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NU Discussion Thread (Mark II)
- Thread starter twash
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wooo my first smogy post,its a pity i cant use shoddy anymore im dieing to try this tier out with a variation of my hail team i used successfully in uu(on my miecznik account if anyone remembers me,probably not :( ).
Without actually being able play its hard to say whats too much for this tier but on the face of it it looks pretty balanced with nothing sticking out,with weather teams cancelling each other out and the best physical threats like medicham,tauros and pinsir being easily countered in even this tier.
Is it even likely that anything will be banned? like i say iv been unable to play but from what i hear theres nothing that warrants it,and also id be extremely pissed if by the time i get to play this tier(3-4months away :( )that my beloved hail team is ruined if perma weather,walrein or glaceon are deemed too much for nu.
So yeah thats my ranty thoughts on that,itd be nice to be kept in the loop about what im sure will be my new favourite tier,the current trends and the flaws of nu would be nice to see here.
ps,anyone who wants a hail team pm me for it,someone may as well use it if i cant.
Without actually being able play its hard to say whats too much for this tier but on the face of it it looks pretty balanced with nothing sticking out,with weather teams cancelling each other out and the best physical threats like medicham,tauros and pinsir being easily countered in even this tier.
Is it even likely that anything will be banned? like i say iv been unable to play but from what i hear theres nothing that warrants it,and also id be extremely pissed if by the time i get to play this tier(3-4months away :( )that my beloved hail team is ruined if perma weather,walrein or glaceon are deemed too much for nu.
So yeah thats my ranty thoughts on that,itd be nice to be kept in the loop about what im sure will be my new favourite tier,the current trends and the flaws of nu would be nice to see here.
ps,anyone who wants a hail team pm me for it,someone may as well use it if i cant.
As far as Cacturne, try Aerial Ace. With the addition of Brave Bird not very many things use Aerial Ace any more, but the can't-miss attack still works very well against Cacturne's 70/60/60 defenses. Leafeon and Combusken would work well against Cacturne, as both learn Aerial Ace and take low damage from Cacturne's attacks. Hitmonchan would also cause Cacturne trouble with Foresight and Mach Punch.
Glaceon is likely to be banned from NU, 394 SAtk with nature and EVs, coupled with a 120 power attack and Specs is just too strong to stop. Glaceon is able to score many OHKOs through resists or through high SDef with SR, so any chance it gets to come out will pretty much guarantee the loss of a Pokemon. Add Snow Cloak and the can't-miss attribute of Blizzard in hail and you've got yourself a Garchomp, except one that isn't as easily to revenge kill since Blizzard isn't Outrage.
Glaceon is likely to be banned from NU, 394 SAtk with nature and EVs, coupled with a 120 power attack and Specs is just too strong to stop. Glaceon is able to score many OHKOs through resists or through high SDef with SR, so any chance it gets to come out will pretty much guarantee the loss of a Pokemon. Add Snow Cloak and the can't-miss attribute of Blizzard in hail and you've got yourself a Garchomp, except one that isn't as easily to revenge kill since Blizzard isn't Outrage.
This looks like a lot of fun. I'm really exited to get a team int his and start playing.
Kind of repeating what Twash and Meta said, it looks as though there aren't many pokemon in this tier that can actually take hits. The ones that can seem to have large gaping weaknesses (like Regice).
I also see a bit of a Trick Room weakness in this tier, as there don't seem to be any glaringly powerful priority move users.
Kind of repeating what Twash and Meta said, it looks as though there aren't many pokemon in this tier that can actually take hits. The ones that can seem to have large gaping weaknesses (like Regice).
I also see a bit of a Trick Room weakness in this tier, as there don't seem to be any glaringly powerful priority move users.
I prefer using Bibarel as my lead, and use Gligar for physical tanking. The two have great synergy, similar to Empoleon + Gliscor. In doing this, I was able to open up a slot for U-Turn or Knock Off.
Skuntank is a much better Pursuiter than Sneasel, mainly because of its typing, but its stats as well. It only has one weakness, and tons of HP, making it a pretty decent switch into Driftblim. On top of that, it has the threat of Crunch / Night Slash, which Sneasel does not, so pokemon are more likely to switch out of Skuntank. Let's not forget the skunk can Explode once it's job is over. Sneasel should be left at the lead role, and even then, it only prevents momentum, which is inferior to igniting it.
