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OU Playstyles - Week #04 [Sand Stall] - READ OP FIRST!

Discussion in 'BW OU' started by LilOuOn, Mar 1, 2013.

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  1. J O G A

    J O G A

    Joined:
    Jul 30, 2012
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    70
    I taste it, I removed U-turn for Toxic and is a good variable against bulky waters, and it helps a lot against Weather Inducers ( it weaken much better the opponent team if there are SR and Spikes ) that variable is absoluty great !

    Show Hide

    [​IMG]
    Mandibuzz (F) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Overcoat
    EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SDef
    Careful Nature (+SDef, -SAtk)
    - Taunt
    - Roost
    - Foul Play
    - Toxic / U-turn
  2. Lavos Spawn

    Lavos Spawn
    is a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Past WCoP Winner

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    forretress is cool on sand stall, since every good sand stall team needs a physically defensive steel, which gives you the two options of forretress and skarmory (ferro isn't very good on sand stall). skarm can roost and phaze, which forry can't, but forry can spin, and that's arguably more important than both of skarm's advantages combined. since basically every effective sand stall except meru's needs a spinner too, if you go with skarm over forry, your only real option for a spinner is starmie, and starmie's easy pursuit bait for tyranitar and scizor, which makes it unreliable and less likely to do its assigned job. forry not only takes care of that problem, but frees up a team slot for something else that's critical to your team's success, like jellicent or latias. overall i'd say forry + extra team member outclasses skarm + starmie in the realm of sand stall. here's a sample set. (btw run 0 spd ivs)

    [​IMG]
    forretress @ leftovers
    trait: sturdy
    evs: 252 hp / 180 def / 76 sdef
    relaxed nature (+def, -spd)
    - spikes
    - rapid spin
    - volt switch
    - gyro ball

    i might post some more stuff since sand stall is a cool playstyle.
  3. HackerKing

    HackerKing

    Joined:
    Dec 3, 2012
    Messages:
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    I'm probably a hapless beginner, but I'm a bit confused about Sand Stall.
    I've been playing with a stall team
    PS (open)
    Hippowdon @ Leftovers
    Trait: Sand Stream
    EVs: 244 Def / 252 HP / 12 SDef
    Impish Nature
    - Earthquake
    - Slack Off
    - Whirlwind
    - Stealth Rock

    Tentacruel @ Black Sludge
    Trait: Liquid Ooze
    EVs: 252 HP / 236 Def / 20 Spd
    Bold Nature
    - Toxic Spikes
    - Rapid Spin
    - Scald
    - Protect

    Ferrothorn @ Leftovers
    Trait: Iron Barbs
    EVs: 252 HP / 88 Def / 168 SDef
    Relaxed Nature
    IVs: 0 Spd
    - Leech Seed
    - Spikes
    - Protect
    - Gyro Ball

    Chansey (F) @ Eviolite
    Trait: Natural Cure
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SDef
    Bold Nature
    - Heal Bell
    - Seismic Toss
    - Toxic
    - Wish

    Celebi @ Leftovers
    Trait: Natural Cure
    EVs: 252 HP / 236 SDef / 20 Spd
    Calm Nature
    - Recover
    - U-turn
    - Psychic
    - Perish Song

    Dusclops @ Eviolite
    Trait: Pressure
    EVs: 252 HP / 80 Def / 176 SDef
    Calm Nature
    - Pain Split
    - Will-O-Wisp
    - Night Shade
    - Ice Beam

    and I naturally included Sand Stream as a way of beating down enemy pokemon faster. My team uses Spikes and SR (and T-spikes but rarely do I get the chance to set them up) to deal damage, while sand slowly wears the other team down.

    However, a lot of teams posted don't have spikes and SR included on their team. How do these teams deal damage then? Do they just wait for the opponent to die due to sand storms?
  4. Cinco Diablo

    Cinco Diablo

    Joined:
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    Well, most Sandstall teams start off by laying hazards, mainly in the form of Stealth Rock and Spikes, also Toxic Spikes, if there is usage of Tentacruel in the team. Once the hazards have been laid, the method of phazing is employed, mainly in the form of Roar and Whirlwind, the best users of these being Skarmory and Hippowdon. Finally, after the opposing team has been worn down enough, a late game cleaner is used, mainly in the form of Stoutland, Choice Scarf / RP Landorus and the rare Swords Dance Sandslash. If for some reason a Late-Game cleaner is not able to fit into the team, the team is simply worn down by Phazing, and occasional attacking.​
  5. HackerKing

    HackerKing

    Joined:
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    Hmmm....
    A late game cleaner could be just what my team needs.
    Could anyone evaluate/suggest a couple?
    I can only think of Sandslash and Stoutland.
  6. Liked

    Liked

    Joined:
    Dec 25, 2012
    Messages:
    7
    [​IMG]
    Tyranitar @ Leftovers
    Trait: Sassy
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 SDef / 4 Def
    Sassy Nature
    - Thunder Wave/Stealth Rock
    - Roar
    - Crunch/Pursuit
    - Fire Blast

    This set is great for pretty much any sand team, although it will probably shine the most on balanced-stall teams. Since this is a sand stall thread, I'm assuming every team has hazards setters. Tyranitar sp. def in sand is ridiculously high. It can with ease switch in on things like latias/latios/celebi. Crunch is prefered over pursuit, because of the damage and pokemons suchs as latias will rarely switch out because they expect the pursuit. Thunder Wave is great for crippling switch outs, and works great with Roar, if your team doesnt have a stealth rock setter, Tyranitar can use it. Fire Blast is for ferrothorns, forretress, skarm, etc. and thunder waved scizors which, from experience, tends to switch in on Tyranitar. Roar is what makes this set shine though. Awesome for phasing and easing a late game sweep with something like Stoutland. Edit: Roar is also really good for phasing sp atking threats behind substitute
  7. Dark Fallen Angel

    Dark Fallen Angel FIDDLESTICKS IS ALSO GOOD ON MID!

