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Lifestyle physical health/fitness thread
- Thread starter Ninahaza
- Start date
I have a question for those who've done or even have knowledge on layne nortons phat program. Come January i'll start cutting and i was considering finally trying out nortons phat program. The only problem is that i've always been under the impression that it was a program meant more for bulking/putting on muscle in general rather than cutting/maintaining.
thoughts on this dilemma? I have no problem waiting for the next time i bulk to try this program, but i'm pretty stoked and want to start it as soon as possible as well.
thoughts on this dilemma? I have no problem waiting for the next time i bulk to try this program, but i'm pretty stoked and want to start it as soon as possible as well.
nina, doing a google search on layne norton phat gives you a link to simplyshredded.com or something like that, and it has the full routine with sample schedules. after reading it at first, it definitely seems to me like something you would do for building muscle (read: nosferalto could chime in here). however, (and don't take my word since I'm definitely a total beginner at exercise - was planning to start myself) removing some of the power days and replacing them with aerobic exercises and shifting the schedules seems like a decent way to cut. read it though, some interesting stuff.
one of the questions I actually had was whether it would be feasible for a guy with little muscle to pursue a moderate cut/muscle gain at the same time. I can only do the gym M/Thu/F (and some weekend sit-ups/push-ups) and I've been doing a balanced diet so I burn more kalories than I take in with carbs slightly > proteins. I've dropped 8 pounds in the month I've been doing this, but I definitely need some help with whether I'm "cutting" right or not. i'm 6 ft and 165 lb now if that puts things into perspective.
also, nosferalto looks amazing after phat props to you man
one of the questions I actually had was whether it would be feasible for a guy with little muscle to pursue a moderate cut/muscle gain at the same time. I can only do the gym M/Thu/F (and some weekend sit-ups/push-ups) and I've been doing a balanced diet so I burn more kalories than I take in with carbs slightly > proteins. I've dropped 8 pounds in the month I've been doing this, but I definitely need some help with whether I'm "cutting" right or not. i'm 6 ft and 165 lb now if that puts things into perspective.
also, nosferalto looks amazing after phat props to you man
@Ninhaza: I don't know what program you were on before but if you made some good muscle gains on that said program, I would stick with it. The only thing you should change when transitioning to a cut is calories in vs. calories out.
if you really want to try out PHAT though, you CAN run it on a cut. However, It's a difficult routine to adapt to, especially on a cut. San Pellegrino got it right when he suggested tweaking the phat program a bit but I would cut down on some of the volume on hypertrophy days as opposed to power days because your ability to recover will be affected on a deficit.
@San_Pellegrino: it's possible to gain muscle and lose fat at the same time but only if you used lift on a consistent basis, stopped and started lifting again. look up "muscle memory". btw, thanks for the encouragement man.
also, ty az. i'm still far away from achieving my goals but everything is coming along nicely thus far and I was pleased with that.
if you really want to try out PHAT though, you CAN run it on a cut. However, It's a difficult routine to adapt to, especially on a cut. San Pellegrino got it right when he suggested tweaking the phat program a bit but I would cut down on some of the volume on hypertrophy days as opposed to power days because your ability to recover will be affected on a deficit.
@San_Pellegrino: it's possible to gain muscle and lose fat at the same time but only if you used lift on a consistent basis, stopped and started lifting again. look up "muscle memory". btw, thanks for the encouragement man.
also, ty az. i'm still far away from achieving my goals but everything is coming along nicely thus far and I was pleased with that.
Chair dips? Overhead two-arm/one-arm/front-to-back extensions?
Are any of you health conscious peeps aware of the effects of the fluoride that poisons our water?
Stratos
Banned deucer.