Skuntank is a much better Pursuiter than Sneasel, mainly because of its typing, but its stats as well. It only has one weakness, and tons of HP, making it a pretty decent switch into Driftblim. On top of that, it has the threat of Crunch / Night Slash, which Sneasel does not, so pokemon are more likely to switch out of Skuntank. Let's not forget the skunk can Explode once it's job is over. Sneasel should be left at the lead role, and even then, it only prevents momentum, which is inferior to igniting it.
No-one's really said anything on this topic, so I shall.
In NU, there is only 1 hail causer, and it's kinda... below average. Snover. Glaceon is also an Ice Type, and thus, takes 25% damage from Stealth Rock. Many pokemon can still take the attacks Glaceon throws out as well, most, if not all, Bulky Waters, in this case.
Also, a decent Scarfed pokemon should be able to inflct severe damage, provided that it hits, due to Glaceon's low defences.
Finally, if Snover is killed, just send in something that can take a Blizzard, and change the weather. Or a Hippopotas. NU is full of weather. Sand, Hail, Rain, and Sun all work wonders.
One final final thing is priority. Mach Punch from Hitmonchan, Vaccum Wave from... something... STAB Fake Out, Skuntank's Sucker Punch, will all deal massive damage, or OHKO.
Glaceon is similar to Garchomp, yes, but, it's much easier to counter. It has low defences, and the worst defensive type in the game, Garchomp is somewhat bulky, and has a good type.
Base 110 Defence and 95 Special Defence would like a word with you.
Raj
CAP Playtesting Expert
I've always thought that tiering is complete BS. Having recently retired a Cacturne based team w/ a record of +100 - 3, I maintain that usage is not an accurate reflection of ability. However, I understand that, but I do question the necessity of yet another tier in between UU and NU. What purpose would this accomplish?
The worst defensive type in the game would like to have a word with you.
If anything, the threat which most likely will be banned is Medicham and/or Ninetales. They unbalance the metagame to a large extent, to say the least.
Medicham and Luvdisc are currently in the same tier, that is why people are suggesting adding another "lower tier". We are getting to the point where there are so many pokemon that 3 tiers isn't enough to hold all of them and still be an accurate measure of competitive viability.
While I agree with you that UU isn't sorted out enough yet to be an accurate reflection of power compared to NU, it's pretty hard to argue that OU doesn't accurately gauge these things. There are plenty of things in NU that sweep right through UU (like Regigigas for example), but pretty much everything in OU would have a field day in the lower tiers. Just give it a little while longer, UU will sort itself out...then we can worry about making NU a legitimate tier
I think there are some people who want to play with really really really shitty pokes (like the previously mentioned luvdisc). And NU right now has pokes that completely outclass the luvdiscs of the world.
basically the same reason play NFE... just something else to do.
has anyone tried regigias lately?its been doing well to me by annoying and crippling the foe while stalling out those slow start turns.proves well against fast frall sweepers like haunter and linoone as it can cripple them with thunder wave and confuse ray and attack if need with return(or fire punch in haunters case)
ive been using mixed regigias:
regigias@leftovers
evs:192 hp/252 attack/64 sp attack
nature:hasty
-return
-thunderbolt
-fire punch
-earth power
this regigias is kinda weird for most people.fire punch is for grass types like leafeon,return for obvious STAB.thunderbolt for waters like poliwrath and earth power for fire types like ninetails and flareon
and also
ive been using mixed regigias:
regigias@leftovers
evs:192 hp/252 attack/64 sp attack
nature:hasty
-return
-thunderbolt
-fire punch
-earth power
this regigias is kinda weird for most people.fire punch is for grass types like leafeon,return for obvious STAB.thunderbolt for waters like poliwrath and earth power for fire types like ninetails and flareon
and also
wow i never knew slowking was that high. i rarely see any mention for slowking...
Isn't his special attack higher than attack during slow start?
Yes, I think it is actually.
However, I think Return/Earthquake/Ice Punch/Superpower/Focus Punch/Zen Headbutt/Fire Punch/Superpower probably justifies having a physically orientated Regigigas, as if you make it special, you have to rely on Thunder/Hidden Power/Focus Blast/Earth Power/Thunderbolt.
I think a lot of people are using Regigiagas incorrectly though. A lot of people think of it as a Pokemon that they need to stall 5 turns out with, and then sweep.
I, however, think of Regigigas as a Pokemon with approximately 110/70/110/80/110/50 base stats. If you look at it like that, Regigigas is actually a good defensive Pokemon, with 110/110/110 base stats. And it's not too weak offensively.
