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Platinum/HG/SS Battle Frontier and DP Battle Tower Records

Discussion in 'Smogon's Greatest Hits' started by Peterko, Apr 4, 2009.

  1. DrDimentio

    DrDimentio

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    Your wisdom on such matters is greatly appreciated, Peterko - thanks for taking the time to answer (in which you could've done 100 battles or eaten some cake, maybe). I've learned a lot from your experiences.

    Yeah, it's sad that that good Steel types are so few. I might try Registeel if I can be stuffed restarting Emerald and then doing RNG abuse for the first time (in Emerald). But of course there's Lucario who I might consider using... since Jumpman is mentioning him a lot. I'd be more inclined to use a Swords Dance rather than Calm Mind set though. And he has Bullet Punch. Do you think Lucario can get a long streak?

    ......... no comment.
  2. Jumpman16

    Jumpman16 np: Michael Jackson - "Mon in the Mirror" (DW mix)
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    lucario is really bleh with sd/cc/bp/sub because its bullet punch just doesnt pack the punch you'd like it to but it's necessary unless you want to be walled by gengar. stab cc is absolutely murderous though, and again the fighting move outdamages the steel move or even extremespeed even when you wouldn't expect it to (90 bp on resists like zapdos and moltres vs 80 bp with ES).

    +6 BP doesn't kill moltres and zapdos (it doesn't even with scizor sometimes) and lucario isn't a speed demon so having to fight numerous slowbro (only dies half the time to +6 CC) and zappy and moltres and starmie sucks ass, scizor is stronger with +2 tech BP than luke is with +4 bp but lucario is so cool.............if luke got a reliable strong stab steel move maybe that would work with ES but it doesnt somehow (way to get zen headbutt but not iron head you pseudo psychic type, who are you golduck or something)
  3. Critical_Hax

    Critical_Hax

    Joined:
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    Well, I thought about a week or so ago, I'd try my luck with some assorted Battle Facilities.

    My most succesful streaks were in the Singles Battle Tower (Platinum), Doubles Battle Tower (Platinum) and Battle Factory Opens Level.

    In Factory, I hit a Streak of 33

    I led with 925 Moltres, with 919 Latios and one of the Roserades (either 709 or 845, I don't look at the sets while I'm playing lol)

    I was up against 838 Rampardos. Unluckily, it has a Choice Scarf. Proceded to Head Smash My Moltres into Oblivion. I went to Roserade, luckily, Head Smash Missed but so did Leaf Storm, then I was KOed the following Turn. Latios didn't stand a chance...

    For Single Tower, I used this Team, reaching a streak of 77

    Breloom @ Toxic Orb
    Adamant
    252 Attack/ 252 Speed/ 4 HP (I have an HP IV That gives me 129 HP at level 50 Luckily)

    -Substitute
    -Spore
    -Focus Punch
    -Seed Bomb

    Heatran @ Choice Scarf
    Timid
    252 Special Attack/ 252 Speed/ 4 HP

    -Fire Blast
    -Earth Power
    -Dragon Pulse
    -Lava Plume (Still trying to win another Explosion TM)

    Gyarados @ Leftovers
    Jolly
    252 Attack / 168 Speed / 88 HP

    -Waterfall
    -Earthquake
    -Stone Edge
    -Dragon Dance

    I was up against a Legendary Team, leading with Latias I think. Breloom isn't staying in on Latias so I switched to Gyara. I proceeded to DD two or three times, drawing near Low HP before I was able to 2HKO with Stone Edge

    Next up is Zapdos, and my Stone Edge, of course, misses. So I'm Down. I switch to Heatran, and go for a Fire Blast. It does about 65%. I get greedy and go for another one, which misses, resulting in a 2HKO via Tbolt

    Then, Breloom dies to a Heatwave, as I facepalm and realise I could have got a Flash Fire boost and possibly won.

