Welcome to Smogon! Take a moment to read the Introduction to Smogon for a run-down on everything Smogon, and make sure you take some time to read the global rules.
How come Mega Banette was deemed viable by the QC team enough to warrant an official, revamped analysis in the Preliminary Pokedex, but it's at even D rank in the OU viability rankings. I find this to be contradictory and I really think it should either be at least D rank or not have an official analysis in the Preliminary Pokedex whatsoever. It's also rather contradictory that we can't discuss the viability of Pokemon that aren't given analyses, although the converse of that is allowed in the case that Pokemon with an analysis can be deemed inviable and thus not worth discussing.
It's also rather contradictory that we can't discuss the viability of Pokemon that aren't given analyses, although the converse of that is allowed in the case that Pokemon with an analysis can be deemed inviable and thus not worth discussing.
Uh... I'm pretty sure we can tho? Lanturn never had an an analysis before, but someone brought it up in the XY OU Viability Rankings and it got a place.
It's nice to have a switch-in tho, and neither eq from sceptile nor EP from celebi can OHKO sp. def tran, and a ss from keldeo can (i may be wrong tho, the calc is down :S ). I can understand what you're saying with the lure business, but there's a lot more shit scept and celebi wanna do like sub and nasty pass.
That's not how speed works. 110 and 135 are base stats, but the Steadfast boost increases the actual stat. Thus, Protect isn't needed for this situation to work out. Jolly max-invested un-mega-evolved Gallade (base 80 speed) has a speed stat of 284, with a Steadfast boost that hits 426. Jolly Mega Lopunny (base 135) has a speed stat of 371. Thus, if Gallade was to remain unevolved predicting the Fake-Out, then he would outspeed and OHKO MLop the next turn without the help of Protect.
Not saying this has any bearing on Lopunny's ranking, but I (respectfully) would ask you to learn a better understanding of the game mechanics.
Actually, 135 base speed Jolly maxed is 405. But M-Gallade still outspeeds if it activates steadfast. I'd throw my hat into making M-Lop A+ for all the reasons people have been talking about. Great speed tier, has decent power to back up those high BP moves, the safest HJK user, wide assortment of options beside STAB's giving it multiple roles it can fill on one team, and top tier cuteness. Only flaws I can think of are very bulky mons. I've been using the 4 attack set but I may run other sets like PuP+Baton Pass and see how that does. It's been very easy to use M-Lop and it doesn't feel like dead weight. Also did I mention it is best cutemon?
Actually... it wouldn't matter much because MGallade is immune to flinches so if MLop did Fake out MGallade she'd be in trouble. Which is why I am kinda confused as to why MGallade would even bother with the +1 from steadfast of his base form since why not just outright kill MLop, and put the other team at a significant disadvantage than having MLop potentially switch out.
Now as for switching base form Gallade to fake out just for the boost, bear in mind the base form has 30 points less of Def and Fake out from MLop would do respectable enough damage, its just not worth it for the +1 boost in speed for most part.
All the megas i posted KO it with rocks or OHKO it period.
Why are you guys even thinking about not dropping MPinsir down? you guys seem against it. I just want it down to A- rank, thats all. Im just saying it isn't the threat it was in XY, and its speed tier isn't impressive anymore like it was in XY OU.
How come Mega Banette was deemed viable by the QC team enough to warrant an official, revamped analysis in the Preliminary Pokedex, but it's at even D rank in the OU viability rankings. I find this to be contradictory and I really think it should either be at least D rank or not have an official analysis in the Preliminary Pokedex whatsoever. It's also rather contradictory that we can't discuss the viability of Pokemon that aren't given analyses, although the converse of that is allowed in the case that Pokemon with an analysis can be deemed inviable and thus not worth discussing.
The analysis is out of date. It was removed from the actual dex and it was ultimately deemed unviable by the end. (Mega Banette only has an analysis for RU and UU). There are a few mons on the ranks with no analysis like Lanturn, but eh. Either way, Mega Banette is in fact unviable and deserves no ranking because it sucks.
Will edit or post later with something relevant if I can think of something.
You've practically answered your own question by drawing a comparison between it and two Megas. If you're using a different Mega from those, use Lucario as your replacement, like Raikou is a replacement for Mega Manectric.
