Project Neverused

[tehy]

The point of fling is to get rid of the item, i assume? I think toxic is fine though, cripples walls, and when do you really need to get rid of your choice item?

 

[jake]

The point of fling is to get rid of the item, i assume? I think toxic is fine though, cripples walls, and when do you really need to get rid of your choice item?

Fling gives Sawk a 90 BP Dark-type move with which to hit the bulky Psychic- and Ghost-types that come in on it. Fist Plate + Fling is nothing revolutionary, nor is it that spectacular. Even with an Adamant nature, you're only doing 39.26 - 46.18% to standard Musharna and 43.82 - 51.85% to standard Misdreavus, and you can only use it once. It's a neat trick but really nothing worthwhile.

(especialy when common switches don't even care: weezing, heal bell misdreavus)

Weezing is unpopular currently and is easily taken advantage of. Not all Misdreavus carry Heal Bell, either, and when they do it's just a free switch for you. ~

 

[TLCJR4LIFE]

Yeah pretty much, that Magmar set is pretty much a gimmick with surprise factor but perhaps not a top level sweeper.

As far as your Lampent set, I like it, but I also like how you pair it with Serperior as well. I've been lauding that particular SubCM Serperior(reminds me a LOT of UU's Raikou Sub CM) as one of the best sweepers in the tier and Lampent has great synergy with him.

 

[Sweet Jesus]

If you really want to use Fling, Fist plate is a superior item for that because with a Choice item it has a fucking awful 10 BP that won't really do anything, but with a Fist Plate it gets a pretty good 90 BP, and a boost to his Close Combat.

The point of fling is to get rid of the item, i assume? I think toxic is fine though, cripples walls, and when do you really need to get rid of your choice item?

Yes the point here is not to do damage and gain coverage, it's just to get rid of choiced items negative effect at the cost of 1 turn. It is quite awkward at first glance but so is choiced toxic. I'll invent a situation here to show how it could be useful (there are plenty of other similar situations possible this one is just to show it can be useful). Say your stuck with sawk as your last pokémon and your opponent has an audino on the feild and a muk in backup. You won't want to lock yourself in any move. You could still use fling while probably getting toxic from audino, you are now free to close combat the audino and earthquake muk (maybe muk resists the EQ or can shadow sneak on -1 def +toxic but that's not the point, it's just to show how it works). Fling can also be used on an obvious switch (in the same way as toxic usualy) once everything that sawk needed choice scarf to outspeed or choice band to kill is dead.

The move is very situational, I'm not trying to prove the opposite, but so is toxic on a choiced frail pokémon.

 

[jake]

Yes the point here is not to do damage and gain coverage, it's just to get rid of choiced items negative effect at the cost of 1 turn. It is quite awkward at first glance but so is choiced toxic. I'll invent a situation here to show how it could be useful (there are plenty of other similar situations possible this one is just to show it can be useful). Say your stuck with sawk as your last pokémon and your opponent has an audino on the feild and a muk in backup. You won't want to lock yourself in any move. You could still use fling while probably getting toxic from audino, you are now free to close combat the audino and earthquake muk (maybe muk resists the EQ or can shadow sneak on -1 def +toxic but that's not the point, it's just to show how it works). Fling can also be used on an obvious switch (in the same way as toxic usualy) once everything that sawk needed choice scarf to outspeed or choice band to kill is dead.

The move is very situational, I'm not trying to prove the opposite, but so is toxic on a choiced frail pokémon.

Such a thing is still achieved by using a Fist Plate instead of a Choice Item. You retain the ability to choose moves and bluff a Choice item, if you want. You're right, Fling can be situationally useful, but really the situations in which it WOULD be useful are very rare. Toxic has just as much application than Fling, and even more so because it can wear down on those bulky Psychic- or Ghost-types that commonly switch in for another team member imo. If you get yourself stuck in a hole like you pointed out, then Fling with a Choice item could possibly be useful, but really I'd rather just rely on my playing skill to never get caught in something like that.