    My Doubles Team however, is what I'm most impressed with, its an explosion based team. So far, the only problems I've had are with T-Tar and Bulky Damp pokemon, such as Quagsire partnered with a Strong Sweeper. But its record Streak is 132

    Azelf @ Life Orb
    Timid
    252 Special Attack/ 252 Speed/ 4 HP

    -Stealth Rock (kind of a waste but I don't have AR to get a new TM)
    -Psychic
    -Fire Blast
    -Explosion

    Gengar @ Focus Sash
    Timid
    252 Special Attack/ 252 Speed/ 4 HP

    -Shadow Ball
    -Focus Blast
    -Thunderbolt
    -HP Ice (66)

    Metagross @ Occa Berry
    Jolly
    252 Atk/ 112 HP/ 12 Def/ 132 Speed (Agilligross spread altered to match my IVs)

    -Meteor Mash
    -Earthquake
    -Explosion
    -Agility

    Heatran @ Choice Scarf
    Timid

    252 Special Attack/ 252 Speed/ 4 HP

    -Fire Blast
    -Earth Power
    -Dragon Pulse
    -Lava Plume (Same Heatran from Before lol)

    I can't remember the Specifics of How I lost but I remember the Lead was a T-Tar (and my Focus Blast Missed, and FB + Explosion usually Kills T-Tar and is partner) and it came down to Heatran vs. Walrein and I lost.

    Later, I also lost to a Walreign when I subbed Heatran for Swampert, again with a T-Tar, but the third pokemon... Damn Walrein. Anyway, that one was 110
  4. Chinese Dood

    Chinese Dood

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    So, I hope you learned the lesson not to use inaccurate moves in Battle Frontier! I try not to use anything less than 95% in Frontier, but 90% is the minimum, other than Toxic on a defensive pokemon.

    Well, I haven't been playing much, but today I got something that can go on the record list again (yay), again something nobody else has played yet lol.

    Currently I have 84 Streak in Double Battle Castle with 955 CP, and the streak is still continuing. The team is:

    Lead #1: Zapdos @ Yache / Lum / Wise Glasses / Leftovers / Nothing
    Timid - EV'd to outspeed neutral base 112 speed, little bit of Defenses, 252 SpA
    Thunderbolt / Discharge / Heat Wave / Detect

    Lead #2: Flygon @ Choice Scarf
    Adamant - EV'd to outspeed +speed Electrode after scarf, 252 attack, rest in HP
    Earthquake / Outrage / Fire Punch / U-Turn

    Metagross @ Occa Berry / Nothing / Lum Berry
    Adamant - max attack and speed
    Explosion / Bullet Punch / Ice Punch / Earthquake

    Strategy: Basically same idea as the Zapdos + Garchomp that's seen so much in the VGC teams (i.e. Discharge + Earthquake). I don't like using Garchomp. Plus Flygon gets the 100% accurate Fire Punch, and also U-Turn is sometimes useful (like OHKOing level 55 Jynx lol). Too bad I can't pick target with Outrage, but I really need the extra power for it. Sometimes it's Outrage + Discharge that nets me a kill plus one injured. VS most legendary teams, I just try to kill one pokemon quickly, hopefully with Zapdos still alive, and then Metagross just comes in to explode while Zapdos uses Detect.

    So far, from what I've seen, this team has trouble dealing with swampert / gastrodon / whiscash / quagsire ... I check pokemon every round (ever since having a streak of 42), and if I see one of them, I usually either lower level by 5 or I just raise their level by 5 (to get more CP) and get metagross to come in and explode. Legends are also troublesome if Metagross is gone. Ice types give some trouble since Flygon and Zapdos are both weak to ice, but usually I U-Turn with Flygon while Zapdos attacks and they almost always attack Flygon (i.e. Metagross). If Metagross gets frozen though (which it did once) the match might be close if Zapdos's Heatwave misses somewhere vs those ice types.

    Anyway, I'll update when my streak ends... hopefully after 100, but there have been quite a few close calls up to 84, so I dunno if I'll last that long. Also, it sucks when Zapdos faints and then Flygon is locked into Earthquaking Metagross. I've tried using Gyarados in place of Metagross, but the Dragon + Rock + Ice resistances (that Zapdos & Flygon are weak to) are very much needed.

