Could be a wifi thing... don't play on shoddy much.
I have been putting lum berry on more and more sweepers lately, even in ou. Missing some ko's is annoying sometimes, but the lum lets you set up on so much more.
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- Thread starter reachzero
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I have been putting lum berry on more and more sweepers lately, even in ou. Missing some ko's is annoying sometimes, but the lum lets you set up on so much more.
As "innovative" as this metagame is, I find myself having great success with a bog standard team. I see all these gimmicks that I used to run in past metagames being run by everybody and none of them can really handle just a solid team full of high powered UU regulars.
I run a team of Uxie/Standard Weezing/Specstile/SubPlot Maggy/RP Rhyperior/Kabutops and I'm like 15-2 over my two accounts.
I'll post the team in RMT. But RP Rhyperior sweeps so easily I think when more people start using him Rhyperior may be voted BL.
I run a team of Uxie/Standard Weezing/Specstile/SubPlot Maggy/RP Rhyperior/Kabutops and I'm like 15-2 over my two accounts.
I'll post the team in RMT. But RP Rhyperior sweeps so easily I think when more people start using him Rhyperior may be voted BL.
Yeah, a lot of the stuff that people have posted here remind me of when I used them when I first started out.
What does Uxie do against Rhyperior? Yawn?
Mesprit with GK/ Ice Beam is a better answer imo. (Just realized I answered my own question about Uxie... but not many people at all use GK on Uxie).
Mesprit with GK/ Ice Beam is a better answer imo. (Just realized I answered my own question about Uxie... but not many people at all use GK on Uxie).
Physically defensive Milotic, Blastoise, Torterra, Tangrowth, bulky Intimidate Hitmontop, and to a lesser extent Leafeon make decent switch ins to almost any Rhyperior. It is often the case of predicting the Earthquake or the Stone Edge and acting accordingly, since while the number of Pokemon that can switch in on either move and threaten him is quite small, the number that can switch in on either or and pose an immediate threat is much much greater.
Rhyperior has a very limited number of Pokemon it can switch in on itself, and so many things can revenge kill it that I have much doubt about any future BL status coming its way. Rock Polish is a mean lategame sweeper, but it is still stopped by any old bulky Water, and the lack of an attack boost means that a team needs to be significantly weakened before it has a chance to sweep. Azumarill is also a death sentence for it. And as a last means defense, you can try play around the Earthquake / Stone Edge as Life Orb wears Rhyperior down until something like Houndoom's Sucker Punch will be enough to take it out.
Rhyperior has a very limited number of Pokemon it can switch in on itself, and so many things can revenge kill it that I have much doubt about any future BL status coming its way. Rock Polish is a mean lategame sweeper, but it is still stopped by any old bulky Water, and the lack of an attack boost means that a team needs to be significantly weakened before it has a chance to sweep. Azumarill is also a death sentence for it. And as a last means defense, you can try play around the Earthquake / Stone Edge as Life Orb wears Rhyperior down until something like Houndoom's Sucker Punch will be enough to take it out.
Just want to add in a word on the sub/dd lapras... (sub in general)
If anyone has some pretty extensive testing of substitute sets, I feel I can say it's me. I use substitute on everything - it's really that great of a move. When people make complaints such as "you can't use Life Orb with Substitute" or "a good player won't let you get sub +1 DD", I'd like to say you are wrong. Wrong.
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Example:
Life Orb Sharpedo@Adamant, a combination of Crunch/Waterfall/Zen Headbutt/Earthquake/Aqua Jet. 2HKOs everything in UU except Tangrowth, Leafeon, Venusaur (Ice Fang if needed) and defensive Milotic.
Can you give up a moveslot for substitute? It would seem counterproductive to lose 25% health +10% per attack, right? Wrong. Think of it this way: Sharpedo is going to force a switch. He outspeeds most of the metagame and can threaten with a OHKO since anything you can't outspeed is pretty much beaten by Aqua Jet. By attacking off the bat, you are giving yourself a 1/4 chance of hitting their switch with a move that actually hits it hard. On a sweeper as frail as it, you can't afford to try another switch. Substitute takes away all guessing. You still get two attacks on a slowerenemy, one on a faster one, but with Sub you can be assured they will be the most powerful blows you can deal at that time. The 25% of HP means nothing.
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Example 2:
You have a Sub/DD Feraligatr, Lapras if you wish. The beauty of Substitute and speed-boosting moves is that you effectively give yourself a FREE MOVE, and Dragon Dance especially. Since originally you were slower, you were only going to have one +0 move to hit the opponent with. Now, you are subbing on a switch, gaining a free Dragon Dance, then able to hit with a +1 move or keep on setting up if the switch doesn't pose any immediate threat to you. All this with no risky prediction required. There is absolutely nothing you can do to stop it.
