OU CCAT: Zoroark [See Post #663]

[Katakiri]

I've tried out most of the sets posted to find my favs out of the bunch.

1. ~ Zoroark (Illusion) - Katakiri
2. ~ Jirachi (Choice Specs & Doom Desire) - ginganinja
3. ~ Zapdos (Life Orb) - Tomahawk9
4. ~ Yanmega (Choice Specs & Tinted Lens) - skidilidy
5. ~ Espeon (Calm Mind & Baton Pass) - NoJohns

I don't think I could say any more about Zoroark. It's a great Pokemon, it demands creativity to use, and it's just all-around fun. I would absolutely love to see what DST could do with this this thing.

Oh god do I love the concept of Specs Doom Desire. After testing, Heatran or Gliscor with Protect screws it over, but that's easily dealt with and Terrakion or w/e partner you use that beats Heatran can set-up in it's face as it Protects. I'm personally running Psychic over Thunderbolt. I could see this really "breaking" some Pokemon since their counters can't switch in without getting KOed. Doom Desire + CB Terrakion CC. Good luck.

Zapdos is just so underrated. I've been using it on & off for a bit, and it really hasn't lost it's shine.

OMGYanmega. I used to love using that set. But I could never really get it to sweep. Not sure if it was just me or Yanmega, but either way, one thing's for sure; nothing can switch in for free on this thing.

Espeon is solid. I could easily see it doing great in OU, but 90% of the time, it's a Dual Screener. EspyJump is perfect to break that mold and let loose Espeon's potential.

 

[DrunkDemon]

1. Lapras (Dragon Dance & Hydration Rest)-
2. Mew (Nasty Plot)
3. Metagross (Gravity)
4. Yanmega (Choice Specs and Tinted Lense)
5. Abomasnow (Physical Attacker)

 

[CrimsonFire]

1. Kingdra (Rain Dance)
2. Suicune (Calm Mind & Tailwind)
3. Lucario (Nasty Plot)
4. Zoroark (Illusion)
5. Scrafty (Dragon Dance)

 

[SlimMan]

1. Gravity Metagross
2. CM + Tailwind Suicune
3. SD + BP Mienshao
4. CM + BP Espeon
5. BU Heracross

Gravity Metagross took my #1 spot. I've always wanted to build a Gravity team, but never gotten around to it. The whole strategy of Gravity fits under the "forgotten jewel" or "untouched wonder" that CCAT attempts to expose. Gravity teams, from people I've talked to who have played them, are fun as crap to use, and it structures itself well for the CCAT. It gives us a definite direction to go in (Gravity team) but it avoids being formulaic like other types of teams (Baton Pass, Hail, etc.). Nothing is more satisfying than a Rotom-W switching into your Mamoswine..... and getting OHKOed by EQ on the switch-in. Or Bronzong switching into your Landorus.... and getting OHKOed by EQ on the switch-in. Having read the article, I have a basic understanding of how Gravity Stall works, but I've never been great at Stall and ginga could work that much better than I could (having written the article). A Gravity team would be excellent and is absolutely what I want to win.

Next is Tailwind Suicune. Tailwind teams are like Gravity teams in my book. Exactly like Gravity teams. I've always wanted to make one, but never have. Same deal. People I've talked to say that they are one of the most fun types of teams. Once again, it gives us a direction, but doesn't limit us to a certain path. Very similar circumstances to a Gravity team. Honestly, I'd be about as equally happy with this as with Metagross. Oh, your Latios is about to sweep me? Tailwind. Revenge with something slower like Salamence. Oh, my Specs Heatran is too slow to get off a sweep? Tailwind. Not it out-speeds and wrecks your whole team. Tailwind is another great team type to use now. But for pete's sake people, please vote for this or Gravity.

SD Mienshao was third. I have actually used this one, and he almost never failed to have someone end up with a +2. This nigga OHKOes Skarmory after SR at +2. Like a boss. His HJK has the same power as Landorus LO Earthquake..... in sand. Like a boss. He out-speeds base 100's, which is a requirement for any non-bulky sweeper. Mienshao is almost always Choiced or 4 Attacks LO, and this is quite the underrated set. It's HJK hits just as hard as any other Mienshao set, there is no loss of power. I voted for Mienshao because I know from experience that it's great.

