Past Gen RNG Research

More on weather effects

Okay since no one has replied to my messages about my research on weather effects, I will post more.

First off: I have hatched my first shiny using weather effects as a way of advancing the RNG
Second, Stark Mountain Ash has an IRNG Frame advancement of 50-60 FPS. My research still only shows an inclination to 50. Which by the way, is faster than double taps.
Rain and Snow are two very different weather effects however. First off, there are 3 types of snow: Snowpoint snow (Falls from top of screen, fps unknown, due to pattern similarity to stark ash, probably 50), Acuity snow (Blown in from left of screen, fps unknown similar to the dirt clods in a sandstorm, putting it at about 60 FPS) and blizzard (Basically a white sandstorm)
Rain is interesting however, as it seems to have a fluctuating rate from about 100 FPS to 120 FPS. It seems to me that the Frame rate is based on the number of squares covered by trees in the area (Research for this was conducted outside of Pastoria.)
Now, as for what this means:
If rain and such in HGSS still run on the IRNG (Snow near Red, rain near Azela town), then the process of hatching shiny eggs in HGSS with proper nature and ability would be similar to emerald (Amount of time in the weather to a very specific time.)
 

Kaphotics

Remodeling Kitchens
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Has anyone done any further research on the ARNG (the RNG used to determine the PID of WonderCard Pokémon)? As I'm sure you all know, RNGing for a WonderCard Pokémon with a specific nature (assuming the nature is not set, of course), is a very time-consuming and aggravating process. It took me WEEKS to get my 3 Arceus, and now I'm going after Jirachi.

All I have are the cartridges, so I doubt there's any way I could help with research on this, but if there's any way I can, I'd be more than happy to.

We know that the same seed can yield different natures each time, and I've heard that the ARNG advances rapidly with time like the Emerald RNG does; perhaps someone could hit a certain seed, create a save state, and see if they can get the same PID a few different times by button mashing, see if "lingering" before collecting the Pokémon does in fact affect the PID, etc. (preferably in the Cerulean Mart where there are no NPCs).

Anyone?

EDIT: Some potentially useful information I found from a Google search that led me to this website:
0x201BA10 -- Another RNG.
0x2068AAC -- Shiny Check for mystery gift pokemon
The seed for this RNG at 0x201BA10 is obtained from the half-words at 0x4000100 and 0x21D37B4.
Those two values are not related at all to the value of the seed for usual PRNG.
I've also noticed this when I do dynamic (unset PID/) nature wondercards in the Cerulean mart.

The nature is determined once you stop talking to the man, so I save state right before that and stop at different times. Depending on how fast I mash, I get 90% the same nature, 9% another, and rarely another nature. I didn't test the PID's but I'd think they'd be the same.

If it's not the nature I want I just wait a second and state+mash repeat etc, different natures.

It's a hardware related timer that advances it, half of the algorithm is seed, the other is RWTimer0. Uncontrollable!!
 

Zari

What impossible odds?
is a Contributor Alumnus
Bug Catching Contest RNGing - The How to.

Anyways, long story short I managed to crack at least part of the BCC's RNG with Frozen_Spirits's testing help :)

Onto the details:

Sweet Scenting - Tried, tested and complete

Encounter slots are different than normal in the BCC, with 10 entries, not 12 or 5 or 6 or whatever. You go about calculating them the same way, but with a twist - you're using a modified surfing RNG version.

In this version, everything stays method K the whole time; there is no going back to method 1 to determine encounter slots, etc. The reason why I label it as modified "Surfing" RNG, is because you sweet scent at your target frame - 3, just like you would while upon water in the rest of the game, rather than F-2 for other grass SSing.

