Project Uber

[Farewell]

Is Starmie good y'all?

I am thinking a Trick Version with Timid Specs. The advantage is that it is naturally fast and with Specs can be a threat. It out speeds Lati@s, and most Ubers barring Scarfers and Mewtwo/Darkrai/Deoxys. Plus, it works great with Kyogre support by countering some of the most common walls with Trick. With Rain+STAB+Specs + Hydro Pump, Starmie can do some pretty decent damage. Hydro Pump is necessary because once Starmie Tricks away its Specs it needs all the power it can get:

Starmie: @ Choice Specs
4HP, 252 SpA, 252 Spe
Timid
Trick
Hydro Pump
Ice Beam
Thunder


Life Orb isn't powerful enough when Timid and without having any boosting moves, plus this Starmie needs to do more than just deliver attacks, otherwise its outclassed by Lati@s, which is where Trick comes in (Lati@s need to hold onto their Soul Dew so they wont use Trick). It can Trick Blissey, Lugia, and even physical sweepers, giving them no benefit.

Natural Cure also allows for Starmie to come in on Status moves, or be inflicted by them later, and then switch out curing its Status. Don't forget that sometimes Trick can be used after removing your Specs, say you want to Trick away an opposing Lati@s' Soul Dew just to hamper their stability (giving them whatever you had), or want to take away a Pokemon's Light Clay, or whatever they are holding.


Also I was thinking about this Starmie:

Starmie: @ Light Clay
252 HP, 252 Spe, 4 SpD
Timid

Reflect
Light Screen
Recover / Ice Beam / Thunder
Surf


It is not as fast as Deoxys, but it can still recover, and outspeed many taunters. Additionally, even without SpA, Surf gets a boost in the Rain so Starmie should be able to deal decent damage to foes that don't pack high SpD or a resistance. Starmie's ability to provide support to a team shouldn't be underestimated for its lack of attacks, as Recover can be replaced by Ice beam or even Thunder.

 

[darkie]

This is a testing thread, not a theorymon thread. It is extremely obvious that the last few posters haven't tested the sets they've been posting (yet?). Stop doing that.

 

[1059860]

hhjj, you mean Light Screen on Starmie's 2nd moveset.

 

[Farewell]

k fixed it. Currently testing it:

Starmie: @ Light Clay
252 HP, 252 Spe, 4 SpD
Timid

Reflect
Light Screen
Recover / Ice Beam / Thunder
Surf


It is not as fast as Deoxys, but it can still recover, and outspeed many taunters. Additionally, even without SpA, Surf gets a boost in the Rain so Starmie should be able to deal decent damage to foes that don't pack high SpD or a resistance. Starmie's ability to provide support to a team shouldn't be underestimated for its lack of attacks, as Recover can be replaced by Ice beam or even Thunder.

 

[Matthew]

I added in a Choice Band Weavile into the effective sets, I've seen and used it, works fairly well. I posted the set I used, but if there is a better one please tell me.

 

[ultimifier]

why use starmie over mewtwo. mewtwo is faster, has better special attack, and better defences. he also has taunt and self destruct, moves that go well on DS pokemon. now hhjj, can you honestly stop posting stupid sets in this thread. seriously. this thread is for testing pokemon that you are trying to work in the uber metagame, not for testing pokemon that are COMPLETELY outclassed by existing uber pokemon.

thank you

 

[MegaKick]

I've been using this gengar set to great use in Ubers, its fun to use and effective:

Gengar @ Focus Sash
Timid; 252 speed-252 sp.att-4 hp

Counter
Destiny Bond
Explosion/Focus Blast
Shadow Ball


It usually gets two kills per game, it can counter one opponet and d-bong another. U can use explosion so opponets won't setup on you during your d-bonding. It can be the ultimate swords dance rayquaza counter and lucario counter, even without using counter, it can easily revenge weakned ones with it's immunity to e-speed

 

[1059860]

Why not put the 4 extra EV in Attack if you have Explosion?

