NP: UU - Zero to Hero

[Oglemi]

I haven't seen much for Rain teams, but Double-Fighting teams seem to be all the rage right now. It seems to have replaced the Double-Ghost strategy, and right now, is extremely effective.

Any Fighting-type + Heracross is the usual core. Most people seem to spam Scarf U-turn from Primeape to lure the opponent's Fighting-type counters, eliminate them, and then just let loose with Scarf Heracross or what have you when Weezing and company are gone.

It's really annoying as, not only do I have to be sure I keep my Heracross check/counter alive to the end of the battle, but I also need a secondary Fighting counter, exemplifying my other weaknesses.

 

[shrang]

I haven't seen much for Rain teams, but Double-Fighting teams seem to be all the rage right now. It seems to have replaced the Double-Ghost strategy, and right now, is extremely effective.

Any Fighting-type + Heracross is the usual core. Most people seem to spam Scarf U-turn from Primeape to lure the opponent's Fighting-type counters, eliminate them, and then just let loose with Scarf Heracross or what have you when Weezing and company are gone.

It's really annoying as, not only do I have to be sure I keep my Heracross check/counter alive to the end of the battle, but I also need a secondary Fighting counter, exemplifying my other weaknesses.

I remember when this was the typical team as soon as Heracross came down, and everyone was trying to lure things out for a Heracross, until CM Uxie taught them better.

 

[Arcticblast]

I remember when this was the typical team as soon as Heracross came down, and everyone was trying to lure things out for a Heracross, until CM Uxie taught them better.

Quoted for truth. CM Uxie is a beast once set up.

 

[Oglemi]

I remember when this was the typical team as soon as Heracross came down, and everyone was trying to lure things out for a Heracross, until CM Uxie taught them better.

True that.

Speaking of CM Uxie, or SubCM Uxie, what do you use to stop it? I always use Skuntank and Taunt + Pursuit, but I'm just curious as to how everybody else deals with this beast.

 

[Arcticblast]

True that.

Speaking of CM Uxie, or SubCM Uxie, what do you use to stop it? I always use Skuntank and Taunt + Pursuit, but I'm just curious as to how everybody else deals with this beast.

Mismagius is a great counter, and it can't do jack shit to Registeel without Thunderbolt.

 

[Smurf.]

CM Uxie is a good doppleganger for Cress, but it simply fails vs Registeel.

Encore Zam and Destiny Bond Missy are offensive checks.

 

[shrang]

Um, I haven't faced many other people using CM Uxie against me, but most people stop it by using Registeel and Spiritomb or basically hitting Uxie very hard and making sure it doesn't build up Calm Minds (+1 or +2 Uxie isn't that powerful). Chansey also completely stops it too.

 

[Arcticblast]

Um, I haven't faced many other people using CM Uxie against me, but most people stop it by using Registeel and Spiritomb or basically hitting Uxie very hard and making sure it doesn't build up Calm Minds (+1 or +2 Uxie isn't that powerful). Chansey also completely stops it too.

What makes it threatening is its ability to get to +3 and beyond with relative ease. With 32Def/252SpA/224Spe and Timid (to outspeed Rotom), it makes an incredible late-game sweeper. The Defense EVs add slightly more bulk, I think, since it'll just be boosting its Special Defense.

 

[M BLADE]

CM Uxie is certainly a beast.
Though i'm weird and use Heal Bell instead of Substitute to help my teammates.

A bad thing is that Houndoom has great synergy with Hera, and Houndoom eats Uxie alive.

 

[Banedon]

I've not faced CM Uxie, but I don't get why it's so threatening ... it has no shortage of checks. Off the top of my head:

Most Pokemon with Roar
Milotic with Haze
Faster Pokemon with Encore
Anything with Calm Mind can set up along with it
Scarf Heracross with Megahorn
Scarf anything with Trick
The list goes on and on ...

 

[Arcticblast]

I've not faced CM Uxie, but I don't get why it's so threatening ... it has no shortage of checks. Off the top of my head:

Most Pokemon with Roar
Milotic with Haze
Faster Pokemon with Encore
Anything with Calm Mind can set up along with it
Scarf Heracross with Megahorn
Scarf anything with Trick
The list goes on and on ...

Substitute makes the last two null. It's just the incredible natural bulk and great Speed (suck it, Tomb) combined with a boosting move that makes it so threatening. It looks somewhat easy to beat on paper, but in reality is incredibly dangerous. It also has surprise value - most people expect defensive Uxie.

Rhyperior has plenty of checks, does that make it bad? Of course not.

 

[Nails]

Personal check is encoring jumpluff/toxic registeel. Tomb beats it too with basically any set you can think of. Trickscarfing isn't a consistent strategy b/c of subs... encore is far and away the best counter to it. Alakazam doesn't even care about taking an unboosted psychic from it.