The encounter slot is determined by your current frame + 1, while the IVs/nature/etc is determined by your current frame + 3, all PID numbers and calculations taken and done from the Method K values, not the "actual" values. The actual slots are broken up as follows:

[number obtained via current frame + 1 latter 4 hex digits / 656; the usual process]

Slot 1: 0 - 19
Slot 2: 20 - 39
Slot 3: 40 - 49
Slot 4: 50 - 59
Slot 5: 60 - 69
Slot 6: 70 - 79
Slot 7: 80 - 84
Slot 8: 85 - 89
Slot 9: 90 - 94
Slot 10: 95 - 99

These values correspond to the pokemon (from left to right) on this Serebii page.

All of this has been confirmed on both VBA and physical carts, multiple (as in 5+) times.

As for the actual catching process, since you only have 1 mon with you during the contest, it has to be able to both sweet scent, sleep, and false swipe (latter two are optional, but make EVERYTHING easier). In 4th Gen there are only 2 mons that legally learn the combination of false swipe/spore/sweet scent (those being paras/parasect and smeargle); for those who don't want to bother with sketching, I have already bread a paras for bcc purposes and will be hosting a givaway sometime soon :)

As for using a synchronizer, that is the next thing to figure out; sadly this limits our available spreads somewhat, but still, something is better than nothing, right?

happy abusing!

(note you can VM me if you have more questions; how fast I'll respond will vary however)
 
Bug Catching Contest RNGing - The How to.

Anyways, long story short I managed to crack at least part of the BCC's RNG with Frozen_Spirits's testing help :)

Onto the details:

Sweet Scenting - Tried, tested and complete

Encounter slots are different than normal in the BCC, with 10 entries, not 12 or 5 or 6 or whatever. You go about calculating them the same way, but with a twist - you're using a modified surfing RNG version.

In this version, everything stays method K the whole time; there is no going back to method 1 to determine encounter slots, etc. The reason why I label it as modified "Surfing" RNG, is because you sweet scent at your target frame - 3, just like you would while upon water in the rest of the game, rather than F-2 for other grass SSing.

The encounter slot is determined by your current frame + 1, while the IVs/nature/etc is determined by your current frame + 3, all PID numbers and calculations taken and done from the Method K values, not the "actual" values. The actual slots are broken up as follows:

[number obtained via current frame + 1 latter 4 hex digits / 656; the usual process]

Slot 1: 0 - 19
Slot 2: 20 - 39
Slot 3: 40 - 49
Slot 4: 50 - 59
Slot 5: 60 - 69
Slot 6: 70 - 79
Slot 7: 80 - 84
Slot 8: 85 - 89
Slot 9: 90 - 94
Slot 10: 95 - 99

These values correspond to the pokemon (from left to right) on this Serebii page.

All of this has been confirmed on both VBA and physical carts, multiple (as in 5+) times.

As for the actual catching process, since you only have 1 mon with you during the contest, it has to be able to both sweet scent, sleep, and false swipe (latter two are optional, but make EVERYTHING easier). In 4th Gen there are only 2 mons that legally learn the combination of false swipe/spore/sweet scent (those being paras/parasect and smeargle); for those who don't want to bother with sketching, I have already bread a paras for bcc purposes and will be hosting a givaway sometime soon :)

As for using a synchronizer, that is the next thing to figure out; sadly this limits our available spreads somewhat, but still, something is better than nothing, right?

happy abusing!

(note you can VM me if you have more questions; how fast I'll respond will vary however)
Mew can do it; Hypnosis is optional, so something like T-Wave would suffice, since it's not that hard to keep him in there, unlike most legends. Doesn't Sport Ball have the same rate as a Great Ball?

But how does this limit the spreads?
 
Mew can do it; Hypnosis is optional, so something like T-Wave would suffice, since it's not that hard to keep him in there, unlike most legends. Doesn't Sport Ball have the same rate as a Great Ball?

But how does this limit the spreads?
Mew cant sweet scent. It limits it because there are less spreads which means less possible encounter slots. What I want to know is if most people will count it as hacking if we hacked Sweet Scent on a synch or hacked synch on a sweet scenter.
 
Mew cant sweet scent. It limits it because there are less spreads which means less possible encounter slots. What I want to know is if most people will count it as hacking if we hacked Sweet Scent on a synch or hacked synch on a sweet scenter.
riiight, I keep forgetting that Sweet Scent is not a TM anymore...

