NP: UU - Bye Bye Bye

[Flamewheeler]

Ok, throwing this off, but whatever...before I officially stop caring, is anyone going to nominate anything. If I don't make upper reqs I won't vote and at this point I see no point to anyway lol. I'm experimenting; it's kinda fun, kinda gay facing a bunch of ridiculous gimmicks, and for my personal bitching purposes...been off for like 3 days and come back to major hax lol.

And, Flare, I can't absolutely agree, but I have been seeing lots of RestTalk (probably calm) milotics and various other special defenders...like multiples on a single team lol.

Also, skunktank is a pretty bad ass pursuiter. I used him in previous rounds, but he just shits on a lot of stuff these days.

 

[Heysup]

I'm thinking about nominating Torterra, Moltres, and Milotic in particular. I mean it's at least worth discussing and gives people are reason to play more competitively.

e.g. if you don't play competitively and get voting rights we will ban your precious Milotic and Torterra.

Incentive, Blackmail, whatever you want to call it, these Pokemon are at least arguably worth nominating. I'll expand a bit when it isn't 2:15 AM.

 

[shrang]

Are you nominating random Pokemon just so there is something vote on, even though it's very likely they'll end up just like Dugtrio?? Meh, I don't care.

 

[Heysup]

Are you nominating random Pokemon just so there is something vote on, even though it's very likely they'll end up just like Dugtrio?? Meh, I don't care.

Man I'm lucky, I randomly chose the best special sweeper, best wall, and most effective physical sweeper!

I don't want to randomly nominate them just so there's something to vote on, I just want people to consider whether or not they are having "too much trouble" stopping Moltres, or "too much trouble" stopping Torterra, or - slightly more likely - "too much trouble" getting past Milotic. Milotic's been discussed in previous metagames, and Moltres has even been voted on. I don't see how the metagame has gotten any worse for these two...Raikou left and was the best offensive Raikou check while Froslass gave many Pokemon an easy time bypassing Milotic with easy Spikes.

I guess Moltres liked Froslass a lot, but the loss of Raikou counter-balanced that in my opinion.

 

[Thund91]

Man I'm lucky, I randomly chose the best special sweeper, best wall, and most effective physical sweeper!

I don't want to randomly nominate them just so there's something to vote on, I just want people to consider whether or not they are having "too much trouble" stopping Moltres, or "too much trouble" stopping Torterra, or - slightly more likely - "too much trouble" getting past Milotic. Milotic's been discussed in previous metagames, and Moltres has even been voted on. I don't see how the metagame has gotten any worse for these two...Raikou left and was the best offensive Raikou check while Froslass gave many Pokemon an easy time bypassing Milotic with easy Spikes.

I guess Moltres liked Froslass a lot, but the loss of Raikou counter-balanced that in my opinion.

I believe you mean Moltres.

Anyways, I can somewhat understand Moltres and Milotic but Torterra is no where near broken, you might as well nominate Zam or Mismagius before it who's counters are like, Registeel and Spiritomb for Missy and like...actually only Spiritomb for Zam. Chansey isn't even reliable against Modest Focus Blasts.

Anyway I've been abusing physical sweepers since I've noticed many Pokemon are geared towards Special Defense now as Flare pointed out (Milo, Registeel, etc..), and a few uncommon ones I've had success with are Zangoose and Absol. I run SD/Return/QA/CC with a Silk Scarf and it rampages teams with Ghosts gone (hint-pair with CBTomb). It's too bad it can't take a hit though. At least it can survive one Surf from Milotic...

Absol is a bit easier to set up with, as so many Pokemon fear it. I run a Lum Berry, or course, and after stall teams waste that one turn trying to burn it it's just dismantled. It's also funny seeing Scarflee or Blaziken trying to revenge it only to be KO'd by a +2 Sucker Punch.

So yeah, as much as I love special sweepers more than physical, physical sweepers are more effective currently. Most likely because special sweepers are so fearsome down in UU in the first place...

And I almost forgot, I've been using a support Hypno and it's been absolutely phenomenal. I went against the standard here and went with Bold with a lot of Defense ev's. I wasn't disappointed. After a Reflect, Arcanine's Flare Blitz is a 4HKO and Hypno's Special Defense is still top notch. At this point you can just throw Thunder Waves around while providing Wish support. It works well with SubPunchers who enjoy the recovery, Hariyama works well. Insomnia is just icing on the cake, Hypno just loves Venu.

