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Pokemon RBY In-Game Tiers - Mark III
- Thread starter atsync
- Start date
- Status
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:evan:
I'm the one who brought Yellow Machamp up...and I'm the one who said RB Koga was swept by him...I just don't see Hitmonlee being too much better than Machamp.
Sabrina's Alakazam in Yellow has Psychic, not too mention its at Level 50. I agree that Zam shouldn't have a problem with R&B Sabrina.
Ok, so getting back to what I wanted to talk about. Here's what I made for the new match ups:
-Brock
-Rival (Nugget Bridge)
-Misty
-Rival (S.S Anne)
-LT Surge
-Rival (Pokemon Tower)
-Erika
-Koga
-Rival (Silph Co)
-Sabrina
-Blaine
-Giovanni
-Rival (Pre-Victory Road)
-Lorelei
-Bruno
-Agatha
-Lance
-Rival
I skipped the first two battle because the first is only the starter Pokemon, and the second is optional. The Pokemon Tower battle can be done before Erika, but I like the pattern I have going on here (Rival shows up after every gym, then it becomes after 2 gyms, then it becomes after 3 gyms).
Thoughts on this?
One more question for atsync, did you want to add the Giovanni battles? He's a joke, but he is a boss character....
-Brock
-Rival (Nugget Bridge)
-Misty
-Rival (S.S Anne)
-LT Surge
-Rival (Pokemon Tower)
-Erika
-Koga
-Rival (Silph Co)
-Sabrina
-Blaine
-Giovanni
-Rival (Pre-Victory Road)
-Lorelei
-Bruno
-Agatha
-Lance
-Rival
I skipped the first two battle because the first is only the starter Pokemon, and the second is optional. The Pokemon Tower battle can be done before Erika, but I like the pattern I have going on here (Rival shows up after every gym, then it becomes after 2 gyms, then it becomes after 3 gyms).
Thoughts on this?
One more question for atsync, did you want to add the Giovanni battles? He's a joke, but he is a boss character....
Currently, I'm going through pokemon Yellow again (and recording the gym battles) to show Hitmonlee's worth, because I'm sick of arguing about it and I'm going to prove it's worth. I can rebutt the arguments against it all day, but essentially it will just be a big waste of time. While I'm here though, I'm going to be play-testing Clefairy/Clefable as well, to see if it is worthy of Top tier. Right now, it has been doing well within the various routes (I gave water gun to Nidoqueen, so it can't touch Rock-types until after Misty). Anything that doesn't resist Mega Punch goes down in 1-2 hits and it levels up really quickly. That being said, it's failed to sweep Misty twice, although maybe I should have taught it Thunder Wave.
I'm inclined to say no.Hemp Man said:
Also, the idea of doing Pokemon Tower before Celadon City is a bit weird to me. I have no idea how others play the game, but I'd rather have Pokemon Tower Rival after Erika.
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Time's up. Both sides of the Hitmonlee argument are going to stick to their guns no matter what people say or what playtests are done, so I think I should just call it now.
Charmander (Y) – High
Clefairy – Top
Doduo – High
Farfetch'd (RB) – High
Gastly – High
Hitmonlee – Mid
Overall this round of analyses has lead to discussion that has been more volatile than the last rounds. From this, I have tried to make decisions that will cater to as many people's preferences as possible. I have considered both the arguments and the general popularity of each point of view.
Yellow Charmander and Doduo were the easiest to decide since no-one has objected to their placements. Users have also expressed interest in merging Charmander's RB and Y analyses. I'll delete my Yellow analysis and will add Hemp Man's updated analysis when he adds the stuff I brought up before.
I think putting Clefairy in Top is the right decision. I'm satisfied that there is enough support for it, and no-one has given a single reason why it shouldn't be. In the end, we have decided that early route Pokemon with good stats and high TM compatibility, and that evolve very quickly, are good Pokemon in this game, and if both Nidorans are in Top then Clefairy has to be there too.
Lots of people were vocal about Gastly after I originally said that it was on track to go Mid, based on the comments made up to that point. I am happy that this has enough support to stay in High, despite the TM dependency. I don't have much else to say about it.
Hitmonlee has apparently been a controversial Pokemon based on the arguments going on here. I want to say right now that I'm a bit disappointed in how this debate has gone down. Both sides of the argument have had unnecessary instances of subtle condescending comments and/or hyperbole. Some of the specific arguments, I feel, are also pretty pointless to the function of Hitmonlee. I'm not going to name names here because I don't want to start an off-topic conflict, but that's just how I feel and I hope to see less of it in the future.
Regarding Hitmonlee's tiering, I maintain that I was on the fence about Mid vs. High when I used it recently and to be honest I don't care where it ends up because both outcomes are acceptable in my eyes, but in the end this is the community's tier list. I have to cater to the community and I feel that there is just way too much opposition to this being in High for it to stay there. We've had 5 users state Mid vs. 2 High, and one of those champions for High has pretty much said that they "wouldn't put up a terrible fuss if he gets booted". Hitmonlee is dropping to Mid. Sorry Garud.
Farfetch'd was the hardest to decide because it is difficult to find any hint of consensus about it. Some have said High and some have said Mid. I saw a glimmer of hope when Chou said he would be fine with High if more emphasis was given to Cut + Fly, which I think would be a good compromise, but then there are disagreements regarding the merit of that niche too...
I think that leaving it in High is the best way I can deal with this. As I said before, I'm more inclined to leave things where they are in situations where consensus can't be reached. Regarding Cut + Fly, although I agree with Mekkah that we shouldn't hype this up too much, I don't see the harm in expanding the point a bit more beyond 1 sentence. It's a very, VERY small niche and I agree that it most definitely shouldn't be the main focus of the analysis (I don't think that people should use Farfetch'd just for the HM combination), but it wouldn't hurt to have a bit more information on it, and if that's what's required to convince a certain group of people that it's High (clearly some people place a lot of value on Cut + Fly) then so be it.
That's the way I see everything. I know that some people aren't going to be happy with some of the decisions I've made. I hope that these people will understand that I can't please everyone, and will handle this with a bit of maturity. If you have anything to say about it I'd prefer if you PMed me, because I don't want to use this thread as a "complain about the decisions atsync made" thread. Likewise, if you want to keep debating about Hitmonlee or whoever, don't do it here. It may sound dumb to tell you not to discuss the tiering of these Pokemon in the TIERING thread, but I really want to focus on different Pokemon now. I don't think any further discussion about these Pokemon is going to go anywhere.
Clefairy
- Changed tier, may need revamp
- Perhaps mention perks over the Nidorans
- Change match-ups to list form like the other analyses
- Cut + Fly should be emphasised a bit more in the movepool section. Don't go overboard; it should NOT be the focus of the analysis. Just mention that Farfetch'd is the only Pokemon in RB with this combo, and that using it for this purpose can save you a small amount of time catching an extra HM slave.
- Remove comment about Selfdestruct/Explosion in the type section.
- Remove Saffron Rockets from match-ups
- Discuss easy grinding against the Pokemon in the Fighting Dojo, who simply can't touch Gastly thanks to its immunities.
- Changed tier, may need revamp.
- The Venonats used by Koga have Psychic, so saying that they are setup bait is a bit of an exaggeration.
- Yellow Blaine leads with a Ninetales with Flamethrower. Setting up is riskier than in RB and this needs to be mentioned.
- Lorelei's Slowbro is only a significant threat in Yellow. Slowbro's only attacking move in RB is Water Gun so it isn't that dangerous. Bad AI will likely mean that this isn't going to be a problem anyway.
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Let's move on to the next group of Pokemon.
Just like before, you should be answering these questions:
- Is this Pokemon in the right tier? If you disagree, say which tier you think it should be moved to. You'll need to give reasons of course.
- Does the entry written for the Pokemon cover everything that needs to be covered? The whole point of the entries is to provide a convincing case for the Pokemon being in the tier they are in. Therefore, we need to make sure the entries cover why a Pokemon is good or bad. If you think something important is missing, speak up and we can add this information. Likewise, if you think an entry contains information that isn't particularly relevant, say so and we can remove the fluff.
The Pokemon up this time will be:
- Jolteon
-Jolteon - High Tier
-Availability: Jolteon is given to you as a level 25 Eevee in Celadon City. It evolves to Jolteon through use of a Thunderstone, which happen to be for sale in Celadon Department Store.
-Stats: With base 110 Special, Jolteon's attacks pack quite a punch against anything that don't resist them, while base 130 Speed ensures that it outpaces everything, with very few exceptions. Its physical isn't the best in the world, but it usually won't matter in most situations as most physical attackers (barring Ground-types, of course) don't have the bulk to take a Thunderbolt.
-Movepool: Jolteon's movepool basically consists of Thundershock, Thunderbolt, and filler such as Pin Missile. Thunderbolt is the attack Jolteon should be using in most situations, and it's very close to being necessary for Jolteon to do well. Thundershock allows it to take care of the Pokemon weak to Thunderbolt (which happen to be quite common after dealing with the Snorlax on Route 12) without wasting too much PP, but keep in mind it can't learn Thundershock in Yellow. Of all of Jolteon's remaining moves, the one with the most potential would be Pin Missile. It is learned at level 36 in Yellow and hits Psychic-types super effectively, but don't be surprised if they survive due to Jolteon's below average Attack. Still, it's likely to be better than Thunderbolt against Psychic-types, but Jolteon can't really use it in Red or Blue due to not learning it until level 48. It also hits every Grass-type not named Tangela or Parasect for 4x effective damage, making it very useful against them, but Grass-types are uncommon after Celadon Gym. While Double Kick is a Fighting-type move, it fails to do significant damage to Rock-types, making it almost completely useless. Another possible move Jolteon might make use of is Thunder Wave, as it can paralyze speedy Pokemon for a slow teammate to crush or set up on, but it has very little use otherwise, as the best thing to do in most other situations is to just attack.
-Power: The only things that can reliably take Jolteon's Thunderbolt are either Ground- or Grass-types, and Jolteon doesn't even need Thunderbolt for Flying- or Water-types, as Thundershock will usually get the job done against them. Notable exceptions to the above are Lapras and Slowbro.
-Type: Electric-type moves have great neutral coverage, only being resisted by Ground-types and Grass-types, both of which are quite uncommon outside of the Viridian and Celadon Gyms, respectively. It also hits Flying-types and Water-types super effectively, both of which are quite common after Pokemon Tower.