 

[Thorns]

that gengar is fucking useless - run explosion and scizor swords dances up and rapes you, run focus blast and anything else can waste your
pp by switching around

 

[Scoopapa]

An option to one of the sets up there...

Ninjask @ Focus Sash
Jolly Nature
176 HP / 252 Atk / 80 Spe
- Swords Dance
- Protect
- X-Scissor
- Baton Pass

I've found that giving an attack to Ninjask is quite helpful against leads like Darkrai and Deoxys. Preference is given to sash without leftovers, as without sub they are basically useless. You lose status immunity, but not much is going to try to status a ninjask. X-Scissor hits tons of ubers super effectively, so if ninjask manages to keep his sash, you can get a revenge kill and be ready to pass a boost next turn.

This ninjask doesn't pass as well as a substitute one, but it still passes quite well while gaining the ability to hurt a lot of ubers. It sounds bad on paper, but I've been using it very successfully.

 

[MegaKick]

that gengar is fucking useless - run explosion and scizor swords dances up and rapes you, run focus blast and anything else can waste your
pp by switching around

who runs swords dance scizor in ubers?
and the point is that you use him to stop a sweep by something like swords dance scizor with counter-don't use him until something like that is sweeping

and to clarify, I don't think I should test that set, even though I've been running it for a while, as i'm new to competitive battling. I thought I would post it so someone else could test it

 

[locopoke]

@ Leftovers / Focus Sash
Jolly Nature
176 HP / 252 Atk / 80 Spe
- Swords Dance
- Protect
- Substitute
- Baton Pass​

Why does it have 252 Attack EVs when it doesn't use any Attacking Moves? Just something I noticed.​

 

[Darkmalice]

Gengar @ Focus Sash
Timid; 252 speed-252 sp.att-4 hp

Counter
Destiny Bond
Explosion/Focus Blast
Shadow Ball


It usually gets two kills per game, it can counter one opponet and d-bong another. U can use explosion so opponets won't setup on you during your d-bonding. It can be the ultimate swords dance rayquaza counter and lucario counter, even without using counter, it can easily revenge weakned ones with it's immunity to e-speed

Stealth Rock deems Focus Sash useless, and ruins the purpose of this set. So this will have to be used as a lead.

If you use it as a lead to have your Focus Sash intact, Darkrai beats this easily with Dark Void. Deoxys-S is a gamble. Chances are it will Taunt you, meaning it will only use SR or Shadow Ball (you will always 2HKO thanks to Deoxys-S' Focus Sash). If it doesn't Taunt you, Gengar will fail. Most leads, and Uber pokemon in general, don't have physical attacks. The most common lead with physical attacks is Groudon, who will just Thunderwave you, and set up SR, whilst Gengar does pitiful damage with Shadow Ball. Even if you land a counter (do it on the third turn), a paralysed Gengar is near useless. This combined with the SR in play would mean the Groudon player is at an advantage.

Explosion is too weak on a pokemon with 65 base Atk, especially without an item Boost. It won't even OHKO Kyogre. To do this, you need at least 160 Atk EVs, which is of course, taken from SpA.


If you're using Explosion, this Gengar should be Hasty with 4 Atk EVs.

Ninjask @ Focus Sash
Jolly Nature
176 HP / 252 Atk / 80 Spe
- Swords Dance
- Protect
- X-Scissor
- Baton Pass

I've found that giving an attack to Ninjask is quite helpful against leads like Darkrai and Deoxys. Preference is given to sash without leftovers, as without sub they are basically useless. You lose status immunity, but not much is going to try to status a ninjask. X-Scissor hits tons of ubers super effectively, so if ninjask manages to keep his sash, you can get a revenge kill and be ready to pass a boost next turn.

This ninjask doesn't pass as well as a substitute one, but it still passes quite well while gaining the ability to hurt a lot of ubers. It sounds bad on paper, but I've been using it very successfully.

