Platinum/HG/SS Battle Frontier and DP Battle Tower Records

Discussion in 'Stark Mountain' started by Peterko, Apr 4, 2009.

  1. e.j.

    e.j.

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    ^Tanner, yawn stalling sounds like a great idea, probably too slow for my tastes though :P
    How did you beat Tauros? I don't think I've found a way to beat it yet, especially when I have to worry about all the other normal types (too diverse >.>)
  2. Peterko

    Peterko Never give up!
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    Glen use this list (almost complete, like 7/100 trainers to go)

    http://www.smogon.com/forums/showpost.php?p=2159854&postcount=4

    I added all the movesets to each group of trainers that use the same roster (the first list is the quick info one, the other is further down)

    use with this list (has the stats, also fixed some errors in the lv.50 stats, dragonite was wrong before)

    http://www.smogon.com/forums/showpost.php?p=2159836&postcount=2

    you can find everything in this topic: http://www.smogon.com/forums/showthread.php?t=60119

    OK this made me chuckle. I´ll be a bitch (which I´m not) and say that I don´t have to state anything except that I got the 696 streak without flash. :p

    Why don´t you just post your 800, 900 or 1435 CLS streak already please :p instead of wasting your time with a flash>recover discussion. After that get a higher streak than I have with latias-luca/scizor-chomp with flash, which would end any discussion lol. I know you want to help or prove you know best how to use a trick lead or any trick team in general, because you invented the strategy for the tower (THERE I SAID IT), but let the stupid ones (like me) lose their streaks to not listening to you and whine later about how they lost in this topic haha, it´s more fun this way.

    To be honest, no clue when it saved me, because I just play and don´t think about this kind of stuff. I´ll stop here because at this point I don´t have the will to analyze/theorymon, only to play the tower with the experience of over 1000 battles with this team, knowing when I have to stop and think for a minute when facing particular leads. Also i don´t have the guts to change a moveset in the middle of a relatively good streak and „learn“ how to use flash on the run even if it was waaay better than recover, which it´s not. I´m not saying that flash sucks, I just don´t think it would help me with my current playstyle and all as much as you state.

    Gastrodon4 can go to hell and I´ll deal with it when I meet it, somehow...haha maybe I´ll lose, whatever. Recently, I had to handle interesting cases cases of BUhera, special draggy because I have to charm draggy, lappy2 perishsinging making me SDoutrage naked with chomp against an ice trainer and die to the song because he switchen in aboma, the 1% trickmiss on lapras4 while getting hit straight in the face with a freezing ice beam, also the trickmiss with the sub-drill-focuspunch-dpulse nido, where I seeked your help haha, etc. I remember these for a day or two and can´t be bothered to write them down even though they´re fun, because it would slow me down.

    Also copying movesets/EV spreads without considering your other team-members isn´t the best way to get a high streak, meaning that I shake my head if people copy the latias just like that and fail. I think the same applies to you jump if you see how everyone wastes your wisdom by not following your advice haha.

    Random note: That 696 is quite a high number to be honest and pretty freaking far...

    now that I wrote it up in word I have to post it...

    Hmm, not an ideal case, but it helped me win against freaking kingler which got thankfully locked into crabhammer, I stalled it and then setup up chomp on struggle. My two guys can´t take crabhammer or I don´t want them to, also hello high CH-rate. I can´t risk to t-wave or don´t want to. Hello charm, it´s hyper cutter. If you say flash here (I remember you said you t-wave personally, but our teams are different)...wait, doesn´t work on guilottine and if he hit the first one I´d manage maybe one flash and I bet my money on him hitting each of my subs, which means I don´t set up. Yeah, I don´t feel that confident or suicidal to SD naked against kingler (note: I see kingler more often than gastro).

    I stall leech seed with recover so that latias can live haha. But seriously, I would have to go through all of the 700 pokémon, which would help me remember the cases where I liked to have recover, but I don´t feel like it.

    Also here some of my reasons which I have to post because I had nothing better to do (not really):

    1. I changed my play-style from before, because I learned that I dislike having latias dead, it´s simple as that. There are many cases where recover helps me to get another charm or two and/or t-wave and leaving latias with good health to potentially save my butt later in the battle to charm/t-wave. Latias simply can´t pull trick-wave-3charm on most stuff...with recover it does and is able to get back later.
    2. The psychological aspect - you´re very confident in flash and it probably helps you a lot, it´s just that I don´t trust accuracy/evasion, at the level of freaking CHs...I mean if they can get a 32x damage increase, what ensures that they won´t hit me at the right time even with lowered accuracy? I´m saying this despite not feeling that accuracy/evasion is that broken in the tower (yeah sometimes they hit 5/5 blizzards with 2 freezes and sometimes they miss 5 dynamicpunches, OHKO moves average at 2/5 hits for me)

    other random stuff:
    draco meteor – most of the time OHKOs latias, it´s OK for steel to face this if I trick, but I have to charm the outrage dragons and all of them have a special set with this, very tricky situation
    outrage – probably the worst move for me as STAB on this is more spread around than STAB megahorn...they hit hard and CHs hurt even more
    dragon pulse – set up registeel, sniper kingdra is a possible threat with triple CHs
    dragon claw – easier to handle than outrage and doesn´t make me worry as much
    megahorn – heracross is a bitch and I charm, the following turns depend on the set I´m facing...it has to be said that it´s not that dangerous without CHs
    x-scissor – 50% weaker than megahorn, relatively hurts from things like scizor...again, CHs are the ones that matter
    signal beam – switch to registeel after the first hit and set up
    crunch – similar to x-scissor and clear body is my friend
    night slash – dangerous with super luck, played a major role in me losing the 696 streak when I tricked instead of charm
    bite – rare and weak
    dark pulse – amnesia is my friend
    shadow claw – almost always without STAB and steel sets up
    shadow ball – pretty much the most frequent move against latias, steel doesn´t care, as long as it´s not the rare gengar or missy using this...everything should be fine unless they start to excessively CH
    blizzard – 5 PP so I try to set up chomp after steel wastes these
    ice beam – up there with shadow ball and signal beam s far as frequency of use goes, but much worse as stuff gets STAB on it and freezes...last time a jynx 9HKOed my steel with the help of freeze and some CHs, stalling this with just amnesia most of the time anyway to set up chomp
    ice punch – quite frequent and most of the time I switch out to registeel right after trick
    ice fang – very rare

    EDIT: yeah so I´ll be able to properly discuss the flash vs recover thing probably when I finish my streak (maybe)
  3. Jumpman16

    Jumpman16 np: Michael Jackson - "Mon in the Mirror" (DW mix)
    is a Smogon IRC SOPis a Pokemon Researcheris a Contributor to Smogonis an Administratoris a Site Staff Alumnusis a Team Rater Alumnusis a Battle Server Admin Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnus

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    yeah i want to use infernape too mainly because of this

    684 Atk vs 182 Def & 325 HP (156 Base Power): 330 - 388 (101.54% - 119.38%)

    this is modest +6 wise glasses blaze ft on 21/21 hp/SpD iv modest blissey. and blaze is possible if you use sub instead of worrying about perfect coverage. obviously this is the most favorable situation you can have besides flame plate (dont use lo), but i'm not sure how you calced cause even a timid +6 no blaze or boosting item +6 ft on calm 31/31 hp/SpD iv blissey will 2hko 98% of the time. either way that calc should tell you something—if you arent one of two blissey, thick fat snorlax, kingdra, or a flash fire pokemon, you have no chance of surviving +6 Modest WG Blaze FT. some of those pokes die to the slightly stronger +6 vacuum wave (40 vs 35.62), including probably all the flash fire pokes, kingdra 90% of the time, etc. you get the picture...blaze FT is absolutely sick, and base 104 SpA isn't even all that impressive for a bt sweeper

    VW's priority preempts quick claw btw, which is almost the real main reason to use infernape, so dont worry about getting QCed by the myriad pokemon that have it...even more, literally over 75% of them at a glance are weak to fighting and are going to die to +6 VW

    yeah i guess i should finally post about this, lol. the first set i used was DD/Outrage/Yawn/Protect@Sash, because this "literally beats everything" and lets you EVs for HP and Attack. as you noted, this beats every single dragon type because none have sash, only a first turn sandstorm from garchomp has a remote change of beating this kingdra and that never happened. im gonna post some of my theorymon like i did with tyra or whatever and bold the relevant parts instead of reinventing the wheel:

    *****

    ok, if 292 speed, need: sub or sash or chople. 292 speed is faster than all Lv 96 dragons
    259 Def needed to survive infernape LO FO+CC Infernape is a bith and that Def is required if no Protect


    Chilan: helps against infernape and lax, but still requires 292 speed. protect helps against ape too lax is CB and has GI, originally a massive threat till i realized it never ever used GI. seriously gave chilan thought with thinking this was a threat and knowing what ape would do too

    if 292 speed and no chilan OR sash OR protect: Jolly, 260/259/292 atk/def/spe (EVs: 136/132/240). this means yawn/sub/dd/or@chilan pretty much.
    this means that salamence OHKOs 19.23% of the time with DC…lol nm more like 95% because of liechi, sheesh at the time i didnt realize that DDing on turn one would be the way to go

    ok outrage never kills salamence even at 289 attack because of intim. you can drop attack for more defense if you still want to use chilan to make sure you never activate its liechi while still being faster and not being killed by DC (DM would be nice here, huh), but even 226 attack does 64.78-77.36%. at least lv96 389 atk DC only does 93.56% max but do you kill stuff like dragonite now? nope, only 7.69% of the time. chilan is out

    …but why wouldn’t i just dd on sala? ding ok and miscalc, sala at lv96 like it’s supposed to be only ohkos 2.56% of the time on 291hp/259def and never on 260 def, think i can spare 4EVs if it’s worth it. this now means 259Atk/260Def/292Spe…now it’s a 7.69% chance that dragonite messes you up (aside from CHing)…i guess it would make more sense to add more attack. 261/258/292 is same 2.56% chance of salamence killing you, which is a little higher thanks to CH chance (cause you have to DD), but may be worth it compared to 7.69% (it is [if chilan set actually works lol]). oh yeah infernape…don’t really care, max+max isn’t happening, ch chance is a lot higher.

    so, sash 292 speed. still need 259 def for infernape. 260 attack is a 99.39% OHKO on dragonite so may want 261 (infernape’s not doing max damage twice and it CHing is a non-issue). this at first means yawn/sub/dd/or@sash. thankfully DD/GI, OR/recharge, OR/recharge always kills lax, doing 51.81% min.

    ok right now, or/dd/yawn/protect. no longer need to outspeed garchomp. can just DD on literally every dragon, no speed needed there. magnezone 2hkos with thunder literally no matter what (referring to even max hp/SpD kingdra), so i guess that’s good. also if you don’t have to outspeed stuff anymore, why not boost another stat? (hint: attack)

    291hp/259def still dies on average to meta’s zh+zh+bp, at 46.39 46.39 11.68. i do 33.22% on average with +1 outrage at 317 attack (max). however, +3 does 51.21% min with 317 attack. dropping attack to 308 magic point still does 49.83% min, which 2hkoes 99.41% of the time. but first, with 317 attack:

    yawn (hope for LS)/zh, 54%.
    protect/whatever, falls sleep.
    dd/sleep
    dd/sleep (please)
    then: dd/wake, zh, 8%, you lose. OR dd/sleep, or/wake, zh, 8%, bp, dead. "OR" is or, "or" is outrage lol

    therefore, with 317atk/259def, you still die to avg zh+zh+bp damage, even if it sleeps three turns.

    so 308atk/268def/237spe (which doesn’t give magic point boost for some reason)…even though you don’t need to outpace maggy anymore (keep that in mind) EeveeTrainer had mentioned the confuse ray/sb/mean look/perish song mismagius as being gay the day i wrote this but i didnt know he was talking about tower, which obviously has difference set, so yeah

    metagross does 44.33% on average with zh, and 11.34% on average with bp which of course is exactly a 3HKO on average. i don’t even know what this means with miss chances and ch chances and qc chances (and qc flinch chances), but whatever. (meaning it's more likely misses and qc and flinches would play a part than "average damage over three turns") as for speed absolutely needed?

    infernape takes 82% min from 308 attack outrage btw, so just protect/or (because it will CC and drop its defenses [besides being at 90% after LO recoil]). primeape and maggy also die

    wrath is 2hkoed 87.51% of the time by unboosted 317 atk outrage, only 67.78% of the time by 308 (mattered because of hypnosis). does 49% min with focus blast. at least machamp is always 2HKoed by 308 atk or (mattered because of no guard dynamic punch).

    sorry gliscor, you never 2hko 291/268 with EQ (49.83% max). eq/yawn

    317 atk means 35.19% average damage to zone after 1 dd (zone is megalame because of max defense and GANLON BERRY lol). +2 only does 42-50% so you will probably have to have a 3-turn OR no matter what (even then it’s not like you’re guaranteed to hit yourself [and meaning going for more than one DD for a 2hko made less sense]). 308 +1 or on lv96 zone is 34.44% average damage, so really see if you need 237 speed

    okay. aero is 344 speed, and you need 230 speed to outpace it after a DD. however, its se only does 50.86% max to kingdra, a 2.56% chance of a “2HKO”. so 230 speed is a *maybe*. unboosted outrage didnt ohko so i had to dd, and being slower after one dd would suck since it could win with out taking a hit etc.

