exeggutor, Shiftry, Alo Duggy and Guzzlord to mention some, but they are not like the best pokemon RN) and Encore + NP is a really easy to use combination, thanks to that pretty decent base 110 speed!

    Just my two cents!
  6. spookysocialist

    spookysocialist formerly urbestfriend

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    Necrozma should be under offensive rocker, rocks + 3 attacks is about as viable as defensive rocker. You don't have nidoqueen, perhaps the most common mon in the tier listed under offensive rockers or tspikes. Dhelmise and donphan should be under offensive spinners, neither one of them are viable defensive mons and function more as bulky attackers. And I really don't think weezing could be considered viable at all right now unless you have both a desperate need for t spikes and a check to scarfcross. Espeon should be listed under hazard control.
  7. DTC

    DTC
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    A few users are working on an 'official' role compendium rn, so this discussion should probably wait until that is done.
  8. Plaguetank

    Plaguetank

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    Necrozma is nearly both: an offensive and a defensive rocker. His ability Prism Armor and good Def allows him to stay save on the field even the enemy use a coverage or even STAB move like Knock Off or Shadow Claw and easily lay rocks. With Moon Light and Thunder Wave he can make pressure and stay very long on the field, also he creates Speed Control for the team. And if you think thats all, he also can use a good offensive move pool and his good SpA to make pressure at his main foe Spinners like Dhelmise or other offensive Mons. In all battles when my Necrozma had to face Donphan, Dhelmise or other Spinners, he always was victorious. Moonlight, Thunder Wave and Psychic easily wipe them away.

    Really...I don't know what I should think about Necrozma. He is really bulky and it's difficult to get rid of him before he can make permanent damage to the enemy team. No other Pokemon in my team survives so long like Necrozma...
  9. atomicllamas

    atomicllamas look who's diggin their own grave, that is what they all say
    is a member of the Site Staffis a Super Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a defending SPL Champion
    RU Leader

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    The RU council had its second quickban vote for RU beta. Thank you to the rotating council (Ajna, barton, Hot N Cold, and TheWall ) for voting.

    Bewear, Tornadus, and Feraligatr are banned from the RU tier.

    votes for the second suspect round (open)

    [​IMG]
    I did not vote because I did not feel I had played enough games since the last round to get an accurate view (work + travel) same for Meru.


    Bewear reasoning (open)

    With incredible bulk and attack, Bewear has proven to be too much for the tier. It's bulk (thanks to Fluffy) makes it threatening to offense as not even Super Effective STAB physical moves can KO Bewear, but when powered up with a Choice Band it can heaviliy dent the oppsoing team. It also has a great coverage option in Shadow Claw and Ice Punch, which allows it to get past its usual checks: Doublade, Cresselia, and Gligar. Moreover, Swords Dance sets are a nightmare for bulkier teams to face, as it can OHKO almost everything after a single SD.


    Tornadus reasoning (open)

    Tornadus was banned due to its incredible wallbreaking potential that made it nearly impossible to counter. With every coverage move it could possibly want, and with the ability to run special, mixed, physical, and z sets, Tornadus was capable of adapting and overcoming every check. In addition, Tornadus's amazing Speed stat allowed it to perform consistently vs offensive teams, and its access to priority Tailwind and Rain Dance made it an excellent team player in every matchup. To put it simply, Tornadus is too versatile and powerful for how fast it is.


    Feraligatr reasoning (open)

    Feraligatr was banned for its ability to run through teams with its Dragon Dance set, which has the capability to break through Water-types and physical walls such as Chesnaught with its coverage moves alone. Its pure Water typing and bulk gave it plenty of opportunities to set up. Its ability to double up as both a wallbreaker and sweeper proved too overbearing for the current RU metagame.


    tagging The Immortal so these can be removed from the RU ladder. Thanks in advance, it is much appreciated!
    Arifeen, Gorechomp, EonX and 45 others like this.
  10. Marrrrrrrrrr

