Lifestyle physical health/fitness thread

obviously steroids are dangerous, considering they are designed to manipulate your body chemistry. obviously they are much more dangerous when it is so heavily scorned in society, even more so than drugs, alcohol and cigarettes, that any discussion about knowledge and safety regarding steroids is not even an option. I don't think anyone has ever claimed that steroids are completely safe, but they can be used safely with proper knowledge. As seen in this topic, people will instantly demonize steroids and people who even think about supporting them, like this quote:

I can't believe people are even debating about this...
There is a very valuable discussion/debate to be had here, but our society is years, possibly decades away from ever being able to have it. Obviously I'm no expert, and no one in this topic is either. I'd be willing to bet a lot that many of the issues you outlined in your study came from improper use of steroids, considering the incredible disparity between people who have a desire to use them versus the amount of available resources to learn the proper way to use them safely, and the scorn placed on them by the vast majority of society versus people who actually know what they're talking about.
 

WaterBomb

Two kids no brane
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I wasn't disputing that steroids could be used safely, but not for the purpose of long term muscle gain. Steroids are used frequently by physicians to treat some medical conditions like bronchitis and hypothyroidism. Using steroids for short term muscle growth is what most people use them for outside of that, but once you stop using the steroids your body regresses at a faster than normal rate. This means you have to work much harder to maintain the muscle growth you achieve through steroids, so you're really doing more harm than good. I'm not demonizing it automatically, I'm simply saying that even controlled steroid use in moderation is detrimental to you in the long run if it's for muscle gain.
 
I wasn't disputing that steroids could be used safely, but not for the purpose of long term muscle gain. Steroids are used frequently by physicians to treat some medical conditions like bronchitis and hypothyroidism. Using steroids for short term muscle growth is what most people use them for outside of that, but once you stop using the steroids your body regresses at a faster than normal rate. This means you have to work much harder to maintain the muscle growth you achieve through steroids, so you're really doing more harm than good. I'm not demonizing it automatically, I'm simply saying that even controlled steroid use in moderation is detrimental to you in the long run if it's for muscle gain.
Can you clarify what you mean by stop using steroids? Do you mean 1) stop using steroids altogether or 2) just finish a cycle?

1) You don't lose muscle mass on the long run unless it's over your natural limit

2) if you know how to properly cycle, you should be able to keep 50% of your gains. You never get to keep all of them no matter how hard you work. This isn't the natty game anymore.
 

Ninahaza

You'll always be a part of me
is a Forum Moderator Alumnus
alright, with this air of "People do not know what they are talking about and need to do some research" around, i realized that my last post on the subject could have been much better. Now i know that i cannot claim to be an expert as many also cannot claim to be, but here are a few things i should have perhaps mentioned in my last post instead of basically coming off as "hurr durr steroids bad hurr"

-i have seen bigger stronger faster before (along with a few others). i still managed to watch half of it when it was linked by delta though, haha. great documentary
-i have spoken to users and abusers of steroids
-i have given quite a bit of my time to researching more on steroids, both in the medical field and the fitness scene

now dont get me wrong, i have never wanted to use steroids myself, but one of the things i came to love during my weight loss phase and muscle gain phase was spending time doing research. during that first year and a half you'd be surprised as to how much i tried to learn and absorb when it came to anything and everything about the fitness world, and steroids was a fascinating story that no one should ignore, whether you are personally interested in using them or not.

Now although all the looking i did into the story of steriods did not change my views of never wanting to use them myself, the research did change one thing and you'll find it in my last post
My views on steroids aren't as harsh as they should be, but I would personally never use them. Also I can't ignore what lee said about how steroids affect ones accomplishments. all credit really just goes down the drain as soon as I hear steroids were in the picture. Perhaps thats the biggest reason why I would never use them myself
Yes, before i took an interest in learning more about steroids and educating myself, my views on steroids were very harsh. they were down right demonic (ok maybe thats a little harsh, but you get the picture). today i view steroids as a sad story of the fitness world. I say that because after all the research i did, i accepted that steroids can be used safely, but they never will be, at least not for a VERY long time, and part of that is because not many are willing to accept steroids to the point where enough research and proper research can be done on them. Which sadly translates to "the majority of users will continue to use them improperly"
Obviously I'm no expert, and no one in this topic is either. I'd be willing to bet a lot that many of the issues you outlined in your study came from improper use of steroids.
exactly, and until society steps back and gives steroids enough of a chance for proper and more research to be done on them, and in turn steroids becoming popular enough that safety and information based on those studies are readily available to users and those interested in using, steroids will always be nothing but a sad story of the fitness world (and i will continue to view it as so, just as i said above).