    308 atk means 87.18% chance of OHKO on zapdos with +1 OR. it’s 226 speed. faster means 230 speed and therefore 315atk/268def/230spe: thunder/yawn, protect/whatever, dd/sleep, or/death, lol absolute min needed to ohko zappy (100.32%). slower means…nothing there’s no reason lol it didnt make sense to just outrage because i had to take a thunder either way and if i got paralyzed at least zapdos would be asleep

    staraptor does 66.32% max with cc or bb. qa does 22.68% max. bb or cc/yawn, protect/whatever, fall asleep. sleep/dd. if bb, then it’s at max 244 HP. at +0 (intim), 315 atk or does a minimum of…240 hp lol. 317 does min of 243…it’s probably not worth it to trade those 8 EVs though because metagross is gay (if cc it takes 122% min from “unboosted” or)

    315 atk +2 OR does 51.54% min to skarmory. CH DP does 68.04% max, non ch does 34.02% max. “ok.”

    +1 OR does 52.31% min to regigigas. lum so just dd and OR and get it over with before it gets its act together.

    +1 OR easily 2HKOes licky (63.58% min, 50.26% max unboosted). you take 32-37% from bs, so yeah don’t get PARed (lol remember chilan berry? way to waste your time wasting your time [lol.])

    granbull (assuming intimidate): yawn/return (47.77-56.70%). protect/whatever. dd/sleep, or/please don’t wake up lol also don’t do max damage

    tauros (assuming intimidate): or/yawn. protect/whatever. dd/sleep, or/please don’t wake up lol

    kangaskhan? just outrage, you’re faster, 2HKO every time, and it cant just outrage then sucker punch turn 2 lol

    clefable: cute charm and lum (meaning yawn is a bad idea). its return does 34-40%, so dd twice and fire away i guess…or OR straight up, do 54% min, and never lose if it doesn’t have cute charm

    always 2HKO rhyperior with +1 315atk OR (exactly 50.00% min).

    always ohko garchomp now so definitely just or first turn, don’t give it two chances to sandstorm…or dd since a miss is a miss anyway…or yawn and protect no matter what, giving yourself a 100% win if it used dig, 100% chance to win if it used outrage (since it has to be asleep for one turn and you always ohko), 80% chance to win if it used twister (lol =/) which you can’t do anything about without max speed, and at worst an 80% chance to win if it used sandstorm (asleep for only one turn and you miss, 96% if asleep two turns, etc)

    103% min with +1 315 atk or on claydol has scarf for effective 268 speed and wasnt ohkoed by unboosted OR

    lol need differential of +5 to ensure 2hko on steelix…good thing it doesn’t have eq curse, sandstorm to break my sash, and atk/def EVs, this was a pain but i never lost to it with this set thanks in part to SNIPER

    i guess female kingdra since you’re less likely to lose to nidoking thanks to your def and his own being worse than nidoqueen’s) attract obviously

    need +4 to ensure 2HKO on aggron. 44.33-52.58% with SE. “ugh”. metal burst

    +2 ensures 3HKO on bastiodon. +4 for 2HKO.

    gonna want +3 on bronzong because of leftovers, please tr fag

    slowbro only does 44.33-52.58% with psychic. +1 or always 2hkoes it (62.70% min, fuck your sitrus berry)

    forry has a lum berry watch out for that i guess

    and uh watch out for skuntank aftermath too

    or does 62.28% min to regice (sitrus)…”ok”.

    naïve raikou hits 347 speed. 70.10% max with thunder (please ch) this always used light screen in practice meaning i always won with yawn, dd, outrage





    Kingdra@Focus Sash: Outrage/Dragon Dance/Yawn/Protect, 244Atk/168Def/96Spe, Adamant, Sniper, Lv100. enough speed to outpace aero with 345 speed after a dd, enough defense to give myseelf the best chance to beat metagross, and rest in attack

    *****

    however (there's more??????????), that does run into problems with faster pokes with status and flinching moves, so i used a variety of sets before 170.

    steel: .338 Lapua #1
    electric: .338 Lapua #2
    normal: Picked Off (snorlax) #3
    flying: Picked Off (salamence, crobat) #4
    fighting: Picked Off (infernape) #5
    psychic: .338 Lapua #6
    bug: Bounce Picked Off #7
    ice: No Scope #8
    ghost: No Scope #9
    ground: .338 Lapua@Focus Sash (garchomp, steelix) #10
    rock: .338 Lapua #11
    dark: Picked Off (sharpedo) #12
    poison: Picked Off (crobat, venusaur) #13
    grass: Picked Off (venusaur, meganium) #14
    fire: Picked Off (infernape) #15
    water: Picked Off (sharpedo) #16
    dragon: Picked Off (garchomp) #17

    this order was very, very important, had to do the harder ones first and make sure the sets were optimized for each type

    ".338 Lapua" was my Modest Specs Kingdra with Surf/DP/DM/Signal Beam for grasses pre-170, and this was the first poke to get the "Lapua" name i gave to Scizor (Dr. Lapua) because as i said months ago a .338 Lapua round "bullet" is used in many sniper rifles and given kingdra's Ability do the math, lol

    "No Scope" was a Lum Berry Adamant Kingdra with Bounce for pre-170 Shedinja

    I raised the speed of Picked Off to 246 to outpace Dragonite when I decided Lum was better in the long run than losing to random CHes from non-dragon pokemon, which of course then happened against an alakazam at battle ~178 and sceptile at battle ~175 to remember a few of them. salamence's DC almost never killed so it was less of an issue

    i finally settled on this kingdra for my non-DD option after battle 170:

    Ready...aim... (Kingdra) (M) @ Choice Specs
    Ability: Sniper
    EVs: 16 HP/240 Spd/252 SAtk
    Timid nature (+Spd, -Atk)
    - Surf
    - Draco Meteor
    - Ice Beam
    - Hidden Power [Ground]

    had to outspeed all dragons and needed hp ground for magnezone

    so paired with "Picked Off" this is how i eventually got to 208 or whatever i did, i could do better but i lost at least a dozen times to random CHes and misclicks over battle 100...

    hows that for an answer
  4. e.j.

    e.j.

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    Fucking fantastic, I'm astonished at the amount of thought you put into that, tyvm...I have a long way to go before getting to BF deity level. I was interested in going for a long streak with Kingdra but I doubt I could do better than what you did there, and even if I did, it wouldn't feel right at all using some else's effort/idea.