Then again is that really a good comparison? From what I know Lucario is a swords dancer that procedes to demolish things mostly with Extremespeed; Lopunny and Gallade aren't really priority sweepers. Completely contradictory to the first part of this response but Lucario doesn't really do the same thing as Lop or Lade. Fighting-type swords dancer is as far as the comparison gets with Mega Gallade, and... fighting type is as far as the comparison gets with Mega Lopunny.
Okay wait, why are people asking for Mega Sharpedo to go up? I honestly think this thing should go down if anything, because I really see very little reason to use it in OU right now. Outside of I guess the ability to go mixed (and even then it's pretty weak sauce with no Life Orb boost) and more initial speed, the only thing that it has over Mega Gyarados is more initial power on Crunch, and that's rarely going to actually be useful in a real match. Either you Mega evolve immediately to take advantage of that initial power and lose the ability to gain Speed Boosts, or you use Protect to get a guaranteed Speed Boost and you end up weaker than a Mega Gyarados who used that same turn to Dragon Dance. Mega Sharpedo is really frail, it's pretty darn weak when it's not using Crunch, and it can't come in and out and do its job effectively because you can't get Speed Boosts anymore after you Mega evolve. It's heavily overshadowed by Mega Gyarados, and you want me to give up my Mega slot for this thing? No, I'd really rather see this thing drop to C Rank or something, and even that's just because it can go mixed, which is one thing that Mega Gyarados can't do. Otherwise, I'd much rather use Mega Gyarados with its far greater bulk, useful defensive utility in both its normal and Mega forms, mind games that it plays with its changing typing, and ability to boost its power far beyond what Mega Sharpedo is capable of putting out.
I personally don't use Mega-Sharpedo but I have seen it in action and imo this is a really unfair assessment of it. Mega-Sharpedo and Mega-Gyarados don't really have the same roles per se. Mega-Gyarados is a DD sweeper : it needs to actually set up to sweep teams otherwise it's simply too slow and weak to do so, and therefore has to spend a turn doing so and take a hit in the process. Mega-Sharpedo doesn't have this problem since it can just use Protect to increase its speed and secure a sweep (and can even outpace stuff like Scarf Lando-T which MGyara gets revenge killed by - another plus). As far as I can tell it's a very, very late-game cleaner who just comes in once all the priority users and things that can take one hit from it are gone, Protects once, megas and cleans. Mega-Gyarados can't pull this off as reliably since the opponent can potentially stop it from setting up. If you should be comparing Mega-Sharpedo to anything, it's probably Scolipede since it also does that whole Protect+Speed Boost thing too. Tagging MegaScizor b/c he's in love with the thing and can probably explain why it's good better than I can.
I personally don't use Mega-Sharpedo but I have seen it in action and imo this is a really unfair assessment of it. Mega-Sharpedo and Mega-Gyarados don't really have the same roles per se. Mega-Gyarados is a DD sweeper : it needs to actually set up to sweep teams otherwise it's simply too slow and weak to do so, and therefore has to spend a turn doing so and take a hit in the process. Mega-Sharpedo doesn't have this problem since it can just use Protect to increase its speed and secure a sweep (and can even outpace stuff like Scarf Lando-T which MGyara gets revenge killed by - another plus). As far as I can tell it's a very, very late-game cleaner who just comes in once all the priority users and things that can take one hit from it are gone, Protects once, megas and cleans. Mega-Gyarados can't pull this off as reliably since the opponent can potentially stop it from setting up. If you should be comparing Mega-Sharpedo to anything, it's probably Scolipede since it also does that whole Protect+Speed Boost thing too. Tagging MegaScizor b/c he's in love with the thing and can probably explain why it's good better than I can.