-Match-ups:
--Erika: Jolteon can't do much here due to her Pokemon all having both good Special and a resistance to Electric-type moves.
--Koga: Sludge can hurt quite a bit, especially from Muk, the Pokemon on his team most likely to withstand a Thunderbolt. Things are better in Yellow as none of his Pokemon have (threatening) STAB and are generally frailer than in Red and Blue.
--Sabrina: Her Pokemon all have high Special, canceling out Jolteon's impressive Special, but Thunderbolt deals more damage to Kadabra than Recover heals, meaning Jolteon is guaranteed to take down at least 3 of her Pokemon in Red and Blue. Despite being able to learn Pin Missile at that point in Yellow, it actually does worse against her than in Red and Blue, due to all of her Pokemon actually having a Speed advantage against it.
--Blaine: As with RB Sabrina, Jolteon can beat all of his Pokemon minus Arcanine.
--Giovanni: Jolteon can't do much of anything here.
--Lorelei: Jolteon can beat Dewgong, Cloyster, and Slowbro with little trouble. It can also defeat Jynx one-on-one, but Lapras can take a hit and retaliate with either a 120 base power STAB move or with Body Slam/Confuse Ray to inflict status.
--Bruno: His duo of Onix wall Jolteon without hesitation or worry, but his Fighting-types will easily fall to Thunderbolt.
--Agatha: Each of her Ghost-types can take a Thunderbolt, albeit without losing a noticeable chunk of HP, and proceed to status Jolteon; however, should they not, Jolteon can beat them.
--Lance: His Gyarados is fried before you can bat an eye. Aerodactyl is also OHKOed, but it is faster due to its higher level, and Hyper Beam hits like a truck. His other Pokemon can easily take a Thunderbolt and Hyper Beam in return.
--Rival: Regardless of the game, his Water-type will always be beaten. His Grass-type can be taken down with Pin Missile, but don't expect Jolteon to get off scot free. His Charizard, should he have it, is another Pokemon who's defeated without much worry, and the same can be said about Pidgeot. There's no way Jolteon's getting past Rhydon (RB) or Sandslash (Y), and it also has trouble with Alakazam.
-Additional Comments: If you plan on using Jolteon, teaching it Thunderbolt is almost a necessity, as its movepool is quite barren otherwise. This is especially notable in Yellow, as it can't even learn Thundershock in that game. However, if given Thunderbolt, Jolteon will excel and cruise through more than half the time it's in your party, with the only times it does poorly being Celadon and Viridian Gyms.
-Availability: Jolteon is given to you as a level 25 Eevee in Celadon City. It evolves to Jolteon through use of a Thunderstone, which happen to be for sale in Celadon Department Store.
-Stats: With base 110 Special, Jolteon's attacks pack quite a punch against anything that don't resist them, while base 130 Speed ensures that it outpaces everything, with very few exceptions. Its physical isn't the best in the world, but it usually won't matter in most situations as most physical attackers (barring Ground-types, of course) don't have the bulk to take a Thunderbolt.
-Movepool: Jolteon's movepool basically consists of Thundershock, Thunderbolt, and filler such as Pin Missile. Thunderbolt is the attack Jolteon should be using in most situations, and it's very close to being necessary for Jolteon to do well. Thundershock allows it to take care of the Pokemon weak to Thunderbolt (which happen to be quite common after dealing with the Snorlax on Route 12) without wasting too much PP, but keep in mind it can't learn Thundershock in Yellow. Of all of Jolteon's remaining moves, the one with the most potential would be Pin Missile. It is learned at level 36 in Yellow and hits Psychic-types super effectively, but don't be surprised if they survive due to Jolteon's below average Attack. Still, it's likely to be better than Thunderbolt against Psychic-types, but Jolteon can't really use it in Red or Blue due to not learning it until level 48. It also hits every Grass-type not named Tangela or Parasect for 4x effective damage, making it very useful against them, but Grass-types are uncommon after Celadon Gym. While Double Kick is a Fighting-type move, it fails to do significant damage to Rock-types, making it almost completely useless. Another possible move Jolteon might make use of is Thunder Wave, as it can paralyze speedy Pokemon for a slow teammate to crush or set up on, but it has very little use otherwise, as the best thing to do in most other situations is to just attack.
-Power: The only things that can reliably take Jolteon's Thunderbolt are either Ground- or Grass-types, and Jolteon doesn't even need Thunderbolt for Flying- or Water-types, as Thundershock will usually get the job done against them. Notable exceptions to the above are Lapras and Slowbro.
-Type: Electric-type moves have great neutral coverage, only being resisted by Ground-types and Grass-types, both of which are quite uncommon outside of the Viridian and Celadon Gyms, respectively. It also hits Flying-types and Water-types super effectively, both of which are quite common after Pokemon Tower.
-Match-ups:
--Erika: Jolteon can't do much here due to her Pokemon all having both good Special and a resistance to Electric-type moves.
--Koga: Sludge can hurt quite a bit, especially from Muk, the Pokemon on his team most likely to withstand a Thunderbolt. Things are better in Yellow as none of his Pokemon have (threatening) STAB and are generally frailer than in Red and Blue.
--Sabrina: Her Pokemon all have high Special, canceling out Jolteon's impressive Special, but Thunderbolt deals more damage to Kadabra than Recover heals, meaning Jolteon is guaranteed to take down at least 3 of her Pokemon in Red and Blue. Despite being able to learn Pin Missile at that point in Yellow, it actually does worse against her than in Red and Blue, due to all of her Pokemon actually having a Speed advantage against it.
--Blaine: As with RB Sabrina, Jolteon can beat all of his Pokemon minus Arcanine.
--Giovanni: Jolteon can't do much of anything here.
--Lorelei: Jolteon can beat Dewgong, Cloyster, and Slowbro with little trouble. It can also defeat Jynx one-on-one, but Lapras can take a hit and retaliate with either a 120 base power STAB move or with Body Slam/Confuse Ray to inflict status.
--Bruno: His duo of Onix wall Jolteon without hesitation or worry, but his Fighting-types will easily fall to Thunderbolt.
--Agatha: Each of her Ghost-types can take a Thunderbolt, albeit without losing a noticeable chunk of HP, and proceed to status Jolteon; however, should they not, Jolteon can beat them.
--Lance: His Gyarados is fried before you can bat an eye. Aerodactyl is also OHKOed, but it is faster due to its higher level, and Hyper Beam hits like a truck. His other Pokemon can easily take a Thunderbolt and Hyper Beam in return.
--Rival: Regardless of the game, his Water-type will always be beaten. His Grass-type can be taken down with Pin Missile, but don't expect Jolteon to get off scot free. His Charizard, should he have it, is another Pokemon who's defeated without much worry, and the same can be said about Pidgeot. There's no way Jolteon's getting past Rhydon (RB) or Sandslash (Y), and it also has trouble with Alakazam.
-Additional Comments: If you plan on using Jolteon, teaching it Thunderbolt is almost a necessity, as its movepool is quite barren otherwise. This is especially notable in Yellow, as it can't even learn Thundershock in that game. However, if given Thunderbolt, Jolteon will excel and cruise through more than half the time it's in your party, with the only times it does poorly being Celadon and Viridian Gyms.
- Jynx
- Jynx - High Tier
-Availability: Jynx is obtained through a trade in Cerulean City in Red and Blue, but the Poliwhirl you need in order to get it is unavailable until you have the Super Rod. That means you can obtain Jynx as soon as you get the Poke Flute, as you can fish for Poliwhirl in Celadon City/Route 10 and have a 50% chance to get it. From there, Jynx has about half the game ahead of it.
-Stats: Jynx is fragile, but fast enough to outspeed pretty much anything with a level lead. It can be outraced by something like Lance's Aerodactyl if you didn't use an X-Speed though.
-Movepool: When you get your (probably L23 or so) Jynx, the only good move it will have is Lovely Kiss. However, the Ice Beam and Psychic TMs are available to it as soon as you get it. If you don't want to invest Ice Beam into Jynx, it also learns Ice Punch at L31, and even Blizzard at L58 (though it's unlikely to end up that high if your party is reasonably large, so if you want Blizzard just use the TM). It also learns Body Slam naturally at L39, which can be used against fellow Psychics.
-Power: Jynx's Special is pretty good, Attack not so much. However, its attacking moves are backed by high base power, STAB, AND usually a type advantage, so it tends to destroy everything from the getgo.
-Type: Ice/Psychic is the best offensive typing you could get in-game, probably. Both of its types hit super effective on a lot of common and important enemies. Jynx's weaknesses generally don't end up being exploited because the types it's weak to are fairly rare other than perhaps Fire, plus it's so fast and powerful that whatever gets hit by it ends up crumbling. For example, it's weak to Rock Slide, but Jynx isn't afraid of Rhydon.
-Match-ups: The best part about Jynx. With just the Psychic TM, Jynx can go the distance against Team Rocket in Silph Co., the Fighting Dojo, the Bikers on the Cycling Road, Erika and Koga. It might not OHKO all of these right away, but it grows really fast thanks to the trade EXP bonus, so it will soon enough. Ice Punch or Ice Beam works well against Giovanni's gym. From there, Jynx does fine against Lorelei (though if you want to conserve her PP, its best to leave her out of that one), and then proceeds to massacre Bruno, Agatha and Lance (except Gyarados, but you can Lovely Kiss that). Jynx can also assist in battles against Gary, able to do a number on Pidgeot, Rhydon, and Venusaur/Exeggutor. It's also one of the safer ways to tackle Sabrina and Gary's Alakazam, since it can paralyze them with Body Slam, freeze with an Ice move, and/or use Psychic to drop their Special without being at risk of getting KO'd in the meantime.
Additional comments: Jynx does pretty much require the Psychic TM, so obviously don't use it in the same playthrough as something else that wants to use that. Even though Jynx will start underleveled, the trade EXP and its high offense let it stand on its own legs very quickly. Lovely Kiss is also very powerful in a game where you can't attack on the same turn you wake up. It lets Jynx put strong enemies to sleep and stay in with very little risk, and it also assists in catching Pokemon.
-Availability: Jynx is obtained through a trade in Cerulean City in Red and Blue, but the Poliwhirl you need in order to get it is unavailable until you have the Super Rod. That means you can obtain Jynx as soon as you get the Poke Flute, as you can fish for Poliwhirl in Celadon City/Route 10 and have a 50% chance to get it. From there, Jynx has about half the game ahead of it.