    Marrrrrrrrrr

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    It looks like Pangoro's going to get better with the banning of its main competition, Bewear. IMO the main thing that separates Pangoro and Bewear is the fact that Pangoro has nice Dark type STAB. This time around though, I can't see Parting Shot being that worthwhile, I think the most viable moveset would be Hammer Arm/Knock Off/Ice Punch/Bullet Punch (without Ice Punch Pangoro struggles against Gligar and Venusaur, and without Bullet Punch it struggles against Florges). Parting Shot is also something that not's exclusive to Pangoro anymore (though admittedly the only good one is Type: Null, Alolan Persian and the Silvally forms aren't that great though they may get more viable in the future as people experiment with the Silvally types). The set of Hammer Arm/Knock Off/Ice Punch/Bullet Punch hits pretty much everything in the tier with a Choice Band equipped. It's now Pangoro's time to shine, and keep in mind that it was banned from RU last gen, so who know's how it'll turn out.

    Also Cloyster, an already good Pokemon, has gotten a little better with the banning of its competition (Feraligatr) though since it was already good I doubt it'll change much. BTW has anyone tried Spikes Cloyster, and if so how good is it?
  11. Master B8s

    Master B8s

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    Wouldn't pangoro be better off with gunk shot over BP? Yeah priority seems nice but like donphan, it isn't stab so it is pretty weak. Also, Poision/Dark/fighting gives it great neutral coverage that only gets resisted by Toxicroak (not sure if that rose to UU or not so bear with me). If we're going off the Choice band set, I just don't see unstab priority being locked into good at all, I see being able to nail fairies on the switch better than potentially letting threats come in and set up on BP locked Pangoro.
  12. wishes

    wishes daddyzgirl
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    [​IMG]
    dreamer | leftovers | snow warning
    252 hp / 4 def / 252 spd | calm
    protect | leech seed | giga drain | blizzard

    been messing around lately playing ru and found this set to be insanely fun to use. snow warning + leech seed is a sick combo and it takes off ~18% of the opponent every turn and heals abomasnow! plus, giga drain. this is just a set from dpp but it's still pretty solid as it can check the majority of water-types and threatens out special attackers which can't break through it such as espeon. abomasnow's typing is really shitty, so i've been using it in conjunction with qwilfish which can set toxic spikes to wear down the opponent even further while covering the majority of its weaknesses, along with cleric audino to help cushion special attacks and pass it nice wishes + heal bell. while it's not very powerful due to no investment, blizzard really isn't a slough in terms of power since it's got such a high base power and it also never misses. it does as much as it needs to so i've found. abomasnow's not super amazing though, and it requires lots of support to be effective and it absolutely hates when it can't get a leech seed up, but i've been messing around with this set and have it to be very fun!

    this metagame in general is a ton of fun from my limited experience. been enjoying seeing some fresh faces to ru and i feel as if there's a lot of room to experiment being as the metagame is so diverse and so new. like i've been trying out musharna of all things and it's just been super fun. hopefully ru can keep on improving and become even more fun!
  13. ChrystalFalchion

    ChrystalFalchion
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    Not surprised at all to be honest. I was actually going to bring up torn and aligatr. Stuff that lost competition:

    Moltres: Now the strongest Flying type, STAB fire blast lets it smash straight through Registeel something not much in the tier can do. Z Solar Beam lets it destroy bulky waters.

    Pangoro: Marrr already summed that up, although even with Iron Fist Bullet Punch is too weak. IMO it should run Knock Off, Hammer Arm, Ice Punch, Gunk Shot/Poison Jab.

    Cloyster: As a Water type physical sweeper its among the best now Feraligatr is gone. It's Shell Smash set is just as good as ever, maybe even better with Waterium Z Razor Shell. Stop running Focus Sash its not a suicide lead.

    Edit: I tried Pangoro. Honestly, it was completely underwhming. Compared to Heracross, it's slower, frailer and has arguably worse defensive typing. Gunk Shot to one shot Fairies is nice, but Flame Orb Heracross is a much better wallbreaker IMO.
    Last edited: Mar 25, 2017
  14. Miyami~~

    Miyami~~

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    [​IMG]
    Snorlax @ Leftovers
    Ability: Thick Fat
    EVs: 188 HP / 144 Def / 176 SpD
    Careful Nature
    - Curse
    - Return / Body Slam
    - Rest
    - Sleep Talk / Earthquake

