Data Pokemon Sun/Moon Battle Mechanics Research

So I know that if a fire/flying type uses Burn Up, it becomes ???/Flying type, and then if it roosts it stays as ???/Flying type but is grounded. That's all well and weird, but can someone confirm whether Air Balloon, Telekinesis, Magnet Rise, and Levitate would allow a Pokemon in this peculiar situation to stay afloat, so to speak?
What's the difference between a ???/flying type and a plain flying type?
 

Marty

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So then the following post was wrong all along?
Well, I've already mentioned it earlier in the thread, which I'm pretty sure you've seen since I quoted you in that post and we've discussed the related Reflect Type shenanigans before.
It was already known that Moltres after a Burn Up didn't become Normal type during Roost, since the "typeless" type is still its primary type. [...]
 
Well, I've already mentioned it earlier in the thread, which I'm pretty sure you've seen since I quoted you in that post and we've discussed the related Reflect Type shenanigans before.
So let me see if I've understood correctly:
  • After Moltres uses Burn Up, Reflect Type becomes Flying
  • After Moltres uses Burn Up and Roost, Reflect Type fails
  • After Trick-Or-Treat Moltres uses Burn Up and Roost, Reflect Type becomes Normal/Ghost
(I don't think this is what the sim does...)
 
  • After Moltres uses Burn Up, Reflect Type becomes Flying
  • After Moltres uses Burn Up and Roost, Reflect Type fails
  • After Trick-Or-Treat Moltres uses Burn Up and Roost, Reflect Type becomes Normal/Ghost
But after the Trick-Or-Treat Burn Up Moltres without Roost, do you get Flying/Ghost or Normal/Flying/Ghost?

Meanwhile, I've been looking at Beat Up, partly with an eye to its compatibility with Instruct. The current code on the sim checks each team member on each hit, skipping those that are statused, except that the user is never skipped in Gen 5 or later. Would it be a problem to calculate the list of team members before the first hit? The only case I can think of where it would make a difference is in a double battle where your first slot uses Beat Up on your second slot (this is apparently popular with Whimsicott and Terrakion). If your first slot happens to have Poison Touch it could theoretically poison your second slot before it gets a chance to take part in the Beat Up...
 

Marty

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Double posting because this is big news.

Aurora Veil doesn't actually "stack" with Reflect / Light Screen. They can be active at the same time because they have different effect codes, but the damage formula only takes one of them into consideration because its effect seems to literally be Reflect and Light Screen's effects together. I looked around and apparently the Japanese community has known about this since the third week the games were out! Implementing this on PS right now.
 
Double posting because this is big news.

Aurora Veil doesn't actually "stack" with Reflect / Light Screen. They can be active at the same time because they have different effect codes, but the damage formula only takes one of them into consideration because its effect seems to literally be Reflect and Light Screen's effects together. I looked around and apparently the Japanese community has known about this since the third week the games were out! Implementing this on PS right now.
Oh this is going to be quite the hit in lower tiers.

But how did we miss it in the first place? I'm sure someone tested it... or it was just checking if both could be active.

It's so odd I'm betting it's actually a glitch. Pokemon tends to have more explicit checks for things that don't stack IIRC.
 

Nexus

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We've missed things for way longer like the whole body slam bit concerning gen 1 crystal_ found a while back or battle videos in emerald and their application in rng abuse. Goes to show there's always more to find out even after we've ripped the games to shred and looking to other communities for their info while doing our own work. Thanks Marty I've added the above to the OP.
 
Double posting because this is big news.

Aurora Veil doesn't actually "stack" with Reflect / Light Screen. They can be active at the same time because they have different effect codes, but the damage formula only takes one of them into consideration because its effect seems to literally be Reflect and Light Screen's effects together. I looked around and apparently the Japanese community has known about this since the third week the games were out! Implementing this on PS right now.
Quick question: Now that you are fixing Showdown can someone fix that Zygarde 10% learns Iron Tail and other tutor moves? Because you can't get them in the game
 
DaWoblefet mentioned to me that Assist will fail if the only move it can call is Shell Trap, and I notice that the sim already blocks Sleep Talk from calling Shell Trap, so does that in fact apply to all moves that call other moves?
 
Heh, answering my own questions from the OP here: Instruct fails when attempting to force the use of any rampage (Thrash), charge (Dig), or recharge (Hyper Beam) move. Sadly, the Charge -> double Electric attack trick I thought of doesn't actually work out that way; only the first one has its power doubled.
Edit: Also, I noticed this a while ago but I now see it hasn't been posted in this thread: Instruct causes the move used to use another PP.