 

[shrang]

I still run Physical Defense on Milotic... Why do you need the Special Defense?? Moltres?? Not going to 2HKO you unless it predicts you coming in (Or you have like 2 layers of Spikes up or something), which is A LOT easier said than done. Anyway, I've had quite a bit of fun with Sub/SD Rhyperior paired up with RP Rhydon in a Sandstorm. It is absolutely awesome to bring Weezing or Hitmontop or something like that down to about 20%, force it out, RP up Rhydon and sweep from there. Would it be worth writing a Rhydon analysis, or would QC reject it??

 

[Thund91]

I still run Physical Defense on Milotic... Why do you need the Special Defense?? Moltres?? Not going to 2HKO you unless it predicts you coming in (Or you have like 2 layers of Spikes up or something), which is A LOT easier said than done. Anyway, I've had quite a bit of fun with Sub/SD Rhyperior paired up with RP Rhydon in a Sandstorm. It is absolutely awesome to bring Weezing or Hitmontop or something like that down to about 20%, force it out, RP up Rhydon and sweep from there. Would it be worth writing a Rhydon analysis, or would QC reject it??

Well, yes. Predicting a Milotic on the switch isn't hard seeing as how it's its number one switch in. And it would be sad to be 2HKO'd by something you're supposed to counter. But it depends on your team really, my Milo can beat Rotom one on one and support Venusaur. It also isn't 2HKO'd by Ludicolo's Energy Ball. It's also more able to stay in and prevent Mismagius from setting up. I've seen a few people try and counter Missy with their Bold Milo just cause they have Haze and it's sad. And probably the best advantage is that Calm Milo gets to have Rest, which means it can retain most of the physical bulk while sleeping. Toxic just wrecks Recover Milotic and it's getting more and more common (I swear every Milo runs Toxic now).

And double strategies have always been pretty effective. Double RP with Rhyperior/Torterra, double Fire with Houndoom/Magmortar, or double special sweepers like Mismagius/Zam, usually because most people only carry one counter to these Pokemon and they overlap.

 

[dbcb]

And I almost forgot, I've been using a support Hypno and it's been absolutely phenomenal. I went against the standard here and went with Bold with a lot of Defense ev's. I wasn't disappointed. After a Reflect, Arcanine's Flare Blitz is a 4HKO and Hypno's Special Defense is still top notch. At this point you can just throw Thunder Waves around while providing Wish support. It works well with SubPunchers who enjoy the recovery, Hariyama works well. Insomnia is just icing on the cake, Hypno just loves Venu.

Well it loves non SD venu (which to be fair is getting rarer and rarer). SD venu does 45.2% - 53.2% if it power whips on the switch and if it SD's its doing 90.1% - 106.1% with power whip the next turn. But, of course, you could play around with it as you know the power whip is coming and you can switch to something that can take it and is faster.

(cals are bold max/max hyno BTW)




oh and on the ludicolo discussion... why the hell would you bring it in on a physical arcanine (or anything physical)??



But Hyno is cool that is fo sho

 

[Acritter]

I'm thinking about nominating Torterra, Moltres, and Milotic in particular. I mean it's at least worth discussing and gives people are reason to play more competitively.

e.g. if you don't play competitively and get voting rights we will ban your precious Milotic and Torterra.

Incentive, Blackmail, whatever you want to call it, these Pokemon are at least arguably worth nominating. I'll expand a bit when it isn't 2:15 AM.

I check out UU for the first time in a while, and see this. Fortunately, the thread isn't all about how this "perfect metagame" is suddenly overrun by new broken 'mons, and this is just an attempt at some discussion.

 

[Midnight.]

Leafeon in the sun can be such a troll haha. I am loving the thing now I know exactly how Leaf Guard works.