If you're extremely pressed for solutions and cbf to run a chansey/registeel/encorer/milotic/toxic user/phazer/hazer, just hit it hard and it eventually dies, barring croxie (who has shitty coverage). It's good, but it's not all that hard to stop. Weakened teams have issues with it, it's just like any other lategame sweeper, except it's a lot bulkier and not as powerful from the start as most other sweepers.

 

[brunch]

CM uxie is only good because not many people use chansey, regi, and spiritomb because more ppl are focused on checking Hera. This is probably just a metagame trend..

 

[shrang]

Most Pokemon with Roar - +1 Psychic/Thunderbolt does plenty to most phazers. Won't kill them, but they aren't phazing you again
Milotic with Haze - Will eventually lose to Uxie due to not being able to do anything back to it, while Recover gets stalled out from repeated +1 Thunderbolts
Faster Pokemon with Encore - Fine
Anything with Calm Mind can set up along with it - Fine, although Uxie beats a lot of them anyway since none of them are anywhere near as bulky (Mismagius is probably the only one that sticks in my head)
Scarf Heracross with Megahorn - Run Tanga Berry on Uxie. I swear to God it's amazing.
Scarf anything with Trick - Sub makes you fail
The list goes on and on ...

 

[Scoopapa]

CM uxie is only good because not many people use chansey, regi, and spiritomb because more ppl are focused on checking Hera. This is probably just a metagame trend..

I haven't played UU with Hera and haven't really been following this thread much either, so I'm really surprised to hear that CM Uxie has been getting so much use. CM Uxie was definitely more of an underground phenomena in earlier metagames, and while it was definitely cool, it was the sort of thing that needed a team where it fit a certain niche to really be worth it. I can easily see how it's sudden rise to familiarity could be caused by Heracross, though, since it can outspeed Heracross and hit it for Super Effective damage, while with most Uxie sets the opposite is true. I'm not going to call it a surefire Heracross lure (Edit: unless you're running the aforementioned Tanga berry, though I personally would mourn the loss of leftovers), but I can see how with some good playing it could be used that way. Also, team builders who find themselves often falling back on Uxie's defensive assets (which all variants preserve to an extent) would naturally shift towards variants that do better against the top threats of the day.

On a side note, now that Heracross is the Fighting-type of choice, Uxie is no longer an amazing recipient of Wishes passed by Clefable, which used to be a really nice perk of his.

 

[Cherub Agent]

has anyone else noticed the absolutely MASSIVE increase in MixDoom? God that thing rocks in this metagame. Normaly paired with (duh) hera or toxicroak. Also Sub LO dugtrio is, once again, extremely effective. Dodge all the sucker punches with sub, then use eq on doom/croak and AA on heracross. So, so effective right now :)

 

[FlareBlitz]

Fire-types in general have been on the rise due to them being the easiest way to check Heracross, and MixDoom comes with the added advantage of being able to eliminate ghosts, letting Scarf/Band cross spam Close Combat with little worry. I assume that's where the trend you're noticing comes from.

Out of curiosity, has anyone had any sort of success with a stall team in this metagame? I'm not exactly mourning the death of the playstyle, but I would love to know what kind of stall team would be successful in a heracross metagame. I suppose something like subroost Moltres/Weezing/Milotic/Aerial Ace Hitmontop makes an okay core, but I don't know much about stall...

 

[SOMALIA]

Fire-types in general have been on the rise due to them being the easiest way to check Heracross, and MixDoom comes with the added advantage of being able to eliminate ghosts, letting Scarf/Band cross spam Close Combat with little worry. I assume that's where the trend you're noticing comes from.

Out of curiosity, has anyone had any sort of success with a stall team in this metagame? I'm not exactly mourning the death of the playstyle, but I would love to know what kind of stall team would be successful in a heracross metagame. I suppose something like subroost Moltres/Weezing/Milotic/Aerial Ace Hitmontop makes an okay core, but I don't know much about stall...

I've been using Weezing/Spiritomb/Blastoise/Clefable core with scarfed-trick encore lopunny(lol). It's doing fine the only notable threats at the moment is opposing stall, as for offensive based teams, they are dealt with nicely.

 

[Banedon]

OK, so I played against CM Uxie twice. First time the poor pixie died to Scarf Heracross Megahorn. Second time it got phazed out by my own Uxie's Yawn. I don't know why it didn't have Substitute, but even if it did, U-turn has a chance of breaking it and besides I had no shortage of checks ... it needs to get to at least +2 to be moderately dangerous, plenty of time for something to either outspeed and threaten it out or phaze it.