To summarize: If you're using Fling, Fist Plate is infinitely better, and if you're determined to use Fling on CB or Scarf Sawk, then good luck finding a good situation to use it in. It's a matter of choice like you pointed out but I find the situations that it's useful in to be very rare and easily avoided if you play well. Toxic just seems to be the superior option 100% of the time.

 

[No Luck Involved]

I can see Fling being situationally useful for something like Choice Scarf. It has extra speed over other items, and when the time comes that you don't need it anymore you can gain coverage. Fist Plate is not beating Misdreavus or Musharna or Weezing or bulky Exeggutor so its uses are very limited. It seems like Choice Band is better in all cases if you want to break walls. Fist Plate seems more like a variation on Expert Belt, which lives on its surprise value but still gets walled by all the things that walled it before. Scarf Fling may give it something genuinely different.

 

[Django]

Well, with Fist Plate and a bit of prior damage / hazards it can actually beat Musharna:

252Atk Fist Plate Sawk (Neutral) Close Combat vs 240HP/252Def Eviolite Musharna (+Def): 21% - 24% (92 - 108 HP). Guaranteed 5HKO.

252Atk Sawk (Neutral) Fling vs 240HP/252Def Eviolite Musharna (+Def): 51% - 60% (222 - 262 HP). Guaranteed 2HKO.

This is provided Musharna switches in of course. Assuming average damage you do 23% + 56% - 6% = 73%. So if you can hit Musharna once, switch out and force it out before it uses Moonlight + you have Stealth Rock up, you can effectively beat it. Its probably not the most useful set, but certainly an effective Musharna lure.

Similarly with Misdravus:

252Atk Fist Plate Sawk (Neutral) Stone Edge vs 252HP/252Def Eviolite Levitate Misdreavus (+Def): 21% - 25% (70 - 83 HP). Guaranteed 5HKO.

252Atk Sawk (Neutral) Fling vs 252HP/252Def Eviolite Levitate Misdreavus (+Def): 55% - 66% (180 - 214 HP). Guaranteed 2HKO.

Hit it on the switch with Stealth Rock up and you are doing 96% to it on average, not bad at all.

 

[Sweet Jesus]

252Atk Sawk (Neutral) Fling vs 240HP/252Def Eviolite Musharna (+Def): 51% - 60% (222 - 262 HP). Guaranteed 2HKO.

First off, musharna is much more likely to be holding leftovers than eviolite (if it's a way of saying no item at all just ignore this). Second and more important: fist plate fling is a 1 use move so there's no 2HKO's possible. My set was really meant to get rid of choice item late game, fist plate seems pretty outclassed by choice when it comes to sawk's main role.

 

[Django]

Eviolite was a mistake, it does nothing to effect the calc. Furthermore, read my post. You hit it with Close Combat, and ideally it has taken prior damage, then you KO with Fling. Its not meant to 2HKO.

 

[jake]

First off, musharna is much more likely to be holding leftovers than eviolite (if it's a way of saying no item at all just ignore this). Second and more important: fist plate fling is a 1 use move so there's no 2HKO's possible. My set was really meant to get rid of choice item late game, fist plate seems pretty outclassed by choice when it comes to sawk's main role.

The idea is that Fist Plate Sawk with Fling is a lure for Misdreavus + Musharna. Fist Plate is indeed inferior to CB Sawk in general, unless you're trying to lure those Pokemon. It's not entirely outclassed, it's just a more specified role.

 

[watashi]

Exeggutor (M) @ Life Orb
Trait: Chlorophyll
EVs: 80 Atk / 252 SAtk / 176 Spd
Rash Nature (+SAtk, -SDef)
- Leaf Storm
- Low Kick
- Psychic
- Sleep Powder

This Exeggutor plays a lot like the Choice Specs set except it has the ability to defeat common checks such as Probopass, Lickilicky, and Cryogonal through the use of Low Kick, which comes off a surprisingly high 245 attack stat. Probopass and Cryogonal are both OHKO'ed on the switch while Specially Defensive is guaranteed to be 2HKO'ed with Rocks up.

Additionally, Life Orb helps to bluff Choice Specs if you have not yet fired off an attack. Using Sleep Powder on the first turn is a good idea since the opponent will likely switch out after that, giving you a free shot on the incoming Pokemon. This can catch opponents off guard as they try to anticipate which Pokemon you will switch in after firing off a "Choice'd Sleep Powder".