    EDIT: OK, my streak ended at 111, vs a Ground team with Hippo, Donphan, and something I forgot (Rhydon or Rhyperior? Or something else, totally forgot. It never even came out. I just remember it was NOT water/ground and that it was definitely a Ground type).

    I remember that I used Heatwave + Outrage (which hit Hippo). Hippo Cursed while Donphan Seed Bombed Flygon for >50% damage. After that I forgot exactly what happened, but I just recall that Donphan KO'd Metagoss with its first Fissure, Hippo used Slack Off after curse and then KO'd Flygon with Crunch. I think Donphan KO'd Zapdos with Stone Edge? I forgot about that one.
  5. darkseeker4

    darkseeker4

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    I really dont want to reveal this team till i get a good record.But I really need advice.

    Jolteon
    Focus Sash/Timid/252 spe rest split in hp/sp.def
    Yawn/charm/flash/sub

    Garchomp
    Lum berry/Jolly/252 att/spe 6 hp
    SD/Sub/outrage/Eq

    Infernape
    Sitrus berry/leftovers/expert belt/Lifeorb/252 sp.att/240 spe/8 hp/4 sp.def
    Np/sub/flamethrower/vacum wave

    Wanted to try out infernape peterko mentioned so I threw together this team.Need help on gettting past this.Haven't faced it yet but might.

  6. shipship

    shipship

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    This is one of the best Battle Tower pokemon I have ever found:

    Zapdos @ Leftovers
    Timid, Pressure
    EV's: 248 HP, 42 SpDef, 220 Speed
    ~ Thunderbolt
    ~ Substitute
    ~ Toxic
    ~ Roost

    220 speed with a neutral nature outspeeds neutral-natured base 110's and positive-natured base 95's. There's not much point in going higher.

    The strategy is to Toxic things, and then use a combination of Substitute, Roost, and Zapdos's high speed to stall the opposition until they die from Toxic. Thunderbolt is the obvious choice for your single attack. Zapdos's Pressure ability is perfect for this role, as you can stall out Stone Edges after just 3 Substitutes and Roost your health back, and Ice Beams after just 5 Substitutes. You'd be amazed at how many pokemon this thing can beat 1-on-1. Substitute is also the perfect anti-OHKO move, as OHKO moves only have 3 PP's with Pressure and can be outstalled as long as the opponent is slower (or doesn't activate Quick Claw).

    This Zapdos is completely walled by Nidoking/Queen and Steelix, but you have 2 other pokemon to work with.

    Palmer's 49th battle can be swept with this Zapdos alone (Toxic-stall Cresselia and Regigigas, and use Substitute to waste Magma Storm's PP after which it can't touch you).
  7. Jumpman16

    Jumpman16 np: Michael Jackson - "Mon in the Mirror" (DW mix)
    is a Smogon IRC SOPis a Site Staff Alumnusis a Team Rater Alumnusis a Battle Server Admin Alumnusis a Researcher Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis an Administrator Alumnus

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    no it doesn't (and i know you meant to say beneficial instead of the first neutral)

    how exactly would you have trouble with this? just yawn it, go out to garchomp, and actually hope it uses sub turn 1 or 2 instead of DTing twice. +2 eq is an easy 2HKO and even easier if it decides to sub, i'd be much more worried about pokemon like lum/dd kingdra and lapras and latios in general because you will never know its set on turn one and if you yawn and it DDes you have a choice between facing a -1 Latios that wont let garchomp set up (or beat you with a ch dragon claw) or a +1 Latios with -1 accuracy if you flash turn two instead
  8. FriDanny

    FriDanny

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    I'm new to this so please don't be too rough on me.

    I was wondering if a pokemon that can learn a platinum tutor move and is then transferred to diamond/pearl would count in the winning streak. I would assume so since Jumpman's top Diamond/Pearl single's record includes a Scizor with bullet punch. I would just like some confirmation before I post a record only to find out it wouldn't count.