-Stats: Jynx is fragile, but fast enough to outspeed pretty much anything with a level lead. It can be outraced by something like Lance's Aerodactyl if you didn't use an X-Speed though.
-Movepool: When you get your (probably L23 or so) Jynx, the only good move it will have is Lovely Kiss. However, the Ice Beam and Psychic TMs are available to it as soon as you get it. If you don't want to invest Ice Beam into Jynx, it also learns Ice Punch at L31, and even Blizzard at L58 (though it's unlikely to end up that high if your party is reasonably large, so if you want Blizzard just use the TM). It also learns Body Slam naturally at L39, which can be used against fellow Psychics.
-Power: Jynx's Special is pretty good, Attack not so much. However, its attacking moves are backed by high base power, STAB, AND usually a type advantage, so it tends to destroy everything from the getgo.
-Type: Ice/Psychic is the best offensive typing you could get in-game, probably. Both of its types hit super effective on a lot of common and important enemies. Jynx's weaknesses generally don't end up being exploited because the types it's weak to are fairly rare other than perhaps Fire, plus it's so fast and powerful that whatever gets hit by it ends up crumbling. For example, it's weak to Rock Slide, but Jynx isn't afraid of Rhydon.
-Match-ups: The best part about Jynx. With just the Psychic TM, Jynx can go the distance against Team Rocket in Silph Co., the Fighting Dojo, the Bikers on the Cycling Road, Erika and Koga. It might not OHKO all of these right away, but it grows really fast thanks to the trade EXP bonus, so it will soon enough. Ice Punch or Ice Beam works well against Giovanni's gym. From there, Jynx does fine against Lorelei (though if you want to conserve her PP, its best to leave her out of that one), and then proceeds to massacre Bruno, Agatha and Lance (except Gyarados, but you can Lovely Kiss that). Jynx can also assist in battles against Gary, able to do a number on Pidgeot, Rhydon, and Venusaur/Exeggutor. It's also one of the safer ways to tackle Sabrina and Gary's Alakazam, since it can paralyze them with Body Slam, freeze with an Ice move, and/or use Psychic to drop their Special without being at risk of getting KO'd in the meantime.
Additional comments: Jynx does pretty much require the Psychic TM, so obviously don't use it in the same playthrough as something else that wants to use that. Even though Jynx will start underleveled, the trade EXP and its high offense let it stand on its own legs very quickly. Lovely Kiss is also very powerful in a game where you can't attack on the same turn you wake up. It lets Jynx put strong enemies to sleep and stay in with very little risk, and it also assists in catching Pokemon.
- Krabby (BY)
-Krabby (Blue/Yellow) – High Tier
-Availability: While Krabby can be caught in its base form by fishing with the Super Rod in various areas including (but not limited to) Fuschia City, Vermilion City, and Routes 11, 12, 18, it'll only be level 15, meaning it would have quite a long way to catch up the rest of the party. In Yellow, Krabby can be found in the bottom 2 floors of Seafoam Islands by means of the Super Rod at level 35 as a Kingler. However, Kingler can be found at the B3 floor of Seafoam Islands level 39, which should be very similar in level to the rest of your team, provided you went to get it before clearing out Silph Co. While they only have a 4% chance of appearing, Repels remedy this, provided the Pokemon leading your party isn't below level 34 or above level 39 at the time. Krabby can evolve at level 28, in other words right after being caught.
-Stats: Kingler has a massive base 130 Attack, which is tied with Rhydon and Flareon and second only to Dragonite, which is almost impossible to get in-game without a large amount of grinding. Its Defense isn't too far behind, and its Speed is enough to outpace an almost all of the game's remaining Pokemon (at least those who aren't higher leveled than it). However, Kingler's weakest stat is Special, at a dismal base 50. Of course, If you settled for Krabby to get earlier access to Crabhammer, you don't have to worry too much, as it still has solid Attack and Defense.
-Movepool: Krabby and Kingler have exclusive access to the move Crabhammer, which acts like a slightly more powerful, 85% accurate, Water-type Slash, and as such is the best Water-type move in the game. As such, it makes up for Kingler's pathetic Special, and is mandatory on it. Kingler, like most other Water-types, has access to Ice Beam and Blizzard, but its awful Special means its usability outside of Lance is just as bad. Also, Kingler can learn Guillotine, which is an OHKO move and as such can make it quite useful for major battles in combination with X Accuracy and X Speed when Crabhammer and Strength can't cut it. Kingler learns Guillotine at level 25 and Crabhammer at level 42. Also, catching Krabby rather than Kingler in Yellow for an earlier Crabhammer is a definite option, as Krabby learns it at level 35. If you teach Kingler Surf and Strength, it can also act as a useful HM slave alongside its role of killing things with Crabhammer.
-Power: Against the majority of trainers, Kingler does well, with Crabhammer to annihilate anything weak to it and Strength to deal with everything else. Crabhammer and Water-typing combined with a titanic Base 130 Attack make Kingler a mixed attacker while simultaneously having perfect type coverage in just 2 moves, allowing it to hold its own against the majority of the game's remaining trainers.
-Type: While Kingler is a Water-type with no secondary typings, it isn't too bad, because Kingler's weaknesses are both very uncommon, meaning Kingler won't have much to worry about in the majority of battles as far as type match-ups are concerned.
-Match-ups: The X item + Guillotine combination will not be taken into account for these battles, as Kingler defeats everybody (with the exceptions of Agatha and Sabrina) with it.
--Sabrina: Although Strength hits her Pokemon like a truck, the majority of her Pokemon are faster than Kingler and hurt it hard due to its dismal Special.
--Blaine: Considering the fact that his Pokemon are weak to Crabhammer and the fact that Kingler can confidently take physical hits not boosted by STAB, the outcome of this should be easy to see.
--Giovanni: Giovanni is steamrolled in Red and Blue, but he is definitely more threatening to Kingler in Yellow, as both his Nidos know Thunder, meaning if they survive a Crabhammer, there's a 70% chance of it getting fried.
--Lorelei: Unfortunately for Kingler, Lorelei happens to have Cloyster, Slowbro, and Lapras: the 3 Water-types that give Kingler the most trouble, in her arsenal.
--Bruno: Kingler can take a good amount of his Pokemon's attacks and whack them hard with Crabhammer, but don't expect Kingler to take hits from his entire team, as it only 2HKOes the Fighting-types, meaning they're guaranteed to get at least one hit in, and Hitmonlee can attack a second time before going down, thanks to its superior Speed.
--Agatha: Her Ghost-types can comfortably take everything Kingler can throw at it, although multiple Crabhammers will wear them down over time. It doesn't help that her first Gengar in Yellow knows Mega Drain.
--Lance: While Kingler can withstand more than one Hyper Beam, the only Pokemon it can do large amounts of damage against without the need for TMs is Aerodactyl. If Blizzard is added to the mix, Kingler can take out some of his Dragon-types, but they're merely 2HKOes against them, which when combined with Blizzards pathetic 5 PP means it usually won't be able to defeat his 2 Dragonair and his Dragonite in the same battle. In Yellow, Lance's first Dragonair and Dragonite know Thunderbolt and Thunder, respectively, neutralizing any attempts at chilling them to the bone.
--Rival: Needless to say, Alakazam, Magneton, and Jolteon beat Kingler with little trouble. Venusaur also does this, but it would require you to start the game with Squirtle, which means that scenario is very unlikely to happen. Gyarados, Cloyster, and Vaporeon can cause trouble, thanks to their usable, stellar, and solid (respectively) physical bulk. Everything else is handily beaten.
-Additional Comments: Kingler's greatest asset is its access to Crabhammer. Because of this, Repels aren't completely necessary, as Krabby should be able to hold its own until it learns Crabhammer at level 35. Of course, the second-highest Attack stat in the game as well as possessing perfect type coverage and the ability to hit solidly on both ends of the spectrum at the same time help its cause as well.
-Availability: While Krabby can be caught in its base form by fishing with the Super Rod in various areas including (but not limited to) Fuschia City, Vermilion City, and Routes 11, 12, 18, it'll only be level 15, meaning it would have quite a long way to catch up the rest of the party. In Yellow, Krabby can be found in the bottom 2 floors of Seafoam Islands by means of the Super Rod at level 35 as a Kingler. However, Kingler can be found at the B3 floor of Seafoam Islands level 39, which should be very similar in level to the rest of your team, provided you went to get it before clearing out Silph Co. While they only have a 4% chance of appearing, Repels remedy this, provided the Pokemon leading your party isn't below level 34 or above level 39 at the time. Krabby can evolve at level 28, in other words right after being caught.
-Stats: Kingler has a massive base 130 Attack, which is tied with Rhydon and Flareon and second only to Dragonite, which is almost impossible to get in-game without a large amount of grinding. Its Defense isn't too far behind, and its Speed is enough to outpace an almost all of the game's remaining Pokemon (at least those who aren't higher leveled than it). However, Kingler's weakest stat is Special, at a dismal base 50. Of course, If you settled for Krabby to get earlier access to Crabhammer, you don't have to worry too much, as it still has solid Attack and Defense.
-Movepool: Krabby and Kingler have exclusive access to the move Crabhammer, which acts like a slightly more powerful, 85% accurate, Water-type Slash, and as such is the best Water-type move in the game. As such, it makes up for Kingler's pathetic Special, and is mandatory on it. Kingler, like most other Water-types, has access to Ice Beam and Blizzard, but its awful Special means its usability outside of Lance is just as bad. Also, Kingler can learn Guillotine, which is an OHKO move and as such can make it quite useful for major battles in combination with X Accuracy and X Speed when Crabhammer and Strength can't cut it. Kingler learns Guillotine at level 25 and Crabhammer at level 42. Also, catching Krabby rather than Kingler in Yellow for an earlier Crabhammer is a definite option, as Krabby learns it at level 35. If you teach Kingler Surf and Strength, it can also act as a useful HM slave alongside its role of killing things with Crabhammer.
-Power: Against the majority of trainers, Kingler does well, with Crabhammer to annihilate anything weak to it and Strength to deal with everything else. Crabhammer and Water-typing combined with a titanic Base 130 Attack make Kingler a mixed attacker while simultaneously having perfect type coverage in just 2 moves, allowing it to hold its own against the majority of the game's remaining trainers.