    Joined:
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    799
    I would use U-Turn instead of Baton Pass. You don't want to Baton Pass a Perish Song to any of your Pokémon. Never. Although U-Turn does not let Celebi escape from Pursuit, which is a shame. That said, there are other moves that can be uset instead of either U-Turn or Perish Song. Hidden Power Ice is one of them, and is the best, as with Hidden Power Ice, Celebi can quickly dispose of Sheer Force Landorus, instead of having to kill it with the time with Giga Drain. Hidden Power Fire deals with Forretress and Scizor, although it only 2HKOes the former, and Scizor can U-Turn you on the face, so you have to predict a Pursuit or hit it on the switch.
  8. LilOuOn

    LilOuOn

    Joined:
    May 25, 2012
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    649
    Once I made a sand stall and found that there was a free slot for one more pokemon. I was thinking, what can I put there? Suddenly, Alakazam's image came to my mind.

    With magic guard and a Focus Sash you can use it as a late game cleaner. He can fire off easily at least 2 attacks, and, if you are lucky, sweep with him once the opponent's team is weakened by hazards, status, sandstorm. Here the set:

    [​IMG]
    Alakazam @ Focus Sash / Life Orb
    Trait: Magic Guard
    EVs: 252 SAtk / 4 Sdef / 252 Spe
    Timid nature
    - Psychic / Psyshock
    - Focus Blast
    - Shadow Ball
    - Hidden Power [Fire] / Hidden Power [Ice]
  9. LilOuOn

    LilOuOn

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    Tomorrow I'll be changing the topic, if you have something to say, say it now :]
  10. yee

    yee
    is a Battle Server Moderator Alumnusis a Past WCoP Winner

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    1,110
    If anyone hadn't figured it out, me and BKC have almost identical favorites. We do have polar opposite views on some things (Bulky Starmie is a frail piece of shit to me despite him loving it) but a team that gels well with one of us will generally be comfortable for the other. As you'd expect I also have a preference for sand stall.

    If you want a good background to understand what I'm saying, this article on how to mix and match your resources is a good start. This is basically the intuition I use to teambuild exported to text after I've recieved inspiration for a team. It doesn't necessarily have to be stall, just any team that intends to take hits before it achieves its goal.

    There is intuition not included in that article that is still very important to me, building ev spreads. It's not there because I'd literally have to make graphs for every defensive pokemon, but I think it's a key concept to understand when you are getting diminishing returns out of EVing a certain stat. With Blissey, you never want to use a huge amount of HP EVs because once you get past 100 or so there's almost never a defense for not putting them in special defense instead, where you actually get a solid return. With Forry / Tangrowth, I would almost never go above 136 defense EVs because the 120 EVs in spD are the difference when it comes to Ice Beams / Hydro Pumps respectively. I actually recently got to take an extra move vs Kyurem-B because the defensive balance helped, and I've never lost a turn vs Terrakion / Chomp etc. because of it. Look at the 3 defensive stats of the pokemon you are EVing, and if one is low compared to the other try to find an insignificant stat to steal just a few EVs from, they will go a long way. Even on a mon that is generally only supposed to wall one side, I encourage you to do this and discover it's benefits.

    I would like to point out that calling these teams "Sand stall" can be misleading. "Sand stall" operates as just weatherless stall that doesn't want an unfair disadvantage against Rain / Sun or in past gens stall that wanted either Ttar or Hippowdon. I hate little more than when someone says "weatherless stall/offense is so underrated" because it operates no differently than "sand stall/offense", all that's doing is just avoiding running Sand because you want more of a "challenge". It's like saying your "no nature boost" team is innovative just because it leaves an essential competitive edge on the side for a gain as relatively significant as strengthening your Blissey's Double-Edge.

    While remembering to refine every detail you can, play as much as possible while trying to involve the tips from my article and discovering your own. Most people need to pile experience with sand stall to get comfortable with it, even more so than normal pokemon.

    Regenerator mons are the shit in BW. Getting comfortable with a Tang / Bro / Amoon really gives you flexibitity against offense and choiced mons, spreading status while scouting their moves. It really helps against residual damage from other stall too while you try to wear them down with support moves.

    Scarfers are also super useful, glass cannon offense is the norm, meaning you can often break randomly put together ladder teams with one coverage move and / or just keep yourself in the game more easily against one that has proper synergy.

    As a final note that didn't fit well elsewhere, run 0 speed on your Forry. This goes back even before pivoting out with Volt Switch into your glass cannon, in any gen you need it to be slower against other Forry. This helps you as you spin after the other one sets up and lets you win a one on one PP war. If you are faster, it sets up after you spin that turn and can then block / stall you out of PP if it wants to.
  11. Kaos

    Kaos

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    I'm curious to know what Landorus-T set you use. Most of the Lando-T's I've seen have come on offensive teams, and indeed the only somewhat stallish seeming set is titled the "Offensive Pivot" in the Smogon Analysis, though I can see it being used effectively on a stall team, forcing switches and U-turning around to rack up hazard damage. Is there a better wall set that you came up with yourself?
  12. BKC

    BKC
    is a Tutoris an official Team Rateris a Smogon IRC AOPis a Forum Moderatoris a Smogon Media Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis Smogon Frontier's Castle Valetis a Past WCoP Winneris the Smogon Tour Season 16 Champion
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    max hp & defense, impish, sr/eq/se/uturn. if the lack of recovery outside of lefties doesn't appeal to you, throw sr somewhere else and try protect.
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