Mega Gyarados is a Pokemon with a handy defensive typing in both forms, Intimidate on at least the initial switch, and 95 / 109 / 130 bulk in its Mega form. It's not that hard to set up with it unless your opponent just really outplays you, and once you do set up, you've got a much more dangerous sweeper on your hands than Mega Sharpedo. Sharp can outspeed Scarf Lando-T and such, I'll give it that (and even then, you need a +Spe nature to safely outspeed Scarf Lando-T, which further cuts into your power), but it still doesn't hit very hard when it's not using Crunch. Heck, even Crunch isn't as strong as you'd think; it's hitting about as hard as a Hydro Pump/Fire Blast from something with a base 108 SpA stat or so and a Life Orb. Not bad, but nowhere near the wallbreaking power of Keldeo's Specs Hydro Pump, Terrakion's Life Orb/Band Close Combat, Charizard X's Flare Blitz, or even Mega Salamence's Return/Double Edge. Its other moves are far weaker. I get that this power issue is more forgivable for a designated late-game sweeper, but as my good friend Yamborski pointed out in the Sharpedo thread:
I know it is a "late game sweeper" but it literally does that one thing. It uses up a Mega slot that could be used on something like Gyarados who is actually useful pre-mega or Salamence who is... well, Salamence.
I get that it can work. Lots of things can technically work. The question is whether or not Mega Sharpedo is worth using for your Mega slot when all you're really getting is a late-game sweeper that offers no defensive synergy and honestly only has one attack with impressive levels of strength. In a metagame that was just swamped with a large handful of new great Mega Pokemon on top of the bunch that we already had before, just being a good late-game sweeper is not enough to warrant getting used much over other Mega Pokemon that bring so much more to the table. This is not a Pokemon that needs to be bumped up, and I'd honestly rather see it among the C ranks, C+ if you really like it that much.
tbh i kinda gotta go with Agent Gibbs as Mega Gyara and Mega Sharpedo are quite similar, one is just better. In particular, Mega Gyarados is better in my opinion because it has access to Dance, and MSharpedo obviously can't afford a stat boost slot. Also, Msharpedo is frail, but it definitely doesn't have no pros. Mega Sharpedo is more of a high risk high reward mon, which is ok. It also gets higher Speed and a +1 boost than Mega Gyarados. It is also arguable that Sharpedo is stronger than non boosted MGyara cause of its ability, Strong Jaws. Sadly, its ability doesn't bring it far, as it has access to few Fang moves and his coverage is horrible. Mega Gyarados has access to Dance and has actual coverage, like EQ, Waterfall, Ice Fang, Crunch, etc to destroy many pokemon. Even if the pokemon aren't SE against it, MGyarados's amazing 160 Attack will probably kill them otherwise.
The biggest drawback Mega Sharpedo has is that if it is forced out after it Mega Evolves, it loses its speed boosts for good, and is stuck with 105 Base Speed, which isn't high by today's standards; heck, Mega Sharpedo would most likely be neutral natured since pretty much all run (need) Adamant, so things like Garchomp and Landorus-I aren't afraid of it.
Thus, if Sharpedo is brought out early, it cannot go for the Mega Evolution willy-nilly since it most likely only gets one chance to sweep, and unboosted Sharpedo is really not all that strong. As a result, Sharpedo not only doesn't contribute defensively (unlike Gyarados), but doesn't even contribute offensively since it cannot significantly hurt its own checks or even threats in general pre-Mega very much at all, and only really busts out the power late-game.
Alright so I was waiting to discuss mega sharpedo but it seems that time has already come. So I will get into what I think about him. First I will say that I have used most of the new megas(not the shitty ones), and mega sharpedo is the one I have used the most, because I think its the most fun to use. But it isnt even in the same conversation when talking about megas like sableye, metagross, mence, gallade, etc.. But it does have its advantages, as well as disadvantages. So I will get into both and end with where I think it should be ranked. I have alot to say so I will try and organize it best I can.
Mega gyarados is overall better than sharpedo, that is very safe to say. However they do not perform the same role, which makes me hesitant to say that mega gyarados directly outclasses mega sharpedo. Here are some calcs that will help highlight what I am about to discuss.
