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Rating Basics

Discussion in 'Rating Activities' started by Jimbon, Dec 15, 2011.

  1. Furai

    Furai wellfare
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  2. Neliel

    Neliel Sacred Sword

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  3. Jimbon

    Jimbon fools and worthless liars
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    @ Neliel Tu Oderschvank: Hi there, glad to see you're back with another rate. You picked a very solid team to rate, so often with these types of teams moveset changes are just as important, if not moreso than Pokemon changes, especially considering this guy's team has very good synergy. I do agree with some of your suggestions, in particular the change of Starmie's EV spread especially as the OP didn't really specify what his current Starmie's EV spread was, and I think your set is much better in this scenario. I also think that your Heatran moveset change was also spot on, especially as CM Latias and Keldeo are much bigger threats to this guys team than opposing Heatran, who is handled a lot easier with Starmie after modifying it's EV spread to the one you listed. I'd also agree with the Rock Polish Landorus suggestion, as I always like to think a speed boosting mon / scarfer alongside a weather abuser is very effective, as you can still apply the offensive pressure you need while being supported by the strong defensive core this guy has consisting of Starmie / Heatran / Amoonguss / Hippowdon.

    There were also some things that I didn't fully agree with, but I can see why you have suggested them. The first thing I didn't fully agree with was the Physically Defensive Hippowdon change. This change because even less important when you even mentioned he changed his Starmie to a bulkier set to handle Lucario and Terrakion in the same rate. The change doesn't seem like the best fit given that neither Terrakion or Lucario can set up against anything, the only thing maybe is Starmie but Terrakion and Lucario won't be setting up against them anyway. I think for this guy's team, one of the matchups he does need to be very wary against is Sun, which is what Specially Defensive Hippowdon is great at doing because it fares against Ninetales better while also not fearing Dugtrio or Genesect when running a Specially Defensive set. Going fully physical means you lose the ability to combat Ninetales / fire types in general better, while also giving Genesect a crucial Special Attack boost upon switching in. It was a nice try, but not 100% needed for this team.

    Another thing I found myself torn upon was the Hidden Power [Ice] suggestion for Amoonguss. Although Hidden Power [Ice] allows Amoonguss to beat Dragons and Gliscor, he is still losing against them most of the time anyway when it comes down to Dragons vs Amoonguss. Given that he is running a Specially Defensive Amoonguss, it is not faring well against pretty much every Dragon. It's taking a massive amount from Salamence, Dragonite and Haxorus Outrages, while being taken down by a Latios Psyshock and used as setup fodder for Latias. Hidden Power [Ice] might be optimal for dealing with Dragons, but when he can't switch into any of them, it sparks a little redundancy. Honestly, the simplest way to help with that would be to try a Physically Defensive Amoonguss over his current set. It helps him check the aforementioned Dragons, taking less from Outrages and being able to Spore + heal up with Regenerator upon switching out. It also helps out greatly against stuff like SD Terrakion and Lucario, both of which you mentioned as threats earlier. It also provides him with the much needed physical wall, something that his team was seriously lacking. While Hippowdon also makes a fine choice for a physical wall, it further enhances his weakness to some of his worst matchups. Specially Defensive Hippowdon + Specially Defensive Heatran + Rock Polish Landorus is enough insurance against Sun anyway, whereas Physically Defensive Amoonguss patches up some of the holes that these three can't.

    I'd also like to mention your layout for a second. It's good that you have bolded your changes so that the OP can see what you have suggested, but it doesn't help that your changes are all clumped together. Look around the RMT forum and look at some other rates, and see how other people go about rating teams and how they present them. People will be much more likely to accept your changes should you lay it out well, as they can navigate your changes much more easily. Leaving a space or two in between each suggestion or even separating them into separate paragraphs makes it much easier to read, as the reader knows when a new change has been suggested as shown by each new paragraph. You may also want to include hide tags for sets and maybe even a tl;dr section, just a small suggestion though.

