R.I.P. Leads and Scouting

I like this change. Personally, I think it ADDS strategy. There are plenty of pokemon that will be less effective because and there are plenty of pokemon that will be more effective because of this. I think people are too scared of change, the 4th gen metagame will always be there for you to play if you want, I say we try out a new game for Gen.5. Imagine if you went back in time a decade ago to a hardcore red/blue/yellow player and told him all the crap that would be in Gen.4. Compared to that, this is isn't as big of a deal as many are making it to be.
Precisely. ^_^

I think the change is just freaking lots of people out.
 

skarm

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Bleh I cannot even get through to test again with Huy at the moment because Wifi is sending out every error code in the book when we attempt to battle. We'll try again in a bit.
 
No it really ISN'T.

YOU PEOPLE HAVE TO UNDERSTAND...this isn't gonna let our opponents predict who we'll switch into. Like for example, we send out a Dragonite, the opponent sends out an ice type...now they know we're gonna switch (or they think we will) and they think we might switch to Metagross who resists Ice. So they ready their HP fire only to find out Dnite didn't switch and instead used Ddance and is now ready to sweep. We still have to predict except we can now predict more accurately which in turn means our opponent has to predict when you predict they will predict a switch or attack UG ITS SO CONFUSING!
I find it amusing you're so invested in this. You've posted practically none stop. May I ask why?

Also you're not convincing anyone with your argument. That whole example you just listed? That still happens now just instead of knowing they have a Metagross you assume they do (or something similar).

Anyway, you're free to look forward to this, but I know I won't be.
 
more mindgames, less prediction, and less guessing is what it sounds like to me.

And that indeed sounds boring. Especially against weaker players.
 
There isn't. I've already tried. I read Japanese pretty well and if I'm missing something it's damn well-hidden. I've been looking desperately every time I get on Wi-Fi.
Well... this sucks.
Who knows, though, they could give us an option to turn it off in Gray/Chrome/Whatever, right? Right...? I guess I'll have to adapt to this until then.

Thanks for the testing, by the way.
 
Imo, this is a ridiculously dumb change that's not needed at all. As people have said before me, all it causes is mindgames.
 
Like, I don't think I can emphasize how good this is for the VGC meta. Check out this battle video for an example. My opponent is basically screwed right out of the gate because my lead pair completely dominates his, and since there are only 4 Pokemon per team he's way behind right off the bat. No matter how skilled he may be that's a huge deficit to climb out of, and the match rests almost entirely on the match-up rather than any inherent skill or prediction. Being able to see my team roster beforehand could have allowed him to use his 2 Pokemon on the bench to prevent being smacked down so hard on the very first turn.
 
I don't like this, because it makes a lot of my favourite new pokemon suddenly less useful (zoroark, kojondo, etc) since zoroark is meant to be a surprise and kojondo would have been a brilliant scout.
 
some pokes will still have counters, but they wont be much of a counter if you already know it's there. Makes playing around things like that much easier, which takes the fun out of alot of the play.

That also means you wont have to predict that they have a counter, regardless of their moveset. The moveset portion has never been complicated, especially when you understand what's common and not.
 
This is a combination of awesome and unfortunate. On the one hand, we now have an even deeper layer of prediction required. You have to be ready for when the counters come at all times, and know what and what they don't have a counter too.

On the other hand, this will totally rip into "predictable" Pokemon. A Swampert will be a Swampert will be a Swampert, causing a higher amount of preparation than before. This is most likely going to end up as a cycle of increasing unpredictability to prevent predictability.

Also, it's a good day to be Zekrom.
 
A big change for sure. I'm not really sure what to think about it. Right now I don't feel like I would like it, but I'll have to try before I decide on anything. Even it's a "bad" change, I'll accept, adapt and get over it. Or stick with playing DPPt :D
 
This also means that the more experienced the player is the better of a chance he/she has to deal with whatever is coming.

As said before, less prediction (because sets will still be just as common as usual), less guessing (because you'll already know what to expect even if movesets are still hidden, which doesn't change much since the same thing can apply when a pokemon is hidden anyway), and more mindgames(because the opponent already knows your pokes, you'll have to outplay them in order to win).
 
To me "prediction" is just what you call guessing when you were lucky and guessed correctly. There's still tons of guess work involved with this like I pointed out in my Gyarados/Electivire scenario before.

Let's take this example:

I have an Electivire out, it knows Wild Volt and Earthquake.

Opponent sends out Gyarados. I know he also has an electivire.

Do I attack with Earthquake or Wild Volt? I have to guess what he would do. It's a blind guess still. If I EQ he could stay in and set up on me. If I Wild Volt he could switch and have a free speed boost. I could switch out and he could set up or I could switch out and he could switch out. This does not sound like a fun scenario to me in the least bit.

It's just needless mind games when before I could make a freaking decision and deal with it. If I powered up my opponents Vire and he swept me because I didn't expect it, I can deal with that. If I get swept because I chose the wrong multiple choice option I'd be much much more upset.
 
I am in LOVE with this change. If my memory serves me correctly, NetBattle (Who remembers that anymore?) had a feature that allowed you, if you wanted, to show your pokemon to your opponent before the battle. My friends at the time absolutely enjoyed this feature during the ADV generation.

This is very similar to the concept of rematches. During the ADV generation (see a trend), rematches were my favorite kind of matches, ESPECIALLY during major tournaments versus top players. Knowing your opponent's team and pokemon, and vice-versa, allows for a COMPLETELY different playstyle. It is difficult to actually describe without thoroughly expereiencing it. Theorymoning and having only an "idea" of how it impacts battling is NEVER the same as having actually been through for nearly an entire generation.