The EV's are used to outspeed standard Golem, which enables you to put it to bed before it can use Stealth Rock, unless it's holding the uncommon Lum Berry. Max special attack makes sure Exeggutor can hurt just about everything with a Life Orb Leaf Storm. The rest is dumped into attack to make Low Kick hit as hard as possible. A Rash nature is used to preserve Exeggutor's attack, speed, and decent physical bulk.

 

[Full2Half]

Wow, I really like this set. Ive been tryng to think of how to incorperate his decent attack into a set, but this seems nice, im going to be sure to try it out.

 

[Straw Hat]

sorry if it seems that i am being a know it all, but that set is basically the gen4 all out attacker with less speed and more attaack. but still, great set.

 

[Molk]

Exeggutor (M) @ Life Orb
Trait: Chlorophyll
EVs: 80 Atk / 252 SAtk / 176 Spd
Rash Nature (+SAtk, -SDef)
- Leaf Storm
- Low Kick
- Psychic
- Sleep Powder

This Exeggutor plays a lot like the Choice Specs set except it has the ability to defeat common checks such as Probopass, Lickilicky, and Cryogonal through the use of Low Kick, which comes off a surprisingly high 245 attack stat. Probopass and Cryogonal are both OHKO'ed on the switch while Specially Defensive is guaranteed to be 2HKO'ed with Rocks up.

Additionally, Life Orb helps to bluff Choice Specs if you have not yet fired off an attack. Using Sleep Powder on the first turn is a good idea since the opponent will likely switch out after that, giving you a free shot on the incoming Pokemon. This can catch opponents off guard as they try to anticipate which Pokemon you will switch in after firing off a "Choice'd Sleep Powder".

The EV's are used to outspeed standard Golem, which enables you to put it to bed before it can use Stealth Rock, unless it's holding the uncommon Lum Berry. Max special attack makes sure Exeggutor can hurt just about everything with a Life Orb Leaf Storm. The rest is dumped into attack to make Low Kick hit as hard as possible. A Rash nature is used to preserve Exeggutor's attack, speed, and decent physical bulk.

Great set!, deals with a lot of eggy's checks rather easily, such as cryogonal, licki, and probopass. I actually tried a similar set on a sun team with nature power to wreck things like flareon, Lampent and magmortar. (it also bypassed sucker punch!)

anyways, speaking of nature power/earthquake, earthquake is an underrated option on another pokemon as well. This Pokemon is Magmortar!

Magmortar (M) @ Life Orb
Trait: Vital Spirit
EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
Hasty Nature (+Spd, -Def)
- Fire Blast
- Thunderbolt
- Focus Blast
- Earthquake

This is the standard magmortar set, except for one thing, it gives up the ability to easily defeat altaria for a coverage move to defeat its usual counters such as flareon, camerupt, and lampent! Quagsire is 2hkoed by focua blast or focus blast+fire blast, only leaving altaria and grumpig uncovered. here are some calcs of magmortar EQ against its usual counters.

227 Atk vs 166 Def & 334 HP (100 Base Power): 254 - 300 (76.05% - 89.82%) 4 attack LO magmortar EQ vs flareon


227 Atk vs 176 Def & 344 HP (100 Base Power): 181 - 214 (52.62% - 62.21%) 4 attack LO magmortar EQ vs solid rock camerupt


227 Atk vs 234 Def & 324 HP (100 Base Power): 180 - 214 (55.56% - 66.05%) 4 attack LO magmortar EQ vs eviolite lampent

349 Atk vs 166 Def & 394 HP (120 Base Power): 234 - 276 (59.39% - 70.05%) LO magmortar focus blast vs quagsire

349 Atk vs 166 Def & 394 HP (120 Base Power): 175 - 207 (44.42% - 52.54%) LO magmortar fire blast vs quagsire

pretty nice imo, things like cross chop and mach punch could be worth looking into also

 

[erisia]

Mach Punch Magmortar is very interesting, having an immunity to Sucker Punch when using it is extremely useful, and it can 2HKO Absol with a neutral nature if I remember correctly. It also has other niche uses such as revenging 1HP Sawk that would otherwise outspeed and beat you. I wouldn't say it's amazing, but if you're not using the Hidden Powers when you run them, it's a viable alternative.