    Overall, you did a pretty good job. Small changes such as EV spreads are usually good as they have little drawbacks as a result of changing them, but when you completely modify a Specially Defensive Pokemon over to a Physically Defensive one, think about what you are changing, and if the impacts of that are beneficial. The same applies for Special Attackers to Physical and vice versa. Every change you make has some sort of counter effect on the team, and if that effect is particularly detrimental. However since your last time you posted here, it's obvious you're getting the hang of rating, which is good. If you keep rating enough, these things will happen without you even thinking about it and you'll be getting a lot better at rating in turn. Keep active and continue rating, good luck!
  4. Neliel

    Neliel Sacred Sword

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    Hey jimbon, thank you. As for the spread of starmie, i know i didnt explain why but thats just because i thought it was obvious. Honestly i thought about max def Amongus but then he would really miss the bulk to take strong water attacks under rain, as well as increasing his weakness to keldeo, i know that he has starmie but still something like Choice specs keldeo could do a lot of damage to starmie. Also if im not wrong specially defensive hippowdown still has more defense that special defense, so you need to drop some defense ivs to avoid the special attack boost on genesect. Anyway, Max defense Amonguuss still fails to do any serious damages against lucario and Terrakion under sand, you can at least paralize them but then you have to sac a pokemon anyway, and this is another reason why i tought that max defense hippowdown was better. Oh and i used a lot amonguus, and i still thinks that clear smog its not that usefull at all, i know amonguss takes a lot of damage from outrage but at least you can heavily damage some dragons if you have hp ice, and i think its something important here since dragons like DD salamence can be painfull. Also, since i suggested max defense hippo that takes way more damages from sheer force landorus, i thought it was something good to suggest. Ill change the layout anyway, i didnt even realised it was important, thank you for telling me that. Ill back with other rates soon, and thanks again for your feedback :x
  5. Yonko7

    Yonko7 Guns make you stupid. Duct tape makes you smart.
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  6. col49

    col49 unpolished
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    Hey, I'm a little new to the team-rating scene and all, but I'd like to get into it if that's ok :] Here's a rate to this team. Any advice would be super.
  7. Neliel

    Neliel Sacred Sword

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  8. ganj4lF

    ganj4lF Nobody is safe from the power of science!
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    I would be glad to hear some feedback on this rate I just posted. Thank you everyone.
  9. Yonko7

    Yonko7 Guns make you stupid. Duct tape makes you smart.
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    col49:

    Your rate is pretty good, in that you realize the team's momentum needs, and suggested not using Poliwrath. Also, you highlighted some threats especially a specific one, which persuades the OP to listen to you even more, rather than said "a Ground-type". The Uxie suggestion was a good one, because it did the same by setting up hazards, however I think you should have also mentioned that Spikes are easily spinned away, thus wasting three turns, whereas Stealth Rock only needed one.

    For Drapion, suggestion the new EV spread was a good idea, as the defensive set doesn't have that much defensive prowess, but you forgot (or didn't want to) to mention the change of item. Black Sludge is more fitting for a more defensive approach, but the now gung-ho EV spread needs Lum Berry or Life Orb. The Tangrowth part was a good idea, by saying that Knock Off wasn't really needed, and Hidden Power Fighting is certainly usable; however, I think you should have mentioned Hidden Power Fire to combat Ferroseed and Escavalier, as they commonly switch into Tangrowth. Additionally, Tangrowth does learn Focus Blast, so that would have been a better move than Hidden Power Fighting, even with the accuracy. Nice job mentioning the merits of Hidden Power Fighting, and by giving examples it shows why they should use it.