CM Espeon was my pick for four. This set is really similar to the SD Mienshao set, yet different at the same time. In terms of my reasons for voting, anyway. Really, the only difference is that Espeon is more meant to BP, while Mienshao BP's more as a secondary option. But Espeon is excellent at getting the CM and BP off to a teammate, many times multiple CM's. In the hands of something like Lucario, Latios, etc., that's quite deadly. Besides, who doesn't like escaping from Pursuit unscathed? Espeon does not necessarily mean a full BP team, and indeed I would urge us to avoid that. But good set, it was worthy of my vote.

My final choice was BU Heracross. I nominated him, and I still love this guy. jc may have criticized him, but that changes little in my opinion. Most of his benefits were pointed out in my original nomination, so I'll avoid that here. But I know we can build a great team around this guy, so let's vote for Heracross!

 

[typon77]

1. Staraptor (Sub Roost)
2. Wobbuffet (Speedy)
3. Salamence (Wish)
4. Darmanitan (All Out Attacker)
5. Hydreigon (Choice Specs)


I know, I know. I voted for my own set as #1, but I truly feel that Sub Roost Staraptor is too good to ignore. Flying is probably the best offensive typing in the metagame to just spam, and the only things that are bulky enough to take Flying attacks are Steels and Rocks (Electrics have terribad def in general). Plus, it bluffs choice sets like nothing else. The opponent will try to lure a Brave Bird, then switch to a resistance, only to have their Flying-Resist destroyed by CC. Its just sooooo powerful, has great two move coverage, and can alleviate a physical recoil-move using pokemon's two least favorite things, residual damage and status, with Sub and Roost. You really have to try it before you can judge it, because it is excellent in the metagame.

Wobb was second because it is, no doubt, the best mon to use on a Hyper Offense team. Back when Deoxys-S was legal, I made a team with Dual Screens Deoxys-S, Wobb, and 4 Sweepers (SD Luke, DD Mence, Double Booster Terrakion, and SubCM Latios), and it got up to 1350 on the ladder in a matter of a few hours. Wobb can set up a sweep so well, and under screens, can manage to set up a few times, as CounterCoat still does enough...

WishMence was chosen for sheer surprise value, and because i like using another bulky dragon that is Multiscale Nite... Wish is helpful for the team, and Intimidate is always great :) *OMG RHYME*

I picked Darmanitan because it 2HKO'd literally everything without Flash Fire in the sun (Even Kingdra, a 4x resist). Switch in on a slower wall that it rapes like Ferrothorn, Forretress, or other slowmons, and your opponent will lose a pokemon. So powerful. Not higher on the list because its frail and kills itself in like 2 hits, especially if it Flare Blitz's a Blissey...

Specs Hydreigon is last because Hydreigon is cool... In all seriousness, I would have rather used an Expert Belt, 4 Attacks Hydreigon because I'm a fan of bluffing choice items. Still, Specs set hits hard and fairly fast, and Dragon is still a great typing.

 

[TrollFreak]

Hydreigon (Choice Specs) - CommandurrClowncrete
Kingdra (Rain Dance) - Ningildo
Mienshao (Swords Dance & Baton Pass) - ginganinja
Salamence (Choice Specs) - BowlArt64
Infernape (Work Up) - TrollFreak

 

[jc104]

I know it's a bit late now, since loads of people have already voted, but I've been testing SubRoost Staraptor, a popular choice, and I'm afraid to say that in my hands it's failing miserably. OK, so Staraptor is powerful and has good neutral coverage between two moves. But I'm using Staraptor on a team that's designed for Medicham (with added Rapid Spin support), a team which actively tries to provide lots of really easy switch-ins, and I'm still finding it impossible to switch Staraptor in. Maybe it's that not only do I have to bring Staraptor in after a KO or something, but that I also have to have rocks off the field at the same time. Anyway, the upshot is that Staraptor ends up death fodder in nearly every match. There's usually something on the opponents team that can just about wall it, and lots of stuff that outruns and OHKOes it extremely comfortably. Substitute and Roost were both a huge waste of space, as even most walls did not need to bother statusing Staraptor or anything. Brave Bird is extremely spammable, and Close Combat usually only needed against slower opponents, so I see no need to scout with the move either.

