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Pokemon Unfit for UU Analyses

Discussion in 'Locked / Outdated Analyses' started by Oglemi, Jun 6, 2011.

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  1. cartercr

    cartercr

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    My apologies for not giving reasoning.

    I think that Persian is viable in the metagame for the following reasons:

    1) Sleep

    Persian is one of the fastest sleep inducers (through Hypnosis) though the accuracy of Hypnosis can be shaky, Persian is one of the best users of it.

    2) Sweeping Capabilities

    Persian has the amazing ability Technician, and is capable of using it to sweep though many teams. It can boost its lackluster stats through use of Nasty Plot or a Choice Band.
  2. Omicron

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    Lol just use Ambipom it has higher Attack, same Speed, better movepool, and Technician to boot. Also has Nasty Plot AND Baton Pass, just no Hypnosis (but seriously who cares lol).

    sorry dude that ain't happenin
  3. cartercr

    cartercr

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    Ambipom does have Nasty Plot, but it has no moveset to use it with. Though Ambipom would definitely use a Physical set better, Persian has Ambipom beat when it comes to Special sets.
  4. Snunch

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    No. Persian has a base 65 special attack and can't take a hit. It has no sweeping ability at all and relying on hypnosis is asking to lose.
  5. Ahhhhhh......Clefable.

    Ahhhhhh......Clefable.

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    What does he need outside of Swift and Water Pulse, which have pretty great coverage together?


    And what does Persian have that Ambipom doesn't? Pay Day?


    Ambipom has everything a Technician-user could ask for, so your point is moot.
  6. cartercr

    cartercr

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    +2 Water Pulse vs 252/0 Donphan: 127.6% - 150.5%
    +2 Swift vs 4/0 Alakazam: 111.1% - 131.3%
    +2 Swift vs 4/0 Heracross: 84.4% - 99.7%
    +2 Water Pulse vs 4/0 Arcanine: 121.7% - 143.5%
    +2 Water Pulse vs 4/0 Victini: 95.3% - 112.3%
    +2 Swift vs 252/0 Slowbro: 74.6% - 87.8%
    +2 Swift vs 252/4 Hitmontop: 73.4% - 86.8%

    Damage calculations against the top 7 Pokemon in UU. This is assuming only running Swift and Water Pulse.
  7. Lesser Smaug

    Lesser Smaug

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    Those calculations look impressive, but I doubt Persian will get time to set up with its mediocre defenses, lack of resistances, and terribly inaccurate sleep move. I agree with everyone else; Persian is not deserving of a UU analysis.

    Hitmontop can use Mach Punch or STAB moves to kill Persian. Alakazam outruns Persian and crushes it with Psychic. Arcanine can use ExtremeSpeed to strike Persian first. The other Pokemon can run a Choice Scarf, save for Slowbro. And don't just look at the top 7: Empoleon, for instance, resists Water / Normal and screws you with its STAB moves.
  8. Endorfins

    Endorfins Your Worst Nightmare
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    I don't know why Cinccino can't get an analysis :(

    1, Technician boosted moves in tail slap, rock blast and bullet seed and wake up slap
    2, Excellent speed
    3, Decent Attack with moves that can break through subs (think froslass)
    4, Super Cute

    I'm definitely willing to do an analysis for Cinccino
  9. Keiran

    Keiran

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    I can't find Misdreavus on the analysis index or here,

    I'm wondering if Misdreavus is worthy of an analysis, I've been using it as a physically defensive spinblocker, with investment and Eviolite, Misdreavus gets around the equivalent of around 113 base defence and has a lot of support options, like WoW, Heal bell and Thunder Wave and semi-reliable recovery in Pain Split also, Misdreavus beats the tiers most popular Spinners, Donhpan and Hitmontop courtesy of Levitate and Ghost-typing respectively.
  10. AccidentalGreed

    AccidentalGreed HOMERUN, CABRONES
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    Does Misdreavus have any other notable advantages over, say, Cofagrigus or Dusclops? If there's any justification for Misdreavus getting an analysis among other bulky Ghost-type Pokemon, it would be that it is the only usable Ghost-type that can spread paralysis and support teammates via Heal Bell, in addition to having Levitate.

    I'll challenge with some calculations:

    Life Orb Aerodactyl Stone Edge vs. Eviolite 252/252+ Misdreavus: 37.3% - 44.4%
    Life Orb Aerodactyl Stone Edge vs. Eviolite 252/252+ Dusclops: 25.7% - 30.6%

    That's a pretty huge difference if you ask me.
  11. TM13IceBeam

    TM13IceBeam

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    using the same logic, Haunter deserves an analysis for beating Donphan and Hitmontop due to levitate and ghost-typing

    no, no just no. as AG has posted dusclops is way better and if you need a specially defensive spinblocker just use mismagius herself
  12. Duckman

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    Been using Rampardos in UU as a Stealth Rocker. He and Pinsir are the only SRers in the game that can bypass Xatu and Espeon's annoying Magic Bounce, with Mold Breaker, and that niche alone makes a mention of it necessary. Pinsir isn't as good at it because he doesn't have the move slot, when Swords Dance is his best set. However, it still deserves a mention as a slash in the last slot of the Choice Band set, and Magic Bounce should be talked about in the text, because it is a unique niche.