I mean dang it, sub creates so many free turns. I'm tempted to make a hail/toxistall team that only creates as many free turns as possible. It'd be easy. Bring in Lapras on a death of something or with it's bulk. Sub on a switch. Dragon Dance on the retaliation. Proceed to SubStall. If Articuno gets Agility you could do the same thing with Roost added to the mix. All this is theorymon'd, but this "rolfstall" that I used in LC I could actually see work quite well in UU right now.
tl;dr: Substitute takes away prediction and creates free turns. It is never counterproductive.
PS: bar encore. it can smd.
If anyone has some pretty extensive testing of substitute sets, I feel I can say it's me. I use substitute on everything - it's really that great of a move. When people make complaints such as "you can't use Life Orb with Substitute" or "a good player won't let you get sub +1 DD", I'd like to say you are wrong. Wrong.
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Example:
Life Orb Sharpedo@Adamant, a combination of Crunch/Waterfall/Zen Headbutt/Earthquake/Aqua Jet. 2HKOs everything in UU except Tangrowth, Leafeon, Venusaur (Ice Fang if needed) and defensive Milotic.
Can you give up a moveslot for substitute? It would seem counterproductive to lose 25% health +10% per attack, right? Wrong. Think of it this way: Sharpedo is going to force a switch. He outspeeds most of the metagame and can threaten with a OHKO since anything you can't outspeed is pretty much beaten by Aqua Jet. By attacking off the bat, you are giving yourself a 1/4 chance of hitting their switch with a move that actually hits it hard. On a sweeper as frail as it, you can't afford to try another switch. Substitute takes away all guessing. You still get two attacks on a slowerenemy, one on a faster one, but with Sub you can be assured they will be the most powerful blows you can deal at that time. The 25% of HP means nothing.
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Example 2:
You have a Sub/DD Feraligatr, Lapras if you wish. The beauty of Substitute and speed-boosting moves is that you effectively give yourself a FREE MOVE, and Dragon Dance especially. Since originally you were slower, you were only going to have one +0 move to hit the opponent with. Now, you are subbing on a switch, gaining a free Dragon Dance, then able to hit with a +1 move or keep on setting up if the switch doesn't pose any immediate threat to you. All this with no risky prediction required. There is absolutely nothing you can do to stop it.
I mean dang it, sub creates so many free turns. I'm tempted to make a hail/toxistall team that only creates as many free turns as possible. It'd be easy. Bring in Lapras on a death of something or with it's bulk. Sub on a switch. Dragon Dance on the retaliation. Proceed to SubStall. If Articuno gets Agility you could do the same thing with Roost added to the mix. All this is theorymon'd, but this "rolfstall" that I used in LC I could actually see work quite well in UU right now.
tl;dr: Substitute takes away prediction and creates free turns. It is never counterproductive.
PS: bar encore. it can smd.
Problem with the psychics and grass types is Megahorn. Banded megahorn takes a enormous chunk out of them. And the sub set 2hkos tangrowth doesn't it (can't remember... I don't uset he evs from the OU subperior in the analysis)
Oh I don't think its broken just trying to think of stuff than can switch in on the damn thing...
Oh I don't think its broken just trying to think of stuff than can switch in on the damn thing...
Well maybe not BL status, but it is definitely the most fearsome offensive threat in the meta. I think the RP set is undeniably solid and will eventually when things settle down a bit be used everywhere.
It will be one of those sets that everyone expects in the meta. Like SubCm missy in past metagames and guts swellow. While not quite broken, its definitely a set people need to go out of their way to defend.
It will be one of those sets that everyone expects in the meta. Like SubCm missy in past metagames and guts swellow. While not quite broken, its definitely a set people need to go out of their way to defend.
Eh, I personally like the sub set. I like Rhyperior as a way to hulk smash walls and the sub set allows you to do that without having to predict like the banded set. Rhypeior isn't going to get too many chances to come in thanks to its craptastic typing and special defense so when it comes in I want to hit something and hit something hard for super effective damage
Rhyperior is a nice case of "i have bulk, i have the strenght, i'm the He-Man!... without legs".
It's bulk and strenght lets Rhyperior to come in and dish out some pain with ease... but it's too freaking slow that it's rather easy at least to revenge kill.
You try to fix it's speed with Rock Polish... and it's still easily revengeable. And it lost some considerable power since Rhyperior is so slow it needs to be Jolly.
Sub eases prediction and has potential to KO many pokes... just like every other strong Sub user poke. And this one is sl -oh you got it-.
It's like: hi, i'm Rhyperior. I came to KO you in one sh... oh god i hate water, it's...wet.
It's bulk and strenght lets Rhyperior to come in and dish out some pain with ease... but it's too freaking slow that it's rather easy at least to revenge kill.
You try to fix it's speed with Rock Polish... and it's still easily revengeable. And it lost some considerable power since Rhyperior is so slow it needs to be Jolly.