So, if I were to use Staraptor in OU, it would either be the scarf set, or a straight-up attacking set with Life Orb or sharp beak. I can't say I'm totally convinced by those either.

Also, could someone explain to me why you'd want to Baton Pass with Mienshao? You set up SD with a really powerful and pretty fast pokemon, and then you for some reason need to pass it on to something else? Just kill stuff, seriously. Mienshao does not have the bulk of a dedicated baton passer either. So yeah I just don't get it.

I'm starting to like bulky CB Heracross though. Shame it's too late to submit it.

 

[Saitsuofleaves]

I know it's a bit late now, since loads of people have already voted, but I've been testing SubRoost Staraptor, a popular choice, and I'm afraid to say that in my hands it's failing miserably. OK, so Staraptor is powerful and has good neutral coverage between two moves. But I'm using Staraptor on a team that's designed for Medicham (with added Rapid Spin support), a team which actively tries to provide lots of really easy switch-ins, and I'm still finding it impossible to switch Staraptor in. Maybe it's that not only do I have to bring Staraptor in after a KO or something, but that I also have to have rocks off the field at the same time. Anyway, the upshot is that Staraptor ends up death fodder in nearly every match. There's usually something on the opponents team that can just about wall it, and lots of stuff that outruns and OHKOes it extremely comfortably. Substitute and Roost were both a huge waste of space, as even most walls did not need to bother statusing Staraptor or anything. Brave Bird is extremely spammable, and Close Combat usually only needed against slower opponents, so I see no need to scout with the move either.

So, if I were to use Staraptor in OU, it would either be the scarf set, or a straight-up attacking set with Life Orb or sharp beak. I can't say I'm totally convinced by those either.

I'm starting to like bulky CB Heracross though. Shame it's too late to submit it.

Well, I'll admit I'm not the most read up on this, as I'm essentially a rookie. But from what I understand, you're not supposed to really switch in Staraptor short of expecting your opponent to switch as well. He's not bulky enough to take many hits, and he gets hurt hard by SR. The point is to clear the way, and then let him in through a suicide, or maybe a slow VoltTurn. Then the opponent will usually see Staraptor, automatically assume it's a CB set, and will possibly switch out unless it thinks it can take a CB Brave Bird/Close Combat. On the switch, you can put a free Sub up and do work.

Or you can continue the deception of Staraptor as a CB set, since Sharp Beak Brave Bird will still do great damage, and will have no LO damage to give anything away. By the time they realize he's not a CB set, you should already have set up.

Preparation is key, have to make sure SR is cleared out and you have to take out any possible walls and checks, but at most that's likely just two Pokes on most teams from what I can gather from OU right now. Take those two out and you can clear a team quite easily.

 

[iamQmai]

It's perfectly fine to vote for only two things, but you need to express a preference between them. Otherwise this would need to be done randomly.

Banded Aggron first preference. Specs Jellicent second.

 

[jc104]

I'm not switching Staraptor into attacks generally; it's all U-turns, Wishes and double switches. I've been playing this game for some time. I know how to get stuff in. And, as I said, the team was positively designed for this purpose. The problem is that the number of Pokemon Staraptor can even force out is shockingly low. Of course I could get Staraptor in, but only so that it could die on the next turn.

You can't bluff CB with a Sharp Beak unless your opponent makes a serious error. You might be able to bluff scarf just about, but even then you're pushing it.

edit: Yes, I know. I was using it in place of Medicham, a wallbreaker to end all wallbreakers. And, what can I say, Staraptor didn't break through any walls. Slight problem there lol.

edit2: I would be totally open to CB. That probably does what I expect Staraptor to do. I'll be testing that now, expecting completely different results.