    But this is about Rampardos, who doesn't have a UU article at all. This line in Rampardos's RU evalution: "Rampardos can use Stealth Rock with its ability to force switches, but Rampardos is better off simply attacking to outright KO any threat that stands in its way." is on the right path, but doesn't give him enough credit. The way I play him is by judging which would hurt the enemy team more, a Head Smash, an Earthquake, or a Stealth Rock. Often, if they lead with something weak to Rock, I will simply Head Smash, and never get around to Stealth Rock.

    However, having SR on the set, when HS + EQ gives fine coverage, is extremely viable. I use it when I expect a switch into something that will take little damage from either of my attacks, or when their entire team seems weak to SR and it would just be better to use it. Like whoever wrote that line said, Rampardos is a good Stealth Rocker because he has the ability to force switches, even with his low defenses. They expect Choice Scarf so they don't always attack right away. Having this set in the metagame also makes Choice sets stronger due to unpredictability. Rampardos additionally has Dragon Tail, which I've used every once in a while to get rid of a pokemon with high defenses to rack up SR damage (especially Flygon who takes some damage from EQ but not tons).

    I'm not sure what the current rules concerning Quick Claw are on Smogon because I've been playing on the Pokemon Online server, but that's the item I use. 20% chance can win games, but when it doesn't activate, at least you can still switch moves. It might seem gimmicky, but it's really very effective. I guess Red Card is an option if that's banned - Leftovers won't help much as you'll almost always be 2HKO'd, but with HP EVs, he can usually survive at least one attack, getting a free switch for your enemy into something that has a very high chance of being unable to take a Head Smash well.

    However, I could also see throwing it on the Choice Scarf set. I think that having 3 equally viable sets will make Rampardos less predictable and lands him an easy spot in UU... and let me just end this with, Head Smash will 1HKO-2HKO a LOT of things in UU.

    The set is basically 252 HP/Atk, Adamant @ Quick Claw/Red Card: Head Smash, Earthquake, Stealth Rock, Dragon Tail

    (252 Def or SpD instead of HP works as well, I've been experimenting with all. His starting HP is more decent than his defenses so either one can help him survive a hit from that side a lot better. Right now in the team builder, I noticed I have it as Defense.)

    Or 252 Atk/Spe @ Choice Scarf, Jolly/Adamant: Head Smash, Earthquake, Fire Punch, Stealth Rock/Zen Headbutt

    This is a replay of me using Rampardos in UU to great effect against a decent team of Registeel / Flygon / Victini / Darmanitan / Azelf / Milotic - http://pokemon.aesoft.org/replay-Baron-Corm-vs-WarwickTBH--2012-03-19

    I begin by Stealth Rocking against his Registeel, as I decide that hitting his Victini and Darmanitan for 25% is more important than hurting his wall. I then Dragon Tail as I expect a Flygon switchin, but he Toxics me instead. Dragon Tail brings in Darmanitan, who expects me to switch, so he Focus Punches, while I kill him. Later in the game, my Rampardos faces off against Registeel again, and easily gets a 2HKO with Earthquake. He brings in Milotic, who expects me to be faster than him, so he Recovers to let Toxic kill me. Unlike what he expected, I was slower, and would have put a large dent in him, but Head Smash misses.

    This game is a good example of how a Stealth Rocker with high attack can be less predictable and more useful than a Stealth Rocking wall such as Registeel.

    P.S., I've been using the Strategydex a lot, and the phrases "middling speed" and "nothing to scoff at" are in at least 25% of the articles. Might be good to start getting away from them. I even saw Golem's speed called "middling". He's just plain slow, really.
  13. Snunch

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    In a metagame where incredibly sturdy rock resists are some of the most seen pokemon (Swampert, Rhyperior, Hitmontop), I can't see this working. Defensively, Rampardos' horrible bulk means that it can't counter the pokemon that a rock type is expected to; CB Stoutland just outright 2hkos it with Frustration. Offensively, it can't break through common walls, defensively it can't switch in on resisted hits, Rampardos really just has nothing going for it. Setting up SR through Xatu isn't really a big deal in UU, you can find better pokemon to do so such as Rhyperior, Empoleon, and Aerodactyl.

    Not fit for an analysis.
  14. Duckman

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    Wut? You clearly have never tried him. All he does is break through common walls. If you're trying to Head Smash a pokemon with a Rock resist on the set that I gave with so many other options, you're doing it wrong.

    Also, Aerodactyl can't take a CB STAB Frustration either. He also happens to be weaker offensively, and with much of his speed wasted in UU tier.

    Also, Rhyperior can't even reach decent speeds with a Scarf, he needs to spend a turn on Rock Polish to get there. He also has 25 less base Attack. If you want to even get close to the power of Head Smash, you have to use Rock Wrecker, because Stone Edge has 50 less base power. Rhyperior might be able to wall normal hits, but he's weak to just about everything else a physical or special attacker can do.