    For Entei, changing Iron Head was definitely needed, because it doesn't do anything besides hitting Regirock. Will-O-Wisp does work to hit physical Water-types, but most can't switch in easily sans Slowking, and s/he had Tangrowth to handle set-up Water-types anyway. Toxic would've been a better replacement to slowly cripple Entei switch-ins. Although, Will-O-Wisp is definitely viable to hit Qwilfish. ^_^

    Very good rate, keep it up~
  10. Dice

    Dice what's a god to a nonbeliever
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  11. PDC

    PDC don't you know my nigga bkc fucking kidnap kids?
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    Hello Bri :)

    You had a really good rate here! The EV changes were small but helpful and give a defensive team like this some great advantages. They were spot on and that part of the rate was pretty good. I liked the idea of using Latias to defeat Reuniclus, it was a pretty good idea as it fits the basic same role that Amoonguss did. Latias packs similar qualities in reliable recovery, similar resistances and weaknesses ( although Latias is Pursuit weak ) and overall was a pretty good suggestion. It was probably the best replacement here and fit the team well. Toxic was also a good suggestion so he doesn't have to worry about the constant threat of Roost Volcarona with no counter. Rain Dance was also an interesting choice on Tentacurel as it can nullify weather. Knock Off does have some solid utility though so this is probably more of a prefernece choice if anything, especially with the amount of Rain in the metagame. Good rate and I think your suggesting are spot on for a team like that. The format itself was also easy to read and was nice and orderly.
  12. Superpowerdude

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    @ Neliel Tu Oderschvank

    This rate was quite a good one so nice job! I don't really have anything to critique on what you DID do i just have a few suggestions which you can do in your rates. While your changes certainly did help the team become more efficent you could of potentially helped the teams creator even more. While nitpicks are always helpful for a team you could of also identified threats to emirinho's team and tried to come up with bigger solutions to help him against these threats. Although you did suggest Latios and Slowbro to help him against a few pokemon you didn't really go to indepth about these changes and you didn't explain why or if Thunderous-T and Rotom-W are actually threats to his team. I understand you didn't want to change to much in his team which is good i guess because at the end of the day you are helping someone with their team not rebuilding it. Fortunatly for all team raters the bw threatlist just got updated to include new threats and sets in the bw2 metagame. To help look for threats in a persons team i always make sure i use the threatlist to identify threats to a persons team, then i will try and find ways to help with these threats. After i have helped someones team handle certain threats better then i move on to the minor changes you were doing like small moveset tweaks, item tweaks and ev spread tweaks. On a more positive note all of your suggestions seemed good and you did a good job in explaning why your suggestions are being suggested. Although he didn't take some of your advice don't let it worry you if the teams creator doesn't agree with some of your changes you can always comment again and try to explain the change more in depth i defintatly agree with the Hidden Power [Ice]>Hidden Power [Fire] suggestion however emirinho seemed to have not really understood the change. He said he needs Hp Fire to check Scizor. So what i mean by commenting back on a rate to make your point more clear you could of said something like "Scizor isn't really to much of a problem because nonw of its moves can harm Thunderous-T or Volcarona seeing as they resist all of his moves except Pursuit which won't be doing much damage seeing as none of them would switch out on Scizor because of how much they can damage him." Genesect is also handeld by Volcarona to an extent so i honestly don't see hy he disliked that change. One more thing you can do although its more of an opptional thing is you can put your Tl;dr in a Hide Tag so it doesn't take to much space.

    Tl;dr
    Show Hide
    Show Hide


    Your rates are definatly improving and you explained to emirinho about the importance of your suggestions. Remember to use the threatlist to find threats to the team and then help the team builder with the threat(s) Also feel free to put your Tl;dr section in a Hide Tag and comment back on a thread to clarify your suggestions to people with doubts, although these two things are really opptional. Anyway great job your improving!
  13. Gimmick

    Gimmick Electric potential

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  14. afterburn

    afterburn Villain of some untold story
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    ^ Just a nitpick, but try to synthesize your rates up a bit, because if you keep typing up long rates like that you might burn yourself out. I noticed in those rates that you have these starting paragraphs which compliment the team, which is nice, but not necessary. Just get into it by outlining the issues -> explaining your solutions and that's it. Don't put all that extra fluff in there, like in ppuff stall you say "xatu has a x4 resist to fighting", its assumed the OP knows all that stuff, so just stick to the important details of the issues and your solutions.