 

[Angel Masamune]

When I was using Staraptor I honestly didn't care much about SR being on my field, when there is an opportunity to get him in safely throw that bird in there and punch some really big holes in the opponents team. I did have rapid spin support, but when I could bring Staraptor in after something died for example I didn't think "Oh noes, I didn't spin the rocks away yet", it was more like "Staraptor loses 25% health, opponent potentially loses one or two pokemon". And it does get its KO's pretty easily, either 2HKOing something slower trying to wall it or crippling it for the rest of the match. And pretty much nothing faster than it can come in safely. There are also opportunities to Roost some damage off here and there, like a Gliscor protecting after the switch in to avoid the 2HKO for example.

Also get rid of the mindset that it is supposed to sweep. Base 100 speed just isn't gonna cut it with no way to boost it. It's more of a wall breaker which can sweep if you get rid of priority and faster things.

 

[ginganinja]

On Staraptor

I have not actually used the set currently listed, however I did test CB and it was VERY effective. I tended to bring in Staraptor after a KO, and then spam Brave Bird and 2KO everything. Obviously, Sub Roost is going to play differently but I imagine that, in practise, you would bring it in after a KO and do some damage. I don't really have much to say on the subject however, but I do know it CAN be used effectively.

On Mienshao

Baton Pass is kinda good against all of the slower walls that you don't beat. Shit like Jellicent and Reuniclus pretty much hands down beat you, and Baton Pass provides both an escape route and a means to give something you switch into, a +2 boost. For example I used it with a specially defensive, Lum Tyranitar so I would be able to pass a +2 boost it it, and then nail the psychic or ghost types that tried to beat it. Against faster teams, I admit, its usage is kinda limited but then again, Mienshao doesn't have many other options that fits there besides HP Ice and Fake Out (and in my experience Gliscor doesn't stay in on your often plus you can always BP out). If SD + BP Mienshao wins again, if ppl feel that Baton Pass is less useful than HP Ice then I would be happy to drop it. Again, as I said before, we can make slight changes to certain sets so long as they are not massivly different. For example, we could prolly not switch BU Heracross and make it a bulky CB but I imagine we could (hypothetically) give NP Celebi HP Ice for common Dragons that might wall it. So long as its a simplistic change, and the community + person who nominated the pokemon have no issues then I consider it fine.

Still no definite deadline as yet but it will prolly be between 1-2 weeks of the ballot being posted

 

[Saitsuofleaves]

1.Lucario (Nasty Plot) - ThePillsburyDoughBoy

2.Metagross (Gravity) - ginganinja

3.Abomasnow (Physical Leech Seed)

4.Zoroark (Illusion) - Katakiri

5.Aerodactyl (Life Orb and Taunt) - Nubagator

Anyway, personally I think this would be a solid 5 for me to nominate I guess.

1. Lucario is one of my favorites, and actually my main when I do play it, and it's usually Nasty Plot set. I'm actually more surprised people don't use it as much. With one Plot it can usually annihilate an entire team on his excellent SpA coverage. I've destroyed entire teams with him, and I'm still pretty damn green in this game, and I make a ton of mistakes, but it's pretty hard to screw him up. At the very least, when set up properly, he can take out half a team. In fact, I dunno if he should technically qualify just for the fact that I think everyone's...aware of how good a SpA based Lucario can be.

2. I've never seen a Gravity team at work, and Metagross is cool so that's it.

3. First team I wanted to see when at least taking on learning how CompPoke works is a Hail team, or at least, one with Abomasnow at the forefront.

4. Zoroark is a damn unique Pokemon, and I'd like to see a team built around HIM and how well he not only tricks the opponent but stands in his own right.

5. Aerodactyl just seems like Gen 1 fun. Just interested to see how he could perform in this format, nothing more really.

 

[Prplcheez]

1. Lucario (Choice Specs)
2. Victini (Choice Band)
3. Cobalion (Bulky Support)
4. Jirachi (Choice Specs & Doom Desire
5. Salamence (Wish)

I'm incredibly interested in seeing how the Specs Lucario set plays out, and how people can build teams to work with it. It's a surprise that so many people run Physical Lucario given that his SpAtk is higher.

Victini is really awesome, but not used by enough people. Entirely too many people underestimate a 180 base power move coming off of 100 base attack + STAB + Choice Band.

I've never really seen Cobalion used effectively in a competitive setting and the set looked really cool.