I would recommend this Ninjask in place of the current one:
Nature: Jolly
Item: Leftovers
X-Scissor / Swords Dance
Protect / Swords Dance
Substitute
Baton Pass
248 HP / 36 Atk / 208 Def / 16 Speed

The EVs and Jolly nature reach 396 Speed, outrunning Mewtwo and gaining a bonus point. It can Protect against faster foes like Deoxys-E and Scarf holders first turn, and then outspeed everything. Use Protect and Substitute consecutively to get the desired number of Speed boosts. X-Scissor is mainly for Deoxys-S, meaning you will not be screwed over by Taunt, and Deoxys-S would be a fool to even attempt it. X-Scissor is also great against Mewtwo and Mew, who may also carry Taunt. Swords Dance should not be used on a lead set for all these reasons. It can, however, be used over X-Scissor and Protect if Ninjask is not a lead, but make sure he has Rapid Spin support when doing so (obviously). There is little benefit in Atk EVs, for Ninjask will never be a sweeper, and his main purpose is to pass Speed boosts to the team. 36 Atk is enough to 2HKO Deoxys-S, Darkrai, and 40 HP EVs Mewtwo. The HP and Def EVs cushion the blows from Rayquaza's Extremespeed and Scizor's Bullet Punch; the former, when boosted by a Life Orb, a Dragon Dance, and an Adamant nature, will only OHKO 2.56% of the time.

 

[MegaKick]

Stealth Rock deems Focus Sash useless, and ruins the purpose of this set. So this will have to be used as a lead.

If you use it as a lead to have your Focus Sash intact, Darkrai beats this easily with Dark Void. Deoxys-S is a gamble. Chances are it will Taunt you, meaning it will only use SR or Shadow Ball (you will always 2HKO thanks to Deoxys-S' Focus Sash). If it doesn't Taunt you, Gengar will fail. Most leads, and Uber pokemon in general, don't have physical attacks. The most common lead with physical attacks is Groudon, who will just Thunderwave you, and set up SR, whilst Gengar does pitiful damage with Shadow Ball. Even if you land a counter (do it on the third turn), a paralysed Gengar is near useless. This combined with the SR in play would mean the Groudon player is at an advantage.

Explosion is too weak on a pokemon with 65 base Atk, especially without an item Boost. It won't even OHKO Kyogre. To do this, you need at least 160 Atk EVs, which is of course, taken from SpA.


If you're using Explosion, this Gengar should be Hasty with 4 Atk EVs.

Or you can just have spin support, and it stops ray and the ever growing lucario

 

[Misa]

I can't even find time to set Kingdra up.

Kingdra really doesn't need his time to set up, providing that you have a Kyogre in tow. He outspeeds pretty much (except Choice Scarfers) everything in the rain, so you can go with something like a Life Orbed mixed sweeper and sweep things with it.

Also, I've noticed that Lucario can't switch into shit anything other than Ice Beams, and since Lucario isn't really swift at all, it's kinda hard for him to SD up and sweep imo.

 

[Scoopapa]

Darknessmalice, there is really no point in putting HP ev's in if it has a sash. You can reach higher speed and better attack with 252 / 252 adamant.

 

[Darkartisan]

Is it alright if I post ubers that make effective leads? I found something that was quite interesting the other day in ubers, I played 10 games and every darkrai lead fell to this one:

@ Lum Berry
Timid Nature
252 Spe/252 SpA/6 Hp
-Dark Void
-Focus Blast
-Ice Beam
-Shadow Ball

This Darkrai lead was intended to be used to beat all other Darkrai leads, especially Dark void ones (most of them are). Let them sleep you, Lum berry cures it, and you can either Shadow ball them to death, or Dark Void them and effectively cripple them. I love this set

 

[noob3]

Yes, let's shadow ball Darkrai leads to death with Darkrai!

Sarcasm aside, this thread is to discuss non-uber uber competitors.

 

[supermarth64]

Under the area where you post the movesets/EVs/other stuff, would it be possible to add in the name of the set that it's featuring?

 

[thechocolatebunny]

224 hp 252 atk 8 spD 24 spe
adamant
Life Orb
-sacred fire
-Earthquake
-roost
-Return/punishment/substitute

Use with groudon and a spinner and it is extremely effective. Also enjoys paralysis support but is bulky enough to go without it. Takes hits well and hits hard. 2hkos max hp max def bold lugia with sun boosted Life Orb sacred fire while 399 spA Life Orb spacial rend from palkia 3hkos

224 hp is a SR/LO number, 24 spe outpaces adamant ttar, 252 atk is obvious, rest in spD.