There're certainly phazers that Psychic + Thunderbolt do not threaten, e.g. Steelix. Other phazers can take the hit to force Uxie out, following with the surprise value is gone and it won't be able to set up effectively anymore, especially if it's not running Leftovers. Milotic can still check Uxie; if Uxie is forced to make only one move then the defender can switch in an Electric resist on the obvious Thunderbolt, outspeed, and return a KO (+1 252 SpA Uxie Thunderbolt vs. 0/0 Sceptile = 39.9% - 47.7%). SpD Clefable beats Uxie, and so does Spiritomb.

I'm with NailsOU on CM Uxie. It's good, but it's not all that hard to stop. Weakened teams have issues with it, it's just like any other lategame sweeper, except it's a lot bulkier and not as powerful from the start as most other sweepers.

@FlareBlitz - I wrote a few pages ago that I played this stall team that used physically defensive Gligar to beat Heracross. I'd presume that's how most stall teams work now.

 

[Smurf.]

Stall teams are definitely around, Gligar/Hitmontop + Arcanine + Weezlotic provide the defensive core.

 

[Nas]

Stall teams are definitely around, Gligar/Hitmontop + Arcanine + Weezlotic provide the defensive core.

Interesting, I haven't come across too many stall teams as far as I can remember, more balanced with MiloWeez cores.

I've played against CM Uxie several times and I haven't been impressed by it at all. Milotic can Haze it all day long, Registeel beats Sub versions, and with Spiritomb being as common as it is I don't see it doing much against any well prepared team.

 

[Thund91]

Interesting, I haven't come across too many stall teams as far as I can remember, more balanced with MiloWeez cores.

I've played against CM Uxie several times and I haven't been impressed by it at all. Milotic can Haze it all day long, Registeel beats Sub versions, and with Spiritomb being as common as it is I don't see it doing much against any well prepared team.

That's why I look to Mesprit for my CM needs, or Zam if I want to be as offensive as possible and troll with Encore.

I mean even with Thunderbolt Uxie fails against Milotic ffs...

 

[shrang]

I mean even with Thunderbolt Uxie fails against Milotic ffs...

He actually doesn't, Milotic will be stalled out of Recovers before Thunderbolt runs out. Haze Milotic can't attack Uxie without being 2HKO'd by Thunderbolt.

 

[M BLADE]

Well, i'm not playing that much, but i do play sometimes.
On these plays, i use a double offensive water strategy that's been working relatively well until now:

LO Lapras lead and SubSD Feraligatr.

Before you guys come in to bash Lapras (and say the obvious "Milotique is betchar", let me say:

STAB Ice Beam, Thunderbolt and priority makes all the difference. That, and Lapras is still bulky as hell (slower Mesprits, even if carrying Grass Knot, are screwed lol) and doesn't need Timid, so Modest gives it a nice power. Screw Ice defensive suckyness, just focus on what Ice typing can give.

That said, SubSD Salac Feraligatr comes in. With only water moves.
Yeah, the set is to abuse Torrent with both Waterfall and Aqua Jet. And i must say that i love it!

Obvious problems are obvious, so i cover as much threats as possible with my other pokes (Toxicroak, Milotic, Slowbro, sometimes Venusaur...).
One of them is bulky Gardevoir with Wish and Will-o-Wisp. Works wonders if you ask me.
And of course, the mighty Heracross. Sub set is where he's at.

Nice team is nice. Competitive? I can't say. A lost only once with this team, but i played, like, only 20 matches.

Just sayin', since this thread seems a little dead.

 

[shrang]

Anyone tried out Choice Specs Magneton?? I'm very surprised there isn't one on the analysis at the moment (Or even any mention of it). We've all been talking about how awesome of a STAB Thunderbolt is in the UU tier (In any tier, actually), and Magneton's got the strongest one in the tier. Top it off with his 13 resistances, he can switch in and out without too much trouble and hand out STAB Thunderbolts from 558 Special Attack time and time again. His defenses aren't so good, yes, but his resistances more than makes up for it. Thunderbolt does 38.19% - 45.33% to standard Registeel, which makes him a one time switch-in at best (Although I would switch Registeel into Magneton anyway), and does 47.21% - 55.84% to 252/252+ Clefable. Standard Venusaur takes 39.74% - 47.02% from it, and the standard LO set can't do much back anyway. Here's set I've been playing around with lately:

Magneton @ Choice Specs
Ability: Magnet Pull
EVs: 108 Atk/252 SpA/148 Spe
Nature: Rash
-Thunderbolt
-Hidden Power Water
-Flash Cannon
-Explosion

With this set, only Lanturn and Chansey can even consider switching into this, but Explosion will teach them their place (Quagsire can too actually, but who cares about him). HP Water lets you hurt Ground-types like Rhyperior and Steelix, although Flash Cannon does a ton to Rhyperior anyway.