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NU Viability Ranking

Discussion in 'BW NU' started by Annoyer, Oct 10, 2012.

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  1. FortressDoor

    FortressDoor

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    Lum Berry Golem completely murders Lead Double Powder Butterfree, and still gets rocks up

    As for it being easy to predict, it can make a big difference. For example, lead Golem vs. Butterfree. If you Bug Buzz, Golem gets rocks up or flat out KO's if. If you Sleep Powder, Sawsbuck can come out and get the boost. Not that simple to predict, especially since you do not know Golem's item.

    And no one uses Roost on Butterfree because it is way too frail.
  2. ryanr554

    ryanr554

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    I was only saying Roost because someone said it did not get reliable recovery and I also said it was irrelevant anyway.

    As for Lum Golem, that is one lead out of many to choose from who uses leftovers a lot of the time anyway. Also, if you were using Sap Sipper Sawsbuck on the same team as Golem, why would you use Lum to combat sleep powders?
  3. FortressDoor

    FortressDoor

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    Reliable recovery does not mean anything when it is too frail to use it. Butterfree gets Whirlwind but nobody should use Butterfree as a phased.

    Why use a lead to prevent rocks (like you said with Butterfree) that is countered by anything with Lump Berry, which is a useful item, when you could use a Taunt lead to prevent the rocks, that you need a Mental Herb to beat, and Mental Herb is useless outside of Taunt.

    And because Sawsbuck is on the team for its amazing offensive powers, not just Sleep. It doesn't matter why anyway.
  4. Ashley11

    Ashley11

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    Butterfree has 60/50/80 defenses 0_0 thats just terrible. this brings up a point that priority moves destroy this thing as well, such as ice shard, sucker punch, and bulletpunch, etc. Couple that with its tremendous stealth rocks weakness and you get a very frail pokemon that can be beaten pretty easily. One reason why articuno and charizard are B rank is because that even though they both have the SR weakness, they still have good enough defenses to keep it alive longer. Arcticuno has 90/100/125, which is great, and charizard is at 78/78/85, which is at least better than butterfree.

    Butterfree is also quite slow without any quiver dances, which makes it hard to get quiver dances or sleep powders off to begin with. Sure you could try to set up against walls, but as mentioned earlier lum berry and sleep talkers dont care. If another pokemon is already statused they could switch in to absorb the SP and then proceed to kill since this thing is insanely frail. This is why butterfree is C rank, sure its good, but it needs a lot of support, like wish passing, RS, and Heal Bell to keep it from getting too crippled to function.
  5. JirachiCelebiMew

    JirachiCelebiMew

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    You aren't really using Lum Berry to combat sleep, you're mostly using it for Burns, which can really hinder Golem's performance.
  6. Wobble

    Wobble

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    Lum Berry Golem is, in all honesty, an outdated concept stemming from a slower BW1 meta where things like Weezing and Misdreavus were everywhere as Golem was the number 1 Pokemon in the tier at this point.

    I've actually used it recently and it's really not worth it given how sheerly offensive the BW2 meta is.

    With a Lum, basically any offensive teams will carry something that scares Golem from leading, such as MB Sawk or SR Golurk, end result being they get their rocks and when you later switch Golem in you can't Lefties recover back to sturdy range to either A: SR + Sucker or STAB + Sucker.

    Without Leftovers and particularly sturdy, Golem can be dead weight against offense given how easy it is to OHKO.
  7. Lolk

    Lolk you can't stop the beat
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    I think this forum could be used as the basis on finally creating a PU tier. B/C rank Pokes and higher would stay neverused. That would be exciting.
  8. WhiteDMist

    WhiteDMist PU! We don't stink though!
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    It was already decided a while ago that NU would be the lowest tier for the BW/BW2 generation. Maybe for X/Y...

    Guys, Butterfree is not really worth B rank. Not only is its bulk not anything to write home about AFTER a QD, it has trouble finding free time to set up even against stuff it resists. The only positives about it are its Bug STAB that lets it handle this Psychic infested metagame, Quiver Dance, and Sleep Powder. You either give up an accurate Sleep Powder, or you give up decent neutral coverage against most of the metagame in terms of abilities. As for the lead sets, what does it really have over any other Double Powder users except Compoundeyes and U-turn? If you are relying on it as an anti-lead, why aren't you using Sawk or a Taunt lead? Being weak to Stealth Rock is just another problem it has that it can't really get around; Articuno and Charizard are higher ranked because they have great offensive prowess and have the bulk to actually use Roost. Normally I wouldn't use this as an argument, but the OP states that a C-Rank Pokemon is one that "...have notable niches in the NU metagame, but have just as notable flaws that prevent them from being effective." Fits Butterfree to a T.