    Anyway, it's not that important since I would think diamond/pearl is outdated :P I'm working on a doubles winning streak with a Heat Wave Zapdos, that's all.
  9. FriDanny

    FriDanny

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    Thank you. Missed it I guess :( Was looking all over the front page for it. Anyway, I'll get back when my streak ends :P
  10. Chinese Dood

    Chinese Dood

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    So! I decided to continue my Single Battle Arcade streak today (it was at 49 since I didn't bother playing it after getting goldprint). I was just using random (mostly) hard attacking teams for #1 - 49 (see: http://www.smogon.com/forums/showpost.php?p=2043777&postcount=776 ), involving Porygon-Z / Milotic / Gengar / Metagross / Starmie / Gyarados.

    Today I just decided to use the team I used for Double Battle Castle earlier on this page though (2nd post on this page). But of course, in Single Detect and having 2 electric moves on Zapdos is a bit stupid, so I got my Zapdos to have Thunderbolt / Heatwave / Roost / Toxic instead. After a while, for some reason I decided to use Heatran over Metagross, for no apparent reason. My Heatran was Timid with Flamethrower / Dragon Pulse / Earth Power / Substitute (usually it held leftovers outside of battle arcade) and I stuck with that.

    Timid Zapdos: Thunderbolt / Heatwave / Toxic / Roost
    Timid Heatran: Flamethrower / Dragon Pulse / Earth Power / Substitute
    Adamant Flygon: Outrage / Fire Punch / Earthquake / U-Turn (Roost would have been better since it's not choiced in arcade anymore, but then I don't want to waste my Roost TM just for battle arcade)

    I just have to say Zapdos is amazing. Even without sub (which works so well with pressure + roost), Toxic + Roost lets me stall out a ton of stuff. Flygon without that Scarf wasn't nearly as good, but o well. Heatran's resistances come in handy. Anyway, I got 68 streak ... and lost to Trick Room.

    Trick Room was what I got on my roulette and I already knew I was in trouble because I see Lapras as one of my opponents. Zapdos OHKO'd something I forgot but took some damage. Lapras was slower than all my pokemon, so it ice beamed Zapdos for the KO and Flygon (easy OHKO) and Surf critical hit and OHKOd Heatran, and that was that.

    Hm, interesting that that's 3rd on the Battle Arcade record list. My team obviously isn't that well constructed. I suppose not many people like Battle Arcade either.
  11. Destiny100

    Destiny100

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    Aug 10, 2009
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    Okay, I'm trying to make a team to get that 100 streak. And I have a few questions.

    1. At what stage do pokemon kind of stop getting harder? I'm guessing it should be consistly hard after streak 49?

    2. What's the most effiective way to getting that 100 Streak? Trick Room? Trick'ing choice items or full blown attack.

    At the moment I'm just using Jolteon, Magnezone and Swampert. I fail around 50-60 mark XD. Yeah I have two EQ weakness but I don't die from EQ or ground moves - or haven't as of yet.
  12. kingbattlus

    kingbattlus

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    the best strategy for long streaks is using trick. the teams that have the best records are linked in the first post you could go there for ideas.
  13. darkseeker4

    darkseeker4

    Joined:
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    thanks for the advice,Ill try and see what latios does cause if it stas up ill put it to sleep and keep charm/flash ing it.no problem?as forr lum pokes.
    Yawn-->chamr/flash-->yawn-->charm/flash depeindnig on situation or your dead and ready to setup.sash and jolts speed gaurentees two turns.But yeah ill have to work around that!
  14. wtansley

    wtansley

    Joined:
    Jun 19, 2008
    Messages:
    55
    Platinum Battle Tower Singles Record: 259

    Uxie @ Choice Scarf
    Ability: Levitate
    Nature: Calm
    IVs: 28-29 / 0-3 / 26-27 / 28-29 / 24-25 / 20 (best I could be bothered to SR)
    EVs: 252 HP / 66 Def / 192 Spe

    - Trick
    - Flash
    - Thunder Wave
    - Memento

    Standard trick lead Uxie, enough Speed to outrun almost everything with the scarf (and still lots after I've tricked), max HP and the rest in Defense seeing as it's Calm.