    Probably going to try and dig up a hidden gem pokemon from somewhere after Kingdra...Honchkrow would be good if Jolteon wasn't such an ass :/

    (but I suppose the truly viable pokes have been done already)
  5. fabsmg68

    fabsmg68

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    Hi all,
    after getting the gold plate in everything but battle factory, i was trying to reach rank 5 in wi-fi battle tower.... but after my leading chomp has been slaughtered several times by strong HP ICE by Shiny Gengars and Jolteons, i’m beginning to wonder about “legality”...
    i spent weeks breeding for high IV pkms, and particulary on the ones where i had to pass egg moves, since I had to breed for high IV fathers before....
    how much time does it take to breek shiny pkms with 31ivs and 70 (or so..) HP ice ? it’s clear enough that there are lots of pokesaved pkms in wi-fi battle tower.... so what do i do ?
    1) play on the same level and create my perfect pkms to use only in w-if
    2) go on with my legit team and losing to fakes pkms
    3) give it up
  6. Jumpman16

    Jumpman16 np: Michael Jackson - "Mon in the Mirror" (DW mix)
    is a Smogon IRC SOPis a Pokemon Researcheris a Contributor to Smogonis an Administratoris a Site Staff Alumnusis a Team Rater Alumnusis a Battle Server Admin Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnus

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    give up, the wifi tower is stupid because of the things you pointed out

    i just said yesterday that i dont have to help any of you with anything especially since i don't want competition so i dont know why you're stating the obvious as some kind of proof that recover is better than flash. but i am a helpful person by nature, especially on things where i know that i know what im talking about

    because knowledge of my current record doesn't help anyone with their efforts to gain battle points, or beat various battle frontier facilities, or get a second star or their trainer card. it would only help peterko worry more or less about his own record. if you want this to go back to just being a records thread only then i can enforce it and have people discuss their efforts elsewhere, otherwise i think it is entirely fair to ask the current #1 why he uses what he uses since others are inclined to copy him in their efforts to gain battle points, or beat various battle frontier facilities, or get a second star or their trainer card.

    you didn't really think it was fun losing to metagross and heracross, did you? and you can ask kingbattlus if losing to things that could have been avoided by reading these threads is "fun". i would rather help him. and e.j., and fabsmg68, and glen, and bozo...and this is just in the last two days.

    i'm not asking for your sake, i'm asking for everyone else's. i could say that i 100% know that recover is better than flash, but maybe there are situations where it has saved battles for you. i really doubt you "don't think about this kind of stuff" though, it's in our blood and that's a cop out =/

    i didn't write them down either, i remembered them and posted about them when people ask so they don't make the same mistakes i did last year.

    it has to ch latias twice in three turns with crabhammer and literally cannot escape being paralyzed on turn two either way, and even if it ches every turn or whatever you can still set garchomp up on struggle after it ches registeel to death, i'm not going to analyze too much

    this is more preference than anything i guess, i always sacrifice cress as i posted, or never switch latios/scizor into things that threaten them

    again, this is for everyone else, if i was the only one who cared what you personally thought i would just pm you or whatever. i'm comfortable with and without flash, remember i broke 300 with our favorite sexy NU bunny who doesn't learn sand attack or flash
  7. Peterko

    Peterko Never give up!
    is a Researcher Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus

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    fabsmg why don´t you just find the RNG abuse topic? then you´ll be able to get perfect hidden power pokémon with relative ease

    This is my favourite topic. I wonder who rated it less than 5 stars. Seriously. (open)


    it´s relatively late and I´m hungry...most likely my worst post ever, no information in it, you can just skip it

    dunno why it doesn´t show this quote: just said yesterday that i dont have to help any of you with anything especially since i don't want competition so i dont know why you're stating the obvious as some kind of proof that recover is better than flash. but i am a helpful person by nature, especially on things where i know that i know what im talking about
    the bolded part is really funny and absolutely correct, that´s exactly why it´s funny...it still bothers me because we don´t know if you lose 3 times and get back before you post a 994* and claim to be the best, saying it was a breeze

    sorry that I want to be competitive after getting #1 because I know something big´s coming and not knowing when and how heavy the impact will be is annoying...at this point I only care about your streak as you are my (and should be everyone´s) top rival in the tower

    losing is never fun, but warstories are fun...also I learned from my mistakes I think so I don´t consider it a total waste

    I don´t see how me telling people when recover saves me helps anyone...people should use what fits them and their teams

    I don´t think about flash vs recover, I´m giving this team a chance to get another good streak. If flash is better than recover in every situation then I will use it, but I´m not sure it is, so I stick with what I have and am used to


    the thing with kingler is a misunderstanding...basically none of the two helps me handle kingler better than the other or overall

    first you state you don´t want any competition or "help" the competition but then you tell everyone everything (?)

    helping is one thing, but where´s the competitiveness of the most freaking competitive forum in that you hand out every random person on a silver plate the most effective tactics along with the best movesets, EV spreads AND tactics (even a list of threats for that particular lead and how exactly to handle them)

    EDIT: deleted (most of) the emotional stuff that followed...


    GOOD LUCK WITH YOUR STREAK! (this goes for everyone)
  8. kingbattlus

    kingbattlus

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    ahh i've started a battle of witts between the two brightest people on smogon in this thread, possibly in general lol

    TRE got a high streak using a gengar similar to what I'm using for my speed streak (the team I use to get to 49 before I start using a more strategized team). I'm wondering how far my streak could reach using that speed team, as I regularly cruise through without any problems... I'll post it once I give up on trick teams, which I admit I'll be losing mostly due to lack of experience, and see what you champs think.
  9. Bozo

    Bozo

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    actually RNG abuse can get you shiny flawless pokes quite quickly. you can do it all without any kind of hacking device whatsoever - just look around the smogon forums and you'll find it. threads started by mingot are a good place to start.

    no, dont give up! its actually a lot more challenging than the regular battle tower since the opponents pokes are usually trained more effectively, have better movesets, and even have PP max's so that even stalling out destiny bond takes a long time.

    keep in mind that the pokemon you face in the battle tower have perfect IVs (for the most part). the only difference is the hidden power aspect, in terms of the pokemon reaching their best potential in terms of perfection.
  10. Glen

    Glen
    is a Forum Moderator Alumnus

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    the ohko walrein is unbelievably infuriating. i swear the computer has perfect luck. im at match 31 in the factory, ive got electrode/heatran/gengar. a really good team, the electrode is the mirror coat/explosion@focus sash one which is excellent at killing 2 mons.

    so i open with trode and face a walrein. i tbolt. tbolt misses. fissure hits, i survive with sash. im shaken, but i go for the explosion just to deal with it. explosion misses. wonderful.