252+ Atk Strong Jaw Sharpedo Crunch vs. 252 HP / 88+ Def Ferrothorn: 153-181 (43.4 - 51.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery(impressive calc)
+1 252+ Atk Gyarados Crunch vs. 252 HP / 88+ Def Ferrothorn: 165-195 (46.8 - 55.3%) -- 14.1% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
So this shows that in a way, if sharpedo is pre mega and he uses protect then mega evolves, as long as he is using crunch he basically just got a DD in for free. Whereas mega gyara wouldve had to take a hit or risk a coverage move or status, this ability becomes very helpful against offensive teams that are all very fast and hard hitters. He is able to handle alot of mons in unique ways, like greninja will most likely use a move like gunk shot on the protect, then he loses his dark type resist and now can get outsped and OHKOd, or mons like latios or gengar who just get protected on and then subsequently OHKOd, or they switch out leaving sharpedo free to switch out and keep his pre mega form to try and sweep another day. Basically I am saying that mega sharpedo is just better to have against offensive teams, as you can (somewhat) effectively get a dragon dance against most of their mons for little to no risk, only risk is like substitute or something, whereas mega gyara has fewer opportunities to setup.
Then against stall teams sharpedo also has absolutely no problem just mega evolving turn 1 an firing off crunchs that basically nothing can take. Here are some common stall mons taking his crunch
252+ Atk Strong Jaw Sharpedo Crunch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Skarmory: 129-153 (38.6 - 45.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Strong Jaw Sharpedo Crunch vs. 252 HP / 240+ Def Mega Venusaur: 144-169 (39.5 - 46.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252+ Atk Strong Jaw Sharpedo Crunch vs. 232 HP / 252+ Def Alomomola: 189-223 (35.7 - 42.1%) -- 90.2% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Strong Jaw Sharpedo Crunch vs. 240 HP / 0 Def Tentacruel: 322-381 (89.1 - 105.5%) -- 37.5% chance to OHKO
252+ Atk Strong Jaw Sharpedo Crunch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Slowbro: 216-254 (54.8 - 64.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery(megabro)
52+ Atk Strong Jaw Sharpedo Crunch vs. 4 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Chansey: 301-355 (46.8 - 55.2%) -- 71.9% chance to 2HKO
252+ Atk Strong Jaw Sharpedo Crunch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Sableye: 141-166 (46.3 - 54.6%) -- 59.8% chance to 2HKO
I mean these are the mons that can best take his hits, and even then if you have a layer of rocks or spikes up, most of them cant even take 2 hits let alone be considered a counter. There are plenty of otehr stall mons that just get flat out OHKOd, or at least take way too much to ever be in to try and take a hit. So he also offers more immediate power against stall teams and makes it so the 2 most popular stall megas cant even switch in(slowbro and sableye). But I know you are all already saying that mega gyara with waterfall/crunch/taunt/sub, just destroys most of these mons anyway but my only argument is that while mega gyara has the tools to handle these, it still requires some level of prediction and time to setup, and leaves the stall opponent with a chance to react/be prepared for mega gyara. And sharpedo has the advantage of hitting really hard right off the bat and then either try and get the crunch defense drop or waterfall flinch, or just switch out as the oppoennt is forced to recover because you just dealt like 50% to something they thought was a hard counter.
Mega sharpedo does his job well against balance, however mega gyara is probably better against balance in just about every way so Ill just leave this one alone.
All in all, Sharpedo has unique traits that allow him to adapt to the playstyle he is playing against and allows ample flexibility to assess how you want to play him. If your opponent has no fast mons you can just mega evolve and fire off insane crunchs after softening up the team. Or you can preserve him to late game and safely set up to +1 or even +2 speed and then clean from there. I honestly would put sharpedo, on par with a few of the mons in B+, mainly the mons reliant on rain. But due to the opportunity cost of giving up better megas like gyarados, as well as the risk of small setbacks when using protect like agility metagross, or getting substituted on, I think sharpedo will be perfectly fine in B rank.
P.s. I have had a lot of success using mega sharpedo, which may be skewing my opinion on him. But I think the fact that he is an easy mon to build around also is a bonus. I have plenty more to say so if there are any points you'd like me to clarify/expand on, just let me know!
Honestly, the advantage of getting a free boost versus offense isn't as big a deal when Mega Gyarados can still find opportunities to set up against offense given its solid typing in both forms, great bulk, and Intimidate. Let's look at some examples from the Team Showcase forum.
Here, Mega Gyarados can set up pretty safely on Garchomp, Greninja provided it's running Dark Pulse > HP Grass (and even if it runs HP Grass, you can force your opponent into mind games with Ice Beam vs HP Grass), Latios after it has KOed something with Draco Meteor, and Landorus-T trapped into anything but U-turn (although this Landorus-T in particular does have Superpower to revenge kill later). It can also set up on Bisharp pretty nicely depending on the situation.