Here is the set I'm running:

Leafeon (M) @ Salac Berry
Ability: Leaf Guard
EVs: 4 HP/252 Atk/252 Spd
Jolly nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
- Swords Dance
- Endure
- Leaf Blade
- Flail

Adamant nature obviously gives you more power, but loses to scarf Rotom. This is best used in the late game, but if the sun is up I tend to come in on the likes of Chansey and try to set up. The set has its usual counters, namely weezing and Arcanine, along with most priority users. Sucks how many Houndoom run Sucker Punch now, since it is prime setup bait. Moltres gets canned by this set though, which is hilarious.

I trolled so many Venusars with the sun up it's not even funny.

 

[shrang]

Flail sets are always a bit hard to pull off in UU simply due to sheer amount of priority running around. Have you tried Substitute instead of Endure?? If you get to Sub down to really low health and keep it, it could probably save you from a turn of priority.

 

[Midnight.]

I was looking at the sub set, but this is just so funny for insta-rape. This way I am assured 200 BP Flail against something that would KO me, at the cost of losing to priority and dying to anything I can't OHKO.

Hide

Rules: Ladder Match, Sleep Clause, Freeze Clause, OHKO Clause, Evasion Clause, Species Clause, Strict Damage Clause
P.M_rainbow sent out Uxie (lvl 100 Uxie).
Poke-testes. sent out Moltres (lvl 100 Moltres).
Moltres is exerting its pressure!
Uxie used Thunder Wave.
Moltres is paralysed! It may be unable to move!
Moltres used Sunny Day.
The sun began to shine!
The sun continues to shine.
---
P.M_rainbow switched in Milotic (lvl 100 Milotic ?).
Poke-testes. switched in Leafeon (lvl 100 Leafeon ?).
The sun continues to shine.
---
P.M_rainbow switched in Venusaur (lvl 100 Venusaur ?).
Leafeon used Swords Dance.
Leafeon's attack was sharply raised.
The sun continues to shine.
---
Leafeon used Endure.
Leafeon braced itself!
Venusaur used Sleep Powder.
But it failed!
The sun continues to shine.
---
Leafeon used Leaf Blade.
It's not very effective...
Venusaur lost 32% of its health.
Venusaur used Sleep Powder.
But it failed!
The sun continues to shine.
---
Leafeon used Endure.
Leafeon braced itself!
Venusaur used Swords Dance.
Venusaur's attack was sharply raised.
The sun continues to shine.
---
Leafeon used Swords Dance.
Leafeon's attack was sharply raised.
Venusaur used Sleep Powder.
But it failed!
The sun continues to shine.
---
Leafeon used Leaf Blade.
It's not very effective...
Venusaur lost 48% of its health.
Venusaur used Return.
Leafeon lost 73% of its health.
Venusaur lost 10% of its health.
The sun faded.
---
Leafeon used Leaf Blade.
It's not very effective...
Venusaur lost 10% of its health.
P.M_rainbow's Venusaur fainted.
---
P.M_rainbow switched in Dugtrio (lvl 100 Dugtrio ?).
Leafeon used Endure.
Leafeon braced itself!
Dugtrio used Aerial Ace.
It's super effective!
Leafeon lost 27% of its health.
Leafeon endured the hit!
Leafeon's Salac Berry raised its speed!
---
Leafeon used Flail.
Dugtrio lost 100% of its health.
P.M_rainbow's Dugtrio fainted.
---
P.M_rainbow switched in Hitmontop (lvl 100 Hitmontop ?).
Hitmontop's Intimidate cut Leafeon's attack!
P.M_rainbow switched in Moltres (lvl 100 Moltres).
Moltres is exerting its pressure!
Leafeon used Leaf Blade.
It's not very effective...
Moltres lost 34% of its health.
---
Leafeon used Flail.
Moltres lost 66% of its health.
P.M_rainbow's Moltres fainted.
---
P.M_rainbow switched in Hitmontop (lvl 100 Hitmontop ?).
Hitmontop's Intimidate cut Leafeon's attack!
Hitmontop used Sucker Punch.
Leafeon lost 0% of its health.
Poke-testes.'s Leafeon fainted.
---