"Sad" stands for multiple things by the way, not just the tragedy it implies when i use it in that sentence. I mean, have you seen an older man that has been completely ravaged by steroids use in his younger days? its a fucking sad sight. maybe if he had all the resources i mentioned above and better knowledge readily available to him, his views may have changed along with his improper use of steroids, and he would not be in the state he was when i saw him.
 
I wasn't disputing that steroids could be used safely, but not for the purpose of long term muscle gain. Steroids are used frequently by physicians to treat some medical conditions like bronchitis and hypothyroidism. Using steroids for short term muscle growth is what most people use them for outside of that, but once you stop using the steroids your body regresses at a faster than normal rate. This means you have to work much harder to maintain the muscle growth you achieve through steroids, so you're really doing more harm than good. I'm not demonizing it automatically, I'm simply saying that even controlled steroid use in moderation is detrimental to you in the long run if it's for muscle gain.
it is absolutely untrue that you cannot keep muscle gained from steroids over the long term. It does take precise PCT supplement use to maximize the amount of muscle you retain after a cycle, as well as proper diet and training, but it's certainly not impossible. Most often people take steroids while eating and training like shit, which can lead to great results because PEDs will make up for that, and then continue their shitty habits afterwards and end up losing all of their gains from steroids. Another reason why it's important to have a great amount of knowledge about steroids before even considering to use them.
 
Went to a meet yesterday, finally got to 1000 as my total.
I got the following:
400 on squat
255 on bench
345 on deadlift (hey i improved!!)

next saturday is our next meet. i finally figured out how to stop hitching on deadlift so hopefully I'll get a lot higher this next meet.
 

Delta 2777

Machampion
is a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis the Smogon Tour Season 10 Champion
Went to a meet yesterday, finally got to 1000 as my total.
I got the following:
400 on squat
255 on bench
345 on deadlift (hey i improved!!)

next saturday is our next meet. i finally figured out how to stop hitching on deadlift so hopefully I'll get a lot higher this next meet.
Congrats on the milestone dude. I'm competing again on May 18, roughly a year after my previous meet and I'm just looking to improve as well (trying for a 1200 total, but the fact that my right knee keeps getting hurt really isn't helping my squat at all). Needless to say your deadlift is kind of poor in comparison to your squat and bench; I would expect your deadlift to be near 500 with a 400 squat. Any chance we can get a form check and/or your training program? I just am very surprised at that squat:deadlift ratio.
 
Congrats on the milestone dude. I'm competing again on May 18, roughly a year after my previous meet and I'm just looking to improve as well (trying for a 1200 total, but the fact that my right knee keeps getting hurt really isn't helping my squat at all). Needless to say your deadlift is kind of poor in comparison to your squat and bench; I would expect your deadlift to be near 500 with a 400 squat. Any chance we can get a form check and/or your training program? I just am very surprised at that squat:deadlift ratio.
Its my horrid form. The judges get me for hitching constantly. I can get the weight up no problem, but I hitch all the damn time. Also what adds into it is the fact that I'm in a high school athletic program, and we tend to shy away from deadlift. But I try to get in as much "practice" (i guess you can call it) on my own time as i can.
I roll my shoulders which causes the bar to go down, which they call hitching on me. All I need to do is keep my arms locked and just push (not roll) my shoulders back and i should be fine, but its hard to break bad habits lol

But you're right it is quite poor. If I could get it up past 400 I could qualify for regionals. (I am 22 in the region, but there's like 10 of us that are really close, and I am benching more than 5 or 6 of the guys in the top 10, and squatting just as much as them. Its deadlift that is putting me so low). I have two meets left so its not out of reach.
 
Have you considered dropping the weight and repping the shit out of it? Like if your deadlift is 345, go for 315 and track your progress. Also, deadlift more frequently. If you deadlift twice a week, make that 3.

One of the best pieces of advice I got to improve my deadlift was to just stand up, seriously. Don't think that i need to deadlift all this weight. Just hold it and tell yourself that you want to stand up. Chest up, head up also.

Also, HIP DRIVE.... If you keep hitching, use your hips for momentum. Hip drive is extremely important midway through the lift, at least for me.

We really need a video or something to see what's wrong but I think what I just talked about helped me to get to a 425 deadlift. Though, i bench more than i squat so i probably shouldn't be taken seriously. then again, i'm not competing. hopefully this helps you out.
 