Yeah oh god my teeth they're all healthy THIS ISNT NATURAL
logan have you ever been tested for schizophrenia
Edit: or extreme paranoia
fool.
logan has a point, but it's not that big of a deal unless you drink tap water by gallon-fulls everyday.
also, is doing sets of incline benching equivalent to sets of normal benches over a long period of time to the sense that while they work different parts of a muscle, they can be interchangeably mixed during workouts under the umbrella of "pec exercises"?
i apologize for how poorly that was worded in advance...
also, is doing sets of incline benching equivalent to sets of normal benches over a long period of time to the sense that while they work different parts of a muscle, they can be interchangeably mixed during workouts under the umbrella of "pec exercises"?
i apologize for how poorly that was worded in advance...
Yeah, it kinda weirds me out. If I had a bunch of money I'd invest in one of those filters that takes the fluroide out. I'm planning on heading out to western Canada and a lot of cities banned it there, so I only have to drink the poison another year or so :s
Are you guys aware that fluoride poisons our toothpaste as well? We need to get rid of it lest we all get DEADLY fluorosis, which... causes very slight white markings on the teeth. And fluoride poisons water even in places where it isn't specifically added! We should just never drink water at all, too many minerals that have no health effects at low levels, it's too dangerous.
Seriously though, water fluoridation is not bad for you at the regular levels, just like toothpaste isn't bad for you unless you brush your teeth about 8 times a day. Off the top of my head though, it just has no particular effect in countries where dental health is easily obtainable for everyone, especially low income people.
Edit: Also I'm pretty sure you're more likely to get fluoride poisoning from toothpaste than you are water. Down with the dental establishment!
Seriously though, water fluoridation is not bad for you at the regular levels, just like toothpaste isn't bad for you unless you brush your teeth about 8 times a day. Off the top of my head though, it just has no particular effect in countries where dental health is easily obtainable for everyone, especially low income people.
Edit: Also I'm pretty sure you're more likely to get fluoride poisoning from toothpaste than you are water. Down with the dental establishment!
Here's a comment from Layne Norton himself on the subject. To be honest I would not attempt to do a program as rigorous as PHAT while on a cut, but if you really want to give it a try, by all means go for it.
Dips are probably my favorite, followed by close-grip bench press, followed by tricep pushdowns. Some people I know enjoy skullcrushers/overhead tricep extensions, but they hurt my elbows so I myself stay away from them.
Refer to my response to Ninahiza's post; generally it is difficult to gain muscle on a cut, but if you are a beginner it is possible. By no means of course do I suggest not lifting if you know you'll be doing too much cardio; the more you lift the more strength and muscle you will retain while losing body fat.
I don't like it :/ but there's not much I can do outside of a reverse osmosis water filter or something of the sort. Probably not a huge deal. I've read that mice exposed to large amounts of fluoride become more passive, which leads me to believe it also has a negative affect on testosterone (this is all speculative; take everything I'm saying with a grain of salt). Like I said probably not a big deal.
Both incline and flat bench press works your pecs, however the incline targets your "upper chest" (I hate using that term) to a greater extent. I would also have to assume it works your front delts more as well. There is nothing wrong with doing these interchangeably, however if you do make sure you still stay on a consistent schedule in order to make progress (promise yourself that you'll add 5 more pounds or 1 extra rep next time you do the flat/incline bench). I personally rarely bother with incline, only because I do overhead presses 1x a week and flat bench press 2x a week, and I feel like because I have a vertical pressing movement and a horizontal pressing movement there's no need for me to work the middle ground. However incline is still definitely a legitimate exercise.
If your like any other person in the world you get most of your water from your water supply. Your being mass medicated from birth. Prior to the last few years they actually added extra fluoride to nursery water for babies which is why they now boldly advertise on the label that it is fluoride free.
If you drink the recommended amount of fluoride it still adds up and should be completely avoided. (Obviously a huge tax on life lol) Toothpaste isn't meant to be swallowed as it advises (i use fluoride free toothpaste btw).
All of our pineal glands are completely calcified from water fluoridation. Regardless of what you think the uses of your pineal gland are there is a part of your BRAIN that absorbs the most electronegative substance, a biproduct waste toxin. In addition to your pineal gland being calcified, it accumulates in your bones weakening you as well.
