Platinum Changing the Accuracy of Hypnosis: The Effect on the Metagame

[Reverb]

Back in the good ol' days hypnosis was not nearly as popular. It had a mere 60% accuracy. With the release on Diamond / Pearl, the accuracy was jacked up to 70%. With this change, the prevelance of hypnotizers dramatically increased. My question to you is, when Platinum is fully accessable outside of Japan and more than just a few people have the game, will hypnosis still be as popular or will it die out like an old pokemon (e.g. Golem)?

I personally think it will decrease and I am glad because I HATE sleep lolz...

 

[Aeroblacktyl]

the only two things that really used hypnosis were yanmega and gengar and bronzong. with platinum, it's not that they went down 60%, but it's more like yanmega/gengar seemed more so scizor bait than ever and with scizor everywhere, comes magnezone everywhere, which makes bronzong seem kind of more of a sitting duck against scizor as well etc etc

 

[Lightsabre]

milotic is the only one that was really affected by the switch

 

[starfox]

Hypnosis will definitely die out. Most of the time you can't risk the miss.
~Star Fox

 

[Crafty Veteran]

Platinum was the reason why Milotic dropped to UU.

 

[Kittymew]

Actually that's untrue; the reason Milotic dropped to UU was the overprevalance of physical attackers in the D/P metagame. Milotic was never OU, at least not in any useful or intelligent sense (I forget if it was by usage for a while).

 

[Wilson]

It was OU for either almost all or all of the D/P generation before Platinum iirc

I honestly don't see a terrible difference in Hypnosis, though the usage definitely has died down, but moreso because of Scizor than of its reduced accuracy, as others have pointed out. It's not a bad move. Anything that can cause sleep is a good move.

Just most sleepers these days are threatened by Scizor or Magnezone, both much more popular with the release of Pt.

 

[diamondfan1910]

Aeroblacktyl, that's three things.

Milotic was the Donphan/Electivire of today, just scraping the OU list every month. It dropped to BL every now and again though.

Back on topic, Hypnosis was always shaky but is now too unreliable to use. When you consider that there is a good chance that only one in every two Hpynosises will hit, it's a real turn-off. Yanmega, Gengar and Bronzong have better options in today's metagame, namely HP Ground, Explosion and Earthquake respectively. Gengar usage is dwindling thanks to Scizor though, and since he was the most used Hypnotizer that's already a long way toward the move dying out.

 

[roberto22]

The accuracy drop was the beginning of the end for hypnosis. It still sees a little bit of use but eventually will stop being used, essentially removing the main way to put pokemon to sleep (as not many useful pokes learn spore/sleep powder). Personally I was a little angry with the accuracy drop because sleep really isnt that much of a problem and can be easily be avoided with aromatherapy/heal bell. So in conclusion yes it most likely will die off.

 

[animenagai]

Hypnosis's accuracy drop has much larger connotations than you guys are talking about. Do you guys remember what the standard lead was in DP before platinum? Sleep leads! Roserades, Bronzongs, Gengars etc. Putting something to sleep at the start of the game was so effective, it's basically the equivalent of the suicide SR leads now. Screwing over 1/6 of the opponents team before they could scout your own team and weigh up the usefulness of their own team members was priceless.

Of course, everyone back then had a sleep talker to take status, we don't really feel obliged to dedicate as slot to that anymore. What does this all mean?

A sleep inducer is even more valuable than it was before.

Not everyone's prepared to give up a member of their team early game anymore. The current metagame has changed their team building thought process.

My advice? Break out your roserades, brelooms and smeargles once more and test it out in this metagame. Works wonders.

 

[kaonohiokala]

Aeroblacktyl, that's three things.

Milotic was the Donphan/Electivire of today, just scraping the OU list every month. It dropped to BL every now and again though.

Back on topic, Hypnosis was always shaky but is now too unreliable to use. When you consider that there is a good chance that only one in every two Hpynosises will hit, it's a real turn-off. Yanmega, Gengar and Bronzong have better options in today's metagame, namely HP Ground, Explosion and Earthquake respectively. Gengar usage is dwindling thanks to Scizor though, and since he was the most used Hypnotizer that's already a long way toward the move dying out.

Electivire doesn't scrape the list. It somehow gets enough uses to put it at a secure position every month. Milotic is still an effective bulky water, regardless of the Hypnosis accuracy drop. With the Platinum switch, many of the Hypnosis sets went down in usage, making the metagame have less focus on sleep. Sleep absorbers aren't as common on certain team types now.

 

[Haku16]

for sure it will be rare to find a Hypnosis on a pokemon once Platinum is released. also shouldnt there be a D/P Clause making the battle a Platinum only battle instead of a Daimond and Platinum or smoething i know it sounds weird but lets say if someone is using Daimond hypnosis wont decrease even when playing against Platinum, right?

 

[Chou Toshio]

From what I understand, Diamond/Pearl are "Slave" to Platinum. When battling against a platinum cartridge, all of platinum's rules apply-- Choice Items don't stop u-turn users from changing moves, and hypnosis gets nerfed, etc. etc.