Pretty sure that most people will consider it as a hack, since it's technically not possible outside of the mimic glitch. And unless that stance changes on this, I'm pretty sure...
 

ΩDonut

don't glaze me bro
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You don't even need a Pokemon with Sweet Scent. The Honey item does the exact same thing as Sweet Scent when you use it out in the field, in addition to spreading it on trees in DPP.
 
You don't even need a Pokemon with Sweet Scent. The Honey item does the exact same thing as Sweet Scent when you use it out in the field, in addition to spreading it on trees in DPP.
OMG, you win. I gotta do this now, I'm pretty sure that if Sweet Scent works that way in BCC, it should apply to honey as well.
 

Nexus

Forever the Recusant
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ok so if I read this right, each Pokemon available in the BCC is specific to a single encounter slot? if so, then instead of going back to serebii to compare I sorted them here:

Encounter Slot: Pokemon

Slot 1: Caterpie
Slot 2: Weedle
Slot 3: Metapod
Slot 4: Kakuna
Slot 5: Paras
Slot 6: Venonat
Slot 7: Butterfree
Slot 8: Beedrill
Slot 9: Scyther
Slot 10: Pinsir


Encounter Slot: Pokemon (Tuesday)

Slot 1: Caterpie
Slot 2: Weedle
Slot 3: Metapod
Slot 4: Kakuna
Slot 5: Paras
Slot 6: Venonat
Slot 7: Butterfree
Slot 8: Beedrill
Slot 9: Scyther
Slot 10: Pinsir

Encounter Slot: Pokemon (Thursday)

Slot 1: Wurmple
Slot 2: Nincada
Slot 3: Silcoon
Slot 4: Volbeat
Slot 5: Kricketot
Slot 6: Kircketune
Slot 7: Dustox
Slot 8: Combee
Slot 9: Scyther
Slot 10: Pinsir

Encounter Slot: Pokemon (Saturday)

Slot 1: Wurmple
Slot 2: Nincada
Slot 3: Cascoon
Slot 4: Illumise
Slot 5: Kricketot
Slot 6: Kircketune
Slot 7: Beautifly
Slot 8: Combee
Slot 9: Scyther
Slot 10: Pinsir
 
ok so if I read this right, each Pokemon available in the BCC is specific to a single encounter slot? if so, then instead of going back to serebii to compare I sorted them here:

Encounter Slot: Pokemon

Slot 1: Caterpie
Slot 2: Weedle
Slot 3: Metapod
Slot 4: Kakuna
Slot 5: Paras
Slot 6: Venonat
Slot 7: Butterfree
Slot 8: Beedrill
Slot 9: Scyther
Slot 10: Pinsir


Encounter Slot: Pokemon (Tuesday)

Slot 1: Caterpie
Slot 2: Weedle
Slot 3: Metapod
Slot 4: Kakuna
Slot 5: Paras
Slot 6: Venonat
Slot 7: Butterfree
Slot 8: Beedrill
Slot 9: Scyther
Slot 10: Pinsir

Encounter Slot: Pokemon (Thursday)

Slot 1: Wurmple
Slot 2: Nincada
Slot 3: Silcoon
Slot 4: Volbeat
Slot 5: Kricketot
Slot 6: Kircketune
Slot 7: Dustox
Slot 8: Combee
Slot 9: Scyther
Slot 10: Pinsir

Encounter Slot: Pokemon (Saturday)

Slot 1: Wurmple
Slot 2: Nincada
Slot 3: Cascoon
Slot 4: Illumise
Slot 5: Kricketot
Slot 6: Kircketune
Slot 7: Beautifly
Slot 8: Combee
Slot 9: Scyther
Slot 10: Pinsir
I don't have encounter slot 7 on my shiny spread but how come I caught a shiny Dustox and shiny Beautifly? My shiny spread encounter slots are 3 and 6.
 