I have a fluoride water filter and frequently drink SmartWater as it is one of very few bottled waters (bottled drinks in general) that doesn't have it in it.
It's been shown to lower IQ, and hasn't shown to improve teeth any more than many countries without water fluoridation.
Fun Fact: Water Fluoridation began in Nazi Germany.
If you drink the recommended amount of fluoride it still adds up and should be completely avoided. (Obviously a huge tax on life lol) Toothpaste isn't meant to be swallowed as it advises (i use fluoride free toothpaste btw).
All of our pineal glands are completely calcified from water fluoridation. Regardless of what you think the uses of your pineal gland are there is a part of your BRAIN that absorbs the most electronegative substance, a biproduct waste toxin. In addition to your pineal gland being calcified, it accumulates in your bones weakening you as well.
I have a fluoride water filter and frequently drink SmartWater as it is one of very few bottled waters (bottled drinks in general) that doesn't have it in it.
It's been shown to lower IQ, and hasn't shown to improve teeth any more than many countries without water fluoridation.
Fun Fact: Water Fluoridation began in Nazi Germany.
I'm actually kind of depressed, because prior to stumbling into this thread I had been thinking, "Wow, Logan has been shitting up a lot of threads today, I'm surprised he hasn't started ranting about fluoridation of water since paranoid assholes love complaining about shit like that"... and lo and behold, here you are. Do you believe that water fluoridation is a communist plot to destroy America, just like vaccines and mental health? Or does the anti-illuminati lobby not believe in the danger of communism any more?
Seriously, the "most electronegative substance"? Are you aware that fluoride is not the same as FLUORINE? Or are you one of those people who believe that table salt is deadly because it contains chlorine? Fuck oxygen and oxygen products!
It hasn't been shown to do anything in (relatively) large scales besides cause dental fluorosis... which as I said, just causes white streaks on the teeth. I would LOVE to see any sort of large randomised experiment in which fluoride has been shown to cause the destruction of... anything... when used in the recommended amounts. Preferably double blind. As it is, I suspect you've seen maybe a few small studies which make X claim and they've been used to death in whatever anti-government newsletters you subscribe to, never mind whether the findings have been able to be reproduced or not.
The most you'd be able to find in large scales is that water fluoridation isn't beneficial in countries where the dental health system is capable of reaching people en-masse, particularly in places where dentists come out to schools to educate and treat kids. There may be a case for artificial fluoridation being inappropriate as it's a "one size fits all" policy... but it hasn't been shown to cause major issues unless you're overdosing on it. Let's also not forget that fluoride is naturally occurring in water... sometimes at rates far above the maximum recommended dose.
Anyway, I'm guessing you'd also believe that bisexual men simultaneously exist and don't exist, since small, shitty studies have made both claims before. Isn't science convenient to fuck around with when you're a layman?
Seriously, the "most electronegative substance"? Are you aware that fluoride is not the same as FLUORINE? Or are you one of those people who believe that table salt is deadly because it contains chlorine? Fuck oxygen and oxygen products!
It hasn't been shown to do anything in (relatively) large scales besides cause dental fluorosis... which as I said, just causes white streaks on the teeth. I would LOVE to see any sort of large randomised experiment in which fluoride has been shown to cause the destruction of... anything... when used in the recommended amounts. Preferably double blind. As it is, I suspect you've seen maybe a few small studies which make X claim and they've been used to death in whatever anti-government newsletters you subscribe to, never mind whether the findings have been able to be reproduced or not.
The most you'd be able to find in large scales is that water fluoridation isn't beneficial in countries where the dental health system is capable of reaching people en-masse, particularly in places where dentists come out to schools to educate and treat kids. There may be a case for artificial fluoridation being inappropriate as it's a "one size fits all" policy... but it hasn't been shown to cause major issues unless you're overdosing on it. Let's also not forget that fluoride is naturally occurring in water... sometimes at rates far above the maximum recommended dose.