This one's trickier, but again, you can set up on Latios after Draco Meteor and Landorus-T locked into anything but U-turn. You also might be able to get up a free Substitute on Rotom-W's Will-O-Wisp or something, or you can get up a Dragon Dance as you force Heatran out.
Again, you've got Latios and Landorus-T, both of which can offer potential setup opportunities. You can also get into Close Combat vs Stone Edge mindgames with Infernape if you're a little desperate.
Another Latios, what are the odds. Keldeo locked into Hydro Pump or Secret Sword (or even Scald, if the opponent isn't lucky lol) is a good setup target, Heatran can be forced out for a free Dragon Dance, and you can again set up on Bisharp depending on the circumstances.
So even with these teams, Gyarados has at least one or two opportunities to set up against each team, if not more. And of course, that's just if you want a fairly easy setup where you're taking well under 50% damage from the opponent. Gyarados's great bulk is such that you can afford to set up on some stronger hits and still pull off a sweep. So yeah, the ability to get a safe Speed Boost isn't that huge of an advantage when a good player is going to be able to find opportunities for Gyarados to Dragon Dance anyway.
As far as those stall calcs go, just remember that you're only talking about Crunch here. Some of those calcs look nice, but once you're forced to use something other than Crunch, your damage output drops a ton. For instance, Clefable is taking <40% max from Waterfall, so you pretty much lose that one unless you get lucky with flinches. You can't even 2HKO Chesnaught with a Strong Jaw-boosted Ice Fang, so you'll need help to win that matchup. Similar case with physically defensive Mandibuzz (although Stealth Rock is more effective here). But again, as you said yourself, Mega Gyarados can beat most of those same Pokemon with Substitute or Taunt in that last moveslot, so this still isn't a huge point in Sharpedo's favor at all. Then there's the fact that if Sharpedo isn't hitting something super effectively or hitting something really frail with a neutral Crunch, it isn't OHKOing much at all, and it doesn't have the option of boosting its power like Gyarados does. As long as Sharpedo can't KO the thing in front of it, it's going to be forced to take a hit, which is much easier said that done when you're sporting 70 / 70 / 65 bulk; while Mega Gyarados can shrug off a Specs Keldeo's Hydro Pump for instance, Mega Sharpedo is losing most of its health to the darn thing.
But again, above all else is the fact that Mega Sharpedo is taking up your Mega slot. In the A-S Ranks alone, we've got a ton of great Mega choices in Salamence, Charizard X, Charizard Y, Metagross, Gardevoir, Venusaur, Gallade, Scizor, Altaria, Heracross, Gyarados, Diancie, Latias, Slowbro, Manectric, Lopunny, Sableye, Sceptile, Aerodactyl, and Tyranitar, and I just don't think that Mega Sharpedo is worth giving up the perks that these other Megas bring to the table when Sharpedo itself offers so little that can't be done by something else. It's a cool late-game sweeper, but it's not like you can't find opportunities to set up Mega Gyarados (or other Mega sweepers, for that matter) against offense. It has a hard hitting Crunch, but its other moves aren't that impressive, and some of the same bulky Pokemon it pressures can still be beaten by a Mega Gyarados with Taunt or Sub. Meanwhile, it's not a team player like so many of these other Megas are as it cannot offer any forms of team support nor solid defensive utility. Its pros are solidly matched by its cons, and with the competition for a Mega slot being tougher than ever, I see very little reason to use Mega Sharpedo. It seems like a textbook example of a C Rank Pokemon: something that can work effectively and might have a small niche but also has a significant enough list of flaws and opportunity cost that you'll always have to ask yourself why you aren't using something better.
Anyway, I won't belabor the point any further because it's late and I've said about all I can think of to say on the matter. I'd really rather see this thing drop to C+ rank, but if nothing else, don't raise it any further. I honestly find it hard to believe that a Pokemon that carries such a heavy opportunity cost with so few benefits over Mega Gyarados could be ranked as high as B or even B+ rank.