    I'm sure you've all faced this at least once. Curselax is quite possibly the best defensive wincon in the tier. Normal isn't a great typing, but Thick Fat provides it with key resistances to Fire and Ice, which are some of the better offensive types in the tier. Additionally, it's sky-high 160 HP (Almost as high as Mola) alongside a solid 110 Special Defence let it eat hits, and while its Defence stat in't great, it can boost it, and the massive HP can someone alleviate it:

    252 Atk Heracross Close Combat vs. +1 188 HP / 144 Def Snorlax: 300-354 (59 - 69.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery (Scarfcross)
    252+ Atk Choice Band Heracross Close Combat vs. +1 188 HP / 144 Def Snorlax: 488-576 (96 - 113.3%) -- 75% chance to OHKO
    252+ Atk Choice Band Heracross Close Combat vs. +2 188 HP / 144 Def Snorlax: 368-434 (72.4 - 85.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

    After just 1 boost you're living Close Combats from the best fighting type in the tier, and after two you're living quite comfortably. Snorlax can use the massive bulk, rest, and maybe even Sleep Talk if you want to forgo coverage, though Earthquake is a really good option to take care of those pesky steel types you can't outlast with rest + your absurd bulk. Once you get a few boosts under your belt, you start OHKOing or 2HKOing a lot of things neutrally. Snorlax is really good and every team needs to be prepared for it
  15. Froggyboy

    Froggyboy

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    [​IMG]
    Dodrio @ Flyinium Z
    Ability: Early Bird
    EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
    Jolly Nature
    - Swords Dance
    - Return
    - Brave Bird
    - Quick Attack

    Since we're sharing sets, might as well share this bad boy. Dodrio saw some buffs coming into S&M, so I decided to build a team around it and so far it's been pretty cool. 110 Attack along with strong stabs like Brave Bird and Return are very hard to switch into, coupled with Swords Dance and Quick Attack, it can be a difficult Pokemon to revenge kill. Though it still finds itself needs a bit more power to help break through some physical walls, so I decided to include Flyinium Z to help power up that Brave Bird even further.

    +2 252 Atk Dodrio Supersonic Skystrike (190 BP) vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Gligar: 256-303 (76.8 - 90.9%) -- 25% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock <- cant touch you without toxic
    +2 252 Atk Dodrio Supersonic Skystrike (190 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Slowbro: 372-438 (94.4 - 111.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
    +2 252 Atk Dodrio Supersonic Skystrike (190 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Necrozma: 393-463 (98.7 - 116.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
    +2 252 Atk Dodrio Supersonic Skystrike (190 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Donphan: 349-412 (90.8 - 107.2%) -- 81.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock <- not really good but hey

    http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7rubeta-552507072
    Even got a replay of Dodrio saving my butt from a Ribombee sweep and cleaning up for the win, though it also showed just how good Milotic is, walling my opponent's team and being a huge nuisance.
    Cheryl. likes this.
  16. spookysocialist

    spookysocialist formerly urbestfriend

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    Is there a reason to run return over jump kick on that set? Jump Kick lets you get past things like gigalith and steelvally, and the only thing you lose coverage against are electrics types, and only rotom-h is really bulky enough to take you on.
  17. guan123

    guan123

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    Stall has gotten quite a bit better now that so many of the best wallbreakers are gone. I'm just wondering what are good pokemon for stall (besides pyukumuku and mantine).
  18. icameron

    icameron

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    I believe your forum avatar, Gligar, is a very standard inclusion. It's a reliable hazard removal very resistant to hazards itself, and can be tweaked to beat things 1v1 that usually heavily threaten stall teams, such as Salazzle (earthquake with full sdef) or GutsOrb SD Heracross (acrobatics with full physdef). It also has access to Knock Off, which has great utility on any team; in the case of stall it can help reduce damage from Choice items or Life Orb, or reduce recovery by removing Leftovers. If you play defog Mantine, you can also run Immunity (illegal with defog) with rocks or even a stallbreaker set. Stall can drop u-turn, a standard move for Gligar on less passive teams, to make room for the other moves.

    Cresselia and Porygon2 are good for being incredibly bulky mixed walls with the former also featuring as a possible win condition with Calm Mind.