Sub eases prediction and has potential to KO many pokes... just like every other strong Sub user poke. And this one is sl -oh you got it-.
It's like: hi, i'm Rhyperior. I came to KO you in one sh... oh god i hate water, it's...wet.
I remember somebody earlier in the thread mentioning using Sub Marowak pretty well. Could he/she come forward and maybe give the Set please?
Right now I'm mostly wondering if Max Speed is needed or if HP for slightly beefier Subs might be good, and if Sub/Fire Punch/EQ/Stone Edge or Sub/Double-Edge/EQ/Stone Edge is preferrably. And if Bonemerang is worth it.
Right now I'm mostly wondering if Max Speed is needed or if HP for slightly beefier Subs might be good, and if Sub/Fire Punch/EQ/Stone Edge or Sub/Double-Edge/EQ/Stone Edge is preferrably. And if Bonemerang is worth it.
I've been using a Grass Knot Uxie to reliably take on Rhyperior, and it's definitely a great switch in to almost any Rhyperior set. The most common ones I see are Rock Polishers, who only do about 65% with a Jolly Life Orb Megahorn, and Substitute users, who do even less. Grass Knot on Uxie is also rather unexpected, unlike Mesprit.
Rhyperior definitely is one of the best pokes in this metagame though, switching in with no problems into nearly all normal types, walls like Spiritomb and Registeel, and countless Choice users. Actually beating it is really not too hard. It's mainly a case of predicting the Stone Edge or Earthquake and acting accordingly as Legacy Raider said (and Megahorns are really predictable). I can see how it troubles many teams, but I mostly use offensive pokemon, and Rhyperior doesn't get many chances vs. offensive teams with the low special defense and numerous weaknesses. Basically, if you're overly reliant on things like Chansey, Registeel, and Spiritomb, Rhyperior's going to wreck you.
I've been seeing a lot of surprisingly offensive Spiritomb, and damn these are hard to take out and defend against. There are crazy things like mixed sets with Shadow Ball/Pursuit/Will-O-Wisp/Shadow Sneak, along with typical moves like Sucker Punch, Pain Split, Calm Mind, and Rest over Shadow Sneak sometimes. Some have bee running Spooky Plate to get the most out of Shadow Ball and Sneak sometimes, which feigns a Band sometimes, and proceeds to destroy switch ins. Trick users are annoying too. Definitely a pokemon I want to try out sometime.
EDIT: Pratty, I think that Fire Punch wins here. Fire Punch would hit two of Marowak's main counters harder than any other move: Tangrowth and Leafeon. The only two things that I can think of that Double Edge would hit better than any of Marowak's other moves are Claydol and Weezing, who aren't as common as the grass types. Generally, Earthquake is better than Bonemerang because of accuracy issues, unless you really hate Substitutes.
Rhyperior definitely is one of the best pokes in this metagame though, switching in with no problems into nearly all normal types, walls like Spiritomb and Registeel, and countless Choice users. Actually beating it is really not too hard. It's mainly a case of predicting the Stone Edge or Earthquake and acting accordingly as Legacy Raider said (and Megahorns are really predictable). I can see how it troubles many teams, but I mostly use offensive pokemon, and Rhyperior doesn't get many chances vs. offensive teams with the low special defense and numerous weaknesses. Basically, if you're overly reliant on things like Chansey, Registeel, and Spiritomb, Rhyperior's going to wreck you.
I've been seeing a lot of surprisingly offensive Spiritomb, and damn these are hard to take out and defend against. There are crazy things like mixed sets with Shadow Ball/Pursuit/Will-O-Wisp/Shadow Sneak, along with typical moves like Sucker Punch, Pain Split, Calm Mind, and Rest over Shadow Sneak sometimes. Some have bee running Spooky Plate to get the most out of Shadow Ball and Sneak sometimes, which feigns a Band sometimes, and proceeds to destroy switch ins. Trick users are annoying too. Definitely a pokemon I want to try out sometime.
EDIT: Pratty, I think that Fire Punch wins here. Fire Punch would hit two of Marowak's main counters harder than any other move: Tangrowth and Leafeon. The only two things that I can think of that Double Edge would hit better than any of Marowak's other moves are Claydol and Weezing, who aren't as common as the grass types. Generally, Earthquake is better than Bonemerang because of accuracy issues, unless you really hate Substitutes.
That would be moi, and please don't run Fire Punch, it's worthless and pathetic. I ran Sub/Earthquake/Double-Edge/Rock Slide. You're gonna be hitting everything with EQ and shit like Uxie and Torterra with Double-Edge. You can't OHKO it with Fire Punch anyway. You can use Stone Edge but I like hitting Moltres and Scyther with Rock Slide instead of missing. I used 40HP/252Atk/216Spe Adamant. It outruns max Speed Adamant Rhyperior, which isn't that useful but whatever. I used it with paralysis support so you can even run very minimal speed (I reckon outspeeding min Clefable should be the max) then put the rest in HP to make it bulkier, and hope everything else is paralyzed so you can sweep. Marowak is always able to OHKO standard Registeel so that's fun. I might actually remake my Marowak team...thanks for reminding me.
