OU Suspect Testing Round 4 Voter Identification and Nominations

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I nominate Kyurem for the Cutest Pokémon Ever contest.

And for OU suspect testing I nominate the return of BrightPowder and Lax Incense. It sets the precedent for a whole lot of other stupid bans just because they "violate expectations" or just because the voters have something against them personally. Every Pokémon that is even OU viable in the first place has a better item to use than BrightPowder. And Lax Incense is a joke. The only thing that Lax Incense is good for is breeding Wynaut.

I don't have experience in the metagame (I hate Pokémon Online because it's not fun) but even I can see why kids love Cinnamon Toast Crunch. And that the BrightPowder and Lax Incense ban had no justification whatsoever.
 
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No Bans

I believe the metagame is really stable right now and if any one weather such as drizzle or sand stream is banned then the other will begin to prove problematic and this will create a lot of unnecessary bans. While I do believe Garchomp brings hax into the game with Sand stream being very common and is already a threatening pokemon, he has some hard counters such as skarmory and bronzong. Drizzle, drought, and hail also nullify the evasion boost.
 
I would like to nominate Permanent Weather.

While I don't believe myself that weather sweepers are broken, I think this would make a more enjoyable metagame. As we have all seen the effects of each weather mean you are forced to run it in order to make a completely viable team. Flare Blitz in sun, Surf in rain, residual damage and stupidly powerful sweepers in sand (Landorus nearly OHKOing Hippo with SD), and Hail causing residual damage+the Blizzard boost. The top of the ladder has become clumped with similar Sandstorm teams and based on nominations for Excadrill and Garchomp it seems others are rather sick of it too. Banning one individual weather would lead to a complex process, in fact even rain can't be completely straightened out it seems with the Swift Swim issue. Banning all weather would make the game more based on unique strategy rather than using specific types of pokemon to keep the weathers in check (your own weather and a wall for opposing weathers that are the same).

Certain pokemon are boosted hugely just by having the weather on their side, far too much I believe. Speed becoming doubled, STAB's recieving a 1.5x multiplier, even evasion boosts etc. All of the games higher up are focused on using this to their advantage, and I believe it would be much more entertaining to watch battles that focus more on their own strategy than planning around 3 others and relying on overpowering everything else.
 
I would like to nominate Manaphy to come back to OU, "ONLY" under the conditions that Drizzle gets banned. Although a +3 surf is Very deadly, Ferrothorn can still switch in and take it with rather ease. (I dont have time to place the calcs here)

I would like to see the ban of Sand Rush ( with Sand Stream), mainly because of excadrill, priority doesnt kill him. I know this will mean other pokemon will be even more crippled but Excadrill straight from the begin was rather centralizing.

I know I could of just added it to the other paragraph but, Auto weather is what started weather abuse or as most of the community calls it "weather wars". Tyranitar in the sand practically gets blissey's special defence without any investment. Politoed unloads insanely powerful hydro pumps in the rain. ( Here's an idea of what I mean, A modest choice specs hydro pump does more damage than a timid choice specs draco meteor from a latios 0_0).

I am probably the only person in the entire thread to nominate this but, I would like to see the return of Darkrai into OU, yes Darkrai. I feel that if Thunderus( who I believe will not be banned yet again) stays in OU than Darkrai will have some stiff competition, with similar stats, Darkrai is base 135 special attack and thunderus is base 125. Although darkrai is naturally faster than thunderus, thunderus' ability sets it apart. It can just priority thunder wave it and cripple that speed. Then a setup and thunderbolt will take down Darkrai. Please do not flame, I stated my reasoning.

My final nomination will be to keep Garchomp, under the condition that auto weather gets banned. I understand it is a very bulky sweeper, access to swords dance and a trollish speed stat coupled with a monster attack stat make it a common threat, but this generation garchomp IMO is no more than a very high top tier threat, I was all for him getting banned last generation but this generation hits harder, faster and less predictable than previous generations.
 