    Garchomp @ Leftovers
    Ability: Sand Veil
    Nature: Jolly
    IVs: 30 / 31 / 31 / x / 29 / 31
    EVs: 72 HP / 186 Att / 252 Spe

    - Substitute
    - Swords Dance
    - Earthquake
    - Dragon Claw

    Enough HP to reach a good Leftovers number, max Speed for obvious reasons, and the rest in Attack. I still don't know about Outrage vs Dragon Claw, I know Outrage packs a lot more immediate power and it probably would have saved me a few of the times I lost in previous streaks, but I still hate the confusion (would have to use Lum Berry) and the inability to switch attacks after using it. Besides, at +4 or +6 Chomp is OHKOing basically everything anyway, and the things like Bronzong and Skarmory are 2HKO'd by either of Claw/Outrage either way. As far as I can tell, Outrage is only better in situations where things went wrong during the setup and it's down to Chomp with only one SD (or none) vs a mystery foe.

    Scizor @ Sitrus Berry
    Ability: Technician
    Nature: Adamant
    IVs: 29 / 30 / 29 / 28 / 30 / 31
    EVs: 98 HP / 248 Att / 164 Spe

    - Substitute
    - Swords Dance
    - Bullet Punch
    - Superpower

    Standard Scizor, doesn't need any explanation, we all know about this guy. 248 Att because with the 30 IV, maxing Att doesn't add a stat point at Lv50.

    So yeah, unoriginal Trick team, not that I care because it's known that Trick is the best strategy for BT and who the best pokemon are for the strategy. I would've liked to try Latios/Latias but I don't have access to decent natured/IV ones.

    How I lost:

    Having used this team for the last few weeks (and suffered a few losses) I know what the dangerous leads are and one of the most dangerous is definitely Salamence. After a loss where I tricked a lead mence and it proceeded to KO my entire team with outrage (CH on Scizor and naturally it didn't hit itself in confusion at all) I decided to Flash this time. Usually, if Chomp is faster than a foe on -2 accuracy or less I am able to sub until it misses and then get an SD or two. So I flash, and it DD's. Not good (and annoying how the battle would have been a formality if I tricked, but whatever, lead Mence is a lottery if it could be any of the 4 sets). It Dragon Claws and I survive on red HP.. and flinch. lol. Goddamn Razor Fang. He kills Uxie and OHKO's Scizor and Chomp with Fire Fang/Dragon Claw. Don't really care at this point though, since I only wanted to break 200.

    Didn't bother to take a pic, as I didn't make the top 3.
  15. PremiumVerumFatum

    PremiumVerumFatum

    Joined:
    Jun 21, 2009
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    First, another rather boring record. I finally managed to beat Argenta and the Battle Hall; watch this. ;) Later, I got kicked out with 202 wins because of that. For the curious, the set was Sash, SD, EQ, Outrage, Flamethrower throughout the run. Maybe I'll also do 170+ with other Pokémon. Maybe I'll even use Infernape again, though the first 5 types are really annoying sometimes (Poliwrath, Blastoise, Uxie, Gallade etc. are like perfect counters) and Argenta did cheat me out at 169 again. :D



    Second, I need a bit help from you more experienced Trick abusers. I was playing by that strategy the first time and somewhere long before 100, I met Tinted Lens Yanmega. For some reason, I believe that a simple Trick could have saved me from all that trouble, so Scizor could have wasted the 10 Bug Buzzes and I even knew it was Yanmega 4 because of the trainer... But I think I was afraid of Speed Boost Air Slash which would actually never happen, huh. Any opinions?

    Besides, I was thinking about replacing Latios with Latias for more bulk, but then damage calculations told me that Latias's Substitute would have been broken after one CM as well (so what is that -2 from Memento good for anyway </sarcasm>, no, Uxie and Memento are great in most cases). That's why I'm sticking to Latios for the next try. Though, I might change the EVs a bit, so that it packs 161 HP which would allow it to create five Substitutes without Recovering. Any opinions there, again? The team, in short, would be:

    ~ Uxie: Choice Scarf, Trick, Thunder Wave, Safeguard (need status proof against stuff like Jolteon or random side effects in some cases), Memento
    ~ Scizor: Life Orb, Substitute, Swords Dance, Roost, Bullet Punch (I like this defensive version more than the offensive 2-attack set, because it can, for example, stall Heracross out of those vicious Megahorns, still get +6 and packs a more devastating Bullet Punch then)
    ~ Latios: Leftovers, Substitute, Calm Mind, Recover, Dragon Pulse (Uxie protects him from status ailments, so I can Recover, which only leaves me vulnerable for one turn instead of three, it also did save me from Kingdra 4 in another close match)

    Thanks in advance for help.
  16. PremiumVerumFatum

    PremiumVerumFatum

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    With Life Orb, Bullet Punch 2HKOs anything without double resistance and even two out of the four Heatrans, while one of those two bulky Heatrans can't even hurt Scizor (!). And if +6 Subbed Scizor really gets beaten, there is a good chance Uxie is still alive to cripple them in some way. I'm really more worried about Heracross, Dragons etc. that could prevent me from getting +6 or even CH me to hell. My worst nightmare after the setup would probably be BrightPowder Magnezone, then... Well, thanks.
  17. Calisto

    Calisto

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    Imho the problem with Scizor is not really sweeping but rather setting up. That crappy special defence that will bite you in the ass at some point when you can't set up your other sweeper. Scizor-Lati@s is fantastic type coverage but is misleading in terms of resisting special and physical defence. Shadow Ball alone presents you with threats in the form of Gengar, Mismagius, Gardevoir, Metagross, Espeon, Yanmega... Sure, against some of these you can probably pull off a SD or even 2, but it will still leave you vulnerable and usually without a sub. Which is exactly when that bad special defence can once again be very frustrating because a lot of things can take you out in one hit.

    Sometimes your Trick lead will be messed up for instance when you Trick Specs or Choice Scarf. If you are then forced to switch in Scizor's feable defence, frequently that will be a serious blow to your team's chances. Even Trick missing with Brightpowder might mean you need to rely on the raw power of your team to secure a victory. I love Scizor but due to its mediocre speed and special defence, I personally prefer bulky things like this instead:



    [​IMG]
    Tyranitar @ Leftovers
    Nature: Adamant
    Trait: Sandstream
    EVs: 252 Att, 252 HP, 6 Def
    • Dragon Dance
    • Substitute
    • Crunch
    • Protect
    If you run Flash over Safeguard on your Uxie this thing will take care of pretty much anything barring Bug moves. The PP-stalling ability of Protect-Sub is something nobody else seems to be using but works phenomenally. Once you do get to a +6 Crunch DDtar with a sub, you've pretty much won already. Good luck with future streaks! You have a nice team, but like all teams it has some things to watch out for =)
  18. DrDimentio

    DrDimentio

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    I have a feeling that the user wtansley's team a few posts above was inspired by mine on the records list... probably wrong though.

    Anyway, I agree with Calisto's point that having a bulkier setup sweeper can prove more useful, and so I'll probably try a Tyranitar instead of Scizor for my next Tower attempt.

    I think I'll go and investigate whether any of the moveset additions in HG/SS have any potential in the Tower...
  19. wtansley

    wtansley

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    lol, it was inspired by the Trick strategy in general that dominates the top of the records list; I didn't actually see your team before starting my streak.

    As you said in your post reporting your streak:

    And as I said, I would've used Latios/Latias was I able to get my hands on a decent one ;)
  20. PremiumVerumFatum

    PremiumVerumFatum

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    Ok, my next streak ended at 71 wins... Battle 72 featured the infamous Metagross 4 lead which got two attack boosts with the first two MMs, so Uxie couldn't even paralyze it. Then, Scizor couldn't stall it, because it never missed and finally, against Latios, the Struggle nullified Recover after subbing away the final two MMs. Reason enough to change my team or work on a new one, but now I'm seriously wondering how to beat a Metagross that gets two boosts instantly. Is a "naked" Garchomp the only way?