-Type: While Kingler is a Water-type with no secondary typings, it isn't too bad, because Kingler's weaknesses are both very uncommon, meaning Kingler won't have much to worry about in the majority of battles as far as type match-ups are concerned.
-Match-ups: The X item + Guillotine combination will not be taken into account for these battles, as Kingler defeats everybody (with the exceptions of Agatha and Sabrina) with it.
--Sabrina: Although Strength hits her Pokemon like a truck, the majority of her Pokemon are faster than Kingler and hurt it hard due to its dismal Special.
--Blaine: Considering the fact that his Pokemon are weak to Crabhammer and the fact that Kingler can confidently take physical hits not boosted by STAB, the outcome of this should be easy to see.
--Giovanni: Giovanni is steamrolled in Red and Blue, but he is definitely more threatening to Kingler in Yellow, as both his Nidos know Thunder, meaning if they survive a Crabhammer, there's a 70% chance of it getting fried.
--Lorelei: Unfortunately for Kingler, Lorelei happens to have Cloyster, Slowbro, and Lapras: the 3 Water-types that give Kingler the most trouble, in her arsenal.
--Bruno: Kingler can take a good amount of his Pokemon's attacks and whack them hard with Crabhammer, but don't expect Kingler to take hits from his entire team, as it only 2HKOes the Fighting-types, meaning they're guaranteed to get at least one hit in, and Hitmonlee can attack a second time before going down, thanks to its superior Speed.
--Agatha: Her Ghost-types can comfortably take everything Kingler can throw at it, although multiple Crabhammers will wear them down over time. It doesn't help that her first Gengar in Yellow knows Mega Drain.
--Lance: While Kingler can withstand more than one Hyper Beam, the only Pokemon it can do large amounts of damage against without the need for TMs is Aerodactyl. If Blizzard is added to the mix, Kingler can take out some of his Dragon-types, but they're merely 2HKOes against them, which when combined with Blizzards pathetic 5 PP means it usually won't be able to defeat his 2 Dragonair and his Dragonite in the same battle. In Yellow, Lance's first Dragonair and Dragonite know Thunderbolt and Thunder, respectively, neutralizing any attempts at chilling them to the bone.
--Rival: Needless to say, Alakazam, Magneton, and Jolteon beat Kingler with little trouble. Venusaur also does this, but it would require you to start the game with Squirtle, which means that scenario is very unlikely to happen. Gyarados, Cloyster, and Vaporeon can cause trouble, thanks to their usable, stellar, and solid (respectively) physical bulk. Everything else is handily beaten.
-Additional Comments: Kingler's greatest asset is its access to Crabhammer. Because of this, Repels aren't completely necessary, as Krabby should be able to hold its own until it learns Crabhammer at level 35. Of course, the second-highest Attack stat in the game as well as possessing perfect type coverage and the ability to hit solidly on both ends of the spectrum at the same time help its cause as well.
- Mr. Mime
-Mr. Mime - High Tier
-Availability: Obtained from a trade (Abra in RB and Clefairy in Yellow). Its level when you receive it depends on the level of the Pokémon you are trading. Chances are it will be underleveled unless you happen to level up the Pokémon you are going to trade away as you are heading to Vermillion City. However, the boosted experience allows Mr. Mime to gain levels very quickly and it will catch up to the rest of your team in a flash.
-Stats: Mr. Mime has good Speed (90) and Special (100), giving it strong battling capabilities. The HP (40) and Defense (65) are low but it isn’t a crippling problem because most opponents will fold before they strike. Its frailty may come into play in gym leader battle though.
-Movepool: Sadly, Mr. Mime has a poor level-up movepool. Confusion is its only decent attack, although it is acceptable early on and makes a good back-up to Psychic for killing weaklings and conserving PP. Speaking of which, it can learn Psychic through TM, which is pretty much all it needs. It also gets Thunderbolt. Thunderbolt is its best option against other Psychics and it expands its coverage a bit, but it isn't something that Mr. Mime is in desperate need for and it should only be used if you have nothing else to give it to (Electric-types get first dibs).
-Power: Mr. Mime is actually the weakest fully evolved pure-Psychic type, but this is more of a reflection of the quality of the other Psychics rather than Mr. Mime itself. It doesn’t quite OHKO with Confusion like Kadabra/Alakazam tend to but it is still a powerful Pokémon capable of at least 2HKOing pretty much everything. When it gets Psychic (obtainable before Erika) it really takes off and is capable of OHKOing most things.
-Type: Psychic is highly regarded as the best type in RBY. Psychic is super-effective against Fighting and Poison, allowing it to blast through Team Rocket grunts, and it is only resisted by itself so it has excellent neutral coverage.
-Match-ups: Lt. Surge – Decent match-up in RB thanks to high Special and his team's lack of powerful physical moves. Yellow is harder thanks to Mega Punch and Mega Kick. Raichu can take Confusion fairly easily too.
Erika – Psychic destroys almost everything in this whole gym. Tangela can take it better than Gloom/Vileplume and Weepinbell/Victreebel but it can’t do much back.
Koga – Psychic is super-effective against everything and it resists the Psychic attacks being fired back at it in Yellow. It should do great here.
Sabrina – Pretty much a mirror match. The outcome depends on level but Recover gives Kadabra and Alakazam a bit of an edge unfortunately. You should beat Venomoth in RB easily though.
Blaine – This also depends on level but Mr. Mime’s high special helps it take Flamethrower/Fire Blast. It doesn’t dominate because physical attacks hurt but it can contribute.
Giovanni – Psychic makes short work of Nidoqueen and Nidoking. His other Pokémon have poor Special stats but they can hit back hard. Mr. Mime can contribute here too but just be wary of things like Persian's Slash.
Lorelei – A neutral match-up overall, although Slowbro and Jynx resist Psychic so they are tricky to take down (note that Slowbro has Amnesia). Thunderbolt is useful here if you gave it to Mr. Mime, although your Electric type probably got it instead.
Bruno – You win easily here. His fighting Pokémon lose. Onix is frail and can't hit back hard enough to be a real threat.
Agatha – Psychic is super-effective against everything. You should win unless you get unlucky with confusion damage or something.
Lance – There isn’t really an advantage or a disadvantage type wise. Mr. Mime won’t want to take Hyper Beam too much, but it can take special attacks which is handy in Yellow. Thunderbolt is great for Gyarados and Aerodactyl.
Blue – None of his Pokémon are actually weak to Psychic except Venusaur, so this will come down to stats. You should be able to at least beat things like Venusaur, Pidgeot, and Rhydon among others. Thunderbolt will expand your targets too. Overall, Mr. Mime can pull its weight and you just have to pick your targets wisely.
-Additional Comments: Although it doesn't have the raw killing power of Alakazam, it is still a great battler and the massive amount of experience this gains from battling makes it a great choice. It makes Mr. Mime a breeze to train and it also give more opportunities for its teammates to jump into battle and gain experience, making it a great team supporter.
-Availability: Obtained from a trade (Abra in RB and Clefairy in Yellow). Its level when you receive it depends on the level of the Pokémon you are trading. Chances are it will be underleveled unless you happen to level up the Pokémon you are going to trade away as you are heading to Vermillion City. However, the boosted experience allows Mr. Mime to gain levels very quickly and it will catch up to the rest of your team in a flash.
-Stats: Mr. Mime has good Speed (90) and Special (100), giving it strong battling capabilities. The HP (40) and Defense (65) are low but it isn’t a crippling problem because most opponents will fold before they strike. Its frailty may come into play in gym leader battle though.
-Movepool: Sadly, Mr. Mime has a poor level-up movepool. Confusion is its only decent attack, although it is acceptable early on and makes a good back-up to Psychic for killing weaklings and conserving PP. Speaking of which, it can learn Psychic through TM, which is pretty much all it needs. It also gets Thunderbolt. Thunderbolt is its best option against other Psychics and it expands its coverage a bit, but it isn't something that Mr. Mime is in desperate need for and it should only be used if you have nothing else to give it to (Electric-types get first dibs).
-Power: Mr. Mime is actually the weakest fully evolved pure-Psychic type, but this is more of a reflection of the quality of the other Psychics rather than Mr. Mime itself. It doesn’t quite OHKO with Confusion like Kadabra/Alakazam tend to but it is still a powerful Pokémon capable of at least 2HKOing pretty much everything. When it gets Psychic (obtainable before Erika) it really takes off and is capable of OHKOing most things.
-Type: Psychic is highly regarded as the best type in RBY. Psychic is super-effective against Fighting and Poison, allowing it to blast through Team Rocket grunts, and it is only resisted by itself so it has excellent neutral coverage.
-Match-ups: Lt. Surge – Decent match-up in RB thanks to high Special and his team's lack of powerful physical moves. Yellow is harder thanks to Mega Punch and Mega Kick. Raichu can take Confusion fairly easily too.
Erika – Psychic destroys almost everything in this whole gym. Tangela can take it better than Gloom/Vileplume and Weepinbell/Victreebel but it can’t do much back.
Koga – Psychic is super-effective against everything and it resists the Psychic attacks being fired back at it in Yellow. It should do great here.
Sabrina – Pretty much a mirror match. The outcome depends on level but Recover gives Kadabra and Alakazam a bit of an edge unfortunately. You should beat Venomoth in RB easily though.
Blaine – This also depends on level but Mr. Mime’s high special helps it take Flamethrower/Fire Blast. It doesn’t dominate because physical attacks hurt but it can contribute.
Giovanni – Psychic makes short work of Nidoqueen and Nidoking. His other Pokémon have poor Special stats but they can hit back hard. Mr. Mime can contribute here too but just be wary of things like Persian's Slash.
Lorelei – A neutral match-up overall, although Slowbro and Jynx resist Psychic so they are tricky to take down (note that Slowbro has Amnesia). Thunderbolt is useful here if you gave it to Mr. Mime, although your Electric type probably got it instead.
Bruno – You win easily here. His fighting Pokémon lose. Onix is frail and can't hit back hard enough to be a real threat.
Agatha – Psychic is super-effective against everything. You should win unless you get unlucky with confusion damage or something.
Lance – There isn’t really an advantage or a disadvantage type wise. Mr. Mime won’t want to take Hyper Beam too much, but it can take special attacks which is handy in Yellow. Thunderbolt is great for Gyarados and Aerodactyl.