San_Pellegrino

the eternal dreamer
is a Team Rater Alumnus
The most body weight pull-ups I can do right now is 3, and I'm not really sure of a way to improve that (my school gym doesn't have a pull-down machine). Any tips? Also, is there a modified deadlift for people who are just starting out and can't lift the bar with the thick weights on it (the ones that let the bar sit high enough so it can be picked up over the feet)?

thanks smogon
 
You can do rows to help with the pull ups. I doubt your school gym has a Tbar so I'd suggest using the bar with a wide grip. It hits the lats. I'm not sure about what you can do for deadlifts, you do extensions on that funny bench/seat thing to strengthen your lowerback. I don't know any modified deadlifts though ... maybe just start with the bar on a railing instead of the ground?
 
The most body weight pull-ups I can do right now is 3, and I'm not really sure of a way to improve that (my school gym doesn't have a pull-down machine). Any tips? Also, is there a modified deadlift for people who are just starting out and can't lift the bar with the thick weights on it (the ones that let the bar sit high enough so it can be picked up over the feet)?

thanks smogon
Can't help you with the modified deadlift stuff but this should be useful for you:

[youtube]Ni9TfOLNCyk[/youtube]
 
pull from the rack or stack plates to start the bar at the proper height for deadlifts

pulling from the rack is not worse than pulling from the floor, especially since you aren't at the point where you can pull from the right height (unless your school has the big 10 pound plates that are official size, in which case use those).
the transition from rack to floor pull is where you'll probably have the most trouble later, and that initial pull is going to wear you out when you get to the floor pull. it eliminates up to the uh... shit i don't know terminology anymore. basically about the point where you're going to want to get into lock out position of the deadlift, when the bar is around the knee and moving to where you're going to lock out with it. that's what the rack pull gets. so you're eliminating the part before that, but still working almost all the same muscles, sort of not using your adductor (I think that's what it's called?) / quads as much but squats should cover those if you're squatting.

stacking plates is pretty obvious. stack plates until the bar is where it would be if you had a 45 plate on the side. shouldn't be too difficult but i don't know if they'd let you do it. might have to ask.

---

pull ups + pulls ups = more pull ups. the more you do the more you improve your endurance.

other options for pull ups: ladders and pyramids. ladders are easy. just work up to 3 pull ups, then start over. the way you'd do it is like pavel ladders. do one pull up. rest. do two pull ups. rest. do three pull ups. rest. that's one set. you can do as many sets as you like, when i was working from 2 pull ups to 5 i did 5 sets. if you can do more by all means go for it. it's a great way to increase the amount of pull ups your doing without killing yourself (ie doing 6 pull ups in a row is obviously tiring but doing ladders isn't as tiring). probably the best way to do it would be to set goal reps (ie 20 reps, so 9 sets. next time maybe push for 25 reps so 11 sets) kind of thing, maybe not starting that high because i don't know what your endurance levels are like. maybe you start at aiming for 9 pull ups that workout day. next time you feel like you could push yourself to 12 using ladders. it's a good way to work in volume without killing yourself, improving your endurance which in turn improves your strength.

pyramids are pretty obvious but i like them less than ladders. 1 pyramid set would be 1,2,3,2,1. i think they're a little more tiring than ladders (especially when you can do like 10 pull ups, jesus 7,8,9,10,9,8,7 that's a lot of volume) but still get volume in and work your endurance heavily.

that might have been in the video, it was 9 minutes long so i didn't watch it.

also i think this was pretty rambly / incoherent sort of, sorry :/

quick edit: slipped my mind you might be able to set the rack bars to normal deadlift height, which wouldn't be a rack pull just a normal pull . see if you can do that too, that'd be the best option. lol i was basing it all off my own equipment, didn't think about how other equipment could be like! gg styval
 

HBK

Subtlety is my middle name
I've played soccer for around five years but I've always been a little fat( I think it's hereditary;my dad and my brother are very fat too ).Anyway,it was never really too much of a problem because I mostly played around the neighbourhood,in small grounds where I never really felt the pinch so I didn't bother with monitoring my diet or working out.
A few months back though,I thought I'd try out for the college team and even though I got picked(I'm very good)I found it very hard to complete 90 mins on the pitch partly because I wasn't accustomed to big fields and partly because I can't touch my toes >_> As I said I'm a very good player but all my qualities are useless if I can't run.So I withdrew from the team and decided to start working out to lose weight.I tried running and jogging but I couldn't do much because my ankles would start aching and so I would have to stop even before I got tired.I still continued with that but I wasn't losing any weight.I guess I'll have to hit the gym If I want to lower my weight to 65 kgs atleast( I currently weigh 95 :( ).But I've never been to the gym before and I have no idea what do first and how much to do.I would really appreciate it if you guys could suggest something.Thanks!
 