    A magic bouncer, either Espeon or Xatu, have featured in both sample full stall teams as a counter to taunt as well as help keep entry hazards to a minimum alongside a defogger. A CM set on either can work as a wincon.

    Anti status is mandatory, with Florges and Umbreon as the popular choices, because they have great bulk, a STAB move to threaten opponents with (Moonblast and Foul Play, respectively), and can also offer Wish support.

    Registeel or Bronzong are bulky steel types who offer a tonne of resistances for your team, and function best with wish support. Curse Registeel is a possibility but I gather that a simple stealth rock set is preferred.

    Other wincons for stall include Curse Snorlax, CM Reuniclus (I'm a fan of Z-Thunder), and simply wearing the opponent down with regular stall tactics.

    Edit: I also think Gigalith a reasonable inclusion for its ability to comfortably beat any Salazzle set as long as it stays healthy, as well as providing passive sand damage to help wear opponents down. The sand will hit some of your own pokemon as well, but you can minimise that by including Ground and Steel types, and/or a Reuniclus.
    Last edited: Mar 26, 2017
  19. Hot N Cold

    Hot N Cold
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    I have been running this Talonflame set for now and its been my favourite one.
    [​IMG]
    Talonflame @ Flyinium Z
    Ability: Flame Body / Gale Wings
    EVs: 128 HP / 252 Atk / 128 Spe
    Jolly Nature
    - Swords Dance
    - Brave Bird
    - Roost
    - Taunt

    Its mono attacker Taunt SD (aka offensive stallbreaker), so powerful as standard Sword Dance Talonflame set but more utility as well against more stallish and balance teams, you don't need Flare Blitz at all since you'll beat Escavalier, Registeel (setup fodder) and Doublade its easy to wear down plus you can burn with Flame Body. I'm using some Evs on HP to tank better certain mons and stall them out, is not necessary to run max Speed, so its enough to outrun base +110 (Froslass, Espeon).

    You can also run Gale Wings as I did but Flame Body its more reliable for this versatile set on a balance team, usually this set asks you to run Flame Body tho
    Last edited: Mar 26, 2017
  20. ChrystalFalchion

    ChrystalFalchion
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    On the subject of stallbreakers:

    [​IMG]
    Salazzle @ Black Sludge / Life Orb
    Ability: Corrosion
    EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
    Timid Nature
    - Toxic
    - Taunt
    - Venoshock
    - Flamethrower / Fire Blast

    Toxic puts any wall on a timer, and thanks to Corrosion you can cripple Poison and Steel types like Registeel and defensive Venusaur. Taunt shuts down defensive Pokémon, and stops others from setting up. Venoshock hits incredibly hard if the foe is Poisoned. Flamethrower is a reliable STAB that roasts the Steel types immune to Venoshock. Fire Blast is even more powerful, but has less PP and imperfect accuracy. Think of this set like Hex Gengar in OU. Generally open with Toxic, as you only have to fear Magic Bounce users. As for items, go with Black Sludge if you prefer recovery and Life Orb if you prefer power. A Toxic Plate or Flame Plate boosts one type of STAB if you want power with no recoil.
  21. Peef Rimgar

    Peef Rimgar The Destroyer
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    Yeah no man

    If you're trying to beat Steels like Registeel and Poisons like Roserade and Venusaur, why wouldn't you just Fire Blast them? Not to mention Venoshock is little more than an unreliable gimmick (especially given how many Aroma / Heal Bell users are mad common on balance) when you could be running Sludge Wave. NP / Stabs / Taunt fares much better as a stallbreaker in correct situations than this.
  22. Froggyboy

    Froggyboy

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    Never considered it. I simply ran Return because of the strong Normal STAB. I'll give it a shot though, thanks.
  23. ShatteredSummers

    ShatteredSummers

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    So much creative stuff in this tier.

    [​IMG]
    Honchkrow @ Flyinium Z
    Ability: Moxie
    EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
    Adamant Nature
    - Mirror Move
    - Sucker Punch
    - Brave Bird / Drill Peck
    - Superpower

    If you guys aren't familiar with Z-Mirror Move, it's probably the most broken Z-status move to even exist. No joke.
    It gives the user a +2 Atk boost, THEN copies the opponent's last attack by turning it into a Z-attack.