    Take it easy on yourself, and try to keep it short and sweet (though understandably, there are a few teams with a lot of issues which need longer rates). Haven't played much bw2, so can't really say much about content xP
  15. Yonko7

    Yonko7 Guns make you stupid. Duct tape makes you smart.
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    ganj4iF:

    I'm not very experienced in OU right now, so I can't give advice on the content, but I can help with everything else. I understand that changing Sawsbuck was needed to make the team more efficient, but the whole team was built around Sawsbuck, so changing it defeats the team's purpose. Although, kudos, because you did mention the merit of changing Sawsbuck, and you also understood that changing Sawsbuck was hard.

    The change of Cresselia I think was not the best, as Sun teams want to apply pressure as soon as possible, and not let the opposing team set up. If a change was needed, then Latias could have been an understandable suggestion, rather than Cresselia. Latias is applies more offensive pressure, while also acting as a panic button of sorts. Latias can also set up Reflect and has Recover. On the other hand, Cresselia slows the momentum tremendously and then something can set up. The rest of the team applies offensive pressure, so Cresselia is a bit of an outlier.

    You did an excellent job at pointing out the weaknesses and why. You also explain your solutions and how they are better than the original Pokemon.

    Great rate~
  16. Sciztar

    Sciztar

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  17. TGMD

    TGMD +Biosci: you both gave me crabs
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    @ Sciztar: First of all, when rating a team, you really need to explain your suggestions, it may be apparent to you why you're suggesting something, but it may not be apparent to the owner of the rmt. You must have had reasons for making your suggestion, so why not put it down on paper so they know why they're making this change? If they don't see any reason to make the change, then why change it? They won't feel compelled to make a change if they have no idea why that change is neccessary in the first place, they may just see it as making a change just to change something, and if something isn't broke, then why fix it? You want to persuade them to take your suggestion, they need to know why this suggestion will improve the team, and how it will improve the team. This can be explained in a few short sentences, and it will increase the quality of your rates greatly.

    There are multiple examples of this happening throughout the rate, first of which being the change in Ninetales' EV spread, when suggesting the change, you just said: "But if you choose he or she to be your lead you're going to need to modify the EVs." There was no reasoning behind changing the EVs, no reasons those EVs were better, no reasons why those EVs would help, you absolutely must explain the reasoning behind your rates if you want to make good, quality rates. In the next paragraph, it started off great, you explained exactly why Scizor should be gotten rid of in a few sentences. But then you suggested Reuniclus, and that was it, no explanation what so ever. Also, you suggested 96 HP / 160 Def on Reuniclus to survive +1 Dragonite's Outrage, but you survive +1 Dragonite's Outrage with 160 HP / 96 HP. This spread gives you much better overall bulk and allows Reuniclus to take special attacks much better, while acheiving the same goal with the EVs. It's very, very likely you just got it mixed up, but just be more careful next time, and double check your information before posting. In the next paragraph, your explanation for Choice Scarf Garchomp was good, you should definitely be more descriptive, but it's an improvement, so good job on that. But next time make sure you state what to replace for the pokemon you're suggesting, otherwise figuring out what to replace just makes more work for the owner of the rmt. This is never good because they may be less likely to take your suggestion if they can't work out what to replace, and if you're just going to randomly suggest a pokemon with no idea what it'll replace, then it's much less likely to actually fit in well with the synergy of the team than it is if you know the perfect thing for it to replace from the start. Figuring out what to replace only takes a little bit of time, and it makes it much more likely for the rmt creator to take your suggestion. In the final paragraph you made a good suggestion, but next time just spend a bit more time explaining why Focus Punch doesn't fit on that set very well, even if it may be obvious to you.