I didn't come anywhere near making reqs this time (in no small part because I stopped playing rated matches while I screwed around testing random crap), but I'll still chime in with some nominations, since it appears that even non-voters can do so:

Ban Garchomp: While I think the metagame is mostly fine, this thing makes me uncomfortable. It is incredibly dangerous in its own right, but the fact that the metagame has adopted a set that specifically trolls for lucky misses (when any miss against Garchomp can lead to a loss) is just going too far.

Ban Swift Swim entirely: Free speed boosts are possibly the second scariest thing in the game, right after free evasion boosts. Swift Swim is inherently stronger than even Speed Boost, though, due to the fact that it does not require the two turns SB needs in order to outspeed the metagame. Any Swift Swimmer with average speed will outrun everything but incredibly fast Choice Scarfers, priority users, and other Swift Swimmers.

Now, if Swift Swimmers were all offensively weak, this wouldn't be a problem. But since the vast majority of them have remarkably powerful attacks courtesy of their Double STAB, you are looking at an ability that cranks out Pokemon that are on the wrong side of broken far too often. This is contrary to Sand Rush and Chlorophyll, who lack that Double STAB.

If this incredible boost in power only lasted a limited time, then it wouldn't be nearly so bad. But in a metagame where you can set up Rain simply by switching in Politoed, or in a metagame where your Damp Rock Rain Dance won't be interrupted, it's too much (see Generation 4's UU for an example where Damp Rock was a suspect).

There are three obvious ways to deal with the problem (aside from the current complex ban that nobody is really happy with):

- The first is banning Drizzle in OU (and probably eventually ban Damp Rock in one or more of the lower tiers). This kills Swift Swim almost completely, but it also removes every Rain-based strategy from the metagame and probably would lead to either Drought being played much more or being chased out of the metagame entirely by Sand.

I think one of the worst things we could do to the game is fundamentally change a metagame that shows signs of being close to balanced and stable. While this metagame is heavily influenced by weather, it does appear to be at least close to a balance at the moment. Removing Drizzle would turn the metagame on its head, probably not for the better.

- The second is hunting down and banning all the Pokemon who are too strong because of Swift Swim. I think this is a bad idea since it's impossible to tell exactly how long that will take. While we can be fairly certain that Magikarp and Luvdisc aren't broken, we won't know for sure if, say, CB Relicanth breaks the metagame until each and every more broken Swift Swim abuser in the game is banned.

If it turned out that Kingdra, Ludicolo, and Kabutops were the only things broken because of Swift Swim, then it wouldn't take very long. But after a few rounds of Swift Swim being broken, Drizzle will become the proverbial kicked dog once people get sick of it.

- The third is banning Swift Swim outright. This more or less maintains the status quo, which is probably a good thing. This would also remove the one complex ban we have, which gets rid of the precedent for them (which has come back to bite us) while having a very minor impact on the metagame.

The biggest argument against simply banning Swift Swim entirely is that Swift Swim clearly doesn't break Magikarp or Luvdisc. For me, this argument is similar to the one that Salamence shouldn't have been banned last generation since it wasn't broken without Outrage or Draco Meteor. Since finding the exact combination of Swift Swimmers that won't break the metagame could easily leave the metagame in a broken state for several rounds, banning the ability outright will let the metagame go on how it has.
 

reachzero

the pastor of disaster
is a Senior Staff Member Alumnusis a Top CAP Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Simulator Moderator Alumnus
The non-Pokemon Suspects this round will be Sand Stream, Drizzle, and Drought.

The Pokemon Suspects this round will be Deoxys-e, Latios, Garchomp, Thundurus and Excadrill.

Please be aware that if Sand Stream is banned, Excadrill will be taken off the ballot. In addition, if Drizzle is banned, Manaphy will be added to the ballot.

While I recognize that there was significant support for a ban of Shell Smash + Baton Pass ("SmashPass"), I am adamantly opposed to the institution of another complex ban. We considered adding Gorebyss, Huntail and Smeargle to the ballot, but ultimately were uncomfortable with putting Pokemon on the ballot that were not specifically named in the nomination thread.
 
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