    in comes gengar. gengar tbolts, walrein survives and i get ohkod by sheer cold. in comes heatran to save the day! nope, heat wave misses and i die to fissure.

    why the fuck does that pokemon exist, seriously? like i can understand a game being hard and challenging but this shit isnt challenging, its just absurd. i was mad when i thought it was brightpowder, then i realized it was lax insence, a mere 5% evasion boost, and i was seething.
  11. Bozo

    Bozo

    Joined:
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    tell me about it.... i think we all have stories like that. my most recent was this morning, when an opposing cresselia had used double team one time, meaning of course that my next 7 toxic's missed. and then theres the good 'ol quick claw + OHKO activation.
  12. ungulateman

    ungulateman

    Joined:
    Apr 11, 2009
    Messages:
    1,121
    My Battle Fagtory problems seem to be related to my opponent getting a great pokemon, and I trade one of my good pokemon away for one which is completely useless, despite looking effective at first glance. Seriously, a parafusing Honchkrow? REALLY?
  13. Jumpman16

    Jumpman16 np: Michael Jackson - "Mon in the Mirror" (DW mix)
    is a Smogon IRC SOPis a Pokemon Researcheris a Contributor to Smogonis an Administratoris a Site Staff Alumnusis a Team Rater Alumnusis a Battle Server Admin Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnus

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    it doesnt make a difference either way, you literally cannot stop me from doing things in the tower or know how easy/hard it was for me regardless, just like we don't really know that the first time you broke 100 with a trick team after 3+ losses before 100 you also broke 200, and 300, and 400, and 500, and 600, and almost 700. does it matter either way?

    you should only care about not losing yourself as i said weeks ago, you can't do anything about my efforts anyway (besides some roundabout delay in my efforts since im posting here now)

    there's nothing interesting to warstory about losing to pokemon when making a relatively elementary mistake that has bene made by several others before you and posted about

    how should they know? most people here who are trying a trick team are doing it for the first time, you were the same a few months ago. and by the same token how do you really know that using recover is better than the proven flash? you dont...and before you think i'm attacking you again for using a "worse" move i will remind you that the reason i am asking is on behalf of everyone else because you used recover for almost 650 battles in a row effectively and you seriously must have some examples of where it considerably helped you by now

    again this isn't about you, this is about helping others who would like to know why recover is 696-wins good. if you don't really pay attention or just kind of prefer it that's one thing but at least you could be fairly asked to give examples of it

    i could ask you where the competitiveness is in asking me, your "#1 rival", repeatedly on AIM what you should do in sticky situations like brightpowder nidoking. i could also ask you why you asked if your #1 rival wanted help after a lead infernape faked out then uturned with cress's scarf, leaving her to get CHed to death by the PARed but unlocked blaziken's flare blitz the next turn, or why you were surprised that i refused.

    if handing out a silver platter of tactics was the only way to flirt with a streak of 500+ then we'd have more than two people who have done it in over two years, especially given the literal tens of thousands of words i personally have posted about trick teams. the fact of the matter is that no matter what i post or tell anyone, i truly believe, through my own experiences, that not only am i the best but i am also using the best team, and those both matter more than anything else. that mentality is part of being a competitor. you're the only person with a streak higher than my best in either tower (though DP poses separate challenges). don't you think this would be different if my posts were all you needed to win 500 battles in a row?

    i was gonna use cool spoiler tags too but there's no point really
  14. kingbattlus

    kingbattlus

    Joined:
    Aug 24, 2006
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    1,481
    ridiculous hax is absolutley infuriating. i misclicked first turn with latias, flash, on flareon. no big deal, I flashed it down a few times as it missed iron tail after iron tail, swapped to lucario, back in to latias and tricked it into iron tail again. flashed it down to -6 accuracy, set up reflect and swap in tyranitar to start DDing. i sub, iron tail hits. what the fuck. sub again, it misses. he manages to break my sub FIVE TIMES WITH A 70 ACCURACY MOVE THAT HAS BEEN FLASHED SIX TIMES.

    What the fuck is that?!?!? Didn't cost me the match, but seriously someone calc those odds because it's bull shit.

    The next battle, however, screwed me... I don't know what to do in these situations and I simply think it's a shortcoming of the team and my lack of experience.

    The team has no way to handle things that hit hard physically. Two Pokemon that have ended streaks for me have been Staraptor and Heracross, and both of them appeared in battle 58. How does this team beat that?

    First turn what is the move? I paralyzed Staraptor, choosing not to trick and leave me with Lucario and Tyranitar lower than it. I swapped in Tyranitar and stalled with Protect and Sub and killed it with Crunch. In comes Heracross the fucker and I die to a Megahorn. Back to Latias, Thunder Wave again to be safe and die to Shadow Claw. Lucario takes a Megahorn, Calm Mind. Next turn I sub, it breaks, Sub, it breaks, Aura Sphere praying crit, fuck me.

    The team simply can't sponge physical hits. I could've went haxy and tried to Flash Staraptor, but Brave Bird has 100% and I'd only survive through one. Megahorn would've been easier but it wasn't tricked into Megahorn and thus used Shadow Claw on Latias (it was at low health so had I been healthy it may have used Megahorn). Reflect is an option but much good would it have done? Probably not much since first turn it hits Latias and the rest are spent trying to stall with Tyranitar which wouldn't have gotten far.

    Back to the drawing board. I two things out of my next trick group: the first is something with Swords Dance/Nasty Plot, and the second is a balanced physical/special defensive resist team. I know it can't cover everything, but I'm sure I can come up with something. Dragon Dance and Calm Mind are very slow to get set up, and I can't even imagine trying to set up with Registeel like Peterko did with all the resting and Amnesia and Curse... yikes.
  15. Peterko

    Peterko Never give up!
    is a Researcher Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus

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    not in the state to understand what you posted, sorry jump

    does the last part mean that mean you still haven´t broken 696? ehm


    random notes of today´s 63 battles:
    - I met too many PIs, I face them way too many times for a supposed 1/25 probability
    - almost lost to set4 groupA trainer, set up steel but 2nd poké was mamo (thought it was the LO one so I didn´t sub first...don´t want to check) which broke sub and died, 3rd poké pinsir hit with guillotine...stuck with a 1on1 because of letting latias die to some ice puncher, maybe cham (don´t remember and too tired to check sets) when I normally just switch out (this is a special case of me doing mistakes I don´t do in this streak)...yeah back to chomp vs pinsir - outrage 2hkos and I don´t know if I should risk the guillotine as 2/2 would suck badly, decided to lure the guillotine on a sub but pisnir used ccombat which was really surprising and then I just said fuck it you better x-scissor now or something and outraged for 98% and he missed the guillotine
    - also scarf ttar ice punch froze steel and it didn´t thaw out for 11-12 turns and my mistake was not counting the PP so I switched in chomp on the second struggle which promptly CHed and then I set up a sub and SD but he was faster with the last one and I had only 40 HP (need 46 to make a sub) so I swords dance knowing he would break my sub...dragon tamer and latias came in (it has to be said that I didn´t feel comfortable knowing that steel was fucked up by being frozen and CHed a couple of time and I used sub to lose even more HP on the 1st struggle turn haha...EDIT: seriously reading how I messed up in these two makes me sad - I better not play anymore when I feel like throwing up from playing and then do like 21 more lol)...anyway, wasn´t the one faster latias and got outraged to hell as well as the third poké which I don´t remember
    - other than that, faced some outrage dragonites (two), also yanmega (set4 and set1, speed boost and tinted respectively)...don´t remember much else

    good luck dude, I mean specifically you, jump

    EDIT: kingb you´re supposed to charm both hera and staraptor with latias TURN 1...I have no clue how to approach it with a reflect tricklead though (don´t want to use my brain anymore today)
  16. Bozo

    Bozo

    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2008
    Messages:
    2,837
    OK, well first things first, I've gone past Fatum's streak of 251 in the battle castle. I didn't save the 252nd battle since I had a saved battle I didnt want to wipe, but I recorded battles 246-252 and have uploaded them to youtube - check it out :naughty:

    Here is where I am up to now:

    [​IMG]

    It is also where I will be staying for the time being. It's unbeaten, but I don't see myself extending it for a while. I think I might give the battle tower a go since I want to try out a Soul Silver suicune I got in a trade.



    Anyway, my team is almost identical to the one I posted earlier, apart from rebreeding my old salamence and blissey to get shiny ones. I also moved the spare 6 EVs from HP to Sp Def on salamence because, with equal defenses, download pory got sp atk boosts when it switched in to salamence, which was annoying - now it gets useless atk boosts no matter who it switches in to. So, here they are:


    [​IMG]
    Salamence - AXL (shiny)
    Jolly - Intimidate - Male
    IVs: 31 / 31 / 31 / 24 / 31 / 31
    EVs: 252 Attack / 252 Speed / 6 Sp Def
    Item: Choice Band
    Moves: Outrage, Earthquake, Aerial Ace, Rock Slide

    [​IMG]
    Milotic - AL (dive ball)
    Bold - Marvel Scale - Male
    IVs: 31 / 14 / 30 / 30 / 30 / 31
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 Defence / 6 Speed
    Item: Leftovers
    Moves: Surf, Ice Beam, Toxic, Recover

    [​IMG]
    Blissey - ANGEL (shiny)
    Bold - Natural Cure - Female
    IVs: 31 / 4 / 31 / 31 / 31 / 31
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 Defence / 6 Speed
    Item: Leftovers
    Moves: Seismic Toss, Flamethrower, Softboiled, Aromatherapy


    I didn't breed a shiny milotic, because Al is already such a beast. It has 56 ribbons, and was caught in my original Emerald game, so there's no way I'm going to swap him out.

    Anyway, I've mentioned the strategy before, and it can be pretty much deduced by watching the video. But a few basic things:

    1. Before EVERY battle I identify every one of the opponent's pokemon, and generally check their summary. Then I compare it to the moveset list - only in very rare occasions will I need to pay to check the moves as well, if there is more than one of a certain pokemon with the same stats and item, which poses different kinds of threats to my team. For example, jolly focus sash houndoom - one has counter (I use milotic to deal with it), the other has reversal (salamence takes care of this one, although it nearly screwed me over big time in the youtube video because of paralysis on thunder fang).

    2. OHKO users are promptly sent down to level 45 so they don't pose a threat. These guys are the primary source of problems to teams like this in the battle tower.

    3. Anything I know for certain can be handled at level 55 is leveled up to get me more castle points. Probably not much point detailing how I decide this. Hmmm I wonder if blissey can handle that modest bastiodon, or if salamence can OHKO that sash'less lead heracross.......

    4. Toxic on milotic is very useful for killing bulky pokes (milotic and blissey can stall/switch/whatever while the foe slowly dies). It is also crucial for dealing with some salac/reversal pokes - hit it with toxic, and then KO with salamence without fear - even though salamence resists reversal, it is not worth risking a possible crit, and then seeing the rest of my team destroyed. Even activating guts on heracross is usually worth it (sacrificing milotic or blissey to get salamence in safely). Also deals with focus sash/band to an extent as well. It has to be said that occasionally getting poison synchronized from an umbreon has helped milotic later when facing a powerful sweeper.

    5. Blissey and milotic try and heal themselves towards the end of the battle so there is minimal cost in healing my teams between battles. Toxic really helps with this, as they are often slower, and can recover/softboil after taking the last hit, just before the opponent finally succumbs to the poison. Roost would be an interesting option on salamence for this reason, although it obviously doesn't go well with choice band (lol), and I don't want to lose the power by switching to leftovers.

    6. In most battles, salamence is just there for intimidate (I've never once had to restore his PP), but he occasionally does get to rip through a team just using outrage.

    7. Finally, possibly the most important thing. NEVER be a scrouge with castle points. Lower the opponent's level if you feel you must. In extreme situations I even passed a few battles (probably about 3-4 in my streak so far). It sucks, and you lose LOTS of points (50 plus the points you don't get for winning the battle), but it's better than losing and dreaming of all the points you saved. The last one I remember passing had I think that focus sash exploding electrode, another bulky exploder with a quick claw (golem or claydol?) and some kind of bulky normal sweeper. It's just not worth risking it.


    I also uploaded another battle to youtube this morning. Apart from being the 300th in my streak, it also featured the first shiny pokemon I've ever seen in an opponent's team in a 4th gen battle tower/frontier. (Saw a couple in the emerald BF, but didn't even know it was possible in 4th gen games.) Check him out:

    [​IMG]

    I would have been soooooo mad if rng-abuse didnt mean i already had one.
  17. kingbattlus

    kingbattlus

    Joined:
    Aug 24, 2006
    Messages:
    1,481
    Ok after spending some time on the drawing board, I've decided to go a new route with my trick team... the fact that everytime I make it to the part where I can start using trick and I've only made it as far as 58 (user errors twice, nothing to do the most recent time since), it clearly has an issue with Heracross and Staraptor

    Here are my new thoughts, looking for help with a couple things so you saavy experts let me know why this will fail, or that it might work with some tweaks.

