np: XY UU Stage 1 - Reload [Salamence: BL | Next: DROPS!!!]

[Stef0w]

honchkrow and and absol (and mega absol of course) still have stronger priority although clearly not as reliable. i think cacturne is stronger too and entei is only a hair weaker so it's not as if UU never had to deal with insane priority.

we'll be getting that with subcoil Zygarde's reintroduction with +2 and +3 extremespeeds c:

My bad, I meant prioity that can actually kill crawdaunt, since all the mach punches and brave birds seem to be looked away in OU.

 

[Sleepless]

My bad, I meant prioity that can actually kill crawdaunt, since all the mach punches and brave birds seem to be looked away in OU.

Just want to mention Bullet Punch\Espeed\Vacuum Wave Lucario will be dropping soon, and while it will most probably be BL and might be tested to stay there, there is a possibility of an UU 'mon with a faster priority to shut Crawdaunt down. Also, Staraptor's Quick Attack.

 

[Petrico94]

Should we talk about stuff that might be dropping? (2/3 months of being below OU 3.5% or is really far from that line)

Also, Lucario is too slow to out speed even an adamant Crawdaunt with +1/+1 aqua jet and extreme speed on its own isn't a guaranteed win. Knock off is an instant kill at +1 and +0 it's still something anyone wants to get hit by, Superpower can kill and so can Crabhammer, Crawdaunt doesn't even need to give anything up for Aerial Ace. Lucario can only come in on +0 aqua jet and even then it's going to take a lot of damage and have to rely on a fighting attack (can be pivoted by a ghost) to kill Crawdaunt. It could use Choice Scarf and Close Combat but that's still just adding one more check.

252 Atk Life Orb Lucario Extreme Speed vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Crawdaunt: 117-138 (43.6 - 51.4%) -- 6.6% chance to 2HKO

252 SpA Life Orb Lucario Vacuum Wave vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Crawdaunt: 252-299 (94 - 111.5%) -- 68.8% chance to OHKO (speed 306)

+1 252+ Atk Life Orb Adaptability Crawdaunt Aqua Jet vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Lucario: 237-281 (84.3 - 100%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO (speed 209 x1.5)

 

[WebBowser]

Yes, some shitmons have priority moves but even considering that there is zero reason to use them (seriously, Ledian is only a notch above Luvdisc.) UU is simply low on good priority users.

In my defense, precisely none of the mons I mentioned could be considered a "shitmon". Outside of Entei, none of them are particularly great mons, but they are decent. I sure as heck wasn't even thinking of mentioning Ledian (was considering giving e-killer Linoone a shout out though....). Shadow-Sneak M-Bannette is the only one who comes close (and he's infinitely better then luvdisc or ledian, not that that's saying much), but given his 165 base attack and weak as frick speed, I think shadow sneak could easily give M-Banette an oft unexplored offensive niche (I mean cmon, a base 165 attack mon in UU with STAB priority, there's gotta be some use for that here). I'm also slightly unsure of the viability of technotop, he's a great revenge killer and that's about it really. I guess the fact that getting him out basically garuntees a swap is never a bad thing, but other mons can do that better usually.

Frankly, vacuum wave on anything other then lucario seems kinda really bad. Mew and toxi may consider it, but they both have better things to do tbqh

 

[Sergeant Spooky]

In my defense, precisely none of the mons I mentioned could be considered a "shitmon". Outside of Entei, none of them are particularly great mons, but they are decent. I sure as heck wasn't even thinking of mentioning Ledian (was considering giving e-killer Linoone a shout out though....). Shadow-Sneak M-Bannette is the only one who comes close (and he's infinitely better then luvdisc or ledian, not that that's saying much), but given his 165 base attack and weak as frick speed, I think shadow sneak could easily give M-Banette an oft unexplored offensive niche (I mean cmon, a base 165 attack mon in UU with STAB priority, there's gotta be some use for that here). I'm also slightly unsure of the viability of technotop, he's a great revenge killer and that's about it really. I guess the fact that getting him out basically garuntees a swap is never a bad thing, but other mons can do that better usually.

Frankly, vacuum wave on anything other then lucario seems kinda really bad. Mew and toxi may consider it, but they both have better things to do tbqh

I said low, not non-existent. UU has a handful of good priority users, as compared to absolutely every other thing in OU having a priority move.