 

[ebeast]

Let me tell you guys a story about a little Dragon that could. Her name was Altaria and she was constantly neglected in favor of more popular Dragons such as Dragonite and Salamence who constantly put her down and made her the laughing stock of OU. Even now that Altaria had finally found a place she can call her own in NU, there were still Pokemon such as Tangela, Weezing, and Regirock who would right down break out laughing as Altaria Dances and becomes put off into an Outrage.

To attempt to stand out, our dear Altaria had no choice but to become a hipster. Oh, and what a hipster she became. Adorned with her new stylish Spectacles Altaria comes back to haunt these bullies and put them in their place. Tangela, Weezing, and Regirock come to her like flies expecting to put a swift to her Dances only to get smacked around by an outstanding source of hipster magic concentrated into a Draconic blast of showering Meteors. From that day on our little Cloud Dragon would keep her head up higher than ever before and nobody would ever mess with her every again...outside of flying Snowflakes. :/ The End....?

My story aside here is the set:

@Choice Specs

Trait: Natural Cure
EVs: 192 HP / 252 SAtk / 64 Spe
Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
- Draco Meteor
- Fire Blast
- Dragon Pulse / Hidden Power Ground
- Rest

Some of you that don't know the background, yes this set is onsite. However this set has always been underrated and it wasn't until recently when I managed to get SpecsTaria passed QC. Although the set has gained a respectable 8.5% increase from its previous .5% usage to 9% it is still a very rare set, which kind of strikes my fancy when I know full well that this is one of Altaria's best sets it can run. Not only does it take down its regular DD counters but it can actually counter them!! Quagsire, Tangela, and Weezing and hard counters to DD Altaria, but free switches for Draco spam for SpecsTaria. For this reason alone this set should be more popular, but the fact also stands that the only common Steel-type in NU is Probopass and maybe Bastiodon. Not much can resist Draco Meteor and only a few select Pokemon can actually take 2, and definitely not many after Stealth Rock.

List of Pokemon that can take 2 Specs Draco Meteors/Fire Blast after SR: SpD Hypno, SpD Gardevoir, SpD Lickilicky, SpD Lapras, SpD Cradily. SpD is listed before all of their names because if they run any other set outside of Specially Defensive they will get 2HKOed after Stealth Rock. Luckily for Altaria its not fighting alone. With the help of Choice Band Emboar or Choice Band Torterra it won't be long until the opponents defensive cores are broken. They allows for other Pokemon such as SD Samurott to freely come and sweep. Also to note that SpecsTaria does carry a decent amount of investment in bulk and has Natural Cure Rest and is best played as a bulky pivot attacker. SpecsTaria also happens to be a very reliable counter to SD Samurott as it can easily take a +2 LO Adamant Waterfall and retaliate with a Specs Draco that has a 100% chance of OHKOing.

CBoar shares better type synergy with Altaria than CBTerra but cannot freely switch into a Hypno like Torterra can. Even so CBoar can switch freely into Cryogonal to threaten it out while any Alomomola that it might have trouble with gets handled by SpecsTaria. To me this set is Altaria's best and I will likely not stop recommending this until it reaches 33+% usage.

 

[Raikaria]

Just saying, Wheezing is hardly a counter to DD Altaria [All it can do it Burn it, and can it can't repeat this. Altaria will just switch out and Natural Cure, and KO Wheezing next time] and all Tangela can do is Toxic or Leech Seed, which, again, Altaria can just switch away to rid itself of.

They're checks, because they only force Altaria out, and it can whittle them down over time. Quagsire, however, walls DD Altaria all day, however often it needs to, and can OHKO with Ice Beam.

