Thread approved by TI
Credit Freeroamer for intro text.
(art by Acast)
Welcome to the Monotype metagame discussion thread!
Viability Rankings / Good Cores / Monotype on Showdown / Usage Stats / Sample Teams
If you're new to the OM forum, Monotype is a really simple concept; you build a team of six Pokemon sharing one common type and fight against teams with the same restriction. You are allowed to use Pokemon with dual-typing on a team represented by either type, but every other Pokemon must share the same type. For example, you can use Scrafty, a Fighting/Dark-type Pokemon, on a Mono-Fighting or a Mono-Dark team. If you choose Scrafty, you can also use Cacturne, a Grass/Dark-type Pokemon, and create a Mono-Dark team with the two of them, but you cannot use Venusaur, a Grass/Poison-type Pokemon, because it shares no common typing with Scrafty and Cacturne.
Some Mega Evolutions change their typing upon Mega Evolving. When using a Mega Evo that changes its typing, you must base its spot on your team on its regular form's typing. What this means is that you can use Mega-Gyarados on a Mono-Flying team, but you may not use it on a Mono-Dark team. Similarly, Mega Aggron can be used on either Mono-Steel or Mono-Rock teams despite losing its Rock typing upon Mega Evolving.
Using six Pokemon of the same type can lead to some interesting team archetypes, and it challenges teambuilders to make sure the common weaknesses a certain type of Pokemon share are covered as best as possible. Still, have fun while teambuilding! This metagame allows for all kinds of Pokemon to be viable against top threats, so be imaginative. Sticking six strong Fighting-types probably won't work well against a Mono-Flying team, and using six bulky Ghost-types isn't going to be very effective against a Mono-Dark team. Effective teams in this metagame usually strike some kind of balance between power and bulk. You can't always get by with brute force!
This thread is meant for discussion; if you feel anything not on these banlists is too overpowered for the meta, this is the place to discuss it. You can find the Monotype Tiering Philosophy below. If you want to post about anything being banned, post some evidence and reasoning why you think said Pokemon is broken. Just saying something like, "I think Kyurem-Black should be banned because it has base 170 Attack." is a post that will end up getting deleted, and it won't get you taken seriously. Back up your claim with Showdown replays showing how this Pokemon is overpowered in practice. Tell us how it interacts against other types/playstyles, what checks and counters it, its role on the team type(s) where it's played (going back to the Kyurem-Black example, how does it play on Mono-Ice vs. Mono-Dragon?), and so on. If you're requesting a complex ban, make sure that there's no better ways to handle the problem first. If you need any advice or have any questions on things you think are broken but are unsure what the best way to post is, contact a member of the Monotype Council either through message or on Showdown in the Monotype room.
Monotype Tiering Philosophy
1. Keep the banlist simple.
No complex (i.e. Type-Only) bans.
This keeps us inline with Smogon’s philosophy. Being in line with Smogon's philosophies lets us continue to develop Monotype through Smogon.
2. Ban elements of the metagame that are broken, uncompetitive, or unhealthy.
Examples: Altarianite, Slowbronite, Greninja, Metagrossite, Mawilite, Talonflame, Aegislash.
We will use OU's definitions of broken, uncompetitive, and unhealthy. In addition to those, we will also discuss suspects through the framework of "Does it add to or subract from the metagame?". For examples, see below. This leaves each person open to rationalize their suspect votes within a set framework.
Suspect voters are expected to view and discuss the metagame from the perspective of multiple types, not just a single type. Included in this is the mindset that some matchups are going to be skewed and some types are going to be bad because of the inherent game mechanics such as: the type chart, priority move distribution/weakness, stat distribution among types, number of viable 'mons, and so on.
3. No single type should be overly powerful.
Examples: Damp Rock (Drizzle+Swift Swim) , Smooth Rock (Sand Stream + Sand Rush), CharX (Flying Core), Genesect (Steel Teams)
If a type becomes too powerful we will ban an element that nerfs the type and minimizes collateral damage from other types. This rule will be applied within the limitations of rule #1 (no complex bans). Just because a type has the most usage does not mean it is overly powerful.
Example for "Does it add to, or subtract from the metagame?".
There are certainly plenty of things to discuss in the ORAS metagame. Topics do not have to be limited to potentially broken Pokemon! We want to field discussion on:
Also, this is a community thread, so we want your suggestions for topics! Just send them to the council in a PM on Smogon.
As a final thought, before you post, think about what you're saying and whether it adds anything to the conversation or sparks discussion. If not, add to it until it does. The previous Monotype thread was plagued with one-liners and uninformed posts. Let's make an effort this time around to have fun while keeping a certain level of mature conversation.
Special note: This thread is for metagame discussion, not tiering philosophy discussion. If you would like to propose a policy change then please start a private message with the members of the Monotype council. If the council would like to field general discussion on the tiering philosophy then it will make a post requesting input from the community.
Credit Freeroamer for intro text.
(art by Acast)
Welcome to the Monotype metagame discussion thread!