Hide

Rules: Ladder Match, Sleep Clause, Freeze Clause, OHKO Clause, Evasion Clause, Species Clause, Strict Damage Clause
Poke-testes. sent out Moltres (lvl 100 Moltres).
the daninator sent out Lopunny (lvl 100 Lopunny ?).
Moltres is exerting its pressure!
Lopunny used Fake Out.
Moltres lost 12% of its health.
Moltres flinched!
---
Lopunny used Switcheroo.
Lopunny obtained Heat Rock!
Moltres obtained Choice Scarf!
Moltres used Fire Blast.
Moltres's attack missed!
---
Moltres used Fire Blast.
Lopunny lost 63% of its health.
Lopunny used Toxic.
Moltres was badly poisoned!
Moltres is hurt by poison!
Moltres lost 6% of its health.
---
the daninator switched in Charizard (lvl 100 Charizard ?).
Moltres used Fire Blast.
It's not very effective...
Charizard lost 37% of its health.
Moltres is hurt by poison!
Moltres lost 12% of its health.
---
Moltres used Fire Blast.
It's not very effective...
Charizard lost 43% of its health.
Charizard's Petaya Berry raised its special attack!
Charizard used Sunny Day.
The sun began to shine!
The sun continues to shine.
Moltres is hurt by poison!
Moltres lost 19% of its health.
---
the daninator switched in Gastrodon (lvl 100 Gastrodon ?).
Moltres used Fire Blast.
It's not very effective...
Gastrodon lost 35% of its health.
The sun continues to shine.
Moltres is hurt by poison!
Moltres lost 25% of its health.
Gastrodon's leftovers restored its health a little!
Gastrodon restored 6% of its health.
---
Poke-testes. switched in Leafeon (lvl 100 Leafeon ?).
Gastrodon used Stockpile.
Gastrodon stockpiled 1!
Gastrodon's defence was raised.
Gastrodon's special defence was raised.
The sun continues to shine.
Gastrodon's leftovers restored its health a little!
Gastrodon restored 6% of its health.
---
Leafeon used Swords Dance.
Leafeon's attack was sharply raised.
Gastrodon used Stockpile.
Gastrodon stockpiled 2!
Gastrodon's defence was raised.
Gastrodon's special defence was raised.
The sun continues to shine.
Gastrodon's leftovers restored its health a little!
Gastrodon restored 6% of its health.
---
Leafeon used Leaf Blade.
It's super effective!
Gastrodon lost 84% of its health.
the daninator's Gastrodon fainted.
The sun faded.
---
the daninator switched in Lopunny (lvl 100 Lopunny ?).
Lopunny used Fake Out.
Leafeon lost 12% of its health.
Leafeon flinched!
---
Lopunny used Fire Punch.
It's super effective!
Leafeon lost 27% of its health.
Leafeon used Leaf Blade.
Lopunny lost 37% of its health.
the daninator's Lopunny fainted.
---
the daninator switched in Charizard (lvl 100 Charizard ?).
Leafeon used Endure.
Leafeon braced itself!
Charizard used Fire Blast.
It's super effective!
Leafeon lost 61% of its health.
Leafeon endured the hit!
Leafeon's Salac Berry raised its speed!
---
Leafeon used Flail.
Charizard lost 21% of its health.
the daninator's Charizard fainted.
---
the daninator switched in Meganium (lvl 100 Meganium ?).
Leafeon used Flail.
Meganium lost 100% of its health.
the daninator's Meganium fainted.
---
the daninator switched in Marowak (lvl 100 Marowak ?).
Leafeon used Leaf Blade.
It's super effective!
Marowak lost 100% of its health.
the daninator's Marowak fainted.
---
the daninator has left the room.
Poke-testes. wins!