 

[Bakachild]

@ Choice Band / Focus Sash
Jolly
EV: 252 Atk / 6 Def / 252 Speed

X-Scissor
U-Turn
Aerial Ace
Toxic

This thing is for the lead slot. It can generally outspeed common lead today and look to threaten them not named Deoxys-S which normally run . The leads on uber are usually weak to bug moves. e.g Darkrai and Deoxys-A. U-Turn usually scouts for you for incoming steel types and go to an appropriate pokemon. U-Turn also takes huge chunks of Kyogre leads before damaging you. (CB version for huge chunks) Focus Sash is there if you really want to destroy Deoxys-S. Toxic is there to make up for lack of coverage and damage some major walls (e.g Giratina, Lugia, etc.) Aerial Ace is another stab option and filler.

 

[locopoke]

I don't think Choice Banded Ninjask is too great in Ubers. I mean, it can easily kill off Psychic types which is great, but outside of that, other Pokemon surpass him. Aerial Ace hit's literally nothing in Ubers, and Toxic is meh. U-Turn is great for scouting, along with Ninjask's amazing speed and his ability, but Scizor pulls it off much better.

 

[Thorns]

if I'm going to use a terrible pokemon like forretress just to use a fucking bird with horrible neutral coverage or a fucking gengar then I can just wait for rayquaza to sweep my team

point is, don't post gimmicks, and test the set!

 

[Misa]

224 hp 252 atk 8 spD 24 spe
adamant
Life Orb
-sacred fire
-Earthquake
-roost
-Return/punishment/substitute

Use with groudon and a spinner and it is extremely effective. Also enjoys paralysis support but is bulky enough to go without it. Takes hits well and hits hard. 2hkos max hp max def bold lugia with sun boosted Life Orb sacred fire while 399 spA Life Orb spacial rend from palkia 3hkos

224 hp is a SR/LO number, 24 spe outpaces adamant ttar, 252 atk is obvious, rest in spD.

I thought there was a set like this in the current Ho-oh analysis? Also, I'm hesitant about trying this set especially since Ho-oh might take 50% damage from switching in, and Life Orb adds even more damage upon attacking.

 

[Darkmalice]

Darknessmalice, there is really no point in putting HP ev's in if it has a sash. You can reach higher speed and better attack with 252 / 252 adamant.

My Ninjask has Leftovers, not Focus Sash.

What is the point of Focus Sash when after a Protect, it outspeeds everything? I can just spam Protect and Substitute to get the desired number of speed boosts, and then Baton Pass out. Leftovers means for every Protect and Sub combo, I only lose 12.5% HP. Ninjask will last far longer with Leftovers.

Focus Sash is useless with Substitute. And without Substitute, you can only take one hit, earning three speed boosts max, and with the Ninjask only being used once. If you are forced out, and are forced to come back in on SR, Leftovers will help Ninjask survive longer and produce Speed Boosts, whilst Focus Sash will be useless (again). But with Protect and Substitute, and perhaps just Substitute if he isn't a lead, he can take far more hits than if he had a Focus Sash and no Substitute. Also, Substitute helps in case a priority user switches in. It's better to lose 25% HP, excluding Leftovers recovery, than a whole chunk of HP from Rayquaza's Extremespeed or Scizor's Bullet Punch.



As for CB Ninjask, you're better off using Scizor for that task. Scizor has higher Atk, and thanks to far superior typing and defenses, he can come in much more frequently. Your Ninjask dies to anything save Earthquake. If you want to beat Darkrai and Deoxys-S leads, use my Ninjask. Protect + Substitute renders Scarf Darkrai's Dark Void useless, and against Deoxys-S, just use X-Scissor. Thanks to Deoxys-S' Focus Sash, you're going to 2HKO with your Ninjask, just like with mine.