Not knocking the set or anything, but not a lot actually can outright counter DD Altaria. I personally don't see the point in running it when the only thing that stops Altaria cold, Quagsire, isn't stopped by this set either unless you run HP Grass. [Tangela is handled better, however, by this set]

For a specs user, I'd just rather use Charizard or Magmortar, who both have disgusting power, and can run multiple other sets. This is just my personal take on it, however, and I'm personally such an advocate of DD Altaria that I'm hard to sway from it.

 

[jake]

Just saying, Wheezing is hardly a counter to DD Altaria [All it can do it Burn it, and can it can't repeat this. Altaria will just switch out and Natural Cure, and KO Wheezing next time] and all Tangela can do is Toxic or Leech Seed, which, again, Altaria can just switch away to rid itself of.

They're checks, because they only force Altaria out, and it can whittle them down over time. Quagsire, however, walls DD Altaria all day, however often it needs to, and can OHKO with Ice Beam.

Not knocking the set or anything, but not a lot actually can outright counter DD Altaria. I personally don't see the point in running it when the only thing that stops Altaria cold, Quagsire, isn't stopped by this set either unless you run HP Grass. [Tangela is handled better, however, by this set]

For a specs user, I'd just rather use Charizard or Magmortar, who both have disgusting power, and can run multiple other sets. This is just my personal take on it, however, and I'm personally such an advocate of DD Altaria that I'm hard to sway from it.

Tangela has a perfectly usable base 100 SpA. Admittedly, it would really prefer to have HP Ice to be threatening to Altaria but the combination of Leech Seed + HP as well as the potential Sleep Powder to force it out or Toxic to wear it down even more will really drain on Altaria's resources:

Tangela HP Ice vs standard DD Altaria: 196-232 (67.35 - 79.72%) -- 37.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
+2 LO Adamant Altaria Outrage vs standard Tangela: 162-192 (48.5 - 57.48%) -- 94.14% chance to 2HKO, 100% after SR

Even a +2 LO Outrage has a chance at not 2HKOing Tangela which is pretty awesome. HP Rock 2HKOes Altaria after SR damage, too, so it's certainly not a situation where Altaria wins no matter what. It doesn't do -poorly- against Tangela like a lot of other physical sweepers but yeah.

As far as SpecsTaria goes, it's one of those sets that I've wanted to use for a while now but I just... haven't gotten around to it. I never thought of Natural Cure Rest either and that sounds pretty awesome haha. Just curious, though; is it worth running enough Speed to outrun max neutral Samurott (176 Spe) so you don't even have to take a +2 Waterfall (or worry about Ice Beam, since special is getting more common)? Or does is the drop in bulk too important to overlook?

 

[Furai]

Electabuzz (M) @ Eviolite
Trait: Vital Spirit
EVs: 124 Atk / 168 SAtk / 216 Spd
Naive Nature (+Spd, -SDef)
- Substitute
- Focus Punch
- Thunderbolt
- Hidden Power [Ice]

fuk yes subpunch electabuzz. You've all probably seen me playtest this around. It's so fucking awesome. You lure in Lickilicky and Miltank and 2HKO both easily with Focus Punch after Stealth Rock. Lickilicky's Dragon Tail will not break Electabuzz's Substitute unless max damage. Thunderbolt and Hidden Power Ice is just sexy as hell in conjuction with Focus Punch. The EVs allow you to outspeed all non-Choice Scarf base 100's, 2HKO Lickilicky and Miltank after Stealth Rock, and the rest is dumped to Special Attack. Naive nature so you could take Dragon Tails better. Toxic Spikes fuck this set up, so Garbodor is a good teammate, because it also provides Spikes.

 

[No Luck Involved]

I can vouch for SpecsAltaria too. I think anyone who has used it will know just how powerful and useful it is. Draco Meteor is an auto KO button and you don't have to worry about resists most of the time. However Dragon Pulse is actually pretty weak and as good as DM is initially, a -2 Altaria is easily set up on by quite a lot of things. That's my only reservation (which sort of applies to all choice users). Give SpecsAltaria a solid defensive core to fall back on and it will devastate offensive teams one Pokemon at a time everytime!

