I'm going to post on Xurkitree now and Buzzwole tomorrow morning after I test its SpDef Bulk Up set tonight. Will post on Latias then too but very heavily leaning no ban for Latias at the moment. I'm going to vote ban on Xurkitree because: The stall match up is incredible, saying it is good is an understatement On a related note, the power is too extreme and unlike anything UU has ever seen Regarding the argument that Xurkitree raises the skill barrier for stall and forces normal adaptations like normal offensive threats: First the poster said it makes stall more diverse and then they say it kind of invalidates full stall and makes only semi-stall viable...this is a pretty clear contradiction No amount of "skill" will let you wall a +3 Xurkitree - the only defensive switch ins are a few random AV Pokemon like AV Amoonguss and Steelix is OHKOd by +3 Grass Knot with a tiny amount of chip damage (easy because no recovery and it has to set up SR) or just a max roll Its not normal that I have to run an Ice Dragon Pokemon with no utility moves to check - not counter because Dazzling Gleam and Hypnosis - one and only one threat Even incredible stallbreakers like Haxorus and Crawdaunt have legitimate defensive counters (Forretress and Tangela/Chesnaught) - there is no such counter for Xurkitree. This is unprecedented. Regarding the idea "Why not just run Weavile / Mega Aero / Krookodile" (or a similar trapper a la Dugtrio in OU) Pursuit is less reliable than Arena Trap, especially when you're dealing with a Pokemon that can easily OHKO you if the prediction is wrong To be honest, I never thought that was a fair statement because it supposes that six walls is invalidated. I think thats unfair, if full six wall stall was viable before the drops (and it was) then why are you saying its acceptable to kill a playstyle in favor of keeping 1 Pokemon. Didn't we save drought just for the opposite reason? Regarding the argument that Xurkitree's offense match up is so poor, we should accept its good stall match up Again, this understates how good Xurkitree is against stall. TG + Gknot/HP Ice/Z Tbolt Xurkitree has no defensive counters. Stall is literally a playstyle where you counter everything. I play all styles on the ladder. Xurkitree has no defensive equivalent. I'll expand on this point below If this entire post has been TLDR, just ask yourself this one question: would you allow a Pokemon that walled 99-100% of all viable offensive threats to stay in the tier with the excuse that you could just Perish Trap / Mean Look Trap / Spirit Shackle Trap it and it had no utility moves against opposing stall? Xurkitree after one turn of set up invalidates 99-100% of viable walls in UU. To me this means Xurkitree is broken.