 

[MagicMaster87]

From what I understand, Diamond/Pearl are "Slave" to Platinum. When battling against a platinum cartridge, all of platinum's rules apply-- Choice Items don't stop u-turn users from changing moves, and hypnosis gets nerfed, etc. etc.

According to someone's post in the most recent DPPt Research thread, Hypnosis' accuracy depends on who's the host; if the Plat. player is hosting, then accuracy will be 60% for both games, but if it's a D/P game that's hosting, then the accuracy is 70% for both games. I assume if Hypnosis works this way, then everything else would as well.

*EDIT*
Alright, so it wasn't in the DPPt Research thread, it was in that acid weather thread a while back. Here's the relevant posts:

By the way, if Platinum is playing Diamond and Diamond is hosting the game, Hypnosis will have 70 accuracy if used by the Diamond player, and 60 if used by the Platinum player.

Hypnosis's accuracy can be tested by modifying the ROM to give it two widely different accuracies between the two games. When Diamond hosts the game, Diamond maintains its Hypnosis accuracy. yamipoli tested this.

 

[Chou Toshio]

Wow, ok good to know-- I guess if I use my platinum to play, I better make sure I host the games. This is also probably in part why Diamond/Pearl have been banned from use at official events from now on.

Oddly though, when using platinum, U-Turn between choice users does not lock you into U-Turn regardless of who hosts I think.

 

[Polis4rule]

Milotic is hardly the Electivire of D/P; if you call it that, I don't know what you're on! It still has very good defenses, an ability that promotes being status'd (RestTalk is insane), has a one turn recovery move, and can still do some damage with a respectable SpA stat. The way I see it, Hypnosis was dropped in favor of Toxic.

 

[Froshy]

I agree that Hypnosis was lost because of the percent drop. When Platinum came out, Sleep-inducers like Gengar, Yanmega, Milotic, and Bronzong found other options. I agree with Polis4rule. Sleep-inducers found toxic-stall and paralyze to be an even more valuable status than sleep because toxic and paralyze were reliable statuses while sleep you could never predict when the opponent would wake up, not to mention you may not even land a hit! Toxic and Thunder Wave do have accuracy issues, but once they work the user can take control over the HP drop for Toxic and the Speed for Thunder Wave.

I think Milotic switched ove to Toxic stall, Gengar was way more useful in Special Sweeper, Yanmega was a speed boost/air slash haxor, and Bronzong is your general SR/Explosion. These are all stronger, more effective areas for each of these pokemon to be in and even if Hypnosis didn't get a percent drop from 70% to 60%, I'm confident that these pokemon would have switched over to their new areas anyway.

 

[Thorns]

Actually, Bronzong usage has dropped because of Hypnosis. Hypnosis' nerfing wasn't really great for the metagame in my opinion...now everyone runs Toxic instead of Sleep Talk on Heracross. Actually, because of the less sleep users and sleep absorbers, maybe it's time for Spore Breloom to make a comeback.

 

[Chou Toshio]

From what I've seen, Breloom is a big player in the metagame.

Also imo, sleep is so powerful you should be forced to use a more specialized/weaker poke (breloom, roserade, smeargle etc.) if you want to use it effectively.

Also, I never recall sleep talk heracross being a big part of the metagame, and even if it was-- whoopie, between meh speed and meh defenses, I've never thought of heracross as over-hyped.

 

[wDro]

From what I understand, Diamond/Pearl are "Slave" to Platinum. When battling against a platinum cartridge, all of platinum's rules apply-- Choice Items don't stop u-turn users from changing moves, and hypnosis gets nerfed, etc. etc.

It would be interesting to see what the accuracy is in Platinum US. The 60% can be a programming error in the Japanese version. We can hope, right? :P

 

[lati0s]

It would be interesting to see what the accuracy is in Platinum US. The 60% can be a programming error in the Japanese version. We can hope, right? :P

that seems very unlikely

 

[Pyromanic]

It would be interesting to see what the accuracy is in Platinum US. The 60% can be a programming error in the Japanese version. We can hope, right? :P

I doubt it. They put 60% on the accuracy box.

 

[Scofield]

If hypnosis were still 70% acc I think sub gengar would see a lot more use. Nehind a sub, Gengar really doesn't fear scizor.

And yes, people expect sleep A LOT less now, many teams no longer run a sleep absorber (I for one have stopped). A fast sleep in scarf roserade is the reason for a lot of my success in the last few months.

 

[Erazor]

And yes, people expect sleep A LOT less now, many teams no longer run a sleep absorber

In OU, at least. In UU, sleep is pretty common, with all those Roserades running around, so you have to be prepared.
And yes, nobody uses Hypnosis anymore. Face it, Nintendo hates hypnosis.

 

[Vald]

and so do most pokemon players

At least I'm guessing that is why sleep status has one of the most arcane rules going with it (sleep clause). Maybe Nintendo just wanted people to stop using sleep clause. That may be an interesting test.

jk, I don't like sleep status anyway.