And all these SubPeriors are just hilarious. I'm gonna start running my Encore users again just to fuck with them. And please stop using Trick/U-turn/Thunder Wave/Stealth Rock Uxie because you're giving Rhyperior and Toxicroak and everything else free Subs.
I rather use Rampardos over Marowak.
Except the part that Rampardos can't switch on almost anything, but it also punishes everything better than Sub Marowak (who i also mentioned way before than Thund, on the Raikou era... but i didn't really used it).
Well, i can always switch Rampardos in and Sub on Will o Wisp or Thunder Wave...
Sub SD Rampardos is mortal when you have the chance (you rarely will). Though Avalanche is a worthy attack over Swords Dance (grab a Sub, and see Torterra, Claydol or Donphan taking huge amounts of damage).
The advantage of Marowak is bulk and huge power output, and Rampardos is "speed", Leftovers/Salac Berry and a useful ability while keeping a huge attack enough to 2HKO what you need.
Except the part that Rampardos can't switch on almost anything, but it also punishes everything better than Sub Marowak (who i also mentioned way before than Thund, on the Raikou era... but i didn't really used it).
Well, i can always switch Rampardos in and Sub on Will o Wisp or Thunder Wave...
Sub SD Rampardos is mortal when you have the chance (you rarely will). Though Avalanche is a worthy attack over Swords Dance (grab a Sub, and see Torterra, Claydol or Donphan taking huge amounts of damage).
The advantage of Marowak is bulk and huge power output, and Rampardos is "speed", Leftovers/Salac Berry and a useful ability while keeping a huge attack enough to 2HKO what you need.
Rhyperior's all about brute strength, breaking down walls with its amazing coverage. I use the Sub set in tandem with Mixken, who lures out Milotic and KOs it more often than not. Rhyperior now can easily come in on shit like Registeel, set up a Sub, and from then on it nets atleast one kill everytime it's in.
@Roflkip: Example one: I'm well aware that Sub + LO work for SOME pokés, like for Alakazam, who hits 369/405 SpAtk and has more than enough speed to boot, but no bulk at all; or with Sharpedo, who has 372 Atk decent speed and shitty defenses. However, it doesn't work for a pokémon that's mainly used for its bulk, that reaches 200 speed and 295 Atk. If you wanna use that Feraligatr is just better.
Example 2: Either I'm dumb, sleepy or this made no sense whatsoever... I have said no good player will let you get +1 AND Sub/2 DDs.
Example 2: Either I'm dumb, sleepy or this made no sense whatsoever... I have said no good player will let you get +1 AND Sub/2 DDs.
I see that there's not much we can discuss about the metagame...
Nothing stands out... Poke or style of play.
Nothing is seeing huge rises on usage (i think the last one was Torterra... which seems to have dropped on usage too).
There's no "central strategy", unlike the last metagame when we had Spikestackling...
So what will become of this meta? It finally stabilized?
Nothing stands out... Poke or style of play.
Nothing is seeing huge rises on usage (i think the last one was Torterra... which seems to have dropped on usage too).
There's no "central strategy", unlike the last metagame when we had Spikestackling...
So what will become of this meta? It finally stabilized?
We just have to wait until something does stand out and prove to be better than everything else. Assuming nothing will is absurd.
I also am very interested to see usage statistics for UU this time around. Because I really have no idea what the shifts will be like.
I also am very interested to see usage statistics for UU this time around. Because I really have no idea what the shifts will be like.
That would be a disappointment. Stabilized metagames are boring.
I think that hyper offense is going to rise up. It's so easy to just obliterate stuff, not even stall, which is a very useful playstyle in UU, can stand to the sheer power of shit like Specstile, Sub Alakazam, Swellow, etc.
And before anybody says anything, the fact that these three Pokemon all get walled by Registeel is just a coincidence.
I think that hyper offense is going to rise up. It's so easy to just obliterate stuff, not even stall, which is a very useful playstyle in UU, can stand to the sheer power of shit like Specstile, Sub Alakazam, Swellow, etc.
And before anybody says anything, the fact that these three Pokemon all get walled by Registeel is just a coincidence.
Nah HO, isn't hard to play. There are Pokemon that are problematic (Like RP Aggron and Swellow), but they aren't hard to deal with. I remember last metagame I stuck on LO Electrode (He's actually pretty good) as an insurance for RP Rhyperior and Swellow, Kabutops as an insurance against Rain. Just make sure you have the big threats "relatively covered" and you'll be fine.
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