Stomping Tantrum gets its power doubled after every "But it failed!" scenario I've tested so far, which includes both types of move failure (those that activate Protean and those that don't). Launching moves into immunities and no target also triggers the boost, but launching moves into Protect does not.
Do moves used through Dancer or Instruct count as the last move used? What about moves called by other moves such as through Assist, or moves reflected by Magic Bounce? Does the move have to fail against every target in a Double Battle, or just one?
 
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Do the following moves animate when they fail under certain conditions?
  • Aromatherapy: Nothing gets cured and/or an active ally negates the effect of the move on themselves with Sap Sipper.
  • Block: The target can't be trapped.
  • Defog: The target's evasion can't go any lower and there's nothing to clear.
  • Flower Shield: There are Grass types to hit, but their defense stat is already maxed so the move doesn't actually affect them.
  • Guard Swap: Neither the user or the target has a relevant boost to be swapped.
  • Heal Bell: Same as Aromatherapy, but replace Sap Sipper with Soundproof.
  • Mean Look: Same as Block.
  • Power Swap: Same as Guard Swap.
  • Spider Web: Same as Block.
  • Strength Sap: The target has maxed its attack stat out and has the ability Contrary, or has an ability that prevents its attack stat from being lowered, or either of those cases while the user has full HP, or the target's attack stat is protected by Flower Veil and the target has the ability Liquid Ooze.

Edited out questions that were answered below already, but I'd still like confirmation on the rest of these.
 
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Marty

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Also, Feather Dance has the "mystery" flag, which causes it not to animate when used on an ally. Dancer is known not to copy dance moves when they don't animate (not currently implemented on Showdown), so does Dancer copy Feather Dance if it's used on an ally and the move successfully lowers the target's attack?
You seem to have read that post backwards. Moves with the "mystery" flag do animate when used on allies, and those without do not. Also, Dancer does activate when you attack your ally with Fiery Dance or Revelation Dance, which don't animate, so "having an animation" is a bad metric for determining whether it activates or not. Whatever I said the other day is more accurate; successful against at least one target.
 

DragonWhale

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Alright so this probably doesn't affect any metagame due to how bad Regigias is, but Slow Start halves damage from special Z-moves lol (It doesn't affect regular special attacks as usual).

Video on twitter: https://twitter.com/godevening2369/status/924279566448783362

Calc shows that Z-Earth Power should OHKO Mega Gengar, but does a little over half instead. The second video (in the replies) shows Mega Gengar getting OHKOed after Slow Start wears off.
 
Something that I came across in game which doesn't seem to be the same on the simulator is the interaction between Clear Body and Parting Shot. From my experience if a non Mold Breaker Pokemon uses Parting Shot on a Pokemon with Clear Body, they are forced to stay in and the move fails completely. I did some testing with my cartridge and with my friends as well and it seems like the case is consistent. On Showdown, while the drops do not happen the Pokemon is still allowed to switch. Figured I should let you all know to get this fixed as quickly as possible.
 
Something that I came across in game which doesn't seem to be the same on the simulator is the interaction between Clear Body and Parting Shot. From my experience if a non Mold Breaker Pokemon uses Parting Shot on a Pokemon with Clear Body, they are forced to stay in and the move fails completely. I did some testing with my cartridge and with my friends as well and it seems like the case is consistent. On Showdown, while the drops do not happen the Pokemon is still allowed to switch. Figured I should let you all know to get this fixed as quickly as possible.
do you know if this also applies to other moves that drop stats in addition to another effect? in other words, does clear body stop defog from removing hazards?
 
Something that I came across in game which doesn't seem to be the same on the simulator is the interaction between Clear Body and Parting Shot. From my experience if a non Mold Breaker Pokemon uses Parting Shot on a Pokemon with Clear Body, they are forced to stay in and the move fails completely. I did some testing with my cartridge and with my friends as well and it seems like the case is consistent. On Showdown, while the drops do not happen the Pokemon is still allowed to switch. Figured I should let you all know to get this fixed as quickly as possible.
Reported on the previous page, and in fact it's caused by anything that causes both stat changes to fail to take effect. Even something as simple as using Parting Shot seven times in a row against the same opponent with no intervening stat boosts, the seventh one will fail (since the stats have already bottomed out) and you don't get to switch.

If only one of the stats can be changed (such as the opponent staying in to use three Draco Meteors and then you Parting Shot them, or if they have Hyper Cutter), it still applies that one stat change, and you still get to switch.