Agent Gibbs yeah you raise good points, I just dont see how, even given what you said, you are coming up with C+?
But again, above all else is the fact that Mega Sharpedo is taking up your Mega slot. In the A-S Ranks alone, we've got a ton of great Mega choices in Salamence, Charizard X, Charizard Y, Metagross, Gardevoir, Venusaur, Gallade, Scizor, Altaria, Heracross, Gyarados, Diancie, Latias, Slowbro, Manectric, Lopunny, Sableye, Sceptile, Aerodactyl, and Tyranitar, and I just don't think that Mega Sharpedo is worth giving up the perks that these other Megas bring to the table when Sharpedo itself offers so little that can't be done by something else.
I would say that it is unfair to be comparing him to S-A rank mons because that is not where I said I would like to see him placed, we should be ranking the megas where they would truly lie on the viability rankings and then factor the opportunity cost in only when you are deciding what mega to put on your team(opportunity cost shouldnt be factored into his ranking). I only say this because then why would everybody not just use the S-A+ rank megas? Sharpedo is unique and if we compare him to the mons in B rank or even B+ I think its clear that he either is on par with or surpasses the mons that would be filling his role.
I will say that we might need to have a discussion on how to factor in opportunity cost as it is relatively new thing to consider in viability rankings, but like I said, I see no reason to consider it until it is time to pick what mega you want to use.(I will expand on this as I hear some of your guys input)
As far as those stall calcs go, just remember that you're only talking about Crunch here. Some of those calcs look nice, but once you're forced to use something other than Crunch, your damage output drops a ton. For instance, Clefable is taking <40% max from Waterfall, so you pretty much lose that one unless you get lucky with flinches. You can't even 2HKO Chesnaught with a Strong Jaw-boosted Ice Fang, so you'll need help to win that matchup. Similar case with physically defensive Mandibuzz (although Stealth Rock is more effective here). But again, as you said yourself, Mega Gyarados can beat most of those same Pokemon with Substitute or Taunt in that last moveslot, so this still isn't a huge point in Sharpedo's favor at all. Then there's the fact that if Sharpedo isn't hitting something super effectively or hitting something really frail with a neutral Crunch, it isn't OHKOing much at all, and it doesn't have the option of boosting its power like Gyarados does. As long as Sharpedo can't KO the thing in front of it, it's going to be forced to take a hit, which is much easier said that done when you're sporting 70 / 70 / 65 bulk; while Mega Gyarados can shrug off a Specs Keldeo's Hydro Pump for instance, Mega Sharpedo is losing most of its health to the darn thing.
I only used crunch because why would he use anything else? The ones I did are very common stall mons that get neutrally hit very hard by crunch(I didnt do any of the common psychic stall mons because he obviously just destroys them, so he is hitting damn near every stall mon very hard with crunch, and his last two moveslot are only for SE coverage that also will usually get the 2hko at least), he would only use waterfall if it was SE, which would be hitting things like heatran very hard obviously. There is also the fact that sharpedo has competition in his last moveslot whether it be ice fang or poison jab, I am not going to argue about chesnaught because obviously a defensive grass fighting type will beat a water dark type, I doubt gyara could do much better. But with clefable he can land the 2hko with only a touch of prior damage with poison jab, and he can 2hko mandibuzz with ice fang after rocks, so he kind of has to pick what he wasnts to deal with but mandibuzz isnt very common(at least from what I have seen) and clefbale would be surprised by the poison jab(regardless tho I pair sharpedo with stallbreaker talon so most of this doesnt matter to me because talon damn near 6-0s most stall teams). The other thing you brought up is keldeo who is a huge problem for sharpedo and running zen headbut is basically a gimmick, but keldeo is one of the like 2-3 mons common on offense that the rest of sharpedo's team is there to handle, I am speaking from experience when I say that on most offensvie teams sharpedo can OHKO about 4-5 mons and all I have to do is basically sack my 5 other mons just to get damage on the other two and then because of how safe sharpedo is getting that speed boost I am guaranteed a sweep, I had plenty of replays but they are all gone now :(
But yeah if we take away the opportunity cost argument and honestly compare him to the other B mons I think he fits in well there. If we want to put more weight into opportunity cost then I guess we can keep him in B- but honestly I would think that means that more megas are going to be dropping, because we cant just pick and choose times we want to weigh OC more heavily than others.