    Given the right circumstances, you could easily KO the opponent with Mirror Move off the +2 boost, activate Moxie, and give Honchkrow another +1, for a total of +3 Atk in a single turn.

    Then proceed to sweep for days.



    And a couple more observations.

    1. Feraligatr has moved to BL2, and is unusable in RU now.
    [​IMG] rip in peace

    2. Nobody noticed that Slurpuff is in the RU tier?
    [​IMG]

    I remember this thing being based god of Gen 6 UU with its Unburden / Belly Drum set. Kinda surprising that I haven't been seeing more of it.
    Gorechomp and MaahirMomtaz12 like this.
  24. Rider

    Rider formerly Ryoma Nagare
    is a Tiering Contributor

    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2015
    Messages:
    704
    Problem with Z-mirror move is that you'd require to be faster than your opponent, and due to Honchrkrow's middling speed, I don't see how that would really be possible versus something like offense. Risking one turn of set up also means your opponent could take the chance to KO you, which isn't hard due to krow's speed and poor defenses. I'm not trying to say Flynium-Z is a bad option as a whole, Z-Brave Bird is a great way to get some early kills and get Moxie boosts. I personally think a much better (and by this I mean actually useful) option would be Pursuit, which can allow you to get picks (therefore, more moxie boosts) from mons that fear getting finished off by sucker punch and therefore switch it to some sort of defensive krow check, which could likely be overwhelmed by a Moxie boost.


    RE: Slurpuff. The biggest problem with Slurpuff is the presence of Doublade, which stops Belly Drum puff right on its tracks. Reason slurpuff was banned until it dropped on late-ish oras (doublade had risen to uu last year) is because it had the right coverage to smash through pretty much every mon with its coverage options unless you run a fat poison like Weezing or Garbodor. I guess another big factor of slurpuff's rarity is the more offensive nature (in my eyes, at least).

    Well, since currently the status quo is setpoisting itt, I might as well.

    [​IMG]
    BIRTHDAY (Drapion) @ Waterium Z
    Ability: Sniper
    EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
    Jolly Nature
    - Swords Dance
    - Knock Off
    - Poison Jab
    - Aqua Tail

    SD Drapion has been pretty cool in ORAS as an early game breaker, so figured it would be pretty cool to try out. With Z-Moves out, and the fact that they make for pretty good lures, I decided I might as well try something on Drap to help it break through something. Aqua Tail was my choice, since it would allow me to lure in Gligar and Donphan, arguably the two popular method of hazard removal in the metagame (if my opp's remover is something like Mantine and Dhelmise, they both crumble to knock off, provided mantine doesn't get a Scald off). Basically most of my games have where I succesfully lure gligar have gone like this: They send in their rocker, I SD on the gligar switch, and dent it with z-aq. While you don't OHKO gligar off the bat, you do around 80-90%, which is quite useful since it puts Gligar at the range of rocks or a decently strong resisted move from a mate. While you can OHKO Donphan after a Swords Dance boost, Sturdy makes it a hassle in order to do so since it forces a trade-off between each other, but if you feel Drapion's utility goes beyond luring out Donphan, you could pull it off. Bonus points for wrecking other rockers like Diancie, Gigalith, and Nidoqueen plus that one idiot who thinks he can get smart with Will-O-Wisp Rotom-H.

    calcs (open)

    +2 252 Atk Drapion Hydro Vortex (175 BP) vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Gligar: 276-326 (82.8 - 97.8%) -- 68.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
    +2 252 Atk Drapion Hydro Vortex (175 BP) vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Gligar: 276-326 (82.8 - 97.8%) -- 68.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock [I think no one runs this, but just as a general idea.]
  25. Olly

    Olly

    Joined:
    Oct 30, 2013
    Messages:
    166
    You absolutely need to run Espeon on stall. Without it you basically just lose to any taunt user. Stall composition starts imo with Pyukumuku, Espeon, Umbreon, Gligar. Beyond that it depends what you are trying to do. You can run Shedinja stall, though it's not necessarily easy with all the Gigalith running around. You need something so you don't lose to Pangoro, Golbat was being used last I saw, but I've been out of the loop for a week.
    ShatteredSummers likes this.
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