Nexus

Forever the Recusant
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I don't have encounter slot 7 on my shiny spread but how come I caught a shiny Dustox and shiny Beautifly? My shiny spread encounter slots are 3 and 6.
when i made that list I based it off the post below this one, Serebii has the Pokemon going from left to right as Dustox and Beautifly listed as the seventh Pokemon. It seems the exact slots may not be consistent from game to game or due to other factors that need to be worked out. The lists I made were just to translate the results Zari posted onto here without having users go to serebii to try and match up the slots posted by Zari with the Pokemon.

Slot 1: 0 - 19
Slot 2: 20 - 39
Slot 3: 40 - 49
Slot 4: 50 - 59
Slot 5: 60 - 69
Slot 6: 70 - 79
Slot 7: 80 - 84
Slot 8: 85 - 89
Slot 9: 90 - 94
Slot 10: 95 - 99

These values correspond to the pokemon (from left to right) on this Serebii page.
 

Expert Evan

every battle has a smell!
is a Forum Moderator Alumnus
elm calls still work during the bug catching contest so I go based on its corresponding frames that way. I was only trying the available non-sync frames.
 

Expert Evan

every battle has a smell!
is a Forum Moderator Alumnus
In further gathering some data regarding the bug catching contest, here is what I've gathered from one important spread:

Seed= 390F02B8
PID= A777C735
date: 9/25/2010 (Saturday)
delay: 686
target spread: adamant, female, ability 1, 31/31/31/17/31/31

using non-synch smeargle with sweet scent, spore & false swipe
Frame 900 #5. kricketot, level 30

using synch mew that had move modified sweet scent
Frame 862 #3. cascoon, level 36
Frame 868 #3. cascoon, level 29
Frame 872 #7. beautifly, level (whirlwinded)
Frame 874 #5. kricketot, level 27
Frame 876 #3. cascoon, level 28
Frame 878 #6. kricketune, level 29
Frame 882 #7. beautifly, level 31
Frame 886 #4. illumise, level 29
Frame 898 #4. illumise, level 27
Frame 899 #1. wurmple, level 26

In short while I can legitimately RNG capture a NU competitive kricketot, even if the above synch mew captures were legitimately possible, there appears to be no way to RNG capture such a desireable pinsir nor scyther in the bug catching contest with this spread. I've also noticed without sweet scent that it often targets a central frame as I'm not sure as to why, so I cannot consider sweet scenting as a modified move to be legit unless it's randomly possible.

So far as the other jolly quint-flawless spreads that were accomplishable without a sync, only the following 2 were known:

jolly female scyther (swarm): 31/31/31/24/31/31
jolly female kricketot: 31/31/31/29/31/31

I have not further tested using a jolly sync with a modified move as of yet. Any correlation as to how these species are created shall be gratefully appreciated.

Edit:
Seed= 54090B53
PID= 67A6D16E
date: 9/4/2010 (Saturday)
delay: 2889
target spread: jolly, female, ability 0, 31/31/31/29/31/31

using non-synch smeargle with sweet scent, spore & false swipe
Frame 161 #5. kricketot, level 30

using synch mew that had move modified sweet scent
Frame 153 #3. cascoon (did not save)
Frame 155 #6, kricketune (did not save)
Frame 159 #2, nincada (saved)

Until I can determine whether or not nincada is possibly available with a sync without sweet scent I will not even offer this nincada.

Edit again:
Seed= 1D42D783
PID= 67A6D16E
date: 9/11/2010 (Saturday)
delay: 979
target spread: hasty, male, ability 1, 21/31/12/3/30/31

using non-synch smeargle with sweet scent, spore & false swipe
Frame 158 #2, nincada (saved)
 

ΩDonut

don't glaze me bro
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Current information on the B&W RNG:

The state of the RNG is stored as a 64-bit number at memory location 022160A4.

It advances only as necessary; you can see this when it advances quickly in an area with many NPCs, slowly in an area with one or two moving NPCs, and not at all with no moving NPCs.