 

[DiscoDucky]

After testing with Craw, I find that is works really, really well with Bulky Offense and Balance. He fills a Utility (Knock Off), Wallbreaker (Adaptability Knock Off), and Revenge Killer (Adaptability Aqua Jet) all into one set, and the amazing part is that he doesn't half-ass any of those roles either.

 

[Ununhexium]

why are we discussing what might drop that cn check crawdaunt.

cobalion and chesnaught both make good switch ins. chesnaught resists both of ts stabs and can retaliate wit wood hammer or hammer arm or set up spike in its face.

 

[Shiny Minun]

why are we discussing what might drop that cn check crawdaunt.

cobalion and chesnaught both make good switch ins. chesnaught resists both of ts stabs and can retaliate wit wood hammer or hammer arm or set up spike in its face.

Chestnaught is 2HKO'd by Aerial ace or loses an item to knock off

Cobalion is taken out with Crabhammer + Aqua jet

 

[Mahmudkipz]

Chestnaught is 2HKO'd by Aerial ace or loses an item to knock off

Cobalion is taken out with Crabhammer + Aqua jet

Checks... not counters. Chesty and Coba both checks Crawdaunt unless you let it setup to +2/+2

 

[Petrico94]

How many pokemon can't OHKO Crawdaunt? As far as I know anyone with psychic attacks will have other things to use and 55 speed is close to "not worth the EVs"

 

[Prince Oberyn]

How many pokemon can't OHKO Crawdaunt? As far as I know anyone with psychic attacks will have other things to use and 55 speed is close to "not worth the EVs"

Don't forgot about that priority! And don't forget it gets Dragon Dance either. After one DD, a max Speed Jolly Crawdaunt outspeeds max Speed Base 100s.

 

[Patrick1088]

How many pokemon can't OHKO Crawdaunt? As far as I know anyone with psychic attacks will have other things to use and 55 speed is close to "not worth the EVs"

The thing about those pokes is that they cant switch in safely between coverage, power and potential boosting moves.

+1 252+ Atk Life Orb Adaptability Crawdaunt Aqua Jet vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Heracross: 224-265 (74.1 - 87.7%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

Hera is one of thr bulkiest rk around and it has a chance to be ohko by +1 aqua jet. The other rk in shao, darm and tini dont stand a chance. Toxicroak can check non dd sets, but it cant switch in. Chesnaught has to beware of aerial ace and ice beams, both of which 2hko. Hydreigon is a good check to dd variants, but must beware of superpower.

 

[Godsend]

I mean, what really can Crawdaunt set up on effectively? And please, common examples. The more I use Crawdaunt against apt players the less broken I think it is. And, these aren't people with six things that beat Crawdaunt specifically or anything. It can't set up on bulky waters for fear of Scalds, the number one mon in the tier ohko's it and anything that fears that it is going to set up can put a hurt on it/cripple it.

It's SO slow with not very good typing and piss poor bulk. It's a powerhouse wall breaker for sure, but it has no chances to set up which is when it's the most dangerous. The fact that anything with 110+Speed can outspeed it at plus 1 with a jolly nature is a testament to how slow it is.

Before I get flamed to death, it's not that I think Crawdaunt is a shitmon, if it gets the chance to set up it wrecks more ass then Flexington Steel, but that's a big if without a ton of support.

 

[nv]

Here's my problem with Crawdaunt...

Although it is a great wallbreaker with horrible bulk, it invests in speed for this reason. Since it invests in speed it can outspeed and OHKO the #1 poke in the tier after 1 DD

+1 252+ Atk Life Orb Adaptability Crawdaunt Crabhammer vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Florges: 403-476 (111.9 - 132.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Life Orb Adaptability Crawdaunt Crabhammer vs. 248 HP / 236 Def Florges: 302-356 (84.1 - 99.1%) -- 75% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock (This calc is for standard Florges)

Also since it runs speed it outpaces, and outdamages, a lot of the bulky offensive pokes that could take a hit and RK it such as MegaToise, Chesnaught, etc.

The reason Crawdaunt is so good, too good for UU in fact, is because anything that can take a hit can't switch in and anything that is a typical RK'er is killed by Adaptability Aqua Jet. Granted some RK'ers could take a hit but with hazards running amok and prior dmg is inevitable...they can get worn down and Crawdaunt rekts from there.