Anyway, I'm guessing you'd also believe that bisexual men simultaneously exist and don't exist, since small, shitty studies have made both claims before. Isn't science convenient to fuck around with when you're a layman?
Natural water contains small trace amounts of calcium fluoride not sodium fluoride which is the biproduct waste. I jumped the gun on the fluorine thing. I'm glad you took an hour to respond and correct me on that one thing.
Aside from that I don't think you did any real research on the subject and are instead locked into a closed minded hatred towards me for my anti status quo ideals.
Water fluoridation does accumulate in the pineal gland. If you can even handle fathoming a spirit research your third eye. Begins forming on the 49th day, the same day as the sex can be determined as well as when the tibetan book of the dead says the soul is incarnated. Understand meditation, your consciousness, and the universe. This isn't something I can push on you, but please consider it.
You probably can't imagine such things. Go watch your television, eat your GMO food, drinking fluoridated water, and not thinking for yourself. WATER FLUORIDATION IS NOT ETHICAL. You are a fool.
http://naturalsociety.com/harvard-study-published-federal-govt-journal-confirms-fluoride-lowers-iq/
Aside from that I don't think you did any real research on the subject and are instead locked into a closed minded hatred towards me for my anti status quo ideals.
Water fluoridation does accumulate in the pineal gland. If you can even handle fathoming a spirit research your third eye. Begins forming on the 49th day, the same day as the sex can be determined as well as when the tibetan book of the dead says the soul is incarnated. Understand meditation, your consciousness, and the universe. This isn't something I can push on you, but please consider it.
You probably can't imagine such things. Go watch your television, eat your GMO food, drinking fluoridated water, and not thinking for yourself. WATER FLUORIDATION IS NOT ETHICAL. You are a fool.
http://naturalsociety.com/harvard-study-published-federal-govt-journal-confirms-fluoride-lowers-iq/
Fishy
tits McGee (๑˃̵ᴗ˂̵)
hahaha shade, tri kickbacks are literally hell, but they hurt so good!
so i'm one of those people that says they'll exercise and then doesn't. for months. so, i'm making it my teeny tiny goal that the next time i'm urged to post in this thread, it will only be with some results, be it after only a day, or 30 of them!
also acknowledging the hilarity of the word "swole"
but there's certainly nothing hilarious about nosferalto's stomach
so i'm one of those people that says they'll exercise and then doesn't. for months. so, i'm making it my teeny tiny goal that the next time i'm urged to post in this thread, it will only be with some results, be it after only a day, or 30 of them!
also acknowledging the hilarity of the word "swole"
but there's certainly nothing hilarious about nosferalto's stomach
so I guess I'll do an update. I've been on somewhat of a cut lately, and my mile time has decreased to right around 8:30 (about 13:30 for the mile and a half course that I run usually), which for me is nothing short of a miracle considering how piss poor I've been at running in the past. Strength levels are about the same as they have been since summer, which are as high as they've ever been essentially (thanks, PHAT!). My weight is right around 190, sometimes below, which is the first time I've ever been below 190 since bulking to over 200 lbs. On top of all this, I picked up another form of cardio in the past month in breakdancing. serious, lol. I developed an interest in it and decided to pick it up and it is way more intensive than jogging or even HIIT in some cases, but way more fun to do and to get better at. Somewhat hell on my hands initially but worked through that and it's great. Not much to report other than that, gonna stay the course for now and maybe start up PHAT again sometime in the future (seriously great program, everyone serious about strength and size should do it)
as far as tri kickbacks, they're a shit exercise. Close-grip bench press, skullcrushers and rope pushdowns are far superior triceps exercises. Weighted dips with a close grip are also fantastic for tris. I'd avoid kickbacks completely since the other exercises I mentioned are better for strength and size, and kickbacks can tweak your shoulders pretty easily.
I'm not really worried about it, but I still don't do kickbacks because of the other tri lifts existing. Burn doesn't really mean anything as far as gaining size and strength go. Kickbacks are limited in terms of adding weight as well