    Golem almost never runs Lum Berry anymore because almost no one runs Sleep Powder leads anymore. Running Lum Berry for Burns isn't exactly a necessity when Golem's main role is to tank Normal and Flying hits while setting up Rocks. It may help against Liepard, but then so can most Pokemon that choose to run Lum Berry.
  9. Super Luigi

    Super Luigi

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    1. Where are the other elemental monkeys?
    2. Golurk currently is the best lead do to the fact nothing wants a confusion.
    3. Mr. Mime while not good by any means has a niche on some BP teams I say move to c or D tier
  10. tennisace

    tennisace another eggnog, please
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    Social Media Chief

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    1) Simipour is in C, Simisear is in D, and Simisage is in E
    2) I wouldn't call it the best lead, since there are other Pokemon that are better in the lead slot. SubPunch Golurk especially shouldn't be used as a lead, it should be more of a switch-in to Normal-type Pokemon.
    3) Mr. Mime is in C.
  11. Super Luigi

    Super Luigi

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    Ratacate is not E it is the second fastest guts pokemon in NU and has 2 forms of priority overall making it much more consisteant than either ursaring or lineoone I say its about C or D tier
    Also so why is metang so high what does it wall besides birds? Because even corsala can do that while burning and regenerating I see no need for it to be higher than E.
    Phione should be D. Its abilty to rain rest alone warrents at least that. That being said it is a decent wall in NU only having 2 weaknesses and can have more of a role on a team than the firefly guys since all they can do is u-turn out after setting up (witch btw Phione can do as well)
  12. FireMage

    FireMage Say Goodnight!
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    Ursaring outclasses Raticate as a Guts abuser as it can actually take hits 55/60/70 defences are poor, even in NU. Gurdurr also uses Guts better with better STAB options and semi-reliable recovery with Drain Punch - Both are bulkier with better attacking stats and options. (Although Quick Feet is a better option on Ursaring) I honestly can see why Raticate isn't used and should be kept E. It sits at a relatively alright speed tier but is just outclassed by most other offensive normal type (Kangaskhan has access to double Priority in Fake Out and Sucker Punch and argueably better ability in Scrappy)
  13. Magcargo

    Magcargo That's Onii-sama to you
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    Phoine sucks in nu. 80 base stats across the board means that it won't hit hard and can't take hits well. Ludicolo is a better rain dancer because of it's better bulk and typing as well as swift swim. Volbeat also sets up rain dance better because of prankster and u-turn. Also, rest doesn't help a pokemon with low defenses anyway. Phoine has no real niche. Metang has great defensive typing and 60/100/80 defenses boosted by eviolite means it can definetly tank a few hits. Being one of the few steels in nu definetly give it a niche. It can also wall some of the dominant psychics and normal types.
    Also, why is combusken so high? It has to rely on moves with subpar accuracy, has low defenses and Mediocre offensive stats. It seems like a c-ranker
  14. ScraftyIsTheBest

    ScraftyIsTheBest I Love Goomy
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    Raticate isn't really that good, and it really doesn't pack that big of a punch. Plus, if I were to utilize a Guts user, I'd be using Ursaring or literally enything. Linoone and even Pawniard outperform it at spamming priority. Every Normal-type is better than it. it can rot in E for all that I care.

    Metang is actually good in NU atm. It was the laughing stock of NU and RU alike back then, alright, but being one of the few Steels in the tier, Metang has his place. He can wall Psychics and Normals and Flying-types that run rampant in NU, and he can even wall Zangoose to hell and back. Pretty decent, I'd argue placing him in B-Rank.

    Phione is, simply put, garbage. It has Glalie syndrome in having mediocre stats across the board, no real movepool to stand out, and mostly outclassed by Ludicolo, as previously mentioned. There's no reason to use Phione on a serious team; it does nothing appealing.

    And this thread is in horrible need of being updated. It hasn't been updated in like over a month.
  15. JirachiCelebiMew

    JirachiCelebiMew

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    Phione is badly outclassed in everything. You think that it can run Rest + Hydration in Rain? Lapras does that better, and it even gets get Whirlpool and Perish Song (lol) to trap foes that don't have Taunt. It should stay E, same for Raticate. I also agree for Metang being B, because it just has a great typing.
  16. lolazo

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    Simisage is soooo good in this metagame, with amoonguss, emboar and cinccino gone, simisage can use sub + 3 attacks and sweep teams, and with psychic types plus life orb overgrow giga drain is soo powerfull, focus blast destroys walls and sap sipper users like lickilicky, regice and sawsbuck, and with hp ice destroys altaria and does damage to grass types, and 101 speed is soo good in nu, sadly is set up bait for spikes users (garbodor and roselia) but with psychic type domination can be not a problem I'd nominate for at least B-Rank or but i think A-rank is good

    and nominated Girafarig for C-Rank he had a good niche in calm mind passer and can counter grass types like tangela or exeggutor and pass attack boost. he always outspeed skuntank and with baton pass avoid pursuit and sucker punch, and dual stab psychic + normal had good neutral coverage, but in most cases is better to choose another psychic type like musharna, gardy or kadabra but the niche is good
  17. Magcargo