Blue – None of his Pokémon are actually weak to Psychic except Venusaur, so this will come down to stats. You should be able to at least beat things like Venusaur, Pidgeot, and Rhydon among others. Thunderbolt will expand your targets too. Overall, Mr. Mime can pull its weight and you just have to pick your targets wisely.
-Additional Comments: Although it doesn't have the raw killing power of Alakazam, it is still a great battler and the massive amount of experience this gains from battling makes it a great choice. It makes Mr. Mime a breeze to train and it also give more opportunities for its teammates to jump into battle and gain experience, making it a great team supporter.
- Omanyte
Omanyte - High Tier
Availability: Technically available as soon as Surf is obtained, which is after Koga is beaten. However, Erika/Koga/Sabrina/Blaine can be beaten in any order (the only condition being Koga beaten before Blaine because Surf). Generally though, it is obtained before Blaine.
Stats: Monstrous Defense and Special, bad Speed, average HP and irrelevant Atk. Omanyte has higher Special than Blastoise, serving to show how amazing it is.
Movepool: Gets Surf instantly, Blizzard (which is great in RBY due to 90% accuracy) is found in Pokemon Mansion. Those two can literally carry Omanyte throughout the game.
Power: Possesses great bulk on both ends of the spectrum and really is only let down by bad speed.
Type: His weaknesses aren't really relevant when you get him except for Ground (Giovanni), Fighting (limited to... Bruno's Hitmonlee, Machamp is outsped and killed) and Venusaur/Exeggutor (Champion). He doesn't learn any Rock attacks but it's not really relevant because Blizzard destroys flying types, Surf destroys Fire types and Omastar doesn't have any business to be out against Lorelei.
Matchups:
Erika: While you most likely will not have Omanyte before facing her, it is still possible. Anyway, Omanyte even with Blizzard has no business in this gym.
Sabrina: While you most likely will not have Omanyte before facing her, it is still possible. Omanyte doesn't hit anything hard here and Alakazam's crit hit rate may destroy it.
Blaine: Surf virtually OHKOes everything.
Giovanni: Surf OHKOs everything except Persian in Yellow who can't do anything back. Nidos in Yellow possess Thunder/Earthquake/Double Kick, while Dugtrio outruns, has a monstrous crit rate and hence may OHKO with EQ.
Lorelei: Omastar doesn't really have business facing her. He can't really deal decent damage.
Bruno: Omastar destroys his Onixes and Hitmonchan, but Hitmonlee and Machamp may outrun/survive a Surf and attack back.
Agatha: Her lead Gengar in RB has Mega Drain, but aside from that not really much of a threat.
Lance: Take care of Thunderbolt Dragonair and Thunder Dragonite in Yellow, and Gyarados in both, and Omastar has a field day here. RB Lance is basically trivialised thanks to Omastar resisting everything.
Blue: Only RB Venusaur/Yellow Jolteon is even a threat. Exeggutor mysteriously doesn't carry even Mega Drain.
AC: Omanyte hits hard from the get-go and has immediate access to useful moves. He also gets a gym to destroy, if anything.
Availability: Technically available as soon as Surf is obtained, which is after Koga is beaten. However, Erika/Koga/Sabrina/Blaine can be beaten in any order (the only condition being Koga beaten before Blaine because Surf). Generally though, it is obtained before Blaine.
Stats: Monstrous Defense and Special, bad Speed, average HP and irrelevant Atk. Omanyte has higher Special than Blastoise, serving to show how amazing it is.
Movepool: Gets Surf instantly, Blizzard (which is great in RBY due to 90% accuracy) is found in Pokemon Mansion. Those two can literally carry Omanyte throughout the game.
Power: Possesses great bulk on both ends of the spectrum and really is only let down by bad speed.
Type: His weaknesses aren't really relevant when you get him except for Ground (Giovanni), Fighting (limited to... Bruno's Hitmonlee, Machamp is outsped and killed) and Venusaur/Exeggutor (Champion). He doesn't learn any Rock attacks but it's not really relevant because Blizzard destroys flying types, Surf destroys Fire types and Omastar doesn't have any business to be out against Lorelei.
Matchups:
Erika: While you most likely will not have Omanyte before facing her, it is still possible. Anyway, Omanyte even with Blizzard has no business in this gym.
Sabrina: While you most likely will not have Omanyte before facing her, it is still possible. Omanyte doesn't hit anything hard here and Alakazam's crit hit rate may destroy it.
Blaine: Surf virtually OHKOes everything.
Giovanni: Surf OHKOs everything except Persian in Yellow who can't do anything back. Nidos in Yellow possess Thunder/Earthquake/Double Kick, while Dugtrio outruns, has a monstrous crit rate and hence may OHKO with EQ.
Lorelei: Omastar doesn't really have business facing her. He can't really deal decent damage.
Bruno: Omastar destroys his Onixes and Hitmonchan, but Hitmonlee and Machamp may outrun/survive a Surf and attack back.
Agatha: Her lead Gengar in RB has Mega Drain, but aside from that not really much of a threat.
Lance: Take care of Thunderbolt Dragonair and Thunder Dragonite in Yellow, and Gyarados in both, and Omastar has a field day here. RB Lance is basically trivialised thanks to Omastar resisting everything.
Blue: Only RB Venusaur/Yellow Jolteon is even a threat. Exeggutor mysteriously doesn't carry even Mega Drain.
AC: Omanyte hits hard from the get-go and has immediate access to useful moves. He also gets a gym to destroy, if anything.
- Sandshrew
Sandshrew - High Tier
Availability: Sandshrew is only available in Blue and Yellow. You can get it on Route 4 in Blue, or even earlier on Route 3 or Mt Moon (1F) if you're playing Yellow.
Stats: This line has some pretty good Attack and Defense. Nothing else really stands out, but it has enough Speed to get the jump on most enemies as long as it's got the usual level advantage. That sore Special is only a problem when it has to take a hit.
Movepool: It learns Slash at L17, giving Sandshrew 62.5% chance to score a CH. Sandslash has the full 99.6%. However, beyond that, the level-up movepool is completely barren. The best TM move you can teach it is Dig, which is also the only TM it will ever really need to perform well. It's a costly one, though, but few Pokemon can claim to use it better. Earthquake TM can be a nice PP addition or even replacement for Dig when you get it in Silph Co. Rock Slide might come in handy occasionally, but usually you can use Slash on fliers and bugs to come out on top.
Power: As soon as Sandshrew evolves at L22, it should be able to sweep just about anything with Slash and Dig thanks to its 100 base Attack. Only bulky enemies will be able to survive.
Match-ups:
Misty - Really bad match-up.
Lt. Surge - Autowin, even without Dig his Pokemon just can't outdamage Slash.
Erika - You don't really want to get tangled up with her if you're Sandslash.
Koga - Autowin.
Blaine - You should be able to Dig or Earthquake his Pokemon into oblivion. Flamethrower/Fire Blast can be painful but in Blue only Arcanine has either of those, and in Yellow only Ninetales and Arcanine do. You will be able to take at least one strong attack.
Giovanni - You have a typing advantage over 4/5 of his team in Blue, and 3/5 in Yellow. He shouldn't be a problem.
Lorelei - Every single one of her Pokemon has a Water or Ice move, so Sandslash should sit this one out.
Bruno - While Sandslash doesn't do badly, you probably have Pokemon in your party that can OHKO all of his Pokemon, especially the Onixes.
Agatha - Chances are everything on her team will get OHKO'd by Earthquake, except for Golbat, which you can probably beat too despite confusion. Mega Drain and Psychic from the Gengars in Yellow can sting but won't OHKO.
Lance - You should avoid Gyarados and its Hydro Pump, and Aerodactyl too unless you have Rock Slide. Everything else is fair game in Blue, though a Pokemon with an Ice move would be better. In Yellow, Dragonite and the second Dragonair have Ice moves, so Sandslash is even more restricted there.
Overall, Sandslash's important battle match-ups are on the shaky side, but it can pull its weight overall considering just how powerful Slash and STAB Dig are. If you don't have the Dig TM to spare on your playthrough, he becomes significantly less powerful until Silph Co.
Availability: Sandshrew is only available in Blue and Yellow. You can get it on Route 4 in Blue, or even earlier on Route 3 or Mt Moon (1F) if you're playing Yellow.
Stats: This line has some pretty good Attack and Defense. Nothing else really stands out, but it has enough Speed to get the jump on most enemies as long as it's got the usual level advantage. That sore Special is only a problem when it has to take a hit.
Movepool: It learns Slash at L17, giving Sandshrew 62.5% chance to score a CH. Sandslash has the full 99.6%. However, beyond that, the level-up movepool is completely barren. The best TM move you can teach it is Dig, which is also the only TM it will ever really need to perform well. It's a costly one, though, but few Pokemon can claim to use it better. Earthquake TM can be a nice PP addition or even replacement for Dig when you get it in Silph Co. Rock Slide might come in handy occasionally, but usually you can use Slash on fliers and bugs to come out on top.
Power: As soon as Sandshrew evolves at L22, it should be able to sweep just about anything with Slash and Dig thanks to its 100 base Attack. Only bulky enemies will be able to survive.
Match-ups:
Misty - Really bad match-up.
Lt. Surge - Autowin, even without Dig his Pokemon just can't outdamage Slash.
Erika - You don't really want to get tangled up with her if you're Sandslash.
Koga - Autowin.
Blaine - You should be able to Dig or Earthquake his Pokemon into oblivion. Flamethrower/Fire Blast can be painful but in Blue only Arcanine has either of those, and in Yellow only Ninetales and Arcanine do. You will be able to take at least one strong attack.
Giovanni - You have a typing advantage over 4/5 of his team in Blue, and 3/5 in Yellow. He shouldn't be a problem.
Lorelei - Every single one of her Pokemon has a Water or Ice move, so Sandslash should sit this one out.
Bruno - While Sandslash doesn't do badly, you probably have Pokemon in your party that can OHKO all of his Pokemon, especially the Onixes.
Agatha - Chances are everything on her team will get OHKO'd by Earthquake, except for Golbat, which you can probably beat too despite confusion. Mega Drain and Psychic from the Gengars in Yellow can sting but won't OHKO.