    The Lead:

    Uxie @ Choice Scarf
    Bold - 252 HP / 110 DEF / 148 SPD
    Levitate
    -Trick
    -Thunder Wave
    -Flash
    -Memento

    *In the brief time I used Latias with Flash, I found it to be very helpful, but also wished I still had Recover on there to stall out a bit more. Regardless, it helped me set up stuff easier which was nice. I think that I'll stick with Flash for now. Memento is the real selling point of this beast though. With the given EVs, Uxie gets to 134 speed, outspeed everything but Electrode, Scarf Linoone and Scarf Porygon-Z (as stated by Garo in his impressive streak with the same spread but worse IVs). The max HP and 110 in Def means Staraptor can muster 51% tops, meaning I can Trick, Thunder Wave and Memento nearly every time. It has to roll random 99-100 damage twice in a row to 2HKO when Adamant, max Attack and holding Muscle Band. Choice Band 2HKOs handily. Best bet is to bank on it being Staraptor 1-3, and if you know by the trainer that it's set 4, Memento first.

    Sweeping Monster Number One:

    Inferanpe @ Wise Glasses
    Modest - 6 HP / 252 SP ATK / 252 SPD
    (Is this ideal? Is there a different spread for Subs/Blaze that would work better)
    Blaze
    -Substitute
    -Nasty Plot
    -Flamethrower
    -Vacuum Wave

    *This thing just rapes. Against Staraptor, even with a Memento down though, Inferanpe gets KOed by even the Muscle Band variant all of the time. So the next Pokemon had to be something that could take on Staraptor consistenly. Ok back to Inferanpe, this thing kills shit. If by chance you come in without a scratch, Infernape can Sub down to Blaze range and OHKO with Flamethrower without even needing to Nasty Plot, and that's even if it happens to be Calm or Careful or something that boosts Special Defense. As Jumpman pointed out a few pages ago, Infernape with three Nasty Plots can OHKO Blissey 82% of the time with a Blaze activated Flamethrower. Not Fire Blast, Flamethrower. Monstrous. You will OHKO Thick Fat max HP +Special Defense Snorlax with Vacuum Wave 30% of the time, can can easily 2HKO with either move every time. Everything below these two in terms of special defense is slaughtered.

    Final Team Member:
    For this I'm still waivering between two; Empoleon and Scizor. Empoleon offers the resists this team needs, in particular against Flying types, but also against Ghost and Water (the three types that are left unchecked by Infernape and Uxie). It can Sub, Torrent, Swords Dance and Aqua Jet, giving it some unexpected physical power. It can also utilize Drill Peck or Return to give it great coverage, but without the same damaging effects that Flamethrower complements Vacuum Wave with for Infernape.
    Scizor needs no real explanation as many users have gotten ridiculous streaks with it wielding Bullet Punch/Superpower or Bullet Punch alone.

    I'm torn between the two, and have been itching to use Scizor, but...

    Adamant CB Staraptor against Scizor - 103% min... ouch.
    Adamant CB Staraptor against Empoleon - 46-55%, not as ouch.

    Adamant CB Staraptor against Empoleon after Memento - 23-27%... what a great number here. That's worst case scenario. Meaning I could, though I don't want to, Memento all Staraptor and know that I can set up Empoleon relatively well. Staraptor will never use Close Combat agaisnt Uxie, so that's a non-issue and Choice Band is the only variant that knows the move, so it's guaranteed that I'll never face a Close Combat from Staraptor.

    But overall Scizor can OHKO things much quicker and more effeciently. It also means that all my Electric types are faced by Inferanpe, which is a bit of a daunting thought. Scizor isn't much better, but in reality it is.

    There is a third member that I've contemplated in the omnipresent Garchomp, who can sap up electric attacks easily, but this puts the pressure on Inferanpe to take Ice attacks then, which is probably just as bad. Garchomp can use a Yache Berry--though claimed to be inferior various times--and set up once and OHKO almost every Ice user with Outrage.

    So Smogon, help me out a bit here. Which direction should I try first? Scizor, Empoleon, or Garchomp? Or just toss the shit out the window now and find a new hobby? lol
  18. DrDimentio

    DrDimentio

    Joined:
    Aug 29, 2009
    Messages:
    173
    My question is - how will your team deal with Slowbro/King? I'm guessing Infernape would easily 2HKO both with boosted attacks, but I'm mentioning them not only for their typing troubling Infernape, but for the Trick Room users. If either of those, or any other Trick Room user gets to go first, they can KO with Psychic moves before you can execute your plan... therefore, your undecided third member should probably be designed to deal with Psychics such as these.
  19. DrDimentio

    DrDimentio

    Joined:
    Aug 29, 2009
    Messages:
    173
    I'm suddenly inspired to continue my streak and maybe see a shiny... I didn't even know it was possible in the 4th gen. Two shiny dragons in one picture = epic.
  20. kingbattlus

    kingbattlus

    Joined:
    Aug 24, 2006
    Messages:
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    Duely noted. I think Zapdos might be an interesting option for me to consider. Firstly, it can take on Slowbro and Slowking. Secondly, it can recover with Roost and PP-stall things, which is always helpful. Thirdly, it can take a Brave Bird from Staraptor (and take a Megahorn from Heracross) and OHKO back with Thunderbolt (2HKO with Heat Wave). If I'm not mistaken, Vaccum Wave should bypass Trick Room, and as long as I'm not dealing with Slowking1 and it's not Calm, I can deal with it using Infernape, too.

    For Garchomp, the set should be...?
    Substitute / Swords Dance / Outrage / Earthquake @ ...? Yache or Lum?

    and for Zapdos, I was contemplating a couple sets.

    Substitute / Thunderbolt / Heat Wave / Roost

    Substitute / Thunderbolt / Toxic / Roost

    Thunderbolt / Light Screen / Heat Wave / Roost

    All Calm, 252 HP / 220 SP DEF / 36 SPD; This outpaces max speed +nature Tyranitar, allows me to Sub four times, and gives me maximum special defense absorption. The Third set is susecptible to critial hits and quick claw, but Light Screen support seems so tasty as Zapdos sponges a ton even without it. The second set is good because pressure-stalling with Zapdos seems like it can beat a lot of trouble pokes, and the first is the most overall general utility I can beat lots of shit set (and it does 2HKO that same trouble Slowking even with no EV investment and Calm set 1).