When I used Regigigas, I don't intend to keep it in until it 'gets its act together'. I use it as a defensively orientated Pokemon. I keep it in for a few turns, just like with any other Pokemon. If it does stay in for long enough, it's a very nice 'added bonus', but I don't make my Regigigas's moveset solely for the intention to get that base 160 Attack and 100 Speed activated.
Regigigas is actually like Lickilicky, but with slightly less offense, more defenses, and a different movepool to choose from.
Does anyone get me?
Problem is, unless you are Blissey with access to Stealth Rock, Softboiled, Wish, Protect, etc, normal is a pretty terrible tanking type, being hit neutral by everything except Ghost(often paired with fighting). Licklicky can Explode, pass Wishes, Curse, and Swords Dance, those alone allow him to be used more frequently.
Read this thread.
Regigigas can have a maximum Attack stat of 230 while Slow Start is having an effect. It's Special Attack can top at 284 (and will stay there after Slow Start). The reason Regigigas is often used with moves like Thunder Wave and Substitute is because the player wants to get past the five turn barrier. If you are running a special set you don't need those moves, because Regigigas' Special Attack is at its peak from the moment it is switched in. However, I agree that Regigigas' Special Attack may be too low to perform a successful sweep.
I also agree with blasphemy1 when he talks about Regigigas. Regigigas has Knock Off, Thunder Wave, and Confuse Ray, and I cannot help feel that is about it defensively.
Base 65 HP would like to have a word with you. And the Ice Type. AND Base 65 Speed.
Yeah, Glaceon does have Garchomp similarities, but it's far slower, despite packing the same power, and Ground/Dragon with 108/95/85 defences are far harder to take out than the Ice Type with 65/110/95. Not to mention speed.
Skarmory much?
So the idea it's to create a tier below NU were caterpie and Luvdisc can live together? I like that. Just dont call it NFE, that dont make sense since Luvdisc, Bautifly and farfy are full evolved. Uter or how X-act called it seems an OK name.
I think Glaceon is somewhat similar to Heatran and Magnezone (all of them are slow, 130 sp. def., high defenses but not-so-good HP(not in Heatran case)
The thing is that Heatran and Magnezone types are just insanely good, while Glaceon... well...
I say Raichu is good. Low defenses, not so good defensive typing... but versatile, and Nasty Plot versions are painful. It's fast too.
Nasty Plot versions,he is like Ninetales, but with less chances to come in, and more versatile.
He can be mixed , he can use wish(not that anyone would use it), he can use Encore... and the list goes on
About Cacturne... use Entei. Yes, a defensive one, like Crocune. You'll be surprised of how many hits he can take.Plus, he isn't slow even with zero evs.
The thing is that Heatran and Magnezone types are just insanely good, while Glaceon... well...
I say Raichu is good. Low defenses, not so good defensive typing... but versatile, and Nasty Plot versions are painful. It's fast too.
Nasty Plot versions,he is like Ninetales, but with less chances to come in, and more versatile.
He can be mixed , he can use wish(not that anyone would use it), he can use Encore... and the list goes on
About Cacturne... use Entei. Yes, a defensive one, like Crocune. You'll be surprised of how many hits he can take.Plus, he isn't slow even with zero evs.
I've been using the Gligar + Gardevoir + Bibarel combo, as most of you should know from the warstory I've posted. I have to say that combo is extremely successful.
Also, I have a feeling that Bibarel is much more threatening then Linoone. For Bibarel, all you basically need is Gligar and that's all. On the other hand, Linoone needs entry hazards, team support, dual screen support, etc. Even if it gets up a Belly Drum, it still can't OHKO absolutely everything, but Bibarel can. Bibarel has an unresisted STAB combo, only being immune to Shedinja, but Bibarel can easily remedy that problem by using Pluck. It also has Quick Attack so it can outspeed priority users. I use a set of Waterfall/Return/Quick Attack/Pluck.
Bibarel is way more threatening then Linoone in my opinion.
Also, I have a feeling that Bibarel is much more threatening then Linoone. For Bibarel, all you basically need is Gligar and that's all. On the other hand, Linoone needs entry hazards, team support, dual screen support, etc. Even if it gets up a Belly Drum, it still can't OHKO absolutely everything, but Bibarel can. Bibarel has an unresisted STAB combo, only being immune to Shedinja, but Bibarel can easily remedy that problem by using Pluck. It also has Quick Attack so it can outspeed priority users. I use a set of Waterfall/Return/Quick Attack/Pluck.
Bibarel is way more threatening then Linoone in my opinion.
I agree, Water + Normal provides fantastic coverage, and allows Bibarel to beat most of the walls in NU(which Linoone needs Magneton and other support to do).
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