    Magcargo That's Onii-sama to you
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    I think your overestimating Simisage. Simisage is not going from e-rank to a-rank just because those pokemon were banned. I think D-rank is more logical. However, simisage's only saving grace is his speed, while his movepool is only good. He can't sweep teams like that and the set you mentioned is walled by fire types, espicially charizard. Simisage also faces competion from grass types like exeguttor torterra and shiftry. Also, grass has mediocre type coverage and setting up a sub isn't easy. He is, at best a C-rank pokemon.
    Also, lickylicky doesn't get sap sipper.
  18. lolazo

    lolazo

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    fire types are soo rare in this metagame and charizard is weak to sr and easily checked
    setting sub is easy in common pokemons like alomomola, golem, regirock, golurk and samurott in switchs
    and simisage had good coverage in grass, fight, and ice and only walled for fires, haunter (45 hp 55 sdef lol) and pinsir

    and i say walls and sap sipper users like licki and buck
  19. Magcargo

    Magcargo That's Onii-sama to you
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    It can only swith in saftely against alomomola because the other pokemon can hit hard with stone edge, ice punch and ice beam respecively. Also, misdrevous can wall those coverage moves as well. 75/66/66 defenses are trash and other grss types like exeguttor can at least tank a few hits. Also, fire types like rapidash can outspeed simisage and kill it off with flare blitz. Also, there are many bug types in nu that can wall simisage, including the pathetic beedrill. Honestly, simisage just doesn't have the raw power of cacturne or exeguttor and like I said before, Simisage is C-rank at best.
  20. JirachiCelebiMew

    JirachiCelebiMew

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    I agree with the fact that Simisage should be C-Ranked. Sure, it has pathetic Defenses, but once you get rid of it's counters, and that you're behind a Sub....Basically, one Pokemon is going down. If you keep Subbing until Overgrow range, you can just fire awfully strong Giga Drains which will keep your health high. You can even run Petaya or Salac as an alternative to LO, although I would stay with Life Orb. Simisage is mostly known as a Nasty Plot sweeper, so most people will try to status it, giving him numerous opportunities to setup a Substitute. He works well in Hyper Offense with some Screen support, but can definitely stand by himself. And also, remember one thing guys. Sure, ''X'' Pokemon is countered by ''Y'' Pokemon, but you also have five other teammates that can beat that counter.
  21. Magcargo

    Magcargo That's Onii-sama to you
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    I can agree with C-rank because while he isn't that good, he isn't that bad either. I thought that A-Rank was a bit of an exaggeration because he isn't THAT good. Simisage is walled by quite a few pokemon, however.
  22. Super Luigi

    Super Luigi

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    In my defense I flat out said all the pokemon i nominated are MEDIOCRE AT BEST. I just think its odd to have 3/4 of the nu in E.
    Also I agree with combuskin being a lower tier honestly for the previously mentioned reasons. IMO it is ninjask without the BP
  23. Magcargo

    Magcargo That's Onii-sama to you
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    Combusken actually gets baton pass, but I think it is illegal with speed boost. Anyway, like I said before, combusken has pretty low offensive stats and relies way too much on speed boost to sweep. It's moves have subpar accuracy as well. It seems like a c-ranker at best, so I have to agree with this.:toast::toast:
  24. The Zororoaster

    The Zororoaster

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    Regigigas should not be D rank, plain and simple. He has base 110/110/110 defenses, a normal typing, great for special walling, and can run a Sub + T-Wave set to generally cripple Pokemon on the opponents teams. He can stand head to head with basically every single special offensive threat on this list and can take a few neutral hits from the physical side too.

    Regigigas is no slouch offensively either. He essentially has base 80 attack, not bad for a wall. After 5 turns of being in(not too hard with Regigigas's incredible subs and some parahax) Regigigas magically transforms from a major defensive threat to a major offensive threat. Return + EQ gives him pretty good coverage. 160 base attack is Uber level, and 100 speed in NU is not so bad, especially when many scarfers and naturally fast Pokemon are specially based. You should NEVER base your end game plan around a Regigigas sweep, but it can definitely help weaken up and cripple the opponents team, and will sometimes end the game right then and there.

    A major problem with Regigigas is that he can not touch Haunter or Misdreavus, and this gives Haunter a chance to set up a sub. You never want to give Haunter a free sub. This really brings Regigigas down. And a good Pursuit user is highly recommended if you are going to use him. You could use Zen Headbutt as well, but then Steel types and Rock types give you problems.

    No Pokemon can quite do what Regigigas does, but Lickilicky is very similar to Regigigas, in terms of stats and typing, and Lickilicky has Wish and Swords Dance, Regigigas without Slow Start is a much larger threat than Lickilicky with Swords Dance though. So really the only reason to use Lickilicky is if you want Wish and Dragon Tail. Instead of Thunder Wave, better defenses, and the ability to do some major damage.

    Because his capabilities of defensive and offensive power. I would recommend moving him up to C tier, possibly even the B tier, if Lickilicky managed to be an A tier wall.
  25. Magcargo

    Magcargo That's Onii-sama to you
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    Regigigas has literally no offensive presence. 5 turns in battle are a long time and he can be crippled in that time. Regigigas actually has an equavilant of around base 50 attack factoring in slow start. Thunder wave is too widespread to give regigigas a major edge over lickylicky. Also, regigigas falls to common pokemon like golurk and sawk. Regigigas is just as bad as slaking. Also lickylicky has a massive niche of being able to pass wishes.EDIT: I checked and found out that even fully invested wormdam-n has higher attack than regigigas.
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