Hide

Rules: Ladder Match, Sleep Clause, Freeze Clause, OHKO Clause, Evasion Clause, Species Clause, Strict Damage Clause
meganium1 sent out Hippopotas (lvl 100 Hippopotas ?).
Poke-testes. sent out Moltres (lvl 100 Moltres).
Moltres is exerting its pressure!
Hippopotas's Sand Stream whipped up a sandstorm!
A sandstorm brewed!
Moltres used Sunny Day.
The sandstorm stopped.
The sun began to shine!
Hippopotas used Stealth Rock.
Pointed stones float in the air around the foe's team!
The sun continues to shine.
---
meganium1 switched in Mismagius (lvl 100 Mismagius ?).
Moltres used Solarbeam.
Mismagius lost 46% of its health.
The sun continues to shine.
---
Mismagius used Thunderbolt.
It's super effective!
Moltres lost 75% of its health.
Moltres used Fire Blast.
Mismagius lost 54% of its health.
meganium1's Mismagius fainted.
The sun continues to shine.
---
meganium1 switched in Hippopotas (lvl 100 Hippopotas ?).
Hippopotas's Sand Stream whipped up a sandstorm!
The sun faded.
A sandstorm brewed!
Moltres used Roost.
Moltres restored 50% of its health.
Hippopotas used Roar.
Poke-testes. switched in Arcanine (lvl 100 Arcanine ?).
Arcanine's Intimidate cut Hippopotas's attack!
Pointed stones dug into Arcanine.
Arcanine lost 25% of its health.
The sandstorm rages.
Arcanine is buffetted by the sandstorm!
Arcanine lost 6% of its health.
---
Arcanine used Fire Blast.
Hippopotas lost 100% of its health.
Hippopotas hung on using its Focus Sash!
Arcanine lost 10% of its health.
Hippopotas used Roar.
Poke-testes. switched in Moltres (lvl 100 Moltres).
Moltres is exerting its pressure!
Pointed stones dug into Moltres.
Moltres lost 50% of its health.
The sandstorm rages.
Moltres is buffetted by the sandstorm!
Moltres lost 6% of its health.
---
Moltres used Roost.
Moltres restored 50% of its health.
Hippopotas used Toxic.
Moltres was badly poisoned!
The sandstorm rages.
Moltres is buffetted by the sandstorm!
Moltres lost 6% of its health.
Moltres is hurt by poison!
Moltres lost 6% of its health.
---
Moltres used Fire Blast.
Hippopotas lost 0% of its health.
meganium1's Hippopotas fainted.
The sandstorm rages.
Moltres is buffetted by the sandstorm!
Moltres lost 6% of its health.
Moltres is hurt by poison!
Moltres lost 12% of its health.
---
meganium1 switched in Cradily (lvl 100 Cradily ?).
Moltres used Sunny Day.
The sandstorm stopped.
The sun began to shine!
Cradily used Curse.
Cradily's speed was lowered.
Cradily's attack was raised.
Cradily's defence was raised.
The sun continues to shine.
Moltres is hurt by poison!
Moltres lost 19% of its health.
---
Moltres used Fire Blast.
Cradily lost 62% of its health.
Cradily was burned!
Cradily used Curse.
Cradily's speed was lowered.
Cradily's attack was raised.
Cradily's defence was raised.
The sun continues to shine.
Moltres is hurt by poison!
Moltres lost 18% of its health.
Poke-testes.'s Moltres fainted.
Cradily's leftovers restored its health a little!
Cradily restored 6% of its health.
Cradily was hurt by its burn!
Cradily lost 12% of its health.
---
Poke-testes. switched in Leafeon (lvl 100 Leafeon ?).
Pointed stones dug into Leafeon.
Leafeon lost 12% of its health.
Leafeon used Swords Dance.
Leafeon's attack was sharply raised.
Cradily used Rest.
Cradily fell asleep!
Cradily restored 68% of its health.
The sun continues to shine.
---
Leafeon used Swords Dance.
Leafeon's attack was sharply raised.
Cradily is fast asleep!
Cradily used Sleep Talk.
Cradily used Curse.
Cradily's speed was lowered.
Cradily's attack was raised.
Cradily's defence was raised.
The sun continues to shine.
---
Leafeon used Leaf Blade.
Cradily lost 54% of its health.
Cradily is fast asleep!
Cradily used Sleep Talk.
Cradily used Rest.
But it failed!
The sun continues to shine.
Cradily's leftovers restored its health a little!
Cradily restored 6% of its health.
---
Leafeon used Leaf Blade.
Cradily lost 51% of its health.
Cradily woke up!
Cradily used Rock Slide.
Leafeon lost 52% of its health.
The sun continues to shine.
Cradily's leftovers restored its health a little!
Cradily restored 6% of its health.
---
Leafeon used Leaf Blade.
Cradily lost 7% of its health.
meganium1's Cradily fainted.
The sun continues to shine.
---
meganium1 switched in Venusaur (lvl 100 Venusaur ?).
Leafeon used Endure.
Leafeon braced itself!
Venusaur used Sludge Bomb.
It's super effective!
Leafeon lost 36% of its health.
Leafeon endured the hit!
Leafeon's Salac Berry raised its speed!
The sun faded.
---
Leafeon used Flail.
Venusaur lost 100% of its health.
meganium1's Venusaur fainted.
---
meganium1 has left the room.
Poke-testes. wins!