The LCRNG formula, identical to the one used since 3rd gen, is in the game code (along with the IRNG used for creating egg PIDs), but when applied to the numbers stored in this memory location did not correspond to the results.

The RNG does NOT advance every 128 steps.
 

ΩDonut

don't glaze me bro
is a Pokemon Researcheris a Programmer Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus
Here's what we DON'T know:

- How the initial seed is generated

- What formula is being applied to update the RNG at memory address 022160A4.
- How Pokemon are generated (it's definitely not Method 1, 2, or any of the other methods found so far)

We really can't do anything else until we find this out.

Is there any way to check our initial seed already?

@OmegaDonut, what do you mean by the state of the RNG? Is this value the same on Kazo's program?
No and no.
 

Ditto

/me huggles
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Just posting to confirm what OmegaDonut has said. Through some testing I have noticed the same 2 things.

1. There is a delay/frame system similar to Gen 4 in which the time before you start the game (press continue) affect the seed you get, but once in game it is based on RNG frame advancements, such as moving NPCs, instead of timing like Emerald. (Tested by obtaining starter Pokemon).

2. It don't seem to use Method 1 as the primary Method. Both Method J and K used Method 1 as a base and only changed the frames on which spreads were found, but the seeds would still be the same and arrived through the same delays. However, in this new Method, spreads do not match the seeds for Method 1 and come up with either different timings or "no reasonable seed found" when you search for your seed based off a Pokemon that you just caught. (Tested by capturing Zekrom searching for delays 100 - 5000)

EDIT: Will be doing some more testing

EDIT #2: Found something pretty interesting. When testing on Kyuremu (the Ice/Dragon) I came across several spreads that are illegal by Gen 4's seeds.

Relaxed
25/22/26/11/8/8
Illegal in Gen 4. Natures in Gen 4 with that spread are Bashful, Brave, Careful, Quiet, Sassy
Naughty
6/27/17/8/0/13
Legal in Gen 4. No reasonable initial seed founds (searched 100-9999)
Modest
4/1/28/14/19/23
Illegal in Gen 4. Natures in Gen 4 with that spread are Lax, Naive, Naughty, Rash

Here are the stats for the Modest on if you want to check me.
Base Stats: 125/130/90/130/90/95
LVL 75: 275/180/161/231/154/164
LVL 76: 279/182/163/234/156/166
LVL 77: 282/184/165/236/158/169
LVL 78: 286/187/167/239/160/171
Lonely
18/3/23/9/19/17
Legal in Gen 4. No reasonable initial seed found (Searched 100-9999)

LVL 75: 286/222/141/206/154/160
LVL 76: 289/224/143/209/156/162
Sassy
19/27/12/20/30/17
Illegal in Gen 4. Natures in Gen 4 with that spread are Adamant andSerious

LVL 75: 286/220/149/215/178/144
LVL 76: 290/223/150/217/180/145
Mild
0/22/16/22/14/15
Illegal in Gen 4. Natures in Gen 4 with that spread are Docile, Hasty, Modest, Sassy, and Timid

LVL 75: 272/216/136/237/150/158
LVL 76: 276/219/137/240/152/160
LVL 77: 279/222/139/244/154/162
LVL 78: 283/224/141/246/156/164
LVL 79: 286/227/143/249/158/166
LVL 80: 290/230/144/253/160/169
Mild
1/13/22/3/26/31
Illegal in Gen 4. Natures in Gen 4 with that spread are Jolly, Quiet, Sassy, and Serious

LVL 75: 273/209/140/222/159/170
LVL 76: 276/212/142/224/161/172
LVL 77: 280/215/144/227/163/175
Also tested on Borutorosu, a Roaming Pokemon (which was Method 1 in Gen IV)
Adamant
11/25/10/18/17/17
Illegal in Gen 4. Natures in Gen 4 with that spread are

LVL 40: 117/117/65/100/75/100
LVL 41: 120/119/66/102/77/102
LVL 42: 122/123/68/105/79/105
LVL 43: 125/123/69/108/81/107