 

[Logic always wins]

How about physically defensive mega abomasnow? It can take anything a crawdaunt would want to do!! Some examples are:
+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Adaptability Crawdaunt Knock Off vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Mega Abomasnow: 265-315 (69 - 82%) -- guaranteed 2HKO it will proceed to kill it with giga drain (assuming it hasn't set up)
+1 252+ Atk Life Orb Adaptability Crawdaunt Knock Off vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Mega Abomasnow: 200-237 (52 - 61.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO the same with above
252+ Atk Life Orb Adaptability Crawdaunt Knock Off vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Mega Abomasnow: 133-159 (34.6 - 41.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO (will get killed by giga drain
252+ Atk Life Orb Adaptability Crawdaunt Aqua Jet vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Mega Abomasnow: 42-49 (10.9 - 12.7%) -- possible 8HKO this will do nothing to it


The only counter is superpower.

 

[Patrick1088]

How about physically defensive mega abomasnow? It can take anything a crawdaunt would want to do!! Some examples are:
+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Adaptability Crawdaunt Knock Off vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Mega Abomasnow: 265-315 (69 - 82%) -- guaranteed 2HKO it will proceed to kill it with giga drain (assuming it hasn't set up)
+1 252+ Atk Life Orb Adaptability Crawdaunt Knock Off vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Mega Abomasnow: 200-237 (52 - 61.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO the same with above
252+ Atk Life Orb Adaptability Crawdaunt Knock Off vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Mega Abomasnow: 133-159 (34.6 - 41.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO (will get killed by giga drain
252+ Atk Life Orb Adaptability Crawdaunt Aqua Jet vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Mega Abomasnow: 42-49 (10.9 - 12.7%) -- possible 8HKO this will do nothing to it


The only counter is superpower.

+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Adaptability Crawdaunt Knock Off vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Mega Abomasnow: 265-315 (69 - 82%) -- 56.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
(265, 270, 273, 276, 278, 281, 286, 289, 291, 294, 296, 302, 304, 307, 309, 315)

That crawdaunt just used swords dance and mega snow is cant outspeed. Mega snow doesnt stand a snowballs chance in hell of beating crawdaunt 1v1

Get it? Snowballs chance? Abomasnow ? Ahh. Nevermind! :-)

 

[Godsend]

I'd still like to know what you people are setting up on.

 

[Logic always wins]

+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Adaptability Crawdaunt Knock Off vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Mega Abomasnow: 265-315 (69 - 82%) -- 56.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
(265, 270, 273, 276, 278, 281, 286, 289, 291, 294, 296, 302, 304, 307, 309, 315)

That crawdaunt just used swords dance and mega snow is cant outspeed. Mega snow doesnt stand a snowballs chance in hell of beating crawdaunt 1v1

Get it? Snowballs chance? Abomasnow ? Ahh. Nevermind! :-)

If you get those stealth rocks away then crawdaunt is going to get destroyed by megasnow

 

[pokemonisfun]

I'd still like to know what you people are setting up on.

every bulky water and gligar and random weak (or resisted) choice scarf moves keeping in mind they can potentially revenge if Aqua Jet doesn't KO

HOPE SCALD DOESN'T BURN (lum berry?)

yeah if you're relying on scald to beat crawdaunt then you're losing about 70% of the time. i don't care about the scald hype too much it only burns 30% of the time ("only"). crawdaunt is winning a clear majority of the time

but honestly SD isn't even that good compared to CB sets which are almost or even better at breaking walls because it's doing insane things like 2hkoing vappy

and FYI to put it in comparison its like saying you don't want to use focus blast on a 45% SNorlax with your queen because ou are afraid it might miss and ko you with EQ. thats not sensible now is it?

 

[Shiny Minun]

Personally I've been using LO 4attacks, since with set up, crawdaunt has to sell away one of this needed coverage moves.
Not to mention Stab + aqua jet is how you take out several sweeper checks switching in.

While he is slow relative to sweepers, not much tanks outspeed even adamant crawdaunt. The only tanks I'm seeing that really hold a torch to crawdaunt are the bulky Ampharos, Aggron and the recently mentioned Abomasnow.

All these things need prior turns to set up their megas or they're no match for Crawdaunt.
None of them can take anything over 25% prior damage before dealing with crawdaunt.
For Abomasnow, this means never switching into stealth rock, or having to sacrifice to get a switch in on crawdaunt it can survive.
They also all need to run max defense, which in all cases are unpopular sets and in Aggron and Abomasnow (which himself is unpopular) these sets are not the most viable. Obama incredibly enjoy attack so he can be threatening on his own, defensive obama's would rather leftovers over the mega stat boosts, Aggron highly benefits from running max sp.def, preventing him from being pinged off by unresistant special attacks, that or going attack to shreak some pokes with heavy slam.