 

[PK Gaming]

Man I'm lucky, I randomly chose the best special sweeper, best wall, and most effective physical sweeper!

I don't want to randomly nominate them just so there's something to vote on, I just want people to consider whether or not they are having "too much trouble" stopping Moltres, or "too much trouble" stopping Torterra, or - slightly more likely - "too much trouble" getting past Milotic. Milotic's been discussed in previous metagames, and Moltres has even been voted on. I don't see how the metagame has gotten any worse for these two...Raikou left and was the best offensive Raikou check while Froslass gave many Pokemon an easy time bypassing Milotic with easy Spikes.

I guess Moltres liked Froslass a lot, but the loss of Raikou counter-balanced that in my opinion.

I'm fine with Torterra who isn't getting past Leafeon and Tangrowth... ever.

And for offensive Moltres checks, like it or not Manetric and Raichu force it out every single time. (so that's something) and I think Zam and Guts Swellow have the power to do so as well. CB Azumarill is a given.

As for Milotic? You can always pull 1-2 combo with Venusaur and Dugtrio. Weaken it enough so it can switch out, and trap it on the next switch in. Speaking of Milotic sets, I don't bother running physically defensive. SD Ken is an awesome lure as it literally cries.
I'd run a physically bulky teammate like Leafeon or Torterra.


PS: Congrats on Forum mode status.

 

[fitzy72]

A few observations:

.Stall is a lot less common this period

. I have seen a lot more charizards than moltres this period, specifically the subdrum set.

So with 1/4 of the period left to play the only pokemon's that slightly fit the suspect criteria are rhyperior and miltoic. What do you guys think.

 

[Midnight.]

I'm curious to see the stats for the last month and see just how much more specially bulky Milotic has been. I'm starting to fail to OHKO the beautiful serpent with max power Solarbeams from Exeggutor, which is just crazy.

 

[Garganator]

Anyway, I've had quite a bit of fun with Sub/SD Rhyperior paired up with RP Rhydon in a Sandstorm. It is absolutely awesome to bring Weezing or Hitmontop or something like that down to about 20%, force it out, RP up Rhydon and sweep from there. Would it be worth writing a Rhydon analysis, or would QC reject it??

Something like Rayquaza/Salamence partnership in Ubers ? I like this idea, it's interesting however dedicating three moveslots for ground types (as you said SandStorm, so Hippopotas is neccesary, but it really is ? Sandstorm bonus is always nice, but... it complicates team building here alot as you're almost forced to use three other slots to cover their weaknesses). Anyway, I think I'll try it soon just to see results of this.

 

[IronBullet]

I'm fine with Torterra who isn't getting past Leafeon and Tangrowth... ever.

And for offensive Moltres checks, like it or not Manetric and Raichu force it out every single time. (so that's something) and I think Zam and Guts Swellow have the power to do so as well. CB Azumarill is a given.


PS: Congrats on Forum mode status.

Folg tested out a Mix Torterra with HP Ice for lols specifically to get past Torterra, Leafeon and Tangeowth and it seemed to work out pretty well:P Although it has to compromise on either Speed or Attack to do significant damage.

The problem with those checks (barring Azu) is they can't switch into Moltres reliably at all due to their frailty and lack of recovery. Even an NVE Air Slash hurts. Revenge-killing is the safest option to get them in against Moltres, but Moltres gets plenty of oppurtunities to switch in later due to its natural bulk and Roost.

 

[capefeather]

Agreeing that constructive complaining/criticism can serve to help UU battlers as a whole. I think that we unconsciously "prefer" (totally not the right word but bear with me) to put other people down and treat all complaining like a bad thing. This is understandable. We're all playing the same metagame, and yet our perspectives are so different that it's difficult to understand. These differences in perspective should be embraced, not discouraged.