Why would you withdraw from the team ?_? Just lowering your caloric intake and playing football should be enough for you to lose weight and get accustomed to the intensity required.

Honestly, it's not rocket science. Just eat less and play football (or an other cardiovascular activity to help you build that endurance that you want). Maybe do a program like Starting Strength for some functional strength.
 

HBK

Subtlety is my middle name
It's too much for me.I can't play the university games unless I lose that weight and it's going to take time and hard work.Besides my coach told me that he would not play me over other guys who could run faster and last longer just because I was more skilled.It was more of a mutual decision.You say it's not rocket science but I went to the gym two weeks back and lifted 5kg weights (I thought the heavier it is the more weight I'll lose),did lots of sit ups(didn't even count,just kept doing it nonstop thinking I'd lose more weight the more I did) and tried all the shit that I saw in the gym and when I went to bed that night my whole body ached so bad I couldn't fall asleep.It was so bad that it lasted for a week and I decided I wouldn't do anything more without consulting someone experienced.Clearly,it's not that simple.Does anyone have a good workout routine or something to lose stomach weight and get abs?
 

San_Pellegrino

the eternal dreamer
is a Team Rater Alumnus
you can't target the loss of excess fat. it's a total myth propagated by for profit agencies. the other guys are absolutely right, just lower caloric intake and increase aerobic activity. strength training occasionally (alongside aerobic stuff) helps with losing weight, especially if you're doing aerobics in intervals, eg - 30 sec of biking at 85% max heart rate and resting 30 sec, and repeating the work/rest cycle 10-20 times.


also, significant weight loss is not something that comes with a week or two of work, stay with it for at least a month or two, then reevaluate yourself. your soccer season won't end in a while, so keep working hard, not mindlessly.

------- and read up on strength training online from google searches, lots of good stuff just from wikipedia
 
What's your opinions on elliptical machines in comparison to running outdoors? Looking at using it for days where I can't get outdoors and to give my knees a rest sometimes, not a replacement
 

HBK

Subtlety is my middle name
Okay,I have started daily cardio with decreased calorie intake and I'd like to have a few things cleared up:

Does exercising without eating ANYTHING(like literally nothing) help you lose more weight?
Is it bad to turn the ac/fan on the moment you get home from exercise?
Is it bad to drink water immediately after exercise?
 
Okay,I have started daily cardio with decreased calorie intake and I'd like to have a few things cleared up:

Does exercising without eating ANYTHING(like literally nothing) help you lose more weight? No. exercising whilst fasted doesn't burn more fat. it's all about overall intake during the whole day.
Is it bad to turn the ac/fan on the moment you get home from exercise? No.
Is it bad to drink water immediately after exercise? No. Drink as much water as you want.
 

Lee

@ Thick Club
is a Top Team Rater Alumnusis a Community Leader Alumnus
well yeah, eating literally nothing is going to cause weight loss but it's completely unsustainable and, because of the way the body works, if you starve yourself for a long period the body starts craving the fattiest, most calorie-laden shit it can think of. you'd be doing yourself no favours (although if you're going to go ahead with it anyway, at least take a multivitamin tablet).

the success of your cardio depends on the intensity of it moreso than the duration - i've known people to go to the gym and absolutely torture themselves for 40 minutes leaving a puddle of sweat and occasionally other bodily fluids in their wake and i've seen people come and park their fat arse on the exercise bike for 2 hours. you can probably guess who saw the most weight loss. there's an optimal fat burning zone and if you're not panting for breath then you're probably not in it.
 

DM

Ce soir, on va danser.
is a Site Content Manager Alumnusis a Senior Staff Member Alumnusis a Smogon Discord Contributor Alumnus
What's your opinions on elliptical machines in comparison to running outdoors? Looking at using it for days where I can't get outdoors and to give my knees a rest sometimes, not a replacement
Any exercise is better than nothing, so if that's your only option, you could do a lot worse. I personally used to avoid those things like the plague, but with my current bad hip, they're perfect for low-impact cardio.
 