I personally was not a fan of the DPPT metagame. Ive stopped playing since Platinum emerged. However I am ecstatic about this new change and I am going to have fun relearning what Pokemon battling is all about.

tl;dr - Do NOT bash this AT ALL if you've never experienced top competitive battling with this feature. As someone who HAS, I ABSOLUTELY APPROVE. ^^
 
I hate this. It invalidates a lot of core pokemon concepts; I can't hide my sweeper until the endgame, and I know exactly what to sacrifice, always. This removes a considerable layer of the skill in pokemon.
I have mixed feelings about this. Part of a gimmick team, something I like to run on occasion, relies on the element of surprise. Now gimmick Pokémon themselves will no longer exist.
It kinda makes a Pokemon's immunities useless if your opponent knows beforehand not to use Earthquake until your Gengar is out of the picture. I really hope this isn't true.
This, this, and that.

Not to mention any gimmicky mono-type teams are nowhere near as fun to use anymore. With my mono-bug team I would lead with Scizor and usually switch to something like Forretress to set up Stealth Rock and/or Rapid Spin. It usually wasn't until my 3rd or even 4th Bug that people would realize it was mono-bug.

Hopefully the competitive community won't adopt this.


Also, what is with all the people suggesting that this benefits the more experienced, skilled player? There was quite a bit of skill required in doing things like scouting, being careful to not send out a Pokemon that will allow your opponent to set up on it and sweep, avoiding things like Flash Fire and Motor Drive, hiding certain Pokemon of your own, etc.
 

TheMaskedNitpicker

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All of you people who think this is going to ruin the game need to try it before you make a judgment. Your doom and gloom is completely unwarranted. As someone who's played for years using this rule, I can tell you that it does promote prediction and skill.

@Bombkirby: I didn't realize my tone was negative; I thought I made it clear in my post that I'm in favor of this change in a big way. But I suppose the R.I.P. in the title has a little bit of a negative connotation. Sorry about that! I just wanted a short, catchy title that would convey the content of the thread and make people take notice.
 
This also means that the more experienced the player is the better of a chance he/she has to deal with whatever is coming.

As said before, less prediction (because sets will still be just as common as usual), less guessing (because you'll already know what to expect even if movesets are still hidden, which doesn't change the same thing one a pokemon is hidden anyway), and more mindgames(because the opponent already knows your pokes, you'll have to outplay them in order to win).
I'm not sure you know what prediction means.
 
I can see the skill coming out of picking apart someone's revealed team and anticipating their strategy... I'm going to miss the surprise element, though.

Seeing as there are many, many pokemon now, there's also many, many possibilities as to what the other side can throw at you. If the teams are shown, then the massive pool to guess from shrinks from 649 to 6...

Although, wouldn't this lead to the idea of having more pokemon on your team that could potentially lead, since you're allowed to choose now? (I've got zero experience with the metagame so far so some of these assumptions might not be accurate...)
 
Pokemon battle revolution reveals entire teams at hand, and people still used specific lead; not to mention teams will need SR regardless...
 

TheMaskedNitpicker

Triple Threat
is a Researcher Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus
I am in LOVE with this change. If my memory serves me correctly, NetBattle (Who remembers that anymore?) had a feature that allowed you, if you wanted, to show your pokemon to your opponent before the battle. My friends at the time absolutely enjoyed this feature during the ADV generation.

This is very similar to the concept of rematches. During the ADV generation (see a trend), rematches were my favorite kind of matches, ESPECIALLY during major tournaments versus top players. Knowing your opponent's team and pokemon, and vice-versa, allows for a COMPLETELY different playstyle. It is difficult to actually describe without thoroughly expereiencing it. Theorymoning and having only an "idea" of how it impacts battling is NEVER the same as having actually been through for nearly an entire generation.

I personally was not a fan of the DPPT metagame. Ive stopped playing since Platinum emerged. However I am ecstatic about this new change and I am going to have fun relearning what Pokemon battling is all about.

tl;dr - Do NOT bash this AT ALL if you've never experienced top competitive battling with this feature. As someone who HAS, I ABSOLUTELY APPROVE. ^^
Wow, I could not have said this better myself, so I'm glad you posted it. Five stars!

Pokemon battle revolution reveals entire teas at hand, and bad, predictable players that usually lost still ued specific lead; not to mention teams will need SR regardless...
Fixed that for you.
 
Thinking more on this I would like this feature a lot more if you had say 12 or hell even a whole box of pokemon shown to your opponent and the both of you chose the 6 you wanted from that pool of 12 or more based on your opponents pool of 12 or more. That's how PBR works.
 
To me "prediction" is just what you call guessing when you were lucky and guessed correctly. There's still tons of guess work involved with this like I pointed out in my Gyarados/Electivire scenario before.

Let's take this example:

I have an Electivire out, it knows Wild Volt and Earthquake.

Opponent sends out Gyarados. I know he also has an electivire.

Do I attack with Earthquake or Wild Volt? I have to guess what he would do. It's a blind guess still. If I EQ he could stay in and set up on me. If I Wild Volt he could switch and have a free speed boost. I could switch out and he could set up or I could switch out and he could switch out. This does not sound like a fun scenario to me in the least bit.
Actually what you do depends on what sort of player you are. You could go for the apocalyptic 'all or nothing' roll of the dice you just described or you could choose something that would hit both pokemon for neutral damage (like ice punch). using the not expected attack is as much a mind game as showing the gyarados/electivire switch and if somehow you can manage a 2HKO with a neutral attack then that's as much a checkmate as Pursuit sometimes represents.
 

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