Lance - You should avoid Gyarados and its Hydro Pump, and Aerodactyl too unless you have Rock Slide. Everything else is fair game in Blue, though a Pokemon with an Ice move would be better. In Yellow, Dragonite and the second Dragonair have Ice moves, so Sandslash is even more restricted there.
Overall, Sandslash's important battle match-ups are on the shaky side, but it can pull its weight overall considering just how powerful Slash and STAB Dig are. If you don't have the Dig TM to spare on your playthrough, he becomes significantly less powerful until Silph Co.
Comment on whichever you want. I know there was some interest in dropping Sandshrew, so this round should be interesting.
Don't have comments on anything (although I think I may rewrite Omanyte, I was the one who wrote that and I think there are some points in which I can improve on). I honestly don't know about Sandshrew's viability in High though :/
I'm fine with all of these in High. I wrote Sandshrew though, and reading it now it sounds kinda weak. And then I remember using it and just generally being impressed. There really isn't much to say about him other than "use Dig and Slash and you KO everything", which makes him sound a little underwhelming when you need to discuss anything else. But from my playthrough, I definitely got a High impression.
Don't apologise, it's not your fault.
I still hold my opinion about it, as well as my opinion about Ponyta, Electrode and Bulbasaur. I playtested them thoroughly, placed them all in the tiers I thought were appropriate based on the criteria that were set out at the beginning. And yet all of them were dropped due to popular opinion. I'm not happy about it, I'm not going to pretend that I am.
My opinion is not valued here, no matter how much testing and evidence is backing it. None of it. I playtested 5 pokemon, only one of them remains in the position I put it. Why did I bother? And a discussion where one side is unheard is more of a lecture.
This just seemed to be a decent hobby topic for me to look at and participate in, but it's stopped being fun. I find I have no more energy to spend on this. This is my last post. Peace out.
Seconding your opinion on Sandshrew. I have doubts about something that takes Special hits like a wet paper towel without the speed of Alakazam. I don't see it doing well against Blaine (though you should be using a Water type anyway), and beating Surge is nothing special; any Ground type can do that. It does beat Koga handily in Blue (doesn't appear in Red, iirc, and Psychic is very painful to Sandslash), but...
It's one of those cases where it only has a couple of battles that it shines in, and those battles are done better by other Ground types. It also has a crippling Special weakness and it's pretty slow. Never mind the fact that you have to TM Dig on it if you want any STAB, and if you're using Charmeleon, that's a pretty big deal. Ground also has this thing where it becomes less useful at the end of the game. It was nice when there were a bunch of Fire, Poison, and Electric types to crush, but after Blaine, they all but disappear. They're replaced by Water, Grass and special attackers. You know...Sandslash killers.
It's one of those cases where it only has a couple of battles that it shines in, and those battles are done better by other Ground types. It also has a crippling Special weakness and it's pretty slow. Never mind the fact that you have to TM Dig on it if you want any STAB, and if you're using Charmeleon, that's a pretty big deal. Ground also has this thing where it becomes less useful at the end of the game. It was nice when there were a bunch of Fire, Poison, and Electric types to crush, but after Blaine, they all but disappear. They're replaced by Water, Grass and special attackers. You know...Sandslash killers.
Where are these Water, Grass and special attackers that Sandslash fears so much? Yeah, it has to skip out on Lorelei and maybe the Alakazams, but other than that it's like whatever. Sandslash doesn't need a good matchup to contribute: it has one of the best types overall, and it has Slash.
To put it in a different perspective for you guys: this thing effectively gets STAB Earthquake right after the second gym. It needs some serious downsides to offset that.
Blaine? Sandslash dgaf about Blaine. You Dig/Earthquake and you win. You're probably faster than his entire team in RB, maybe minus Rapidash, and he'll probably use some shitty move like Leer or Roar if he somehow survives your onslaught.
Sandslash also isn't as slow as you're making it out to be. 65 base is enough to outspeed everything other than a few speed demons for pretty much all game.
You're grossly overestimating how hard/powerful the enemies in this game are. If it isn't something that hits Sandslash on its Special stat with 2x weakness with high speed to boot, Sandslash can probably go toe to toe with it.
To put it in a different perspective for you guys: this thing effectively gets STAB Earthquake right after the second gym. It needs some serious downsides to offset that.
Blaine? Sandslash dgaf about Blaine. You Dig/Earthquake and you win. You're probably faster than his entire team in RB, maybe minus Rapidash, and he'll probably use some shitty move like Leer or Roar if he somehow survives your onslaught.
Sandslash also isn't as slow as you're making it out to be. 65 base is enough to outspeed everything other than a few speed demons for pretty much all game.
You're grossly overestimating how hard/powerful the enemies in this game are. If it isn't something that hits Sandslash on its Special stat with 2x weakness with high speed to boot, Sandslash can probably go toe to toe with it.
Seeing your argument, I can definitely see a case for High. I was referring to Victory Road and the odd trainers in there. I'm sure he also loses out on experience while on the sea, but that's par for the course with Ground types that don't have T-bolt. I'd imagine Lance would give it some trouble, and definitely Agatha and her Gengars and Golbat, who outspeed and hit with Special or Confuse Ray attacks. Then again, Golbat is pretty content to dick around with Haze, so idk.
Agatha cannot possibly beat Sandslash. Everything except Golbat is OHKO'd by [Ground move]. The only way is if you hit yourself in confusion every time they Confuse Ray and you refuse to Full Restore yourself. The only exception is the Mega Drain and Psychic Gengars, but again, she'd have to actually use those moves, and they don't even OHKO.
In RB, barring Gyarados, Lance does absolutely nothing to Sandslash. There's more efficient ways to kill Dragons (everything with Ice Beam), but Sandslash isn't notably bad against them or anything. Aerodactyl would require Rock Slide, but pretty much nothing needs that TM, and if anything takes that TM it's prolly going to be the dude that takes care of Aerodactyl.
Yellow is different, but if you look through the entries you'll see that Yellow is harder for pretty much every 'mon, not just Sandslash, and all it really changes for Sandslash is that it's no longer safe vs one Dragonair and Dragonite.
In RB, barring Gyarados, Lance does absolutely nothing to Sandslash. There's more efficient ways to kill Dragons (everything with Ice Beam), but Sandslash isn't notably bad against them or anything. Aerodactyl would require Rock Slide, but pretty much nothing needs that TM, and if anything takes that TM it's prolly going to be the dude that takes care of Aerodactyl.
Yellow is different, but if you look through the entries you'll see that Yellow is harder for pretty much every 'mon, not just Sandslash, and all it really changes for Sandslash is that it's no longer safe vs one Dragonair and Dragonite.
Pretty sure that the Gengars, Golbat and the Haunter all outspeed Sandslash, two (Lower Leveled Gengar and Haunter) of which packs the Hypnoeater combo, so it's going to take a hit before dishing out Dig/EQ. Would Dragonite's Hyper Beam be survivable by Sandslash? I'd be leaning towards yes, myself.
By the way, I noticed that RB Agatha's Level 60 Gengar has THE worst moveset. Night Shade/Confuse Ray/Toxic/Dream Eater. That's right...that Gengar has a move it will probably never be able to use.
-Charmander - High Tier
-Availability: In RB, its a starter Pokemon. In Yellow, You get it at around the second gym at level 10. It comes under-leveled, but there is a patch of grass nearby containing Bellsprout, Oddish and Venonat, all of which Charmander can beat and all of which give plenty of experience. It does slow your playthrough a bit but it does not take Charmander too long to catch up and it’s worth it in the long run.
-Stats: Charmander has good stats but Charmeleon’s 64 Attack and 64 Special are mediocre for a mid game Pokemon. Charizard’s stats are reasonably balanced. 100 Speed is great for in-game runs, and 84 Attack and 85 Special are acceptable. 78/78/85 bulk gives Charizard reasonable defensive capabilities, allowing it to takes hits now and then.
-Movepool: Its level up movepool is not that great early on. Charmeleon needs Dig. Without it, Charmeleon is quite mediocre until it gets Slash at level 33. This is an issue since Dig is a valuable TM, but Charizard is a great user of Dig so don’t think of it as a waste. Charizard only needs Dig and Slash to dominate, and Fly and Flamethrower are mere bonuses. Note that Charizard only learns Fly in Yellow.
-Power: Early Charmander gets a lucky break due to the omnipresent Bug trainers, but as soon as they start to fade out Charmander/Charmeleon enters a lag phase. Charmeleon makes a comeback with Dig (and later Slash) to start pulling its weight. Once it evolves it becomes excellent. Charizard is a great in-game Pokémon, powering through opponents with ease.
-Type: It learns Fly (Yellow Only) and Flamethrower, which have good coverage (although Charizard will be using Slash and Dig for the most part). Defensively, it has a niche as a Fire type that is immune to Ground. Water, Rock, Ice and Electric weaknesses aren’t helpful but in most battles they are irrelevant because Charizard will kill opponents before they move.
-Match-ups:
Brock - Brock's Pokemon resist Ember, but their low Special means they will still be hurt by Ember. Just don't attack Onix during his Bide period and you should be fine. It is only possible for Charmander to fight Brock in Red & Blue.
Rival (Nugget Bridge) – Abra has no attacking moves, and Charmeleon can contribute against his Normal types. Squirtle has Water Gun though, so watch out. This match is only possible in R&B
Misty - Bad match-up, but Charmeleon with Dig can still act as a supporting attacker for teams lacking a specific answer to her team (e.g. finishing off Starmie after it's weakened and paralyzed).
Rival (SS Anne) – In R&B Charmeleon should be able to handle his non-Wartortle due to them being underleveled, Charmeleon does a better job of contributing in Yellow due to the rival’s lack of a Water Pokemon at this point.
Lt. Surge – If you have Dig and are at an acceptable level, you will do well here. Without Dig or Mega Punch/Body Slam TM, Charmeleon will have a tough fight due lack of a strong move and being hit by Raichu's powerful Thunderbolt.
Erika – The sad thing is that Ember is not that powerful despite the type advantage, if you are high leveled enough to have Slash at this point you are better off using that. Overall, the grass resistance should be enough for you to contribute.
Rival (Pokemon Tower) – Again in R&B his non-Wartortle Pokemon shouldn’t be a threat due to being underleveled. One good thing about picking Charmander means your rival will not have Gyarados, who can actually be a threat at this point if the game (if you didn’t use your Thunderbolt TM) due to its high stats and access to Dragon Rage & Hydro Pump. In Yellow Charmeleon shouldn’t have too much of a problem here except for Shellder.