Viability Rankings / Good Cores / Monotype on Showdown / Usage Stats / Sample Teams
Monotype has its own tiering, which is based on the tiering philosophy at the end of this post.
You may find the current banlist in the Monotype entry on the Smogdex.
You may find the current banlist in the Monotype entry on the Smogdex.
No complex (i.e. Type-Only) bans.
This keeps us inline with Smogon’s philosophy. Being in line with Smogon's philosophies lets us continue to develop Monotype through Smogon.
2. Ban elements of the metagame that are broken, uncompetitive, or unhealthy.
Examples: Altarianite, Slowbronite, Greninja, Metagrossite, Mawilite, Talonflame, Aegislash.
We will use OU's definitions of broken, uncompetitive, and unhealthy. In addition to those, we will also discuss suspects through the framework of "Does it add to or subract from the metagame?". For examples, see below. This leaves each person open to rationalize their suspect votes within a set framework.
Suspect voters are expected to view and discuss the metagame from the perspective of multiple types, not just a single type. Included in this is the mindset that some matchups are going to be skewed and some types are going to be bad because of the inherent game mechanics such as: the type chart, priority move distribution/weakness, stat distribution among types, number of viable 'mons, and so on.
3. No single type should be overly powerful.
Examples: Damp Rock (Drizzle+Swift Swim) , Smooth Rock (Sand Stream + Sand Rush), CharX (Flying Core), Genesect (Steel Teams)
If a type becomes too powerful we will ban an element that nerfs the type and minimizes collateral damage from other types. This rule will be applied within the limitations of rule #1 (no complex bans). Just because a type has the most usage does not mean it is overly powerful.
Example for "Does it add to, or subtract from the metagame?".
Scizor destroys Ice, Rock, and Fairy. However, were it banned, Ice would still be as bad as it currently is, as would Rock. Scizor is great at exploiting the weaknesses of those teams (poor defensive typings, weak to common priority). Fairy struggles because it lacks Steel resistances that are able to hit Scizor for significant damage. These are flaws of those teams, not Scizor. Other types/'mons exploit these same weaknesses when facing Ice, Rock and Fairy. Additionally, the 15 other types have reliable methods to check Scizor.
Overall, it isn't that Scizor is too strong for the metagame (broken) or undesirable to the point it inhibits skillful play (unhealthy); instead, 3 types are ill-equipped to handle Scizor in addition to many other aspects of the metagame. By banning it we would lose more than we gain.
In comparison, let's look at Talonflame. Talonflame destroyed Grass, Bug, and Fighting. While Grass doesn't hit particularly high usage, it was commonly asserted that neither Bug nor Fighting would do well before Talonflame was banned. After removing this threat, two whole types became viable, as well as easing the pressure on a struggling type.
Talonflame beat these types by exploiting their weakness to Flying-type attacks (like Scizor's Bullet Punch and Ice/Rock/Fairy). However, it did this to most types because it had a small pool of Pokemon (even by OU standards) that reliably checked/countered it. In Monotype, this was exacerbated. Spamming priority Brave Bird was a reliable strategy to beat most teams that didn't naturally resist it (Electric, Rock, Steel). By banning it we eased pressure on team-building for 15 types and promoted the usage of 2-3 types, which created a more diverse metagame. We gained far more than we lost.
Overall, it isn't that Scizor is too strong for the metagame (broken) or undesirable to the point it inhibits skillful play (unhealthy); instead, 3 types are ill-equipped to handle Scizor in addition to many other aspects of the metagame. By banning it we would lose more than we gain.
In comparison, let's look at Talonflame. Talonflame destroyed Grass, Bug, and Fighting. While Grass doesn't hit particularly high usage, it was commonly asserted that neither Bug nor Fighting would do well before Talonflame was banned. After removing this threat, two whole types became viable, as well as easing the pressure on a struggling type.
Talonflame beat these types by exploiting their weakness to Flying-type attacks (like Scizor's Bullet Punch and Ice/Rock/Fairy). However, it did this to most types because it had a small pool of Pokemon (even by OU standards) that reliably checked/countered it. In Monotype, this was exacerbated. Spamming priority Brave Bird was a reliable strategy to beat most teams that didn't naturally resist it (Electric, Rock, Steel). By banning it we eased pressure on team-building for 15 types and promoted the usage of 2-3 types, which created a more diverse metagame. We gained far more than we lost.
Posting Guidelines
added 01/23/2016
Now that we have a more stable metagame this thread isn't seeing the activity it used to, which is really a shame.added 01/23/2016
There are certainly plenty of things to discuss in the ORAS metagame. Topics do not have to be limited to potentially broken Pokemon! We want to field discussion on:
- how to deal with/play certain type matchups
- how to break common cores
- non-broken, yet diverse Pokemon
- metagame trends
- underrated threats
- and more!
Also, this is a community thread, so we want your suggestions for topics! Just send them to the council in a PM on Smogon.
Special note: This thread is for metagame discussion, not tiering philosophy discussion. If you would like to propose a policy change then please start a private message with the members of the Monotype council. If the council would like to field general discussion on the tiering philosophy then it will make a post requesting input from the community.
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