    Thanks for the advice Lleweyn and Dr Dimiento. Does my Zapdos idea seem viable?
  21. Jumpman16

    Jumpman16 np: Michael Jackson - "Mon in the Mirror" (DW mix)
    is a Smogon IRC SOPis a Pokemon Researcheris a Contributor to Smogonis an Administratoris a Site Staff Alumnusis a Team Rater Alumnusis a Battle Server Admin Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnus

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    i think you guys are underestimating infernape:

    513 Atk vs 151 Def & 191 HP (156 Base Power): 149 - 176 (78.01% - 92.15%)

    that is +4 wise glasses blaze on the most specially defensive slowbro/king there is in the tower. and it just so happens that this slowking has trick room, which while i don't expect it would use it as a second or third poke, would mean that it would then take this much damage from vacuum wave:

    513 Atk vs 151 Def & 191 HP (44 Base Power): 42 - 50 (21.99% - 26.18%)

    which will always kill the 191 HP skowking. and again, this is at +4. i don't anticipate that infernape will always be able to get into blaze range, (+4 Blaze is slightly stronger than +6 no blaze), but it will probably usually be able to either get +6 and a sub at 45-75%, or at least +4 at 1-33% and very likely subbed.


    edit: again, as i said on the last page, there's literally like eight single pokemon (of the ~670 you'll see after battle 49) that can survive a +6 WG Blaze Modest FT. it's so powerful that a Lv50 ape would even always kill a Lv100 min/min Electivire. calc it if you dont believe me
  22. Bozo

    Bozo

    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2008
    Messages:
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    yes, actually two shiny green dragons that both should have been blue!

    and it seems you and i are the only people in this thread that cares about the battle castle :(



    EDIT: also going to throw this out there. RAIKOU as a member of a trick based team - would work nicely with cresselia/uxie specifically, since it will generally never be attacked by ground moves. in my brief experiment with CSL, i was always frustrated that latios' ability never came into it. pressure might help also, to get the opponent down to struggle, but then again it could also be a liability in some situations. with HG/SS out, there are a few RNG'd flawless hp ice/grass ones out there, and thats all you'd really need, along with thunderbolt, calm mind, and sub. it has the speed to do it.....
  23. Chinese Dood

    Chinese Dood

    Joined:
    Aug 15, 2008
    Messages:
    1,072
    Hey I care about Battle Castle too! I've just been too busy with school lately (I pretty much play only when I'm on the bus/train on the way to/from school/work), and I've been playing mostly Double Battle Castle/Tower.

    I may go back to Single Battle Castle soon enough though as I may require a lot of battle points in the near future and Double is overall too slow for that. I just always get too greedy in Castle trying to save up instead of spending the necessary castle points.

    ... Actually, in fact, I think I have a bit of free time today (seeing how I'm posting). I'll try to think of something and start a Single castle streak to see where I get.
  24. Glen

    Glen
    is a Forum Moderator Alumnus

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    Jan 7, 2006
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    6,572
    got my factory streak up to 37, still quite far from gold. urgh. i think its pretty bad that i have like 700 battle points and all ive done is played factory... anyway i lost to the double team/iron defense/iron head/what the fuck ever registeel.

    ive learned a couple cool things though. first and foremost, tangrowth or venusaur or ludicolo with leech seed are very likely to sweep all 21 of the opposing pokemon without ever dying. double team is even more overpowered than i thought, and big root is an amazing item. (though ludicolo gets leftovers but lol who would complain about that) i got the double team/leech seed/toxic/giga drain @ big root tangrowth, and i remember thinking 'oh cool i got bulk up poliwrath too maybe i can leech seed and set him up' but then tangrowth just stayed in and i kinda forgot my other two pokemon even existed. he survived an opposing magmortar's flare blitz with like 40 or 50 hp to spare. bulkygrowth.

    second the porygon-z with scarf/trick is one of the best mons in there, even if you dont get a stat-up mon alongside it. with a stat-up mon just go for a trick immediately and chances are the mon can get to +6 whatever and ruin their entire team. if youre lacking a statupmon and youve got adaptability or a spatk download just sweep with a fast burly tri attack, it destroys almost everything anyways. also jumpman how do you feel about the idea of the trickscarf -> statup strategy? i call it glenscarfing you should try it on your battle tower team maybe youll do pretty good!!

    also the factory is riddled with random mons that are extremely good compared to most OUs. jump knows all about how good the coverage sp sweeper nidoking is, but a few others off the top of my head are the flare blitz rapidash, bulk up poliwrath, brine/yawn/trick room/psychic slowking (aka the brinestone cowboy), the calm mind/yawn/surf/psychic slowbro (likely to 3-0 every team that doesn open with a sp sweeper using a neutral/se move) and the dbond/coverage frosslass or mismagius (both almost always kill 2 mons).

    conversely a lot of mons who you think would do well really don't, even if their sets are good. i usually find salamence a liability because unless its the dancer he often falls short of ohkoing much and the most random shit will ohko him with ice moves. 4x weakness mons in general are very risky because nine times out of ten you cannot risk a switch out. the only good tyranitar is the dancer (and even then hes not all that hot), the only good salamence is the dancer, and the only good dragonite is the cb one (the dancer is garbage because it takes like 3 dances to outspeed anything). only good garchomp is the eq/dclaw one (though the lol special one is kinda useful, hes just a slightly better version of the special flygon).

    also usually if you have infernape or lucario, you will win most matches with just them regardless of what sets they have. they are the most reliable mons when you average all 4 of their sets imo. mamoswine comes close too because he always has that devastating stab eq (and sometimes he has peck to beat those pesky heracross!!)

    anyway after losing to it a couple times over the last few days i am still thoroughly convinced that the thunder wave/confuse ray regigigas is the most threatening pokemon in the battle factory.
  25. kingbattlus

    kingbattlus

    Joined:
    Aug 24, 2006
    Messages:
    1,481
    well i lost pre-49 for the first time in a while today... it was kinda disappointing.

    porygon 2 off against my gengar, not sure what the best play here really is. i thunderbolt, assuming it won't be something that will physically assault me. it does moderate damage, then comes out the Trick Room.

    Still not concerned, should be able to kill him off and Destiny Bond the next poke. Unless I'm frozen solid of course. I thaw out and get one more hit in before he kills me off. If I had Destiny Bonded I may have been in better shape here.

    Metagross comes out and finishes him off, but not before taking a Tri Attack to the face that paralyzes it. Wonderrful. Machamp comes in, I explode somehow knowing that it has Earthquake and I can't survive two. I survive with about 40 HP left and boom, killing Machamp.

    Garchomp in to save the day, but wait, no, it's Walrein. I Swords Dance hoping my Yache will save me, but even an Ice Beam from this walrus is enough to OHKO through the berry and everything. GG me.

    A destiny bond to drop P2 and leave me with full health Metagross to MM/BP Machamp and then Explode on Walrein would've probably been the path to victory.

    I did have a match earlier that was a close call also, and involved my last poke Metagross hitting a Meteor Mash through +6 Double Teamed Shiftry that had just used Swagger on me to make sure my attack would be high enough to OHKO it lol Garchomp landed an Outrage but wasn't enough to kill and missed the rest of the match, dieing to the Leech Seed. It seems the Swagger was necessary.

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