    Overall, you really need to focus on explaining your suggestions. Also, when you do explain something, it's often very short, add a few more reasons, and make sure your suggestion is as persuasive as possible. The next time you make a rate, keep these suggestions in mind, if you do, and you put in alot of effort, I'm sure your rate will turn out to be of very good quality. Keep checking back here with your rates to make sure you're on the right track, and you may eventually become a very good rater one day :)
  18. col49

    col49 unpolished
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    Okie, so I need to work on rating stuff still :<
    Thread | Rate

    Aside from being a little wordy in my explanations of changes and my transparent hatred of Electivire, I feel as though I made a few too many changes to the team :( I don't think it hugely compromises the playstyle of the team, and I feel they generally better the team, but it just seems like I'm altering the team a little more than a given player would like to change. Is that ok, or should I try to cut down on changes?
  19. Eranu

    Eranu

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    I've been rating for some time now and I tried to take your advise into my rates The Great Mighty Doom. Here is one of my recent rates, I appreciate every feedback:

    Rate | Team
  20. Reymedy

    Reymedy They live and die by my command.
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    Hi, I never wondered how my "rates" were since most of the time I just toss my thoughts to give some fresh ideas to the builder.
    But well, if I can find a way to improve these "rates" it would be really cool.
    (I never wrote them in order to be "judged" on them, they can seem a little botched at first glance, but I always try to say something relevant even if I don't always put images and fancy stuff).

    So here are two rates :

    Thread 1 : http://www.smogon.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3475435
    Rate 1 : http://www.smogon.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4488830&postcount=5

    Thread 2 : http://www.smogon.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3475391
    Rate 2 : http://www.smogon.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4487609&postcount=9

    Thank you!

    EDIT : I add this one I just made if possible, Thread 3 : http://www.smogon.com/forums/showthread.php?p=4494107#post4494107
    Rate 3 : http://www.smogon.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4494107&postcount=16
  21. Dice

    Dice what's a god to a nonbeliever
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  22. The Unlucky one

    The Unlucky one

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  23. Jimbon

    Jimbon fools and worthless liars
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    @ col49: Unfortunately I don't know your metagame, but you asked a question so I'll try to help. If you're asking for changes within a team, personally I like to keep it at a 2 Pokemon change maximum, but I know other Team Raters use 3 as a maximum. Honestly, if your changes are backed up by a good reasoning, then there isn't any reason why you shouldn't make these changes, but you should be trying to retain the same goal of the team. One thing to remember though is that you shouldn't be perfecting the team, just making it function better. If the team is based around a Nidoqueen or whatever, then don't replace Nidoqueen. Find a way to make the team work better while still using Nidoqueen.

    As for your query on the quality of your rate, I don't really think there's such thing as a bad rate if you clearly back up your changes. Just be sure to justify your changes, as you don't want to leave the OP of the team wondering why they need to make said change. I'm sorry if this wasn't helpful, but I really know nothing of RU, please keep rating though as your actual content seems very good!

    @ Eranu: This was a good team to rate, as it was pretty solid and not many changes had to be made. Despite this, I think your rate was very good and you made solid and valid suggestions to try and make it better. When I was reading through your rate and looking at it against the team, I found myself agreeing with quite a few of your suggestions, so good job on that. I think your Forretress over Ferrothorn suggestion is good as it definitely helps him out against Breloom and Terrakion whereas Ferrothorn doesn't, but if you really want Forretress to be beating either of these I'd recommend running a more Physically Defensive spread, especially since most of the things noted on his threatlist (Scizor, Terrakion, Breloom, Toxicroak) are physical attackers, and you have a much harder time beating these with a Specially Defensive set.

    The only thing I felt that was not right with this rate was the Toxic suggestion on Chansey. I think Thunder Wave does better against everything listed on his threatlist. It slows down Terrakion, Breloom, Scizor and Toxicroak who switch in making them much easier to wall, while Chansey can easily switch into Rotom-W and wall it while paralyzing something on the switch. This is much more important given that everything he listed he was weak to would rather take a Toxic than a Thunder Wave, as Toxic takes several turns to start racking up, and all of the aforementioned threats are rarely staying in for more than one or two turns. You also mention that Toxic helps against Celebi, which may be true is some cases where Celebi stays in, but it is likely it wont unless it Leech Seeds, in which case it still heals more than it loses. An alternative fix could've been to make Politoed Specially Defensive to combat Celebi easier, as you can freely spam Perish Song thanks to the SDef investment plus Chesto Berry, while the majority of Celebi are defensive anyway so you take even less from Giga Drain.