Koga – In RB his Pokemon are weak against Ground meaning Dig will take them out, even without Dig Charizard stands a good chance due to Koga's Pokemon having poor move sets. In Yellow Fly is super-effective against his whole team and Psychic doesn’t exactly take Charizard down instantly.
Rival (Silph Co) – In R&B Slash should be good enough for his team, it can even contribute against Blastoise as Blastoise best STAB at this point is the pathetic Water Gun. In Yellow, the Rival will have either a Vaperon/Cloyster or a Jolteon/Magneton that can hit Charizard super effectively. The Electric types are beatable if Charizard has enough health to survive ThunderShock and kill them with Dig, but the Water types are bulky enough to survive Charizard’s hits. Vaperon only has the weak Water Gun to hit Charizard, but Cloyster has STAB Aurora Beam.
Sabrina – Slash deals plenty of damage on her Pokémon’s lower defense stat. As long as you are at a reasonable level you should be fine.
Blaine – You win with access to Dig. Even without Dig, you still win due to Slash and a resistance to Fire.
Giovanni – Dig is Super Effective against his whole team except Persian and Dugtrio, both of which Charizard can overwhelm with Slash. Without Dig Giovanni will be harder to beat as his Pokemon can take a hit, especially considering in Yellow his Nido's have Thunder and his Rhydon has Rock Slide.
Rival (Pre-Victory Road): In R&B Pidgeot, Growlithe, Rhyhorn, and Exeggucute are easily beaten. Alakazam is also manageable but watch out for its Psychic. Charizard has to watch out for Blastoise here, as it now knows Hydro Pump. In Yellow, Charizard can handle everything except for Jolteon’s Thunder, Vaperon’s Hydro Pump, and Cloyster’s Clamp/Aurora Beam.
Lorelei – Charizard is actually weak to Ice in RBY (plus Water obviously) so this isn’t a good match-up. Slash should beat Jynx though.
Bruno – Dig for Onix, but they have Rock moves. Fighting resistance is helpful for Hitmonlee and Machamp. In Yellow, Charizard can use STAB Fly to score a Super Effective hit on his Fighting types.
Agatha – Dig/Fly/Earthquake is great against everything except Golbat, who isn’t that strong anyway. Without Dig, Charizard will have a tough time taking her Pokemon down to their high Special and immunity to Slash. If you plan on fighting Agatha in Yellow by using Dig/Fly, watch out for Substitute on her first Gengar.
Lance – Its weaknesses to Ice, Electric and Water hurt it, and Aerodactyl is the only Pokémon in the game to resist all of Charizard’s main moves. This isn’t a great match-up for Charizard.
Blue – You should be fine to take on Sandslash, Rhydon, Pidgeot, Exeggutor, Ninetales, Arcanine, Flareon, and Alakazam is perfectly beatable thanks to Slash.
-Additional Comments: The main thing that prevents Charmander being Top tier is that it is rather weak before Slash, as it has to rely on Scratch and Ember. Before Slash, it gets a few notable TM's such as Mega Punch, Body Slam, and Dig. But the most efficient one (Dig) is a highly contested TM. Once Charizard has Slash and Dig, he becomes quite a monster and a valuable edition to any team.
-Availability: In RB, its a starter Pokemon. In Yellow, You get it at around the second gym at level 10. It comes under-leveled, but there is a patch of grass nearby containing Bellsprout, Oddish and Venonat, all of which Charmander can beat and all of which give plenty of experience. It does slow your playthrough a bit but it does not take Charmander too long to catch up and it’s worth it in the long run.
-Stats: Charmander has good stats but Charmeleon’s 64 Attack and 64 Special are mediocre for a mid game Pokemon. Charizard’s stats are reasonably balanced. 100 Speed is great for in-game runs, and 84 Attack and 85 Special are acceptable. 78/78/85 bulk gives Charizard reasonable defensive capabilities, allowing it to takes hits now and then.
-Movepool: Its level up movepool is not that great early on. Charmeleon needs Dig. Without it, Charmeleon is quite mediocre until it gets Slash at level 33. This is an issue since Dig is a valuable TM, but Charizard is a great user of Dig so don’t think of it as a waste. Charizard only needs Dig and Slash to dominate, and Fly and Flamethrower are mere bonuses. Note that Charizard only learns Fly in Yellow.
-Power: Early Charmander gets a lucky break due to the omnipresent Bug trainers, but as soon as they start to fade out Charmander/Charmeleon enters a lag phase. Charmeleon makes a comeback with Dig (and later Slash) to start pulling its weight. Once it evolves it becomes excellent. Charizard is a great in-game Pokémon, powering through opponents with ease.
-Type: It learns Fly (Yellow Only) and Flamethrower, which have good coverage (although Charizard will be using Slash and Dig for the most part). Defensively, it has a niche as a Fire type that is immune to Ground. Water, Rock, Ice and Electric weaknesses aren’t helpful but in most battles they are irrelevant because Charizard will kill opponents before they move.
-Match-ups:
Brock - Brock's Pokemon resist Ember, but their low Special means they will still be hurt by Ember. Just don't attack Onix during his Bide period and you should be fine. It is only possible for Charmander to fight Brock in Red & Blue.
Rival (Nugget Bridge) – Abra has no attacking moves, and Charmeleon can contribute against his Normal types. Squirtle has Water Gun though, so watch out. This match is only possible in R&B
Misty - Bad match-up, but Charmeleon with Dig can still act as a supporting attacker for teams lacking a specific answer to her team (e.g. finishing off Starmie after it's weakened and paralyzed).
Rival (SS Anne) – In R&B Charmeleon should be able to handle his non-Wartortle due to them being underleveled, Charmeleon does a better job of contributing in Yellow due to the rival’s lack of a Water Pokemon at this point.
Lt. Surge – If you have Dig and are at an acceptable level, you will do well here. Without Dig or Mega Punch/Body Slam TM, Charmeleon will have a tough fight due lack of a strong move and being hit by Raichu's powerful Thunderbolt.
Erika – The sad thing is that Ember is not that powerful despite the type advantage, if you are high leveled enough to have Slash at this point you are better off using that. Overall, the grass resistance should be enough for you to contribute.
Rival (Pokemon Tower) – Again in R&B his non-Wartortle Pokemon shouldn’t be a threat due to being underleveled. One good thing about picking Charmander means your rival will not have Gyarados, who can actually be a threat at this point if the game (if you didn’t use your Thunderbolt TM) due to its high stats and access to Dragon Rage & Hydro Pump. In Yellow Charmeleon shouldn’t have too much of a problem here except for Shellder.
Koga – In RB his Pokemon are weak against Ground meaning Dig will take them out, even without Dig Charizard stands a good chance due to Koga's Pokemon having poor move sets. In Yellow Fly is super-effective against his whole team and Psychic doesn’t exactly take Charizard down instantly.
Rival (Silph Co) – In R&B Slash should be good enough for his team, it can even contribute against Blastoise as Blastoise best STAB at this point is the pathetic Water Gun. In Yellow, the Rival will have either a Vaperon/Cloyster or a Jolteon/Magneton that can hit Charizard super effectively. The Electric types are beatable if Charizard has enough health to survive ThunderShock and kill them with Dig, but the Water types are bulky enough to survive Charizard’s hits. Vaperon only has the weak Water Gun to hit Charizard, but Cloyster has STAB Aurora Beam.
Sabrina – Slash deals plenty of damage on her Pokémon’s lower defense stat. As long as you are at a reasonable level you should be fine.
Blaine – You win with access to Dig. Even without Dig, you still win due to Slash and a resistance to Fire.
Giovanni – Dig is Super Effective against his whole team except Persian and Dugtrio, both of which Charizard can overwhelm with Slash. Without Dig Giovanni will be harder to beat as his Pokemon can take a hit, especially considering in Yellow his Nido's have Thunder and his Rhydon has Rock Slide.
Rival (Pre-Victory Road): In R&B Pidgeot, Growlithe, Rhyhorn, and Exeggucute are easily beaten. Alakazam is also manageable but watch out for its Psychic. Charizard has to watch out for Blastoise here, as it now knows Hydro Pump. In Yellow, Charizard can handle everything except for Jolteon’s Thunder, Vaperon’s Hydro Pump, and Cloyster’s Clamp/Aurora Beam.
Lorelei – Charizard is actually weak to Ice in RBY (plus Water obviously) so this isn’t a good match-up. Slash should beat Jynx though.
Bruno – Dig for Onix, but they have Rock moves. Fighting resistance is helpful for Hitmonlee and Machamp. In Yellow, Charizard can use STAB Fly to score a Super Effective hit on his Fighting types.
Agatha – Dig/Fly/Earthquake is great against everything except Golbat, who isn’t that strong anyway. Without Dig, Charizard will have a tough time taking her Pokemon down to their high Special and immunity to Slash. If you plan on fighting Agatha in Yellow by using Dig/Fly, watch out for Substitute on her first Gengar.
Lance – Its weaknesses to Ice, Electric and Water hurt it, and Aerodactyl is the only Pokémon in the game to resist all of Charizard’s main moves. This isn’t a great match-up for Charizard.
Blue – You should be fine to take on Sandslash, Rhydon, Pidgeot, Exeggutor, Ninetales, Arcanine, Flareon, and Alakazam is perfectly beatable thanks to Slash.
-Additional Comments: The main thing that prevents Charmander being Top tier is that it is rather weak before Slash, as it has to rely on Scratch and Ember. Before Slash, it gets a few notable TM's such as Mega Punch, Body Slam, and Dig. But the most efficient one (Dig) is a highly contested TM. Once Charizard has Slash and Dig, he becomes quite a monster and a valuable edition to any team.
Hypnosis + Dream Eater shouldn't be a problem because you can just use the Pokeflute to counter it.
@Hemp Man: Thanks I'll add that.
My thoughts:
I think Jolteon, Jynx, Krabby, Mr. Mime and Omanyte can all stay in High. I can explain why if people wish, but I'll leave that be for now.
Sandshrew... I haven't really used it much but I do think it looks good on paper. Slash is a really nice move and Sandslash has just enough Speed to guarantee a crit with it if it hits. STAB Dig soon after it's obtained is good too, and it can cope without Dig better than Geodude can because Slash is a better move than Mega Punch (Geodude does get Earthquake by level up eventually though so that only applies in the short-term).