I've always loved Doom Desire but have been disappointed that it typically isn't competitively viable. Would love to see it happen.

Didn't even know Salamence had access to Wish. Would be a huge surprise factor.

 

[BTzz]

1) Zoroark (Illusion) - Katakiri
2) Wobbuffet (Speedy) - BTzz
3) Kingdra (Rain Dance) - Ningildo
4) Jirachi (Choice Specs & Doom Desire) - ginganinja
5) Zapdos (Life Orb) - Tomahawk9

Zoroark and Wobbs would provide the most interesting teambuiling imo, encouraging participants to think a bit more outside of the box. Kingdra is cool. It's a nasty sweeper in rain, and the fact that it sets up rain itself already gives the team a great weapon vs weather teams. I love that Jirachi set, and I'm really intrigued to see what Smogon can do with the 5th gen Doom Desire. Zapdos is just a solid sweeper, and I've been meaning to make a team based around it ever since Thundurus was kicked.

 

[Ithilanor]

1. Work Up Hydreigon
2. Bulk Up Heracross
3. Choice Specs + Doom Desire Jirachi
4. Choice Band Aggron
5. Agility Metagross

 

[Nubagator]

Quick question:
With a lot of people putting in their votes we can get a sense of what has a chance of being selected, and since the voting is open for a while, are we allowed to go back and change our votes or at least change the order we put them in?

 

[Pocket]

Nubagator, the whole point of adopting the IR Voting method is to prevent people from voting CCAT mons that are simply popular and encourage people to vote for what they want to see on CCAT instead. No one can predict which monster will come out as the CCAT mon just by looking at these posts.

Choose what YOU want to see become a CCAT mon - the votes that other people made should not affect your decision. It's this sort of tactical voting that we are trying to avoid by adopting this new voting method.

 

[lolnub]

Kingdra (Rain Dance) - Ningildo
Wobbuffet (Speedy) - BTzz
Zapdos (Life Orb) - Tomahawk9
Infernape (Choice Scarf) - ThunderBlunder
Mienshao (Swords Dance & Baton Pass) - ginganinja

 

[Joeyboy]

Wobbuffet (Speedy) - BTzz
Salamence (Mixed) - ginganinja
Cloyster (Shell Smash) - Seth Vilo
Staraptor (Sub Roost) - typon77
Porygon2 (Offensive Download) - SkullCandy

I think he'd make the best 'mon. So useful but never used. Brings so much support our way.

 

[Smith]

Aerodactyl (Life Orb and Taunt) - Nubagator
Staraptor (Sub Roost) - typon77
Aggron (Choice Band) - Tomahawk9
Yanmega (Choice Specs & Tinted Lens) - skidilidy
Metagross (Gravity) - ginganinja

Really cool noms guys, my own nom didn't even make my own top 5!

 

[Tomahawk]

Zapdos (Life Orb)
Machamp (Substitute)
Aerodactyl (Life Orb and Taunt)
Staraptor (Choice Scarf)
Aggron (Choice Band)

 

[Ninja]

Machamp (Substitute)
Metagross (Agility)
Omastar (Shell Smash)
Salamence (Mixed)
Zapdos (Life Orb)

 

[BowlArt64]

1. Metagross (Gravity)
2. Abomasnow (Physical Leech Seed)
3. Zapdos (Life Orb)
4. Zoroark (Illusion)
5. Heracross (Bulk Up)

Reasons: Gravity Metagross takes the top vote because I'd love to see a working Gravity team. There are so many possibilities for it. Abomasnow's my second vote because hail, like Gravity, is overlooked by a ton of people. Popularizing hail would be pretty funny. Zapdos is third because it's awesome, practical, and not OU for the first time, and this could help it regain the prominence it deserves. Zoroark opens a lot of creative venues as far as teammates go. Heraboss is creative and awesome. In any case, I took a look at the list and chose whatever I thought would open up great possibilities for teambuilding.

 

[DetroitLolcat]

1. Mew (Nasty Plot)
2. Azelf (Sacrifice Lead)
3. Swampert (Physically Defensive)
4. Metagross (Agility)
5. Machamp (Substitute)