    Hmm, I might try Tyranitar on a different team. I did even have an idea for a new team, but well, it would be beaten even more severely by +2 Metagross... Maybe, one could distract it from using MM by using a steel-resistant trickster, but there are only 4 of them and they are not quite convincing... Shedinja would be too slow from the start. Metagross gets nothing besides Flash and magical walls, same for Bronzong. Slowbro would have a better movepool, but it's very slow and Electric Pokémon are enemies known to be fast, so that would be also difficult...
  21. Jumpman16

    Jumpman16 np: Michael Jackson - "Mon in the Mirror" (DW mix)
    is a Smogon IRC SOPis a Site Staff Alumnusis a Team Rater Alumnusis a Battle Server Admin Alumnusis a Researcher Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis an Administrator Alumnus

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    you should have used memento on turn one and then SDed with scizor knowing that it always kills and that you need to cut your losses and get yanmega off your screen as fast as possible. you kind of overrelied on both roost and recover here

    i think you're underestimating roost, none of those pokemon are beating scizor if they're locked into shadowball and especially if they're paralyzed as gardy espeon and metagross should be

    i know you're a tyranitar fan and all but this gives him a triple bug weakness, and besides being faster than tyranitar scizor makes speed a moot point with bullet punch which can kill so much of the tower after just one swords dance and LO. and missing a trick with BP is probably more problematic for bulky sweepers than it is for scizor, you'd have to rely just as much on bulk as he would on raw power

    that's not the only way to beat metagross at all, i've beaten metagross with scizor tons of times and even with lucario. im not sure how you werent able to paralyze metagross because a bold uxie isn't 2HKOed by metagross without a ch and if those EVs are in defense they should be in speed to ensure you're always faster after turn two. that said you're not really in a good position to beat metagross anyway with just bullet punch, that is probably reason enough to scrap your mono-attacking scizor idea since you dont have reflect on uxie (nor should you).

    my Metatarsal (Metagross/Tyranitar/Salamence) trick team was retired because i was tired of trick teams at the time (i still am in a way), but it is very solid in the attacks it draws and only really dislikes lead AS lucario and ohkoers (besides fissure) because a few are faster than how I EVed salamence. besides that it's very good from what i experienced when i used it

    and you're forgetting about starmie anyway, the main problems with trick on starmie is yanmega and heracross but that's nothing that couldn't be solved by a lucario if you wanted to be cool (or registeel if you wanted to be boring). rotom would be great if gamefreak weren't stupid and allowed the appliance formes in the BT
  22. Calisto

    Calisto

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    If you just want to have a nice streak, you could try a team that I have already tested out. It is quite a fun team and slightly different to many other Trick teams out there. It incidentally also includes Shedinja, but rather as support/back-up sweeper than a Trick lead. It is a pretty solid team imho with only one weakness, Mold Breaker Pinsir. Here is a link if you are interested. I played around 300 battles with this team, still undefeated. This includes leads like Scarfed Rampardos, which may seem to be a problem at first. In practice you can defeat most teams as long as you are careful and patient enough to find out their possible pokemon and movesets.

    The advantage is that you can already sniff out so many things about their pokemon with Shedinja. For example you switch your Shedinja in at turn 1 vs a Water pokemon that you know can't possibly touch Shedinja in any way. If they don't switch next and the only Abomasnow they can send has Shadow Ball, you know he won't have it. Victory is pretty much guaranteed then if the trainer can't have Hippowdon. Just set up Shedinja and sweep.
    If they do switch (you will have switched back to Uxie), you might get a second shot at Tricking the enemy into a Fire, Flying, Rock or Ghost move that Tyranitar loves. Not Tricked into Fire, Flying, Ghost or Rock? Also fine because then you can just switch to Shedinja after Trick and set him up without risk of them switching out! This might seem very random, but small inferences like this make this team a lot more interesting and flexible to play with.

    I actually planned to continue this streak until I encountered a Pinsir (Mold Breaker, Hyper Cutter is easy) lead as I thought this is the only thing that can defeat this team. In theory things like Explosion can destroy so many Trick teams but they don't happen in practice... I never saw any Pinsir leads and discontinued the streak eventually because I got bored. If they do send out Pinsir leads at this team, I think its safe to say it is pretty rare.