Ninahaza

You'll always be a part of me
is a Forum Moderator Alumnus
.
the success of your cardio depends on the intensity of it moreso than the duration - i've known people to go to the gym and absolutely torture themselves for 40 minutes leaving a puddle of sweat and occasionally other bodily fluids in their wake and i've seen people come and park their fat arse on the exercise bike for 2 hours. you can probably guess who saw the most weight loss. there's an optimal fat burning zone and if you're not panting for breath then you're probably not in it.
I cant vouch for this more. This is the truth right here. God, i have thrown up from some of my more extreme cardio days, but the results are oh so worth the pain i felt from pushing myself to give my cardio workouts my absolute best. Also please take the time to learn and realize when you've simple pushed yourself TOO FAR. If you achieve it, then bask in your puddle of sweat and puke from your job well done, but also learn to listen to your body and achieve that safely. Always remember to keep yourself hydrated as well.

No. exercising whilst fasted doesn't burn more fat. it's all about overall intake during the whole day.
Sorry, but i am going to have to contest this. in the past it was popularly believed and advocated in fitness magazines all over that exercise, more specifically, cardio focused exercises, tend to burn more fat when in a fasted state. the idea was that with nothing else for your body to turn to, it would start breaking down and using up your fat reserves. at least that was the foundation that whole movement was built upon.

in recent years however, the other side has been speaking up against exercising on an empty stomach. Now really for every maybe 2-3 articles and research i could find done in favor of exercising on an empty stomach, i can find 1-2 of the opposition. Both sides make arguments which should be read by the individual trying to decide which method to use because which you choose should be decided by the results you want at the end of it all.

Do keep in mind that there are downsides to working out on an empty stomach though, the big one obviously being muscle loss because although the body may turn to your fat reserves and break them down for energy, it also turns to muscle and breaks IT down as well in order to fuel you throughout your workout. In my eyes that alone makes it not worth it. Also you only truly benefit from any exercise done on an empty stomach IF you can power yourself through it. By that i mean that working out on an empty stomach usually translates to a less intensified workout. You dont have the benefit of having something in your stomach to fuel you through that rigorous run, therefor you end up having a less intensity cardio workout and you end up burning less calories. In fact it makes no sense to torture yourself through that workout if you are burning less calories at the end of the day.

My personal experience:
on my weight loss journey i tried a lot of things in an effort to mix things up and find better and more effective ways to achieve my goals (That should be the most important thing you take away from all this by the way. The fact that trying out different things in order to find what works better for you, and mixing things up in general). I tried doing my cardio on an empty stomach and doing it in the mornings before eating anything, and let me tell you, that did not last long. Dont get me wrong, it did work for me. can i honestly say that i lost more weight that way? yes, oh God yes. i ate afterwards of course, i wasn't starving myself necessarily. The reason why it didnt last too long for me was the effects of using such a method. My cardio workouts were very intense to begin with, and they lasted an hour at least with no breaks, so when i started doing them without the usual help of having some food in me before the workout, i started to notice i was pooping out way too early and there wasnt as much intensity. my workouts were shit in comparison to when i ate, so i decided to just dig deep and just will my way through my workouts. it was hell because i already had to dig deep on a normal day, but to give as much intensity on an empty stomach required me to dig so deep i still don't know how i managed to do it. it was on a whole new level, and this is where those "effects" i didnt like started coming into the picture and ultimately made me stop exercising on an empty stomach and go back to previous methods.

The Effects: after somehow being able to still put out such intensity in my workouts on an empty stomach, i would feel very dizzy afterwards. It would range from "i just had to sit down it was that bad" to "PASSING OUT, YES". the human body is not meant to perform with such intensity with no real fuel, and when you push it to do what it's not built to do, i guess i should never have been surprised at those extreme effects i experienced. Yes i lost more weight during that small period, yes the scale showed the difference in progress, but i also felt the muscle i was losing when i went in for days i worked with weights. the point is, overall it worked for me at least, but the effects were not worth it for me or my personal goals so i stopped.

What's your opinions on elliptical machines in comparison to running outdoors? Looking at using it for days where I can't get outdoors and to give my knees a rest sometimes, not a replacement
I do this exact same thing. Do not even worry yourself about not running outside 100% of the time and taking a few days to run on an elliptical machine instead. I am also sure your knees appreciate that you are thinking about them. If and when the weather is lovely outside though, then you are better off going for a run outside instead, but even then, dont beat yourself too much over it.


And once last thing, nice job Minwu. #feelsogood
 

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