I guess this was buried in the pile of weird from earlier so I'll present this question again:

The UU banlist now is the same as it was last summer. The differences: Yanmega is BL and Alakazam and Rhyperior are UU. Is this metagame significantly different from that metagame? If so, why? Was Yanmega that centralizing, or is this simply a product of reactions to the metagames in between? Perhaps Alakazam and Rhyperior have had a larger metagame impact than we realize?

I've definitely had plenty of reasons to believe that this metagame is different. A few of us have been rather vocal about our teams not being affected all that much by the dropdowns that happened in between, and yet some of us have suffered in this metagame while others continue to sail by. This is why I find this perhaps the most intriguing aspect of this metagame. The same team that I used in that metagame saw brief overwhelming success in this metagame followed by an abrupt failure to get past anything, before settling for being a bit worse than it was last summer. I'm sure that many others had similar experiences.

Now that I think about, it may be because a lot of the people in this forum now are different from the people in this forum back then.

 

[M BLADE]

oh and on the ludicolo discussion... why the hell would you bring it in on a physical arcanine (or anything physical)??

Exactly.
And no one ansewed my question. Time out.

Answer: we do not see Ludicolos on ladder outside rain teams. And everytime you see it's a Leech Seed one.

Anyway, Ludiclo comes on Milotic taking null damage from anything Milotic throws at it. It's the best poke to take all kinds of Milotic... together with Venusaur (Venusaur is immune to Toxic, but takes a good amount from LO Ice Beams... Ludicolo laughs at anything but Toxic).

 

[Cherub Agent]

had some massive success with modest manectric. This thing is honestly mental, it's not so different from raikou. The top three pokemon of ou, moltres, milotic and venusaur, are handled really well. I just run a standard LO set with a modest nature. Thunderbolt takes the first two, while overheat fries venusaur. Just fill in the other slots with hp ice, for altaria and torterra, and some other thing, he doesnt need anything else. I just gave him TWave to paralyze stuff when he forces a switch, and noone sees it coming. The beauty is his 105 base speed, meaning with a modest nature he outruns even timid moltres. TWave helps with thing faster than him like sceptile who switch in. Duggy is his only real enemy

 

[GMLW]

Exactly.
And no one ansewed my question. Time out.

Answer: we do not see Ludicolos on ladder outside rain teams. And everytime you see it's a Leech Seed one.

Anyway, Ludiclo comes on Milotic taking null damage from anything Milotic throws at it. It's the best poke to take all kinds of Milotic... together with Venusaur (Venusaur is immune to Toxic, but takes a good amount from LO Ice Beams... Ludicolo laughs at anything but Toxic).

I'd like to see you say that when you get hit by a Venusaur's Choice Specs Leaf Storm (or LO Sludge Bomb for that matter). I don't see why people don't run Specs Saur, it obliterates so much shit it isn't even funny.

 

[Cherub Agent]

i find specssaur inferior to specstile . Lower spa and way lower speed. Sure its bulkier, but being able to outrun the metagame sounds better to me

 

[GMLW]

That bulk is key. When using a choiced Pokemon, entry hazards take its toll on it, so being able to survive certain attacks is extremely helpful. Plus, Venusaur gets Sludge Bomb to deal with other Grass-type, while Sceptile has to deal with HP Ice. This allows Venusaur to use HP Ground to hit Steel-types and Electric-types as well (although that was more important when Raikou was around) while Sceptile has to deal with Focus Blast and its crappy accuracy. And did I mention Venusaur gets Sludge Bomb? Yeah, Sceptile can't do shit to Moltres, which is taken care of handily by Sludge Bomb, and I haven't done calcs, but I would be willing to bet it would do over 70% to the standard LO sweeper.

 

[Cherub Agent]

mabye it's just different playstyles. I prefer the fast, powerful but frail pokes to slower, bulkier ones. Although i do use specstile with RS support

 

[M BLADE]

I'd like to see you say that when you get hit by a Venusaur's Choice Specs Leaf Storm (or LO Sludge Bomb for that matter). I don't see why people don't run Specs Saur, it obliterates so much shit it isn't even funny.

Wat/

You can see the poke -Milotic- engraved there in my post, right?
Ludicolo is the best answer to Milotic, but hates Toxic.
Along with Venusaur, which it's also the best answer for Milotic,but it takes some mean damage from LO Ice Beam.