    If I did encounter a Pinsir, this is what I would have tried. Use T-wave with Uxie and switch to Shedinja. Sacrifice Shedinja trying to stall a little with DT. Send in Uxie and Flash as much as you can before you die. Hopefully Sub, Protect, T-wave and Flash will now be enough to set up Tyranitar. If they are being stupid by using things like Endure, SD or missing Guilotine, things will probably get easier and I might go for the KO instead. Sure the chances aren't fantastic, but they are there =)
  23. Jumpman16

    Jumpman16 np: Michael Jackson - "Mon in the Mirror" (DW mix)
    is a Smogon IRC SOPis a Site Staff Alumnusis a Team Rater Alumnusis a Battle Server Admin Alumnusis a Researcher Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis an Administrator Alumnus

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    man that's an annoying post, why are you giving the strategy about a team you expressly asked me personal advice about and then posting it like you thought of the problems yourself? you asked me what i thought the threats to your team was less than three weeks ago, don't pretend like you knew that before you asked me (or that anyone wants to try this team)
  24. Calisto

    Calisto

    Joined:
    Jun 11, 2009
    Messages:
    79
    I can't ask what people think are threats to a team in case I missed out any? I had already done over 200 battles by the time I asked it here, aware of the threats you mentioned. However, I hadn't spent forever going through every pokemon in the tower thinking about what combination can defeat me. So I thought it was very possible I had overlooked something. Assuming that I couldn't have possibly noticed that Mold Breaker is trouble for Shedinja is pretty arrogant from your part. You know a lot about this game because you play much more than most of us, but it doesn't make you omniscient and certainly doesn't give you the right to insult people...
  25. PremiumVerumFatum

    PremiumVerumFatum

    Joined:
    Jun 21, 2009
    Messages:
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    Thanks again for help. I just realized a major error in my team...

    Hmm, that's somehow right and actually I knew about the "enhanced luck" of the AI after having read various war stories; but still, I see two problems in this approach:
    1) Yanmega would, of course, still be faster than Scizor and be able to select Air Slash which can CH or flinch. Is that really the best I can do?
    2) Right now, this problem doesn't even exist for me, but it would if I changed single-attack Life Orb Scizor for two-attack Scizor without Life Orb, as most people here, including you, prefer. With only one Swords Dance, Life Orb would be required for the OHKO, with Metal Coat it would not safely OHKO and without a boosting item, Yanmega couldn't be OHKOed without a CH. So how exactly would you deal with it? Try to SD twice or Bullet Punch twice?

    I'm confirming this except for modest Espeon andAlakazam. They unfortunately do have a chance to 2HKO my Uxie (only maxed out HP with 29/29 IVs), but they are still not able to OHKO Scizor's Substitute without a CH or special defense drop, so I can stall them out of Shadow Balls and setup at the same time.
    Well, I met a Download Porygon-Z once and it got the drop on Scizor right on the first try... I had to finish it with +2 and got stopped by Kingdra 4 afterwards, which was ultimately beaten by Latios.


    ...And there my fatal error got revealed. Because Uxie needs some speed, it is not possible to survive "2.5 MMs" (the normal first one and the boosted second one), but I was indeed too slow. 134 speed to outpace Aerodactyl/Crobat/Jolteon, but two points short for Scarfed Metagross at 135. I will fix that, thanks.

    I will reconsider it. Any help on the changed Yanmega issue there, as written above?

    AS = Aura Sphere? How does that beat Salamence? And just out of curiosity, Metagross would be packing Trick, Flash, Reflect and Light Screen or would you use it with some means of attacking?

    Right, I overlooked Starmie somehow. Lucario would be the more likely choice then, because I don't like how Registeel cries out loud for crits.



    I did actually follow the discussion on this team, but well, I'm still new to Trick teams after all and this one is rather advanced and furthermore appears pretty defensive, which would prolong many battles... Besides, I also don't like using something that I haven't built myself in some way. Of course, Uxie, Scizor and Latios for themselves are nothing new, but the team was not knowingly copied from someone else; I just gathered and put together successful ideas, adjusted them to my preference and just played for experience. I might very well use something totally different one day, but for now I will use a new version of my team again (more speed for Uxie and maybe another Scizor). It's not like good records grow on trees anyway; they are to be deserved.

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