    Another thing I liked about your rate was your final suggestion. You made this change as a result of your other changes, which is very good as if you make changes to a team, this can often open up some other weaknesses, which you correctly addressed well. Overall, it was a solid rate, but I would recommend that you split up your suggestions into paragraphs. It lets the OP know when something new is being suggested, as well as making it much easier to read rather than a wall of text. Just a preference rather than anything, but I find it's just a lot easier for the OP. Please take these comments on board, good luck rating!

    @ Remedy: Alright, I'm going to look over your three rates in a row, to see if I can try to help you out at all. In your first rate, you picked a pretty good team to rate, so it is interesting to see what your suggestions were. I think you did a good job analysing the weakness to CM Jirachi, but your actual suggestion to deal with it wasn't that reliable. CM Jirachi outspeed Gliscor regardless of how much Speed Gliscor is running, and it isn't a reliable answer to CM Jirachi if it is running Water Pulse / Psychic / Flash Cannon or any other common coverage move run on Jirachi. If you identify a weakness, then you should try to fix it, another change could be to try Roar on Heatran, or even make it Specially Defensive. It was good to see that you did identify other problems that Gliscor fixed, such as CB Tar which otherwise causes him some problems.

    Moving onto your second rate, I really didn't think this rate was that good. The main thing I saw was that you came across as quite rude, calling his whole team "weak" and saying his actual RMT was "ugly to read". I think if someone said that about my team, I'd completely disregard what you are going to suggest. You are trying to help make their team better, not insult it, just something to remember. For the actual content of the rate, there were also some things I disagreed with. While you may have tried to make his team function better, it seems as if you tried to perfect his team or at least make it better to your liking. You changed half of his team members, completely changing the way he plays. The way you presented it too was annoying to read too, as you don't need to put everything in hide tags, as well as making one line paragraphs. Try to work with what you have, and don't immediately think about replacing 3 or 4 team members when there are changes that can be made without having to replace anything.

    Finally, your third rate. This was much better than your second rate, and your suggestions were a lot better. I'd agree that either of Starmie / Mamoswine would work, but I also think that you have to consider what a Pokemon does for the team before you go about replacing it. When you said that Cresselia / Hitmontop are not good for this team, you have to think to yourself "what are these Pokemon doing for the team?", before making such a decision. I'd agree that maybe Hitmontop is not the best Pokemon for this team, but Cresselia is imo. It is his main answer for Dragons, and if he replaces it for Starmie or Mamoswine then he loses a Pokemon every time Salamence or Dragonite switches in. While Starmie / Mamoswine can revenge these Dragons, he still has to sack a Pokemon every time. The support Cresselia provides for this team is too good to give up, as it removes Dragons for Venusaur to sweep.

    On your third rate, I also found myself questioning what you've said a couple times, namely the part when you say his team lacks any offensive presence. The team already has offensive Ninetales, Scarf Garchomp and Venusaur, which in itself is already enough in terms of an offensive backbone, especially with the support his team has it's very easy to sweep. Also when you say his core is weak, you really lack any further explanation as to why it is weak, which seems to be a common pattern among your rates. If you want someone to take your changes, please say why as someone will ignore them. But yeah, I think your format could do with a little fine tuning, mainly not throwing every single thing that you think is threatening into a hide tag. You also might want to cut down on making one line paragraphs so often, as it's just choppy and lacks depth. I think your main problem however is that you're coming off blunt and acting as if the OP has done something wrong for making a team with considerable weaknesses. Try to help them without coming off as mean and I can promise you your rates will be much more appreciated.

    I didn't look @ Bri's or The Unlucky one's rates, so I'll get round to that at some point.
  24. Neliel

    Neliel Sacred Sword

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  25. TrollFreak

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