Edit: On second thought its more advantageous for me the lower sharpedo is, so I whole-heartedly support his demotion to C+ hell I think he could even find a happy home in D rank.
I think the problem is, that there are just too many Megas (most of them are sadly in above B+ Ranking) to choose from, so it just does not seem really appealing to even use Mega Sharpedo. I actually love that it got Huge Jaws and it definitivly has a niche in OU unlike Audino.
I would say that it is unfair to be comparing him to S-A rank mons because that is not where I said I would like to see him placed, we should be ranking the megas where they would truly lie on the viability rankings and then factor the opportunity cost in only when you are deciding what mega to put on your team(opportunity cost shouldnt be factored into his ranking). I only say this because then why would everybody not just use the S-A+ rank megas? Sharpedo is unique and if we compare him to the mons in B rank or even B+ I think its clear that he either is on par with or surpasses the mons that would be filling his role.
I'm not just comparing him to A-S Rank Pokemon. I'm comparing him to other great Mega Pokemon. It's one thing for something like Chesnaught or Amoonguss to be overshadowed a bit by something in the higher ranks, but it's different for a Mega Pokemon. You're not just competing with a Pokemon or two that fulfill similar roles; you're having to compete with a whole host of Mega Pokemon that offer a wide variety of niches and advantages, and you'll always have to ask the question of whether or not the Mega you want to use is worth the opportunity cost of not using one of many other great Megas. In Sharpedo's case, I'm just not seeing it. But of course...
But yeah if we take away the opportunity cost argument and honestly compare him to the other B mons I think he fits in well there. If we want to put more weight into opportunity cost then I guess we can keep him in B- but honestly I would think that means that more megas are going to be dropping, because we cant just pick and choose times we want to weigh OC more heavily than others.
...I think this is the big issue here. If we weren't counting opportunity cost, then I'd be fine with him being in B Rank or so because it's not half bad in its own right. However, viability goes beyond the question of "Is this thing useful?" and looks at the question of "Is this thing worth using on my team?" When you ask that second question, you have to start taking into account the competition a Pokemon receives, and that competition just happens to be a lot rougher for a Mega Pokemon given the restriction that you can only use one per match. Were this not the case, Mega Latios would probably be ranked A+ or something because I'd gladly argue that it is better overall than regular Latios, but it's ranked lower because the mild advantages it offers over regular Latios are not worth taking up your Mega slot (unless you just really don't have a need for another Mega). The reason that so many of these other Mega Pokemon are ranked so high is because they bring several unique tools to the table that nothing else can offer and have very strong advantages of their own, and that makes them much more worth the Mega slot on certain teams. Now, if you don't think that these perks outweigh the opportunity cost of being a Mega Pokemon, then feel free to argue for some of these other Megas to drop.
Bottom line, it really depends on how much you're willing to weigh the opportunity cost of being a Mega Pokemon. If you don't want to weigh it very heavily at all, then I'm fine if you want to keep it in B-, raise it to B, whatever (and raise Mega Latios up to A+ while you're at it lol). If you are going to weigh that opportunity cost pretty heavily, though, I'll still stand behind a drop.
Unless I am horribly, horribly blind, I see no MMawile in these rankings. Any thoughts? I honestly can't see it going lower than A-, it's still a friggin powerhouse.
Also, I feel like there's a bit of an angle that I haven't seen mentioned perhaps because it's unnecessary, but with all these new Megas around power and viability aren't the only factors, but also surprise.
Certain Megas you know what exactly they'll use and also if they're Mega or not, like Beedrill, Pidgeot, Gallade, Sharpedo, etc. You see these mons on the opponent's team, you know that's their Mega, and have a general idea of what they'll use and what your game plan should be. However, Gyarados, Sableye, TTar, Garchomp, etc. are both good or viable with or without their megas, so it keeps you or the opponent guessing before the match starts. Not to mention Charizard which you don't know which Mega it is until it beats your face in. I'm not really sure what I'm trying to say here but I feel like the ambiguity of some potential Mega mons is what gives them the edge over the blatantly obvious ones. Perhaps this could have some effect on the rankings of certain mons?