In the last thread, someone said that Sandslash's extra 20 Speed over Golem isn't enough to put it in a higher tier. Maybe that's true and maybe it isn't, but I do think that people are being a bit too dismissive of Sandslash's extra speed. 20 points may not seem like much but when you consider the % of battles where you move first, that extra 20 Speed can actually have a pretty significant difference, especially on the longer routes. Not saying that this necessarily makes Geodude better or worse than Sandshrew but I don't think people should underestimate 45 Speed vs. 65 Speed.
Geodude's Rock/Ground type is probably more useful overall. Normal resistance is so good, and the Fighting weakness isn't a huge deal. On the other hand, Geodude is likely going to die to any Grass and Water attack, whereas Sandshrew has a chance to survive. Now obviously I'm not suggesting that people throw Sandslash in front of Misty, Lorelei or Erika just because it does better than Graveler/Golem, but if you think about a situation where you are leading with Geodude or Sandshrew on a regular route just to farm for experience, and you encounter a Grass team, Sandshrew is going to have a better chance of surviving that battle and gain experience, whereas Geodude could faint and cost you time by backtracking to the Pokemon centre. It's not like Sandslash cares about a lack of Normal resistance anyway, given its large Defence.
Alternatively, I could be overlooking something competely and I am just be talking out of my ass! Maybe someone with more experience with both of these Pokemon can enlighten me.
@Hemp Man: Thanks I'll add that.
My thoughts:
I think Jolteon, Jynx, Krabby, Mr. Mime and Omanyte can all stay in High. I can explain why if people wish, but I'll leave that be for now.
Sandshrew... I haven't really used it much but I do think it looks good on paper. Slash is a really nice move and Sandslash has just enough Speed to guarantee a crit with it if it hits. STAB Dig soon after it's obtained is good too, and it can cope without Dig better than Geodude can because Slash is a better move than Mega Punch (Geodude does get Earthquake by level up eventually though so that only applies in the short-term).
In the last thread, someone said that Sandslash's extra 20 Speed over Golem isn't enough to put it in a higher tier. Maybe that's true and maybe it isn't, but I do think that people are being a bit too dismissive of Sandslash's extra speed. 20 points may not seem like much but when you consider the % of battles where you move first, that extra 20 Speed can actually have a pretty significant difference, especially on the longer routes. Not saying that this necessarily makes Geodude better or worse than Sandshrew but I don't think people should underestimate 45 Speed vs. 65 Speed.
Geodude's Rock/Ground type is probably more useful overall. Normal resistance is so good, and the Fighting weakness isn't a huge deal. On the other hand, Geodude is likely going to die to any Grass and Water attack, whereas Sandshrew has a chance to survive. Now obviously I'm not suggesting that people throw Sandslash in front of Misty, Lorelei or Erika just because it does better than Graveler/Golem, but if you think about a situation where you are leading with Geodude or Sandshrew on a regular route just to farm for experience, and you encounter a Grass team, Sandshrew is going to have a better chance of surviving that battle and gain experience, whereas Geodude could faint and cost you time by backtracking to the Pokemon centre. It's not like Sandslash cares about a lack of Normal resistance anyway, given its large Defence.
Alternatively, I could be overlooking something competely and I am just be talking out of my ass! Maybe someone with more experience with both of these Pokemon can enlighten me.
Just to be clear, I always thought farfetch'd should be High, I just disagree with it being there only for its battling, which I would think undeserved
If you get statused and you don't hit through it, you use a Full Heal, Full Restore, or Poke Flute. It's that simple. We have to assume some kind of competence level for the player here.
Omanyte - High Tier
-Availability: Omanyte is accessible as soon as you have the ability to Surf, which requires the defeat of Koga. Omanyte comes at a strong Lv30, 10 levels away from evolution, and can defeat the local gym rather quickly for free experience.
-Stats: Omanyte possesses good Defense and Special, allowing it to have excellent bulk at both ends of the offensive spectrum. Said Special also gives him great offense as his STAB Surfs are ridiculously powerful, and he can use Ice Beam/Blizzard as auxiliary coverage. Omanyte has average speed but it is enough for most in-game purposes.
-Movepool: Omanyte has instant access to one of the best moves in the game in Surf, and is an investment well worth making since Omanyte with Surf is capable of steamrolling Blaine's entire gym at base level. Omanyte can also use Ice Beam / Blizzard to great effect, especially against enemies such as Lance.
-Power: Instant access to 95 BP STAB does wonders for Omanyte, especially when it makes training a breeze. Omanyte has instant wins over Blaine and RB Giovanni/Lance, and can help out significantly in most other battles due to the sheer power of STAB Surf.
-Type: Omanyte's Rock-typing is a double-edged sword. It does not bring any STAB to the table, not even Rock Slide. Rather, it brings to the table a Fighting and Ground weakness and compounds the Grass weakness of the Water-typing. However, Rock also gives it a nice resistance to Normal to complement its excellent defense. Omastar's coverage is generally limited to Surf/Blizzard or Ice Beam, but Omastar is strong enough that it usually ends up spamming these most of the time.
-Matchups:
Erika: Chances are you will not have Omanyte around for this battle, but regardless it's best not to use Omanyte here, even if you have taught Ice Beam or Blizzard. This is because Erika's Pokemon will outrun and hit hard with Razor Leaf/Mega Drain.
Sabrina: Omastar is a decent choice for this battle, although don't expect it to contribute significantly, since Sabrina's Pokemon have equally good Specials.
Blaine: Omanyte can literally walk in here at base level and steamroll everything. Due to a resistance to Normal/Fire, Omanyte tanks almost everything here with ease even when underlevelled and retaliates hard with Surf.
Giovanni: Omastar will have a good time here in RB due to everything being weak to Surf. In Yellow, Giovanni packs Earthquake Dugtrio and Thunder Nidos that make using Omastar a risky prospect. He's still one of the best candidates to kill Rhydon, if not for free EXP.
Rival [Pre-Victory Road]: It wins Pidgeot and Exeggcute with Blizzard, as well as all the fire types and Rhydon with Surf. It's stalemated against Gyarados/Alakazam, while Blastoise and Venusaur can beat it.
Lorelei: Not a battle that Omastar performs well in. Her stuff either resists Surf, Ice Beam/Blizzard, or both, not including that all of them have relatively good special.
Bruno: A cakewalk. Omastar can survive one of Hitmonlee's attacks and retaliate with Surf, Hitmonchan and Onix are both jokes, and Machamp can be handled if Omastar enters with full HP.
Agatha: The only thing you really need to watch out here is Mega Drain/Psychic Gengar, otherwise Omastar can tank everything else easily due to them being physical attacks.
Lance: RB Lance is easily taken care of by Omastar with the support of an electric-type to remove Gyarados. For Yellow, it's slightly trickier since Omastar has both Thunderbolt Dragonair and Thunder Dragonite to contend with.
Rival [Champion]: Almost the same deal as the other rival battle, i.e. bad against Blastoise/Venusaur/Exeggutor, wins Pidgeot/Rhydon/Fire-type, stalemates on Alakazam/Gyarados.
AC: Omanyte's main asset is being a late-game water: it's also one of the strongest at that. Rock-typing makes playing Omastar slightly more interesting than the others, but overall it's still one of those generic water-types.
I've found myself a small amount of free time, so I'm thinking of doing a quick runthrough of Yellow using Sandshrew (this would also allow me to test Amnesia Poliwag).
@TM13IceBeam: Awesome, I'll add that when I deal with all the other Pokemon up this round. Only comment I have is I question the purpose of including Erika in match-ups. I know that it is technically possible to have Omanyte for that battle, but you kind of have to go a bit out of what many would consider the "normal" order of gyms, and if its performance isn't even that good against her then... why?
@TM13IceBeam: Awesome, I'll add that when I deal with all the other Pokemon up this round. Only comment I have is I question the purpose of including Erika in match-ups. I know that it is technically possible to have Omanyte for that battle, but you kind of have to go a bit out of what many would consider the "normal" order of gyms, and if its performance isn't even that good against her then... why?
@Geodude Golem-- Eventual STAB on Rockslide is also useful, probably most notably against RB Lance (if you thought Sandslash was good against RB Lance, Golem...). Geodude also appears earlier than Sandshrew, and I think that should count for something.
I could say that the ability to shrug off Explosions/Self-Destructs is more useful for grinding (especially mid-late) than not being able to grind against random grass trainers (who Sandslash doesn't REALLY like either). It's a big loss of potential experience gain (and a wrench in your training) when a Ton/Weezing blows up and takes down your Poke just because you failed to OHKO it.
Not to mention Golem has better physical bulk, better special bulk, and more ATK.
Overall, I'd say 20 Speed, Slash, and even potential for using Swords Dance makes Sandslash a better in-game Pokemon than Golem, but the difference between them (plus the pros and cons of each) still leaves me scratching my head at the discrepancy in tier placement. The difference in their abilities is very slight imo.
I could say that the ability to shrug off Explosions/Self-Destructs is more useful for grinding (especially mid-late) than not being able to grind against random grass trainers (who Sandslash doesn't REALLY like either). It's a big loss of potential experience gain (and a wrench in your training) when a Ton/Weezing blows up and takes down your Poke just because you failed to OHKO it.
Not to mention Golem has better physical bulk, better special bulk, and more ATK.
Overall, I'd say 20 Speed, Slash, and even potential for using Swords Dance makes Sandslash a better in-game Pokemon than Golem, but the difference between them (plus the pros and cons of each) still leaves me scratching my head at the discrepancy in tier placement. The difference in their abilities is very slight imo.
Do these suiciding Weezings and Magnetons even exist?
Weezing doesn't learn Selfdestruct until level 43. As far as I know, there are NO trainers in this game that use a Weezing at this level, and there are no wild Weezings at that level either, so unless there are some trainers that use TMs that I don't know about, I don't think there are any Weezings in this game capable of blowing up on you.
Same with Magneton, who can't learn Selfdestruct or Explosion by any method.
Unless I'm mistaken, the only Pokemon used by trainers that are at a high enough level to have learned these moves are Voltorb and Electrode, who have terrible Attack stats and aren't really going to bother Sandslash. Other than that, you have Geodude and Graveler in Victory Road, who are weak to Sandslash's STAB.
I really don't get the hype about blocking suicide moves.
- Status