    Also, all three of the Stealth Rockers you mentioned also get shut down by Swampert and Hitmontop.

    I don't think any of your points are relevant. I'm not trying to say the pokemon you mentioned are bad, they have their uses, but Rampardos does too, and he isn't strictly outclassed by any of them.
  15. Tomahawk

    Tomahawk Fuck you, pay me
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    Assuming Adamant, using your Scarf set:

    252Atk -1 Mold Breaker Rampardos (+Atk) Head Smash vs 252HP/252Def Leftovers Hitmontop (+Def): 26% - 30% (80 - 94 HP). Guaranteed 4HKO.

    252Atk Mold Breaker Rampardos (+Atk) Head Smash vs 252HP/80Def Leftovers Bronzong (Neutral): 39% - 46% (132 - 156 HP). Guaranteed 3HKO.

    252Atk Mold Breaker Rampardos (+Atk) Head Smash vs 160HP/0Def Leftovers Rhyperior (Neutral): 31% - 36% (128 - 151 HP). Guaranteed 4HKO.

    252Atk Mold Breaker Rampardos (+Atk) Head Smash vs 240HP/16Def Leftovers Swampert (Neutral): 42% - 50% (172 - 203 HP). Guaranteed 3HKO.

    252Atk Mold Breaker Rampardos (+Atk) Head Smash vs 4HP/0Def Leftovers Cobalion (Neutral): 19% - 23% (64 - 76 HP). Guaranteed 6HKO.

    And many more.

    Edit: you're choiced. If you're gonna predict Rhyperior / Cobalion switchin, the opponent can just switch to a Ground immune/resist and setup. The others take Earthquake easily, better than Head Smash actually.
  16. Duckman

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    Head Smashing pokemon weak to Ground and resistant to Rock for what reason?

    Apparently we are talking in edits so to avoid double post-

    Assuming your opponent has better prediction than you isn't a reason to not make a UU article for a pokemon. Switching a Conkeldurr into a Terrakion when the Terrakion expected a Gengar will cause him to use a resisted attack, making Terrakion RU if Choiced? I don't think so. My main set isn't even Choiced. Earthquake destroys 3 of the pokemon you listed (Bronzong is weak to Mold Breaker if you forgot), and hey, if you use Choice Band instead of Scarf, your calculations have shown you can even kill a Swampert with bad prediction.

    Whether you guys choose to think about or test it or not is up to you, I don't see any sense in any reasons given thus far, and my only intention is to improve the strategy articles. I have no motivation to sit here and argue against flawed logic.
  17. SJCrew

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    If you want an extremely powerful scarfer that kills itself with its best move, try Darmanitan. It's way better than Rampardos at everything (besides trolling, but why troll when you can kill).

    Also, we have better Pokemon with SR + Head Smah like Aggron. Ignoring recoil and having defenses + resistances is actually a pretty big deal, enough to keep Rampardos out of a tier above NU two gens straight. There's literally no reason to use him right now unless you are trying to lose.
  18. Silvershadow234

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    No Zangoose? Zangoose is insanely powerful after the Toxic Orb boost, both as a cleaner and as a wallbreaker with SD. I'll just show you some calcs for the SD set:

    +2 Toxic Boost Facade vs. 252/252 Impish Eviolite Gligar: 73%-87%, easy 2HKO
    +2 Toxic Boost Facade vs. 252/252 Bold Slowbro: 90%-106%, possible 1HKO, definite 1HKO with SR up
    +2 Toxic Boost Night Slash vs. 252/252 Bold Cofagrigus: 60%-71%

    These are three of the sturdiest walls in the game-and are all 2HKO'd. Not even Swords Dance Heracross can do this, as he is walled hard by both Cofagrigus and Gligar(Stone Edge does 36%-43% to the mentioned Cofagrigus when Heracross has 252 attack ev's and a neutral nature, and Stone Edge does just 29%-35% to the mentioned Gligar). Even if the Heracross has Guts activated, it still does just 37%-43% to standard Gligar, so even if it hits max damage twice after Stealth Rock the Gligar can just Roost off the damage and stall him out until the burn or Toxic damage kills him.

    That's not all Zangoose can do though-he makes a great cleaner as well. Quick Attack is now one of the most powerful priority attacks in the metagame, and Facade is still ridiculously strong(210bp after STAB-it gets boosted by status). Combine this with Close Combat and Night Slash/Shadow Claw, and he is very difficult to stop if Spikes are up and the opponent's team has been substantially weakened.
  19. breh

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    Although I can't say much about the viability of Zangoose in UU (though I suspect that it's not that bad tbh), you can't assume +2. In NU, the best set is known to be Quick Attack / Facade / Night Slash / Close Combat. Zangoose needs those four slots and setup is bound to end in death when you're on a timer.
  20. Silvershadow234

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    I've been trying out that cleaner set as well, and I agree that it is probably his best set-but if you can set-up, the SD set can wreck a lot of walls. But yeah, you're probably right.
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