These also have to switch in and are not exactly difficult to switch into themselves, they can only switch into crawdaunt so many times with their lack of reliable recovery
Are you using Synthesis on Abomasnow?

The reason why megas have to be relied on is because absolutely nothing else WANTS to switch in on it. With no way to trap crawdaunt in and ensure its taken out, all check switchins either can't deal with a coverage move or are super dependent on their item nor do they take all of crawdaunts move extremely nicely. Or nicely at all for that matter.

 

[Patrick1088]

Mega snow is terribke at 'checking' mega snkw. Either you have to switch in and take a bit, or sac something. Even then, it will be outsped by daunt.

At least mega blastoise has bulk and can hit daunt with aura sphere and easily ohko and not have tobworry about sr...

 

[WebBowser]

I mean, what really can Crawdaunt set up on effectively? And please, common examples. The more I use Crawdaunt against apt players the less broken I think it is. And, these aren't people with six things that beat Crawdaunt specifically or anything. It can't set up on bulky waters for fear of Scalds, the number one mon in the tier ohko's it and anything that fears that it is going to set up can put a hurt on it/cripple it.

It's SO slow with not very good typing and piss poor bulk. It's a powerhouse wall breaker for sure, but it has no chances to set up which is when it's the most dangerous. The fact that anything with 110+Speed can outspeed it at plus 1 with a jolly nature is a testament to how slow it is.

Before I get flamed to death, it's not that I think Crawdaunt is a shitmon, if it gets the chance to set up it wrecks more ass then Flexington Steel, but that's a big if without a ton of support.

My personal opinion is that Magnezone is BL due to being a broken wallbreaker. Crawdaunt is arguably a better wallbreaker. Crawdaunt also happens to have the ability to take advantage of the switches it forces to setup, making it more scary. Crawdaunt is more broken then Magnezone. Crawdaunt should be BL.

Magnezone sure af wasn't setting up in front of anything, because it physically couldn't. Crawdaunt has similar offensive stats, a more powerful AND more reliable ability, more powerful STABS, better duel STAB coverage, priority, and happens to have the ability to setup. The last thing alone does not make crawdaunt broken. However, if magnezone is broken, and we truly agree on that, then there is no real room to argue that crawdaunt isn't broken, as crawdaunt is better then zone in nearly every way imaginable.

 

[Shiny Minun]

At least mega blastoise has bulk and can hit daunt with aura sphere and easily ohko and not have tobworry about sr...

I just want to add that blastoise needs to run 72 speed to outspeed Adamant crawdaunt and is at risk of being 2HKO'd by knock off

I'm not sure how much blastoise minds running speed though, I ran this back when crawdaunt was last in UU. If you really want to get down to it, there is a 37% chance that the damage will give away the sacrificed HP and have crawdaunt switch out, knowing that the the blastoise is faster based on how much damage it took, but I know how unrealistic that would be, especially in game without showdowns helpful readout.

Its probably best that bastoise run this till crawdaunt goes BL, its not a popular set ATM but I really don't see any reason to run it aside from crawdaunt.

 

[Bouff]

jesus you guys are terrible at identifying checks

first off chesnaught isn't even as common as it was in uubeta so aa is nowhere near needed on it especially when chesnaught is easy af to check on offensive teams as long as it hasn't gotten up spikes. second off while it can take out chunks of offensive teams, there are still solid answers to it offensively like hydrei and virizion (i think it outspeeds +1 craw by like 3 points if craw is jolly), thirdly, it requires a good amount of support to truly be game breaking as aqua jet can't even ohko certain threats unboosted. lastly it kinda kills momentum as kitten mentioned unless you have web up or something

personally i think craw should still be bl because +2 adaptability aqua jet hits like a truck and subsd is criminally underrated but i wouldn't mind it staying in the tier

 

[Petrico94]

+0 252+ Atk Life Orb Crawdaunt Superpower vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Hydreigon: 385-455 (99.2 - 117.2%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO
That's assuming Hydreigon is puttng points into health and not speed. Chesnaught might not be viable w/o Crawdaunt but atleast he can take the standard +2 attacks making Crawdaunt give up some coverage.