 

[Raikaria]

Tangela has a perfectly usable base 100 SpA. Admittedly, it would really prefer to have HP Ice to be threatening to Altaria but the combination of Leech Seed + HP as well as the potential Sleep Powder to force it out or Toxic to wear it down even more will really drain on Altaria's resources:

Tangela HP Ice vs standard DD Altaria: 196-232 (67.35 - 79.72%) -- 37.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
+2 LO Adamant Altaria Outrage vs standard Tangela: 162-192 (48.5 - 57.48%) -- 94.14% chance to 2HKO, 100% after SR

Even a +2 LO Outrage has a chance at not 2HKOing Tangela which is pretty awesome. HP Rock 2HKOes Altaria after SR damage, too, so it's certainly not a situation where Altaria wins no matter what. It doesn't do -poorly- against Tangela like a lot of other physical sweepers but yeah.

How many Tangela actually run HP Ice, however? I'd say, but I can't load the moveset stats for some reason. I'm pretty sure it's somewhat low, however. I see most Tangela running HP Fire to deal with both Grass-types who stop Leech Seed, and Steel Types who stop Toxic, or HP Rock for Fire, Flying, and Bug types. There's not much reason to take HP Ice, unless you pretty much want to be a dedicated counter for Altaria.

Although, I must admit, I completely forgot and derped about Regenerator. With Regenerator Tangela can switch out and heal off Altaria's damage, in the same way Altaria can switch out and heal Tangela's status. So I guess unless you're stupid enough to let Altaria get to +2... or unlucky enough to get Criticaled, Tangela does 'soft-counter' Altaria, although it can't beat it until a last pokemon senario.

 

[No Luck Involved]

Nah most Tangela I have seen had HP Ice. HP Rock is only useful for hitting stuff on the switch and HP Fire is pretty useless in NU. HP Ice allows Tangela to hit Grass types as well as counter boosting Dragons such as Shelgon, Altaria and Fraxure. I think HP Ice is the standard on Tangela.

 

[Steamroll]

HP rock is mainly for people who hate Magmortar.

 

[Straw Hat]

Cradily (M) @ Leftovers
Trait: Storm Drain
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 Sp.D
Sassy Nature (+Sp.D,-Spe)
-Stone Edge
-Giga Drain/Energy Ball
-Rest/Recover
-Sleep Talk/Stealth Rock

My own twist on Cradily. this set allows Cradily to check Gorebyss, Magmortar, and other specially biased Pokemon. A +2 Gorebyss' Ice Beam does 69.1%~81.4% to 252/252 Cradily. A Magmortar's LO Fire Blast does 45.5%~53.7%, not even a 2HKO with Leftovers. Meanwhile, Cradily's Giga drain does 102.8%121.9% to a -1 0/0 Gorebyss and Cradily's Stone Edge does 86.6%~101.7% to a 0/0 Magmortar. Haunter's 252 LO Sludge Bomb does 44.1%~52.1%, while it 2HKOs with Stone Edge. The set has 2 options: it can either use Giga Drain (which makes Stealth Rok and Recover illegal) and use RestTalk or it can use Energy Ball, allowing it to use Stealth Rock and Recover. If you use SR+Recover, clerics are good partners. With both sets, a Pokemon that can sponge strong physical attacks is appreciated.

EDIT: @ Raikara, the moveset stats don't show the individual usages of the Hidden Power types.

 

[Zacharias]

Ludicolo (M) @ Life Orb/Leftovers
Trait: Swift Swim
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd
Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Swords Dance
- Drain Punch/Ice Punch
- Waterfall
- Bullet Seed

This is on the Smogon site, but this set is very rare to see. The idea of this set is to muscle past some of the various checks that Ludicolo has, as well as surprise factor.

Quite often will your opponent switch into a check after Ludicolo is sent out, you're almost guaranteed to get a SD, which with this set (not factoring Life Orb) will shoot your attack up to 524. After that, you pick a move, and fire away. Waterfall and Bullet Seed for STAB. I chose Bullet Seed over Seed Bomb so I could muscle past Sub users and break through Sturdy easier. The last move is up to preference. With Drain Punch, you get a semi-reliable recovery move, but get walled by opposing grass types and Altaria. Ice Punch is just the opposite, trading recovery for the ability to break through the Pokemon that wall this set